Can FFXIV Survive Its Player Base?

Two forum mainstays, the White Knight and the Troll, discuss the state of Final Fantasy XIV in this editorial.

The White Knight - A self-appointed hero who tirelessly defends those in need. The slings and arrows of outrageous customer dissatisfaction shall not scar Square Enix while this stalwart figure is there to defend their actions.

The Troll - Enemy to all but himself, the contrarian Troll knows his opinion is all that matters. No point of view goes undulled by his grinding criticism while he is around.

Today, these two icons debate whether Final Fantasy XIV can survive -- in the face of its own players.

Where do you stand?  Discuss in the ZAM Forums!

Disclaimer: This is a point-counterpoint editorial meant to open a discussion and not necessarily promote either view expressed by the characters within.  Also, I realize it's an Ogre.  FFXIV has no Trolls!

Final Fantasy XIV has had it rougher than almost any other title that came before it. It not only had the prestige of the Final Fantasy series to live up to, but eight years of Square Enix's previous MMO, Final Fantasy XI, to answer for. Players disenchanted by a perceived lack of communication or alleged bias towards Japanese players swore up and down that they would not be fooled by Square Enix again.

By releasing a new MMO, Square Enix essentially put their future in the hands of the players. As with FFXI, it would be a hard sell getting people to make the shift from single-player to an online world. They needed their existing players to vouch for them, but instead, the players lashed out.

After eight years of this imagined persecution at the hands of Square Enix, it was like a powder keg just waiting to burst. People immediately took to Amazon.com to rate down FFXIV, and gaming journalists seemed to take extra delight in highlighting each and every little flaw. In Japan, there were doctored photos depicting FFXIV's funeral, and constant charts of the declining playerbase made public to all. The supposed fanbase essentially killed the title before it could get off the ground.

Even despite the development team changes and free months, the harassment continues. FFXIV is now receiving "awards" like Most Disappointing Title. What's worse -- it has the most votes by far, but I would be surprised if even half of those people played past the beta.

When FFXI was released, it was completely different from the game we know today. It was even completely different from what North American players got in 2004. Why wasn't FFXIV afforded the same luxury of time to build up a solid MMO experience? Complaints abound that the developers didn't listen to the concerns of the players, but as Hiromichi Tanaka stated, they were focused on improving the core game before release and would tackle player concerns afterwards, you know, let the MMO evolve along with who players enjoy it.

Granted, there were issues with the game, such as the UI, but to say the game was "unplayable" is a complete exaggeration. Even FFXI continues to evolve to this day. But will FFXIV have that chance? It's hard to say. The players wanted it their way and they wanted it immediately. Now we all suffer the consequences with a game that may remain a shell of what it could have become.

With a new development team at the helm, it's time for people to move aside and let them work their magic. The game is free to play for the time being, so players have no right to complain. Updates are rolling in and Square Enix needs time to create the magical world they had planned for us from the start.

Hold on a second, you cannot simply place the blame on the players alone. The fact of the matter is FFXIV was released in a completely unplayable state. The players were on board from the very beginning trying to improve it -- to no avail. What happened to building the game with the players? From the alpha to the beta to the final version, it seemed the only major change was the snail's pace battle system. Even then, the developers shrugged it off as something they planned to change anyway.

And why shouldn't Square Enix account for the way they handled FFXI? If I'm going to jump into their new MMO, their track record with such titles is very important. All we saw before was "same old, same old" from the development team. If anything, FFXIV will be granted new life through our response to the game.

You don't have to go to the movies and buy a ticket to know a film is garbage. Square Enix took a gamble by rushing FFXIV out to beta other upcoming MMOs. They flubbed it, and now have to live with the image they have created for themselves. We can't even ride Chocobo or cruise on an airship; this is Final Fantasy?

Players shouldn't have to pay for an incomplete experience; that's what a beta is for. And to compare this MMO with FFXI -- that game was also made almost 10 years ago. Shouldn't a decade of experience have translated to a much better title? Even with the free months, FFXIV was not a game worth paying for at the time of release. I'm still not sure if it is now.

Yes, we have free months to enjoy, which means now is the time to complain more than ever. We were promised a hand in the creation of this game, but in the end, it was slapped away. Now that we broke their piggy bank, we finally have the attention of Square Enix. The game will be free until it's in a playable state, which means the feedback of the players will save this title.

The players may have exhibited some "tough love" during the release of FFXIV, but those tactics got us a new development team and a new direction for the game. It's time to steer this turd towards brighter horizons. We'll see how that turns out.

Comments

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State of the Game
# Jan 26 2011 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
10 posts
I personally have not played FFXIV as i am patiently awaiting the release for PS3. But from what i have read and heard, people are jumping on the "SE suxx" band wagon a little fast. Everyone seems to think WoW is some sort of miracle MMO but in fact it caters to emerging MMO fans who cannot figure out how to play an actual game. When you can get from level 1-80 in a weekend the game is broken and that is personally why i quit and will never play again.

I played FFXI for around 6 years, and personally it was one of the best games i ever played. You couldn't really get from 1-75 inside of 1-2 months even if you tried. That to me made the game much more worth playing and much more interesting. End came content with FFXI could not be matched, even WoW needs to release new expansions every year or so just to keep up with people out growing the game. As they make it easier people leave, plain and simple.

FFXIV is a game that surely needs time to grow, negative coments are just holding it back for other people willing to experience it. FFXI had low level caps, no end game content and no substance when it first came out but people stuck with it helping the game grow. Negative attitudes just hold everything back. The less people that play, the less money SE gets from the game, the less money they get the less they try, the less they try the faster it goes down and were all left with a bad taste in our mouthes over something that could have been great with the right amount of time and effort. Everyone expects an overnight success, this isnt Justin Bieber here... this is a MMORPG in one of the best series' video games have ever seen, it WILL be good given the time to grow.
State of the Game
# Feb 14 2011 at 5:53 PM Rating: Decent
15 posts
regemhegem wrote:
I personally have not played FFXIV as i am patiently awaiting the release for PS3. But from what i have read and heard, people are jumping on the "SE suxx" band wagon a little fast. Everyone seems to think WoW is some sort of miracle MMO but in fact it caters to emerging MMO fans who cannot figure out how to play an actual game. When you can get from level 1-80 in a weekend the game is broken and that is personally why i quit and will never play again.


So your argument is that people who don't like FFXIV are stupid and don't know how to play video games. That's just brilliant.

WoW was a miracle. It had 1 million subscribers in one month and only sky rocketed from there. It had it's flaws when it came out, sure, but at no point did Blizzard apologize for how bad it was or anything so radical as what Square Enix has gone through.

That's Final Fantasy XIV.

Quote:
End came content with FFXI could not be matched, even WoW needs to release new expansions every year or so just to keep up with people out growing the game. As they make it easier people leave, plain and simple.


Blizzard releases new content because players like to do new things. It's that simple. That's why they're on top. They give the players what they want while other MMOs let things stagnate.

Just give it to me
# Jan 19 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
15 posts
Less players? Wonderful! More space for me. I don't care about the others, or should I say I wouln't mind if I was the only player. I have ever only played RPGs offline so I have no expectations. I SSOOOO can't wait for it to come out!
developer minds
# Jan 02 2011 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
i want to give my opinion with developer minds

in japan, many game developer company still working with less people (some developer only have less than 100people, and sometimes even a project only created with less than 50 people), why? its because their only have limited money to produce a game
and from what i heard there still many game developer didn't use pipeline-working system because it just to less people

SquareEnix on otherhands already using pipeline (thanks to FF:Spirits Within, even the movies not success, but because that SE manage to create pipeline-work on they development)

if we compared SE to Blizzard, indeed we can see SE games lately just pure eye-candy games, rather than gameplay funfactor (opposite to nintendo that always look for better gameplay), its because the SE become big company that being greedy and think that their games will always be top seller games, its like their priority is make eye-candy graphic to lure people buy their games

SE-Fans might already Square Senior-creator like Sakaguchi-sensei and Uematsu-sensei leaving SE (now with their own mistwalker)... i think some developer leaving SE because some "reasons" ...
i think SE nowdays is full of CG-Artist rather than other aspect

if we see blizzard, we can see how long blizzard take time developing a titles, just to make sure the games their release wont dissapoint their costumer

If look few years ago, it also took a 3-4years for SE to develop FF7AC (yeah i know that not game)
So why SE didn't take time to develop their games? because in a company there are investor that give their money for use, and they want to get doubles from the money they invest, and long development is NG ... i think ff14 premature release also come from direction pushing FF14 to be released soon or FF14 only given limited development time
Also with the mind in Japan, i heard they have limited money for development cost, not like in States which some Studio already on Hollywood Movies levels

well maybe what i wrote just making some people confused.. like WTH i want to tell... well the point is... i want to say current SE titles is like that, Pure Eye-Candy games, thats it... when you buy a game expect high only on that(graphic) thing, and you will happy (´∇`)

sorry for my bad english
"Potential"
# Dec 31 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
Yes, they released the game too early. I agree with all the negative points about the game. The laggy NPC interface, the slow battle controls, macro delays and awkward targetting system, the complicated and slow interface, the server lag, the hours of mindless grinding after level 20, the lack of leves and length of leve reset, lack of content etc etc.. The list continues (some of which has been improved and is being further improved) but OK, alot of it is still there and we're still waiting. I also resent the fact they hyped up the game before release, raising everyone's expectations of the game.

However, from the way it appears to have been developed, it seems they have deliberately created almost a blank canvas to build on. This may sound obvious but in all the cities you see passages you can't turn down and areas off limits, the chocobos and airships haven't been brought in yet, the storyline hasn't been completed and ends on a cliff-hanger in all 3 cities, Ishgard isn't accessible yet etc. YES it's frustrating and you do become impatient. However, these are things that WILL happen and we WILL get to see.

FFXIV is a MMORPG, which means a story based adventure game with a plot. Think of it as a book. The best authors write their novels with loose ends, which makes you read on through the droll informative bits, while the plots thickens. It makes you read on to see what happens, and the cohesion of each of these loose ends makes the book a success. They are laying the foundations for their grand story.

I guess that's why I keep playing, I want to see what the loose ends bring me, I want to see the game bring me cohesion and completion of end plots. I wouldn't pay for a game's "potential" but I would pay to see how the story/game plays out.

As for the hours of grinding, well if you don't like it, don't play FF games. That's what they're about, every FF game is a grind game where you reap the benefits of your hard work. If it was easy to get to level 50 everyone would have it. This is why I don't play WoW. It's too easy..

FFXI is the opposite to WoW as is FFXIV and that's why I love it. It's hard work. I'm not a "fan-boy", I just like the challenge. That's why FFXIV attracts a different gamer to any other type of game.

There are so many good points to the game too that get pushed into the dark while the bad points get the spot light. I'm enjoying the game! However, I seem to be the minority, which is a shame really.
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Basics
# Dec 30 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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That is all, and it will be the end of all. Just include the basics of what worked and expand on it. Nobody is asking for a miracle, but rather what is to be expected of an MMO: progressive content. And it just lacks so much, that it is very difficult to see any long term gratification from the game, because they are so busy implementing and fixing things that should be standard in any MMO.

Of course folks are disappointed. Coming from FFXI, one would expect things to be in better shape than they are now, but alas, it is free to play right now and for good reasons.

I hope that SE can revive the most anticipated MMO in many years, but I see it falling victim to not meeting expectations just like WAR, AoC, and Aion just to name a few.

Innovation =/= leaving out basic functions.

Here's to hoping for great accomplishments, and much improved communication between what the players want, and what the developers can indeed deliver.
no right to complain?
# Dec 29 2010 at 12:59 PM Rating: Default
1 post
"The game is free to play for the time being, so players have no right to complain."

True for the beta.
Not so true for the people who paid retail for the game when it came out.


There's the argument that it was just released, and there are growing pains, and that the best content can only be truly appreciated if you just stick with it, etc.
I'd say, if you're bored or frustrated with a game after the first month, why keep playing? It's a videogame, it's suppose to feel Fun.

consequences..
# Dec 28 2010 at 2:44 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
I kinda agree. This is the first time I really feel the need to speak out against a gamedevelopment and I concider myself as very fair and patient in general. But as FF loving person it just breaks my heart to see what happened.

For a longterm market value in the mmo industry it should have been their prime directive to surpass a certain standard. So basically they should have taken WOW as their standard and try to make it even better. That is not to say that they should have copied it. I am personally sick of grinding-games. There are other ways. Look at Guild Wars. They made a great game with different approaches. One could play it as a single-player game with a nice story and cutscenes, one could just do PVP or whatever and it did´t even have monthly fees.

I just wonder that SE didn´t see it coming. SE would even have enough money to do a psychological study or survey of what people want im mmos and take it from there. As for this thread...I don´t know if I´m coming back. Even if they fix many things, the stage is set and better functions still won´t give me that FF quality experience where fantasy mixed with scifi takes you through a breathtaking epic with love to every detail. There´s no vision, just fixes...

Edited, Dec 28th 2010 3:53am by novakuma
Potential doesn't always matter
# Dec 26 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
Potential is great, but in the long run potential is NOT what makes a game and keeps players coming back.

Take Vanguard:Saga of Heroes, for example. The game launched too early, too many bugs, too many incomplete concepts. The game today has most if not all those problems fixed, its potential much more highly developed, but it is still devoid of players.

Can a game recover? Yes, but it is NOT common for them to do so. DDO, EQ2, recovered nicely, AoC not so well. Dark&Light, APB, completely failed to recover at all.

Many players give a game only the initial 'free' month to awe and impress, and it is hard as hell to draw them back after the flee a failed launch.
white knight fanboys
# Dec 23 2010 at 1:03 AM Rating: Good
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110 posts
If it takes the failure of FFXIV for Square and white knight fanboys to learn that players don't pay (neither in dollars nor interest) for a game's "potential" - so be it.

Much like the present paradigm of FFXI - SE's approach to 14 is little more than profit oriented gimmickry than real value content. The sheen on the FF brand is wearing too thin to mask this failure.

Final Fantasy's cache is mediocre at best these days. Their great titles are behind them (far behind them) and trash like FFXIV should rightly be swept aside by both audiences and critics.

If "white knights" can't understand the level of professional standards and expectations a whole MMO industry lives by maybe they should take off their diapers and check the calendar.

The next Gen of MMO FFXIV is not.

Hell it's not even competent by yesterdays MMO standards - which is exactly why it's FAILING.
white knight fanboys
# Dec 23 2010 at 10:55 PM Rating: Good
26 posts
datta wrote:
If it takes the failure of FFXIV for Square and white knight fanboys to learn that players don't pay (neither in dollars nor interest) for a game's "potential" - so be it.

Much like the present paradigm of FFXI - SE's approach to 14 is little more than profit oriented gimmickry than real value content. The sheen on the FF brand is wearing too thin to mask this failure.

Final Fantasy's cache is mediocre at best these days. Their great titles are behind them (far behind them) and trash like FFXIV should rightly be swept aside by both audiences and critics.

If "white knights" can't understand the level of professional standards and expectations a whole MMO industry lives by maybe they should take off their diapers and check the calendar.

The next Gen of MMO FFXIV is not.

Hell it's not even competent by yesterdays MMO standards - which is exactly why it's FAILING.


This
CONTENT
# Dec 21 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
2 posts
All I can say is CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT why lvl there is nothing to do no epic gear if i wanted to just grind out lvls any mmo would do. Sorry I loved all the FF games but 14 has left i bad taste in my mouth as i feel like i owe friends money for telling them to buy it what a waste.
CONTENT
# Dec 29 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,878 posts
sterdon wrote:
All I can say is CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT why lvl there is nothing to do no epic gear if i wanted to just grind out lvls any mmo would do. Sorry I loved all the FF games but 14 has left i bad taste in my mouth as i feel like i owe friends money for telling them to buy it what a waste.


That's where I am so confused. There is NOTHING to do. After playing FFXI for 6 years, I really feel a bit lost as to what is going on at all in XIV.
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FFXIV needs time..
# Dec 21 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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There are entirely too many people to individually quote/reply to them all, so I'll just make a blanket statement that agrees with the standpoint of FinalSwag:

You can't hold games like FFXI and WoW as a basis for comparison to what this game should be at this very moment. For one, this is a new game and the developers aren't trying to make some knock-off recreation of those aforementioned games. They are working to create an innovative new game with its own unique features. It needs time to develop its potential. Taking games that have had almost a decade or more of player feedback, updates, tweaks and expansions and comparing them to a game that hasn't even been out for a year is completely unrealistic.

Did SE make a mistake releasing the game as early as they did in order to compete with Cataclysm? Yes, most likely. But that's not the major point to consider. The only question that needs to be answered is, "Are the developers and staff at SE working to resolve the issues in an expedient and satisfactory fashion?" The answer to that is "yes". As such, the game has room for improvement and growth, and is worth watching. Every update they've made has improved the overall experience and made the game more enjoyable. The game isn't dead until that pattern ceases to hold true.

My two cents. Take it as you will.
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FFXIV needs time..
# Dec 24 2010 at 6:47 PM Rating: Decent
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362 posts
Kaetara wrote:
You can't hold games like FFXI and WoW as a basis for comparison to what this game should be at this very moment.

Except that people aren't comparing FFXIV to WoW and FFXI as they are now, they're comparing FFXIV to WoW and FFXI as they each were at their owns launches. Both games, FFXI and WoW, were still better and had more content at their launches than FFXIV did at its.


Edited, Dec 24th 2010 7:47pm by Rhianu
FFXIV needs time..
# Dec 26 2010 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
actually WoW and 11 had ALOT of work that needed to b done at launch,
its common for MMOS, too many ppl are too harsh and critical for how early it is n the games life. ppl should b drawn in to the fact that there is soooo much room for content and improvement on this title.
every patch fixes as well as adresses and adds content. i enjoy not knowing what im doing, but knowing that soon there will b a ton of new classes and content. and that gives me a sense of wonder n anticipation.
u wanna go mash out dungeons mindlessly on wow for badges that get u the same crap everyone already has, and gives NO since of accomplishment go ahead, if u wanna play a game that actually stimulates ur brain and gives u a sense of reward, then iu suggest u stick w/FF14, i still beleive this can b a GREAT title for the next 10 years.
yay!
# Dec 21 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Default
I am very excited about the changes, but I was also excited with the game before them. People need to complain, I get it, but when they decided other people wanted to listen to them complain all day, I do not know.

W00hoo! After years of playing "The Inflated AH Game" im super happy they are still trying to avoid the use of a AH.

Thank you SE for implimenting the ability to move/shrink the widgets anywhere, and for adding the XI windower countdown timer. That was great.
I also think (response to the MH posts) they have MH's in the works. I believe that will be the second market entrance we cant enter yet.

The only real "meh" for the game for me is lack of parties, but that comes with the in work party funtions, im sure it will get fixed soon enough, and people actually using it.
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give it time
# Dec 21 2010 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
well i agree that 14 wasnt exactly what we expected when it came out ... i even took a month away from the game myself, the thing is people get lazy...they dont wanna take the time and effort that it takes to get the most out of their game. I played 11 since NA release. I grinded out several lvl 75 jobs ... did we ever get quest(leve) xp? NO! but what i did get was.... i learned to play my class and made alot of close friends from grinding for hours on end. I think everyone should just chill out and just see what happens. So give it time, you cant expect to have a MMO where everything is completed at release.
lol
# Dec 21 2010 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
realy now.....Square enix should burn to the ground they dont make quality games anymore they just became a selfish company quantity over quality...since they became square enix all they games was trashes maybe except Kingdom hearts 2 still less better than the first one,ff13 wont bother talk about it the game is simply awful.ff14 is unplayable everything in this game is just meh........SQUARESOFT WHERE ARE YOU!!!!!!!!!
11 was no better
# Dec 21 2010 at 8:27 AM Rating: Decent
10 posts
ppl complain no chocobos no airships no AH and blah blah
i would like something to break up the monotony of leves and grinding but im still somewhat happy with 14
and i think with time SE will make 14 much better

what some ppl dont know is 11 was in just as bad as a state when released in JP there were no chocobos, no AH, lvl cap was 30, no sub jobs, only 6 jobs to choose from and, players ddint know what to do or where to go but look at it now
hmph
# Dec 20 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
Could the new breed of MMO players be causing any problems with their lack of experience and understanding of how MMOs naturally develop over time? Ive never played WOW, but the players ive met use WoW as the standard reference for MMOs, and as an addict of MMOs myself i know there is a skewed perception there. I wish WoW had never been created.

WoW is to the MMO genre; as shane west is to "the germs"


I have total faith in square to complete a good game. Im hoping they just got ahead of themslves and wanted to keep that 2010 release date. But, for me, they defined what an RPG should be, they are the reason i started playing them. If they cant do it... ill be damned.
Looking for the future
# Dec 20 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
7 posts
First off I'd like to say the post about people whom complain but stay with the game are being misjudged in a way, I am agreeing with you. If there isn't 'complaining' we would never have a voice therefore there wouldn't be improvements. I view this complaining as constructive criticism for SE to take or leave.

Now then...

This game started off on a bad foot, and really I don't think there is a single person that could say otherwise, am I right? I'm glad we all can agree on something: It needs some change.

The new development team I feel while odd, I am hopeful it will prove to be something positive for the future of this game.

On the bad note, we did pay money for the game disc and technically it's not free game play at least for awhile and by then, it better be improved/changed/a plan set into motion to have us start paying for this game. (talking about how they were going to start charging once they had a plan in motion)

I was nervously biting my nails thinking this game could be a total flop when I first started playing at release.
However even if it's just tiny adjustments, it has successfully improved game and entertainment for me to keep interested in the future.

Now to what I'm confused about.
What was the whole point of the retainer system other than to be different than an auction house? Does anyone seriously know? Please point it out to me. I'm not being sarcastic here so please don't start yelling if you choose to answer this.

I'd like to state a response here about buying items using retainer. Why? I don't understand... it seems like a waste of coding and time to have all this excess stuff. If they're planing on having prices in the search function in a future update, isn't that about the same idea as an auction house only a little more cluttered? *scratches head* Eventually with it I'm sure people will set their prices almost the same...
The positive thing about having this kind of system is you can sell more than like 7 items at a time (but couldn't they just make it so you could sell more on the AH?). But other than that...

I don't want to completely stamp out this retainer idea, I just don't understand the real benefit of it. o_<; I suppose I will wait and see! :3

In the future, I'd like to see us have some houses of our own so we don't have so many people on the streets trying to craft. As for other means of transportation, sure, but I'm not in a huge rush for it. We're kinda in a type of beta still (despite us paying for the disc).

I will continue to remain loyal to this game because I see the great potential in it. I may be confused or unsure about some things and yes, I may complain a little about the content but I will keep a strong head about it. I mean after all, isn't that what the player base is about? Providing feedback, being patient, giving a push as to what we really would like to see, question what is in there? You can do these things without being harshly rude about it.
Looking for the future
# Dec 20 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
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SelenaUzume wrote:


Now to what I'm confused about.
What was the whole point of the retainer system other than to be different than an auction house? Does anyone seriously know? Please point it out to me. I'm not being sarcastic here so please don't start yelling if you choose to answer this.


It was set in place in order to have a market system that would not allow RMT's from dominating the economy. It would've worked if they had removed player bazaars and introduced residential zones where players could have their moghouses and vendor npcs inside their homes... turning one zone per city into a market ward+housing area. The way SE implemented the market wards however, shows how little effort SE put into its design and Q/A testing.

Quote:

If they're planing on having prices in the search function in a future update, isn't that about the same idea as an auction house only a little more cluttered? *scratches head* Eventually with it I'm sure people will set their prices almost the same...


That search wasn't part of the original plan. It was implemented in the wake of dramatically falling subscriptions as players cited lack of AH and bad feedback from the retainer system as a key reason to cancelling the subscription.

People will not set the prices to almost the same. Games like Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU not the current SWG) used a retainer npc market system and did have a price search feature. However prices varied wildly simply because of supply (not demand). In simple terms, a regular player that gets an item from a mob and sells it will have a hard time selling it on his vendor compared to a player that consistently hunts that specific mob for that specific item and whose retainer almost always has lots of those in stock. Why? The players that need to buy that item will go to the specialist's retainer 1st thing since he has a steady supply.

Through this system RMT's cannot dominate the server's supply of that item with just one account selling it... players need to find that RMT retainer and RMT's need to find other players who sell that item to lower their price and try to dominate the market. Eventually they will realize its impossible (just as it happened in SWG) and try to RMT some other way.

Looking for the future
# Dec 21 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
7 posts
Thank you for your detailed response it made me understand the situation better.
Troll Knights!
# Dec 20 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Here's a collage made from the original article which represents what in my opinion is, the heart of the matter.

Troll Knight's view:

"It not only had the prestige of the Final Fantasy series to live up to, but eight years of Square Enix's previous MMO, Final Fantasy XI, to answer for"

"And why shouldn't Square Enix account for the way they handled FFXI? If I'm going to jump into their new MMO, their track record with such titles is very important."

"to compare this MMO with FFXI -- that game was also made almost 10 years ago. Shouldn't a decade of experience have translated to a much better title?"

"They needed their existing players to vouch for them, but instead, the players lashed out."

"FFXIV is now receiving "awards" like Most Disappointing Title."

"The fact of the matter is FFXIV was released in a completely unplayable state. The players were on board from the very beginning trying to improve it -- to no avail. What happened to building the game with the players? From the alpha to the beta to the final version, it seemed the only major change was the snail's pace battle system."

"Even with the free months, FFXIV was not a game worth paying for at the time of release. I'm still not sure if it is now."

"Square Enix took a gamble by rushing FFXIV out to beta other upcoming MMOs. They flubbed it, and now have to live with the image they have created for themselves."



I will only add one thing to this: The game is not 'free' so we should not 'complain'. We paid for the box version of the game which is essentially almost 6 months worth of subscription. Almost all MMO's now are free to download for PC's whereas SE chose to sell a box version and run their costs up that way. Therefore it was not 'free' and the reality is what was sold was literally a lemon product. Given those circumstances, it is ridiculous not to expect complaints to come in even when 'free' months are given. The game is still garbage.
posted in wrong place ^^
# Dec 20 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Default
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57 posts
sorry posted in wrong area

Edited, Dec 20th 2010 12:53pm by poisonsenvy
im happy with what i got here
# Dec 20 2010 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent
i can go with 2 friends, and party with monsters without a hitch.. i can go do a leve and make some money and adjust the difficulty accordingly

i can pick up a leve to make free crafting stuff to lvl myself up. i can repair my friends gear cuz he asked me to.. i can wear colored gear cuz im able to make it

i walked into a giant buffalo the other day cuz my friend rang off my linkshell pearl like a bastard


ive explored coerthas almost completely with 2 friends running like hell past hippogryphs just to find drakes.. then the other way to find gigantic ogres, and forget the tunnel, theres a nasty toad there

speakin of toads, tryin to solo one, you cant run away cuz they got long ass tongue that will pull you right back to them..

heading to town? watch out for the giant hog standing in the middle of the road, doesnt look too friendly either :)

i cant say ive had such an exhilirating experience in playing FFXI after a year as ive had playing XIV within 3 months.. best part of this game? nothings set in stone.. i dont HAVE to be a Monk with a Warrior subjob, i DONT HAVE to do this ability in order to make the party flawless,
flexibility should be key nowadays, and XIV has given players much more of it than other MMO's ive played.. and ive played my fair share.. ill stick around for this game as long as its around, and i hope that it develops into a great game like its poised to be.. @#%^ if i have to go back to XI.. its too rigid and ppl are too strict with their standards, ruins the game :/
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well...
# Dec 20 2010 at 5:06 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
SE has been doing this in their latest titles. FF13 for me was a utter disappointment, and FF12 was no better. I looked with hope to FF14, I mean, how much more can you screw up... the game was rly bad from day one, graphics were impressive char wise, but the world feels so empty(and I'm not only talking about player base). The UI is horrible and even worse the targetting system. SE has woken up too late in my opinion, they are trying to correct something a little too late. I'm willing to give them a chance since im a hardcore fan of the game and I would still be patient enough for them to correct it but I know that not everybody thinks like this. Of my friends that started playing with me I'm the only one left, and can I blame them? The silly quest system that makes you have like 3 decent quests from 48 hours in 48 hours, the lack of decent drops or variety on equip, the "rare" mobs that you don't get to kill or even if you do you get no decent reward in experience/skill points or equip. The lack of chocobos or airship, the confusion that are the market wards. The same fighting system with no stuff that FF rly shines uppon, I mean, if you throwed some summons in the mix wouldn't that be awesome? Or taking some ideas of what made the single games so awesome. FF has such a large universe and background that could rly outshine others in the competition, too bad SE was looking only for the easy way when they released the game. Now it might be too late to bring back that fanbase, all is nice that hardcore gamers like me stay in the game, but a handfull of players don't pay the bills, a big fanbase does.
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Hard-core-Casual
# Dec 20 2010 at 4:48 AM Rating: Decent
12 posts
Some quick thoughts after reading your posts.

First off, I consider myself a hard-core-casual player. I don't strive for end-game content (i.e. I don't try to get the best the fastest) and I take the game as it develops (not the game itself, but the fantasy realm in which we play). I am mostly a solo player (behests and RL friends are all I tend to party for). But I do play every single day (minimum 2-3 hours). I primarily just do my leves and that's that. I tend to hunt around for the most efficient (since you only get 16 per reset) and if I'm at a camp around behest time, I join those.

For me, there is no need for an AH because I enjoy being self-sufficient. Yeah, I won't be the best, but I'm able to hold my own. I make or earn my own gear, and only look to buy when I need that next jump. Besides not having supergear makes me work for the leves. I enjoy the personal challenge aspects they've added (star-system), and think it's a good way to keep things lively.

The Market Wards aren't as broken as everyone thinks they are - so if your main complaint about them is the selling crap - vendors still work. (Buying crap is totally understandable. Search function would be much loved.)

I believe we're hard on SE because we wanted a working finished product. Yeah, they screwed up, but they're actually expediantly resolving a ton of the initial issues (yes, they stank initially).

Personally, I enjoy the game immensly, but I'm waiting on the introduction of more story content (which is lacking unfortunately). Waiting every 10 or so ranks and the being done with it in a day or two only to wait 10 ranks, is disheartening. I see potential here, and I want the story to pull me in. Please, please, please add story.
A place to call home ...
# Dec 20 2010 at 3:39 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
26 posts
Residential areas..plz!! You know, a place to hang your hat and store things(you can never have enough storage!!). Receive mail,and craft in the peace and comfort of your own mog.It would help with congestion if people had somewhere to go besides camping on the steps of the guild like the homeless. Also an AH would further help the matter, so people wouldn't have to stand around the city to sell their wares. It's obvious they aren't using the market wards. I never go there and still find everything I need outside that area. If we could get the excess people off the streets frame rates in the city would
surely go up.
That's the way it is
# Dec 20 2010 at 3:07 AM Rating: Decent
7 posts
Quote:
The only thing that SE really communicated was information regarding the stability of the engine. Honestly, they should have had a staff member keep an eye out for threads that had value, and then had those threads marked for observation, even if alpha testers couldn't see which threads they had marked.


They DO have staff that searches through the forum for complains, feedback etc, but as it seems still not enough people.
I have to admit, that the game was pretty "hard" to play in the beginning, but slowly it became better and better and still it rises hope within me. I am now even daring to say that I am actually looking forward to play each day (even with surplus).

I really hope SE keeps up the path it is currently on and learns from the community.
first post
# Dec 20 2010 at 3:01 AM Rating: Decent
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80 posts
No Ah is a bad thing I agree. if my sig shows you know what i've done so far without posting a thing

I've made money, it seems so easy to get rank appropriate equipment, (using "auction house" websites.) Being mostly a crafter so far, it's been smooth sailing, almost too easy into early 20s.

This is so much more relaxing than ffxi despite the obvious flaws, I don't need people a whole lot. No urgent need to form partys/alliances. I play with my brother and get by. There seems to be no purpose though. I need a drive, big equipment to work towards like ffxi. Even high level stuff seems relatively cheap compared to ffxi. Not sure whether it's a good or bad thing at this point.
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Is it too late?
# Dec 20 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Decent
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101 posts
Three things have become very apparent to me in the months since the game was released.

1. Most players (myself included) had an unrealistic expectation of the game to begin with.

2. SE isn't being given a fair chance.

3. FFXIV has potential.

I had originally intend to write a lot more but it quickly became a wall of text so I'll just settle for this. We all know there are problems but I think we are stuck in our discontent, so stuck that we don't realize we are just hurting the game even more. Population size? Revised financial projections? If people took a moment to look beyond the obvious shortcomings of the game to consider how we as consumers who truthfully want the game to thrive are ultimately contributing to its demise with our unconstructive negativity, I think we would be able to, or at least realize how important it is to, filter out the bandwagon QQ in order to be both critical and supportive of SE and FFXIV rather than myopically pessimistic and destructive. Without our support there is no way for the game to survive, no matter how badly you may want an AH. I think a lot of people missed that fact.



Edited, Dec 20th 2010 3:22am by FinalSwag
Is it too late?
# Dec 20 2010 at 3:46 AM Rating: Good
30 posts
It's not unrealistic to expect basic things like travel, useable UI and intermediary quest lines. That's basically a function of tons of MMOs these days.
Is it too late?
# Dec 20 2010 at 5:34 AM Rating: Decent
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101 posts
I can't think of a single MMO that I played near release that had a travel option that was better than anima teleporting within its first few months. I also can't think of a MMO that had a flawless storyline immediately upon release. That is exactly my point. People are using quality markers of games that have been refined for months or even years to determine whether FFXIV is worth playing.

And while I'll be the first to admit there are some obnoxious oversights in the game, the UI being one and the lack of an auto-sort function being another, everyone knows that the disappointment doesn't stem from a few frustrating features or lack thereof, not to mention both of those issues wre addressed/fixed. FFXIV is only the second of SE's notable online MMO's. I would argue that the people who were most vocal and influential about their expectations of the game pre-release are former/current FFXI players. If you look back at old posts, people are asking about advanced jobs, auction houses, even comparing Gladiator play to Paladin play. These are all aspects that are unique to FFXI and to our knowledge were never intended for FFXIV. FFXIV is (in certain ways) unfairly treated as a FFXI expansion that flipped the script as opposed to the new experience that I believe the devs intended for it to be.
no need to complain
# Dec 20 2010 at 1:51 AM Rating: Decent
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179 posts
We are playing for free, its an open beta, no need to complain, all we need to do now is make SE understand that for this game to succeed it needs the following, and without it, it will never work:

1-AH, yes we need one and without it things will never work.
2-Chocobo and airships.
3-Mail
4-More slots for trade function.
5-Content, new quests (not guildleves), epic stories.


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no need to complain
# Jan 01 2011 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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2,398 posts
daour wrote:
We are playing for free, its an open beta, no need to complain, all we need to do now is make SE understand that for this game to succeed it needs the following, and without it, it will never work:

1-AH, yes we need one and without it things will never work.
2-Chocobo and airships.
3-Mail
4-More slots for trade function.
5-Content, new quests (not guildleves), epic stories.




uh what? things are working just fine with the market wards now.

and how the hell did you put content at the very bottom under such tripe as mail and more trade slots?
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monk
dragoon

I enjoy it!
# Dec 20 2010 at 1:36 AM Rating: Default
7 posts
I actually really enjoy the game. Ive been playin ffxi since the day it came out on ps2. when it came out it wasnt perfect. just look before the sync system. i would log on at a low lvl and not get a party invite or could form a pt cuz of my job. rdm before 40 gets no love ><. a whole day of just trying to solo and wait for a pt wasted over and over again. even the new system (abys) is creating people lvlin jobs they never wanted to lvl just to max it out and play like crap. no system is perfect and never will be. so many people complain that this isn't like there fav game. isnt that the point. i was interested in playing ffxiv because it was a different idea and it looked like they would be doin stuff they wanted to do with ffxi but couldnt. its a pretty game and i dont feel like i have to schedule my life around it. ive lost 2 girl friends to 11 lol. i can log on for hours and do stuff or i can long on for a few mins and still get stuff done. there are some things i dont like. not to fond of the markets but im waiting to see wut they do with it. to me its a good idea just needs work. just like everything they have ever done. i love the battle system i like feeling like im doing something. ive read post of people complaining that its not auto battle where they could leave when ever to use the wc or fix something to eat O.o why are these people not playing a console game where they can hit pause where they can be lazy. people on line are pretty kewl when u mention that u gotta wc. i dont like auto battle. ive fallen asleep pleanty of times in 11 and ive seen all kindsa people do it also. im still low lvl in 14 and im having fun tryin out the crafts and im planing on playing this way past when they start charging or if all hell breaks loose this game is cut short before it can truly shine. just hope people start relizing that all games start somewhere and have been thru all kindsa updates and patches and expansions to get where they are. just give it time. most people set thru other games waiting for fixes. /end of random rant /log into ffxiv
#KiranRedtail, Posted: Dec 19 2010 at 11:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Seriously? Is this even an argument? Other than the fact that they existed in FFXI, and that there are apparent NPCs at key locations, the fact that you can't experience content that has not been released yet is your reasoning for hating the content that *has* been released?
Please give us AH
# Dec 19 2010 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
Well... i have played alot of FFXIV i addmit, i do like the game, but the fact that theres no auction house is the reason im quitting, yes i know, it maybe a lame excuse to make the decision base on theres or not an AH. I gave this game my patience and time, but for me, i feel in my own experience that im wasting my time shouting for armor or weapon/ or to check each user near the NPC that fixes gear/ or to enter the place where you can check the "mules" of other characters where they dont put the right item in the right place. Losing half an hour (or more) trying to get equipment and not get it, it is not fair, i may have dedicated that time doing something around the house or play call of duty, etc. I know you could go out there and get some shards, or whatever but when thats not your real interest, it would be boring to something you dont want in that moment. So i really hope that SE give us an AH soon, im not depreciating the strong efforts this guys are doing, in fact they have made it funner to play, cheers for that, but until we get an AH i'll play again :(.
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Float
# Dec 19 2010 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
20 posts
The people who complain but still play are the ones who will save FFXIV. To call them trolls is to belittle their dedication. SE might actually start listening to feedback now, and whose feedback is more useful than that of a critic who plays despite the flaws? Feedback like "everything is perfect" would have gotten us where, exactly?

The real trolls are the white knights: there are problems with the game, but anyone who says so is immediately attacked and told to stop playing the game and never come back. The Square-Enix Defense Force poisons the game more than any amount of complaining ever will.
Float
# Dec 21 2010 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
CaerithII wrote:
The people who complain but still play are the ones who will save FFXIV. To call them trolls is to belittle their dedication. SE might actually start listening to feedback now, and whose feedback is more useful than that of a critic who plays despite the flaws? Feedback like "everything is perfect" would have gotten us where, exactly?

The real trolls are the white knights: there are problems with the game, but anyone who says so is immediately attacked and told to stop playing the game and never come back. The Square-Enix Defense Force poisons the game more than any amount of complaining ever will.


Theres trolls and theres people trying to make a difference in game play. Say you work at a burger joint. The coustmer who tells you your drinks are flat and you may want to change the carbonation is a helpful person. the one who throws the drink in the servers face and says, "YOU SUCK! IM NEVER COMMING BACK TO THIS sh*tHOLE!" is just a assbag.
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Soooo not paying to put a siggy on [insert hot Miqote girl here/]
Waiting for it...
# Dec 19 2010 at 9:30 PM Rating: Decent
17 posts
on the PS3 i know wont be until...well dont know really lol (kinda pissed about that). Played FFxi for 5 yrs its was my 1st mmorpg and just LOVED it, so much better that playing by yourself. Actually signed for alpha/beta last year (when they said it was going to be released on both systems at once, kinda pissed about that too lol).

But yea i hear all the good/bad things people say about the game and i really dont care cause ill make my own opinion when i get the game.
Failed Game
# Dec 19 2010 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
Being a long time FFXI player I looked forward to FFXIV with rose coloured glasses. I knew there would be issues on the release day and not everything would be perfect. I really didn't expect the unplayable lag and insanely impossible to use interface.

I spent extra money to get the 'special edition' so I could play one week early. Now all I wish is that I could get my money back.

This is the single most disappointing game I've ever played. What SE learned from FFXI they simply threw out for the design of FFXIV. I've crawled back to FFXI where, after years of adjustments, SE has a somewhat playable game even though the graphics look like ms-paint.
Still reserving (final) judgment...
# Dec 19 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent
I can see that many people just hate this game. In fact what attracted me to this game was the fact no one really loved this game. What that meant to me is that I could play a game with people who were indeed hardcore fans and in that be part of a tighter knit community. After years of World of Warcraft I was worn out by the gimmegimmegimmenownownow brats of the new wave of MMORPGers. Gearscore this and 40 hour a week hardcore raiding guild that. It was just too much hassle to be a part of that, so I quit that game back in May. Between then and a month after release I played no MMOs whatsoever. I saw FFXIV and was really impressed with the idea and the look (even though it's really just a re-skinned FFXI). The major problem just about everyone has with this game is that it's old school. Really old school. Intolerably old school. These days a game must go live with certain features (mailbox, auction house, bosses and boss loot). Doing otherwise will certainly cause much outrage throughout the player base, as has been the case here. Personally I will wait patiently until Square Enix patches the game to the point where they will resume a monthly subscription rate. Then I'll have an idea what I'm paying for and if it's worth it.
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I don't care what others think
# Dec 19 2010 at 7:37 PM Rating: Default
1 post
Okay, I agree that this game was a bit disappointing when it comes out. I agree that yes, some of the critism is valid.

However, all I can say is, I was among the first to purchase FFXI and I stopped playing right away in 1 month (essentially after free period is over). Right now I am into the 3rd month in FFXIV and I would still pay to play it once the free period is over. Yeah, there is still the occasional F**K SE! WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING WHEN THEY DESGINED *****!!!?!? But with each of the update, I grew to like playing the game more and more.

I don't give a damn for what the pundits and critics say. All I konw is that I enjoy this game. I love spending time online in FFXIV.

So in the end, who cares what others say? To each their own.
Unfair
# Dec 19 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Default
9 posts
From the time of release this game has reminded me of the movie Meet the Parents. Though Ben Stiller shouldn't of done some of the things he did like lie to his hopeful future father-in-law he was never given a fair chance. People hated the game from literally day one which was WAY too early to form an opinion about an MMORPG. I for one LOVE FFXIV and always will. It was a bit rough of a start, but it is now an amazing game that I am obsessed with.

Graphics are amazing. I play with real life friends in the game so it's not that lonely, and I do meet and talk to quite a few people so socially the game isn't terrible. the combat system is SO fun, I love every second of grinding where in FFXI it was literally a chore.

Lack of game content? WTF are people talking about? No everything isn't released yet but you know it is coming obviously. I am constantly busy and never find myself without something to do. There are main story line quests, leves that reset every 36 hours with new ones always around the corner, a well done crafting system at least in my opinion where I actually WANT to craft, behest once an hour where you get to party with insane amounts of players to go raise hell, I LOVE IT!

People need to form their own opinions and give FFXIV a chance again and learn to be a little patient as it only gets better from here. I feel sorry for anyone that missed out just because of release day faults.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 7:23pm by jackson68x
Unfair
# Dec 20 2010 at 3:48 AM Rating: Excellent
30 posts
Why give FFXIV a chance when there are so many better games on the market? FFXIV was given a chance. Plenty of us were early adopters.
Unfair
# Dec 19 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
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548 posts
jackson68x wrote:


People need to form their own opinions and give FFXIV a chance again and learn to be a little patient as it only gets better from here. I feel sorry for anyone that missed out just because of release day faults.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 7:23pm by jackson68x

We did form our own opinion, bub. That's why the game is mostly empty now.

And mised out because of "release day issues"? Since when does "release day" last 2+ friggin' months? Take the glasses off.
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Turd Indeed
# Dec 19 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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295 posts
But is there a good way for a player to voice their ideas on a subject?

Is there any way we can facilitate some basic needs, and discussion among the player base about overall improvements?

I would imagine that the reaction from SE means that they are keeping an eye on the forums, so I request the help of our forum moderators to track the ideas from the community, and keep them organized.

I can't blame SE for not being able to sift through all the crap posted on their beta forums, but I can blame them for not taking any initiative towards responding to players concerns over problems with the core functions of the game.

The only thing that SE really communicated was information regarding the stability of the engine. Honestly, they should have had a staff member keep an eye out for threads that had value, and then had those threads marked for observation, even if alpha testers couldn't see which threads they had marked.

Also, Cheesecake is still in the middle of the room.
Turd Indeed
# Dec 20 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
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812 posts
MetalSmith wrote:

Also, Cheesecake is still in the middle of the room.

That's some old-ass cheesecake, I wouldn't touch it. ;)
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Abaddon Active Player Roster
- All your Fabul Sever are belong to us! -


Offensive to people with good taste
# Dec 22 2010 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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172 posts
I find it offensive to consider people with good taste in MMO's to be trolls. The only thing they want is for the game to be better. The "White Knights" as you call them are just so fanboy-ish that they blind themselves to the truth that this game was released and still is in a horrible state, for every single step they tried to make this game "innovative" they took 10 steps back. It might be good one day, but it's going to be a long while, play something more entertaining in the meantime.

Should've just called the "White Knights" Blind Fan-boys, and the Trolls, People with Good Taste.
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