Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users

Today, a number of accounts which were confirmed to have violated the user agreement by using unauthorized third-party software tools within FINAL FANTASY XI to enable abnormal in-game movement were discovered and have been suspended or permanently terminated.

Based on the results of an investigation, over 1,400 PlayOnline accounts have been either suspended or terminated on Aug. 30, 2006 for the malicious and intentional use of these third-party tools.

We would like to take this time to remind our players that the use of any third-party tools will not only destroy the in-game balance, but will also encourage RMT (real money trading) activities. We will continue to take strict actions against those individuals that we have confirmed to have used such tools.

Please note that some of these third-party tools may cause character information to be altered, erased, or personal information to be leaked to unwanted third parties. If you come across a third-party tool over the Internet, we ask that you please refrain from the download of such a tool, no matter how minor it may appear to be.

To ensure our customers could enjoy the game safely, we will continue to apply measurements to combat these third-party tools and violations.

We thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this matter.

Comments

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Square can not detect third party tools
# Sep 05 2006 at 3:29 AM Rating: Decent
This is something I don't think a lot of people realize, but if you read the ToS, they mention nothing about checking users if they are third party programs. They also can not check if you've made changes to the software. The only thing they really are able to check is the data sent and recieved.

In the U.S., if you own a peice of software. You can do with it pretty much as you wish, as long as you don't violate copyright laws. This includes reverse engeneering, modifying code or game data, using software to assist you use these programs, and a bunch of other things. It's your software, you can do whatever you wish with it.

So obviously, since Square does not know what you are running on your computer or what you've modified, then how are they able to ban all these people? The only way would be thru observation. By other players or Square staff themselves. And this is real circumstancial (sp) evedence they're using.

Remember, they can suspend or ban your account for any reason they wish. They can say it was because of so and so... they don't have to tell you a reason why.

____________________________
I hate Signatures! I wish they'd all go away!
Windower
# Sep 03 2006 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
I just love all these crybabies, whining over bans on third-party violations. I am on the Bismarck Server, and I just love NM campers, they give me butterflies everytime they steal a NM I had claim on. It doesn't bother me one bit that people using these tools are being banned! Why? Because being on a XBox 360, I don't get any of these advantages these crybabies get. I play the game, and get my gil the correct way, by putting my work in!! I don't sit there and use an advantage to get a leg up on everyone else around me, I play the game and if I'm better than you, then guess what?! It's cuz I put my work in!

I feel no sympathy for anyone who gets banned for doing something they are not supposed to do in the game. Why? Because I don't get to see what your TP is, and I don't get to see my boundries around a mob, I have to play the game.

I do however get to talk to friends on the 360 while playing FFXI. So I do sympathize with those who say they'd like to be able to IM friends while waiting. But I seriously doubt you get the lag I do while talking in voicechat, the lag I recieve both in-game and on voicechat make it a very bad idea to use it while playing.

So to those who whine and cry about not being able to use "Windower", keep crying about it. Because I speak for those of us who don't have that advantage when I say....."Blow it out your A@@, and stop crying about it!"

I've only had the game 3 months and I'm already sick of gil sellers, NM campers, and those who know my info when I can't access theirs. It's a **** game!!! Your life isn't going to end if you aren't able to have every advantage possible in this game!!!! I can't access the internet while playing, I can't watch TV(as ridiculious as watching TV while playing a game is, though football season is an exception) while playing this game, and I can't view your stats that should be exclusive to you only, while playing this game, and I can't spawn rape an NM or steal an NM from someone who has claim already while playing this game.

I pay my $12.95/month to SE, and $49.99/year to Microsoft in order to enjoy FFXI. And I work 50+ hours a week, in order to ensure I have such luxuries, so I and those like me who only want to enjoy the game, and try to get as far into the game as possible doing so the correct way, have a single thought about those of you who cry about not getting to use such advantages that most of us don't have the luxury of using.........

....Crybabies!!!

I am a Rank 5, Bismarck Server, 100+ quests done, only Novice Rank on Cloth, but that s#!t is expensive to lvl when I have 8 jobs going similtaniously and constantly need gil for armor, weapons and spells, and wasting gil on BCNM's and paste for my little plain looking baby choco(I wanted a Black one, but got a Yellow one :(. He's still a pimp though!). And I can gaurantee I am as far or further than all of you who are whining about this subject after only 3 months of owning this game, and I have no advantages in this game over other players, except for the fact that I'm not a reject and don't need an edge in order to accomplish anything in this game!

Stop Crying!
Windower
# Sep 04 2006 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
*
169 posts
AMEN Brotha Man! AMEN!
____________________________
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Name: Trebor
Main: Warrior(75)Main
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?130838
What's the PlayOnline message displayed on Banned Accounts?
# Sep 02 2006 at 5:45 PM Rating: Default
I'm using the windower without plugins (not even TP) since few months.
I was still playing this morning, and my internet connection failed,
when I tried to log back on three hours after, there was a message asking for account reactivation (which end up declined for some not yet known reason).

Since it's weekend, I can't contact SE yet.
But maybe some of you guys know you are banned and can tell what message/explication you did have? I'm worried..

As for future, if it means ending up banned after all this time of effort, loosing gamemates, linkshells... windower can go to hell, I guess.. The guy developping it should just have removed plugins option from the program long time ago.
I too, find it not right not to have a windowing option, I used to listen shoutcast radios while playing, monitoring irc, read news websites, read mails, etc... without this option it's a pain in the ass.. really.

I'm just hoping not to have to start everything again, I met good people there, It's been really fun. And yet I feel so ashamed, I'm not sure that I'm banned, but if it's the case, I can not think talking to my "friends" again and that sadens me.

Well, anyway have a nice day / night.

windower
# Sep 02 2006 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
25 posts
FFXI ='s forced-full screen.
Windows XP ='s multitasking operating system.
SE violates my rights by being a Microsoft OS owner.
Microsoft doesnt Endorse FFXI.
Just my 2 cents
windower a violation of Tos
# Sep 02 2006 at 11:26 AM Rating: Decent
25 posts
personally i dont find a problem with ppl using windower. It is my understanding that Microsoft didnt endorse FFXI because of forced full screen. Windows is a multitasking operating system and as such your supposed to be able to run other programs in the background I.E. Internet explorer. And since FFXI is forced full-screen i violates my rights as a Microsoft owner, thus why Microsoft didnt endorse FFXI. just my 2 cents
Somewhat Unrelated Random Thoughts on possible RMT solutions
# Sep 01 2006 at 7:58 PM Rating: Excellent
2 posts
Being a computer programmer and having done a very small bit of online multi-player game programming, I have been studying a couple of the RMT types I've seen. These types include:
  • NM Campers
  • Character Sellers


I have had a few thoughts on these problems and will list them. Please understand that I'm speaking totally from the programming aspect and am focusing on doing away from the bad guy. As for the game's economy, these ideas could be a terrible idea and I would like to see someone else's standpoint on why this would be a bad idea.

RMT NM Campers

These guys seem to have one purpose in life... To beat everyone to the NM and try to get as many drops as possible to be sold in the AH. I assume that gil is then transferred to a gil buyer eventually. I've been solely focusing on Jackeon, Wencent, and Crobont on the Hades server in this study... These 3 (rumored to be the same person) have somehow evaded MANY SE banning sprees in the past, or so I've heard.

Solutions?

  • Make every good NM drop Exclusive. I royally hate this idea and do not support it, but am going to mention it because someone else probably will. This would completely do away with RMT NM Campers, but would also make the ordinary innocent player a victim being that they would not be rewarded if they were lucky enough to kill the NM a second or third time. Bad idea...
  • Modify drop rates. This is my preferred idea, but please read before bashing me. Lets apply a system like what was done to fishing (which I've heard some say totally ruined fishing, but lets not go there.) Each time a player kills the NM and gets a drop, significantly reduce the chance of that same player getting the drop again. Over time, allow that drop rate to SLOWLY (as in over a period of several days and/or weeks) increase back to the normal rate. This would allow people to get multiple NM drops, but would also make RMT NM Camping more pointless. Yes, it would effect some innocent people, but not nearly as much. The only way RMT NM Campers could stay in business is if they switched to a different NM after getting a drop, but they would likely run into serious competition (other RMT NM Campers) and/or be fustrated for having to fight NMs they know little about.


Character Sellers

I've been watching a group of suspect character sellers on the Hades server. These guys all had no linkshell, ALWAYS partied with each other, and ALWAYS had a PL with them. In the specific group I watched, two characters did the fighting, and the other four were mostly abandoned, but were used to cast a spell or two when needed. I will also mention that I ran across another group of similar people who _ALL_ received Connection Lost at the exact same moment which tells me that they were more than likely being ran out of the same household.

Solutions?

  • Limit PlayOnline Account Changes. I have not had to change my own payment options, nor have I looked into how to do it, but it seems that it should be impossible to transfer an account to another person. Lets restrict in what way payment options can be changed. I know with credit cards, there is usually a shipping address and/or telephone number that can me used to make sure the person requesting the transaction is the authorized user. Well, restrict it so that if you change your credit card number in your payment options, make sure that the new credit card has the same name and/or address information attached to it. The only serious problem I can see with this maneuver would be a grown-up child moving out of his/her parent's house and having to suddenly pay for his own subscription. Solution to that? Call support and explain the situation!
  • Heavily monitor those who party together constantly. This is more of a burden on the GMs, but an idea still. If the same people party nearly all the time (and only those people, no others), let a report be automatically generated and sent to a GM and have them analyze the character's actions. If they are found to be suspicious, flag those characters/accounts as such. Have that flag make it so that they have to call customer support if they request a change account information (specifically, payment options) and explain why they are transferring the account to a completely different person.




Now, back more on topic, I have a serious questions... I read a comment on here that the people banned were most likely reported by players who observed them doing the illegal activity. My question is, why do the players have to report a violation when it should be able to be seen and/or prevented on the servers end? A character can only go so far in an aloted amount of time. This position/time information (time would have to be sent by the client due to lag reasons) should be checked at the server level and disallow any erroneous moves.

Another question I raised while reading some of these comments and the official announcement from SE... Why is character data able to be "altered" via the client (what you, the player, sees) and/or third party tools? The client should have completely read-only control over character data, which should never be sent back to the server in any modified form. The only thing the client should send back is your actions in the game, which should have sever-side checks to prevent hacking. I say SE has screwed themselves over royally due to this. Very bad programming... Also, why isn't this data encrypted differently (assuming it is encrypted at all) each time the player logs on? This would significanly reduce the number of bots and/or cheats in the game.


Having said all of this, you may now flame away in my general direction. I'm sure I have some serious logic faults in these ideas, but no one person can see every issue that would arise out of these measures, and I would be interested in the views of others.
Somewhat Unrelated Random Thoughts on possible RMT solutions
# Sep 01 2006 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
13 posts
Haha. There is an even easier way than this.

Simply to trace the money from the gilseller who gives the money to the player, to those that give the money to that character, who sold the item, who obtained the item.

If SE were really bothered, they would even purchase gil themselves and find, without question, who is a gilseller!
lol@whiners
# Sep 01 2006 at 7:25 PM Rating: Default
If you read the ToS, you should understand by now that it plainly and blatantly states that SE reserves the right to ban your account without reason. By signing such an agreement, you forfeit all 'ownership rights' of your character to SE.

The windower is a valid problem because it, infact, is a violation to the ToS. It's like a gateway drug to other offenses. You violate it once, you are likely to do it again, regardless of any agreement. It doesn't matter if it 'sets off the games balance'. You're just as bad as the gilsellers. As for the people whining about 'Well dewdz i paid liek a gazillion dollarz to by meh PC, its liek unfairz liek dat u console gamezorz can liek go un ur laptop and teh intarweb lolololz', well, BUY A CONSOLE THAT SUPPORTS FFXI!!! It's not an unfair advantage over you, they paid to be able to do both, without breaking the ToS. Isn't it unfair to them that they had to bust out their laptop just to access the info, while you cheat and alt+tab?

Sure it's nice to know your party members' TP, but they can't see yours if they obey the rules, advantage over them. You know aggro ranges and your distance away from mob, rule abidding players do not.

Don't cry when they utilize their rights that you gave them.
lol@whiners
# Sep 01 2006 at 7:21 PM Rating: Default
If you read the ToS, you should understand by now that it plainly and blatantly states that SE reserves the right to ban your account without reason. By signing such an agreement, you forfeit all 'ownership rights' of your character to SE.

The windower is a valid problem because it, infact, is a violation to the ToS. It's like a gateway drug to other offenses. You violate it once, you are likely to do it again, regardless of any agreement. It doesn't matter if it 'sets off the games balance'. You're just as bad as the gilsellers. As for the people whining about 'Well dewdz i paid liek a gazillion dollarz to by meh PC, its liek unfairz liek dat u console gamezorz can liek go un ur laptop and teh intarweb lolololz', well, BUY A CONSOLE THAT SUPPORTS FFXI!!! It's not an unfair advantage over you, they paid to be able to do both, without breaking the ToS. Isn't it unfair to them that they had to bust out their laptop just to access the info, while you cheat and alt+tab?

Sure it's nice to know your party members' TP, but they can't see yours if they obey the rules, advantage over them. You know aggro ranges and your distance away from mob, rule abidding players do not.

Don't cry when they utilize their rights that you gave them.
lol@whiners
# Sep 01 2006 at 7:19 PM Rating: Default
If you read the ToS, you should understand by now that it plainly and blatantly states that SE reserves the right to ban your account without reason. By signing such an agreement, you forfeit all 'ownership rights' of your character to SE.

The windower is a valid problem because it, infact, is a violation to the ToS. It's like a gateway drug to other offenses. You violate it once, you are likely to do it again, regardless of any agreement. It doesn't matter if it 'sets off the games balance'. You're just as bad as the gilsellers. As for the people whining about 'Well dewdz i paid liek a gazillion dollarz to by meh PC, its liek unfairz liek dat u console gamezorz can liek go un ur laptop and teh intarweb lolololz', well, BUY A CONSOLE THAT SUPPORTS FFXI!!! It's not an unfair advantage over you, they paid to be able to do both, without breaking the ToS. Isn't it unfair to them that they had to bust out their laptop just to access the info, while you cheat and alt+tab?

Sure it's nice to know your party members' TP, but they can't see yours if they obey the rules, advantage over them. You know aggro ranges and your distance away from mob, rule abidding players do not.

Don't cry when they utilize their rights that you gave them.
lol@whiners
# Sep 01 2006 at 7:15 PM Rating: Default
If you read the ToS, you should understand by now that it plainly and blatantly states that SE reserves the right to ban your account without reason. By signing such an agreement, you forfeit all 'ownership rights' of your character to SE.

The windower is a valid problem because it, infact, is a violation to the ToS. It's like a gateway drug to other offenses. You violate it once, you are likely to do it again, regardless of any agreement. It doesn't matter if it 'sets off the games balance'. You're just as bad as the gilsellers. As for the people whining about 'Well dewdz i paid liek a gazillion dollarz to by meh PC, its liek unfairz liek dat u console gamezorz can liek go un ur laptop and teh intarweb lolololz', well, BUY A CONSOLE THAT SUPPORTS FFXI!!! It's not an unfair advantage over you, they paid to be able to do both, without breaking the ToS. Isn't it unfair to them that they had to bust out their laptop just to access the info, while you cheat and alt+tab?

Sure it's nice to know your party members' TP, but they can't see yours if they obey the rules, advantage over them. You know aggro ranges and your distance away from mob, rule abidding players do not.

Don't cry when they utilize their rights that you gave them.
lol@cheaters
# Sep 01 2006 at 7:13 PM Rating: Default
If you read the ToS, you should understand by now that it plainly and blatantly states that SE reserves the right to ban your account without reason. By signing such an agreement, you forfeit all 'ownership rights' of your character to SE.

The windower is a valid problem because it, infact, is a violation to the ToS. It's like a gateway drug to other offenses. You violate it once, you are likely to do it again, regardless of any agreement. It doesn't matter if it 'sets off the games balance'. You're just as bad as the gilsellers. As for the people whining about 'Well dewdz i paid liek a gazillion dollarz to by meh PC, its liek unfairz liek dat u console gamezorz can liek go un ur laptop and teh intarweb lolololz', well, BUY A CONSOLE THAT SUPPORTS FFXI!!! It's not an unfair advantage over you, they paid to be able to do both, without breaking the ToS. Isn't it unfair to them that they had to bust out their laptop just to access the info, while you cheat and alt+tab?

Sure it's nice to know your party members' TP, but they can't see yours if they obey the rules, advantage over them. You know aggro ranges and your distance away from mob, rule abidding players do not.

Don't cry when they utilize their rights that you gave them.
Moronic SE support.
# Sep 01 2006 at 4:26 PM Rating: Default
Oh, god don't try to call them either. There techsupport/billing/customer service is horrible. If they don't know the answer to something they flatout lie. My content ID was deleted just prior to the first and I mean "Just"

I call and ask why it was and they had the nerve to tell me I called and did it on the 25th of the prior month. Then I had to ask the obvious question. "Can I login to FFXI without a content ID." Person says "Absolutly not." Then I ask "If it was terminated on the 25th, then why could I login on the 26th, 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th and 31st? "Sir, I'm not going to play symantics with you." I respond " Isn't that a valid question?"

I suppose it's only 12 bucks a month and you do pay what you get for from those morons.

Oh, as far as the TOS, if they can lie to me about my account than the TOS can go to **** and I'll do whatever the heck I want with my own computer.

SE go sit on a RUSTY NAIL!!!!!!
Um
# Sep 01 2006 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
Why not just introduce a gil cap? No one is able to hold on one character more than x amount of gil. I don't think it's necessary for anyone to have 100, 80, 40 etc million gil. Now a lot of people would be/are against this idea; people who have earned all of their gil the hard/honest way, people who buy gil and have wasted tons of real money on it, gilsellers and the simply wealthy. If perhaps SE introduced a modest salary system for completing rank missions for nations(as mentioned before), more people would work harder on their rank, enjoy the stories that the game has to offer, and be able to afford silent oils, invisible powders, ninja tools, food, etc. But aside from the salary concept, no one could have over let's say 10M gil to be very modest, if a gil cap were implemented. Or SE could make more items R/E, like pop items in sky, where gilsellers have been spreading like a virus. Gilsellers won't try to hack to claim NMs if all they drop are R/E items. Of course there would be inherent problems with these systems, such as what to do with any items posted on AH which are posted for more than the newly introduced gil cap, or what to do with player's wallets which contain more gil than the cap allows upon initialization. Also making items R/E wouldn't deter non-RMT players not to use hacks to get the items that they want. I feel that every problem has a solution though, and even if these proposed solutions aren't entirely feasible, I don't think banning or suspending 1,400 accounts works all too well either, considering the number of players as a whole who play FFXI.

As for using windower, I personally can't because I play on a console, but if I played on my PC I feel as though I would want to use a windowing program, for the sake of convenience - Though I would be breaking the rules of TOS and defeating my own suggestions as to how to solve the problem of hacking/RMT. But then again I play with people who use windower and prefer them telling me when to SC rather than both of us having to "call" back and forth to one another. As well it is nice for some people to tell me when to back up or where to run as not to get aggro. So even now on a console I get to enjoy the lazyman's benefits of third party software. How to solve this problem? I'm not sure. I don't know too much about PCs and hacking, but I would assume SE would have to release it's own licensed software which would provide users with the same, if not better experience as a program like windower offers. Or perhaps upgrade their security to prevent any alien software to begin with. The biggest problem is inflation as a result of RMT/third party software, I think. This is the only reason I thought maybe a gil cap would work, but I'm probably wrong. lol. There are good people and bad people everywhere you go.
windower
# Sep 01 2006 at 2:03 PM Rating: Default
To people that complain about how its unfair for PC users to have a windower and consoles dont..
This arguement is not valid at all. Why? 1. because consoles cant have multiple programs running at the same time so a windower would be pointless. It's not playing favorites, it's just a fact; you knew this when you bought a console. 2. I did not build my own PC for people to tell me that I can only play games on it like a console (I am completely against modifing gameplay) but being able to check on background applications is a function avaible to 99% of PC games/programs.


If you dont like it build a PC and enjoy better better resolution, more options in perifials, and the ability to play while checking the net or whatever.
windower
# Sep 01 2006 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
21 posts
I play on both pc and ps2. I have no complaints about peeps using windower. SE complaint with rmt's is they hate the compition. they have there own rmt's that they pay to get the gil. if you do not work for them you get removed and sight that your braking the rules, when they themself are doing it just to make more cash off of you the player. so get an edge on them your out. yes I have confermation of this. so the rmts you see on your servers after an exspelltion of rmt's, thats because they work for SE. as long as you pay for gil, your going to have to deal with rmts, stop paying for gil and there will be no reson for rmts. want to drive prices down at ah do not buy the items, wiat for them to come down, then there would be no reson for buying gil now would there. no reson to buy gil, takes out the rmts. so intill you all are ready to ban together do this as a whole, there will always be rmts working for SE. think about it. why would they have gil selling sites linked to there own Homepage.
I aggree with the player about money talks. stop giving them the cash they will make changes. we are supporting them not the other way around.

stay frosty,
Sea
agreed
# Sep 01 2006 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
25 posts
-----Exactly----- i do agree with the rules... but SE doesnt relize now a days how many programs have automatic pop up ( what you want me to delete my virus protection.. or **** i have even been kicked from a windows update popup... ) granted oyu can not do it on the other systems.. but a PS2 or a xbox360 ( which DOES alow popups without causing a connection lost ), the PC has built in programs that nither of the 2 consoles does.... so yes there should be a way to loose fullscreen and keep playing
pros and cons
# Sep 01 2006 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
25 posts
ook i give up second time it posted in wrong area


Edited, Sep 1st 2006 at 12:56pm EDT by Jickson
pros and cons
# Sep 01 2006 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
25 posts
sorry it posted in the wrong spot

Edited, Sep 1st 2006 at 12:54pm EDT by Jickson
Read this
# Sep 01 2006 at 4:55 AM Rating: Decent
*
173 posts
Let me play a violin for all you people, seriously it doesnt matter, follow the rules and you wont get banned, until then, just tell SE about what sh*t their doing wrong, if we stopped playing, they would start changing, or they'd just call it quits. :) If there were a massive boycott to say WoW, FFXI, Or EQ2 things would happen real fast.

Lets do some math kids, 1 character = 12.95 x 12 months = 155.40 from one person...

so lets say that there is 500k (i think that was its peak if i do believe) individual people with accounts = 77,700,000 million dollars.... and going into its 4 or 5 year makes this grand total 388,500,000 (im assuming this is the 5th year) this is alot of money folks, and i know SE invested in the future when they made this game, so let your money do the talking if you want some changes.

Edited, Sep 1st 2006 at 5:57am EDT by devildrifterX
____________________________
For those that are lonely
AkiraTenken wrote:
1. sit alone in the dark

2. turn on your favorite 80s ballad

3. weep

4. make a sock into a puppet

5. talk to your sock and ask it why you can't get a party

6. weep

7. eat chocolate

8. call up your best friend and tell them how you don't really need a party anyways

9. weep
An Arguement Against Windower
# Sep 01 2006 at 3:47 AM Rating: Decent
*
53 posts
Okay, I'm probably going to get rated down to nothing for this, but here goes: All of you saying that there is nothing wrong with using Windower are Wrong! You say that it does 'harmless' things like let you know what your party's TP is, which you should know anyways. I agree that you should know your party's TP, I do at all times, but I use a slighlty different method. I ask them to tell me when they're TP is at 100 or better. They set up a macro that lets everyone know, something like this: /p {Warrior} TP <tp>
It's pretty easy and doesn't break any rules. Any person who can't be bothered with little things like communication and group coordination is someone I won't be grouping with for very long.

And concerning this distance gauge thingy. I've never used Windower, but if this thing does what I think it does, then it is giving it's users a humungously unfair adventage (read Cheating). All enemies agro on you, in part, based on distance. A goblin looking right at you won't 'see' you at a certain distance, but one step closer and bang, you are fighting an angry gob. If you always know what your distance is, then you can always avoid this agro. People without this cheat have to use skill to stay out of the agro range, they have to develope a sense of the monster's distance, and people using Windower never have to bother with any of this, they just read a number on their screen.

And finally, being able to play the game in a window. Someone brought out a great point, that people playing on consoles do not have that option of playing in a window and letting people on computers play that way would be playing favorites. Also, playing in a window would allow for playing on multiple accounts at the same time, something people were saying that RTMs do already and we kind of hate them for it.

I appologize for my condescending tone, but I was reading all these post and became very irritated by the people trying to justify their reasons for cheating. I'm not saying that you shouldn't use Windower if you really want to, all of you were right when saying that SE will never catch you unless you advertise. All I'm saying is don't try to justify your cheating by saying SE should provide all these things for you. Especially when they DO provide you with a way to know enemy distance and your party's TP, but you just don't want to bother doing it their way.
____________________________
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The Original Wild Oat.

That's right, I'm the one who taught all the Mandragoras in Vana'diel my secret move for enticing the ladies. You're Welcome :D
An Arguement Against Windower
# Sep 01 2006 at 3:54 AM Rating: Decent
*
53 posts
Okay, I'm probably going to get rated down to nothing for this, but here goes: All of you saying that there is nothing wrong with using Windower are Wrong! You say that it does 'harmless' things like let you know what your party's TP is, which you should know anyways. I agree that you should know your party's TP, I do at all times, but I use a slighlty different method. I ask them to tell me when they're TP is at 100 or better. They set up a macro that lets everyone know, something like this: /p {Warrior} TP <tp>
It's pretty easy and doesn't break any rules. Any person who can't be bothered with little things like communication and group coordination is someone I won't be grouping with for very long.

And concerning this distance gauge thingy. I've never used Windower, but if this thing does what I think it does, then it is giving it's users a humungously unfair adventage (read Cheating). All enemies agro on you, in part, based on distance. A goblin looking right at you won't 'see' you at a certain distance, but one step closer and bang, you are fighting an angry gob. If you always know what your distance is, then you can always avoid this agro. People without this cheat have to use skill to stay out of the agro range, they have to develope a sense of the monster's distance, and people using Windower never have to bother with any of this, they just read a number on their screen.

And finally, being able to play the game in a window. Someone brought out a great point, that people playing on consoles do not have that option of playing in a window and letting people on computers play that way would be playing favorites. Also, playing in a window would allow for playing on multiple accounts at the same time, something people were saying that RTMs do already and we kind of hate them for it.

I appologize for my condescending tone, but I was reading all these post and became very irritated by the people trying to justify their reasons for cheating. I'm not saying that you shouldn't use Windower if you really want to, all of you were right when saying that SE will never catch you unless you advertise. All I'm saying is don't try to justify your cheating by saying SE should provide all these things for you. Especially when they DO provide you with a way to know enemy distance and your party's TP, but you just don't want to bother doing it their way.
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An Arguement Against Windower
# Sep 02 2006 at 12:03 AM Rating: Decent
2 posts
two words --FULSCREEN ERROR-- if SE had made the god___n game able to survive an antivirus update or even a windows update, the windower would have about 1/8 the people it currently has, when I play, I use windower, and I use the clock plugin, that is all, no TP watch, no distance (even thought I am a 75 rng), and no aggro distance. if SE wants me to stop using windower, they had better fix --The game has encountered a fullscreen error and will not close.--
An Arguement Against Windower
# Sep 01 2006 at 11:57 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
two words --FULSCREEN ERROR-- if SE had made the god___n game able to survive an antivirus update or even a windows update, the windower would have about 1/8 the people it currently has, when I play, I use windower, and I use the clock plugin, that is all, no TP watch, no distance (even thought I am a 75 rng), and no aggro distance. if SE wants me to stop using windower, they had better fix --The game has encountered a fullscreen error and will not close.--
An Arguement Against Windower
# Sep 01 2006 at 3:11 PM Rating: Default
*
107 posts
Windower Lite = no plug-ins, only a window... cheating still? I think just a convience of being able to check things like Missions, crafts, FFXI-Atlas, etc. I have 4 pc's and a laptop and I still think running windowed is 100x easier than switching between pc's constantly. I would play on my ps2 but the graphics are terrible compared to my ATI 9800 XT Pro :)
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An Arguement Against Windower
# Sep 01 2006 at 3:43 AM Rating: Decent
*
53 posts
My first double post :(

Edited, Sep 1st 2006 at 5:01am EDT by Captainoats
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That's right, I'm the one who taught all the Mandragoras in Vana'diel my secret move for enticing the ladies. You're Welcome :D
Printer?
# Sep 01 2006 at 3:05 AM Rating: Decent
21 posts
Ok, lets say that someone who plays on PC DOESN'T HAVE a printer? The solution is to go BUY one? Windower is free, ink isn't. I play on PS2, but if I had it on PC you bet your midget flavored galkan sausage I'd play with Windower.. The thought of logging out to do.. EVERYTHING is stupid... Some of you kids should think about what the words "Multi Tasking" mean. I used to write the code for my website while camping Huu Mjuu and voice chatting on YIM.


Hook, line, sinker. Pwnt.


And SE is bullsh*t anyway. They only ban legit players.
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Printer?
# Sep 02 2006 at 3:31 PM Rating: Default
Hmmm... lets see... the likelyhood of the scenario you presented exists, ill give ya that. However, lets ask ourselves a couple questions. What is someone doing with a computer capable of playing the game and no printer? Sounds like the same kinda person that would have $2000 rims on a $500 car. HOOD RICH! This particular example sounds like someone that should have bought a console in the first place >.> If playing the game was your primary focus (even though it shouldnt be but is for many) lets analyze: computer cost + monitor > console+TV+2 yrs of POL service+ a PSP for those gawd awful family vacations;;. Whats the more practical decision? The more likely scenario would be someone who plays on a console and doesnt have a computer. Hmmm...? Think about that. How does that particular situation compare? I think SE developed the game with the idea of making it uniform across the board in as many respects as possible. So out of RESPECT & CONSIDERATION for our less fortunate gaming companions we do not use 3rd party tools. You hear it all the time... "it will upset the games balance" BALANCE IS KEY. Those of us with no computer at home, dont even have access to TOD information from forums for the NM you casually camp killing time with your IM. I used to have to actually walk to work, a mile and a half away, if my wife was using the car, and get mission info. On top of this fact, printing from work was not allowed. So explain to me, whilst i retrospectively imagine myself walking ,1.5 miles each way in 90+ degree florida weather with 5 pages of notes on AF quests and info on sky schedules for the next week crammed into my pocket, why i should sympathize with your dilemma? On a lighter note, times are better nowadays. I now have a Laptop quite capable of playing the game, but i still play on a console (360), have no desire to play on PC, no desire to buy gil, no desire to use program mods (except maybe summoning skill >.>; 239 au natural!), and posess no sympathy for those who leverage their platform's capabilities advantageously over others and get banned. whew long sentence. As for the "i like to talk to my friends whilst i camp" on my preferred IM service argument, I say this: there are thousands of people on every server each with /tell receiving capabilities... make some friends you rule breaking monkey! bad monkey, bad!
Printer?
# Sep 12 2006 at 3:12 PM Rating: Default
lol the printer guy have a valid comment i my self have 5 computers 1 desktop and 4 laptops... no printer and guess what i still swear by windower for the ease of letting me download movies/music/ other games betas. while im sitting in sky waiting for people to show up. i also multi box witch i have done on a windower instead. i needed a raise and i have access to a 75 Whm i think ill walk 15 minute to the ship to get my server comp, unplug it and walk 15 minutes back spend 50 bucks getting that computer internet access for a month and then wait 15 minutes to boot it up + ffxi... or i can just load up a second window and get it done NOW. its nice to have the option to USE my computers as they where ment to be instead of not..

some people do not have a house that they can call their own and need more flexable options rather than having to alt tab getting a full screen error just so they can respond to an instant message from their girlfriend.
Scripts
# Aug 31 2006 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
**
523 posts
.

Edited, Sep 1st 2006 at 12:48am EDT by FallenZyon
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Scripts
# Aug 31 2006 at 11:39 PM Rating: Default
**
523 posts
Even if they add in Windower, I'll still use archbell, because 6 line macros are much too short.
____________________________
Redshift - Mithra
Pandemonium
WAR75(TP/WS) 70BLM DRK61 THF60 NIN47
4/5WAR AF2(All but body), 1/5BLM AF2 (Body)
Bonecraft 100+3, Leathercraft 60+1, Alchemy 60
Sky LS - NinthCircle Member
Dynamis LS - Epidemic Leader
Time
# Aug 31 2006 at 11:16 PM Rating: Decent
38 posts
Well, my thinking is, that this Game need much Time to be something in this special nice Game. To get some Items for his own Interess, you need Money(Gil).For some Players like me who got Family, it take to much Time (Camp NM/ obtaining KS & BS / or make some Mission's and Quest's what taking 8h and your Wife behind you is boiling because of this ^^) So they use this Tools (not me ) to get a lil bit faster.There are Players too, who have not the nerv's to wait so long because the never lern to wait a bit(that are there own Problem's, not my).
RMT should never be able
Spawns of NM's, for the Drops, should be a lil bit faster.
Exp should be a little bit higher than around 200-300, maybe 500^^
Crafting Skill should rise a lil bit faster><

Maybe SE should progarm some special Item's like (Lightspeed Boots)to get so fast like this Cactus NM in East o. West Altepa for example ^^ i like his Dust behind him, want that too -^,

Warp Gudgel and instand warp II whas a good Idea.

But what happen when all got LVL.75 so fast ? All quit or SE programm LVL- 100 Oo ?




Edited, Sep 1st 2006 at 12:53am EDT by Trunksmidg
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Why they dont want people to use a windower? Simple
# Aug 31 2006 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
13 posts
What is the main reason people would use a windower for? For final fantasy? To find out stuff about the game. Because, lets face it, a lot of the people are pretty unhelpful at times, afk, etc and so on. Now. Your choices are that you either download every page you could possibly need when it gets updated everyday, or log off and check every time you need something

Or!!!!

Buy their guide!

Touché.
RMT problem growing?
# Aug 31 2006 at 5:11 PM Rating: Default
Last night in the boyahda tree (sp?) on midgardsrmor I must have bumped into 6 to 8 rmt partys exping off varrious things in the zone.
I have never seen such an influx before and I often spend time there leveling my npc and skilling up off the steel shells ect...

In all the time I have played this game I have yet to bump into so many rmt groups in a single day... earlyer in the Crawlers nest I bumped into a beastmaster party of rmt also. (5 bst all /anon with one ranger named Bigwaves) it was really strange to see so many sheep and crabs.. lol

I suppose SE missed these guys when they banned all the others lol

the only thing I might be able to say we can catch these guys on is that they clearly play multiple accounts at one time.... imho this update rather meaningless to me after what I have seen myself yesterday..
RMT problem growing?
# Aug 31 2006 at 5:07 PM Rating: Default
Last night in the boyahda tree (sp?) on midgardsrmor I must have bumped into 6 to 8 rmt partys exping off varrious things in the zone.
I have never seen such an influx before and I often spend time there leveling my npc and skilling up off the steel shells ect...

In all the time I have played this game I have yet to bump into so many rmt groups in a single day... earlyer in the Crawlers nest I bumped into a beastmaster party of rmt also. (5 bst all /anon with one ranger named Bigwaves) it was really strange to see so many sheep and crabs.. lol

I suppose SE missed these guys when they banned all the others lol

the only thing I might be able to say we can catch these guys on is that they clearly play multiple accounts at one time.... imho this update is rather meaningless to me after what I have seen myself yesterday..
RMT problem growing?
# Aug 31 2006 at 5:03 PM Rating: Default
Last night in the boyahda tree (sp?) on midgardsrmor I must have bumped into 6 to 8 rmt partys exping off varrious things in the zone.
I have never seen such an influx before and I often spend time there leveling my npc and skilling up off the steel shells ect...

In all the time I have played this game I have yet to bump into so many rmt groups in a single day... earlyer in the Crawlers nest I bumped into a beastmaster party of rmt also. (5 bst all /anon with one ranger named Bigwaves) it was really strange to see so many sheep and crabs.. lol

I suppose SE missed these guys when they banned all the others lol

the only thing I might be able to say we can catch these guys on is that they clearly play multiple accounts at one time.... imho this update rather meaningless to me after what I have seen myself yesterday..
Idiots
# Aug 31 2006 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
**
260 posts
Quote:
As for the Windower, When is S.E. gonna make their Windower that allows you to run the game in Windower enviroment but doesnt have the hacks of PT member TP and Distance to Target. If they made these and released them, there wouldnt be any issue then with this.


You are an idiot. Why would they make this? When did they ever say they were going to make this? They never said they were.

You agreed to the TOS before you ever stepped foot in Vana'Diel. If you did not agree you should have not checked the box. This is not an issue for SE because they never said they were going to create such a thing and they do not support such a thing. It is only an issue for people who use it, even though it is against the rules to do so. If people would follow the rules, no one would be banned. Would you complain to the Board of Education if you failed the SAT because you used an ink pen? Clearly states to use a #2 pencil.

I say ban all the idiots that use any type of third party application. The TOS clearly states they are not to be used. Your fault. Grow up.

I wish you good luck with the HR Department when you grow up and get a real job. "Sir, jeans are not acceptable in our office. {Pink Slip}{That's Too Bad...}
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"Yup and if you die because I'm having to open up the menu to pass quickly rather than having all the **** dumped on me then you're getting r1 buddy."
Idiots
# Aug 31 2006 at 7:23 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
45 posts
Wow. simply put, you need to take a pill. even tho you might think this person is an "idiot", that doesnt mean they know exactly what you yourself know. your point was made, and in a respectful and diplomatic reply (witch is whats acceptable on this site) you could have just said "Read the TOS man" or something less harsh. and SE is only banning people who are using "3rd party software for mallicious intent". knowing what a partners TP is in an EXP pt so you can SC with them is not walking thru walls or claim stealing before the mobs have spawned. ppl who use running hacks and the like SHOULD be banned, i agree. but lets take a different scenario. do you think the US government is going to give a homeless guy a death scentance for eating food from a grocery store while "shopping" because he hasnt eaten a single thing in a week?

would you want to have someone banned for accessing the game's Registry to improve resolution to 2024x2024? (btw, the resolution rewrite in windows registry is NOT against SEs TOS.) but its still using 3rd pt software to manipulate the game, want them banned too? before you flame, drink some water, watch some TV, and then coem back with a diplomatic reply. its just polite.
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Idiots
# Aug 31 2006 at 7:08 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
You are an idiot. Why would they make this?


Simple, to keep their users, less users = less money.

Quote:
When did they ever say they were going to make this?


They never said they where gonng to let you raise a chocobo or race one until they announced it. There are alot of things in the game that where not there in the beginnning, and no one knew they would make it, until SE said they where.

Some of the new things in the game where not added until SE listened to the users, and decided to do it.

Quote:
Would you complain to the Board of Education if you failed the SAT because you used an ink pen? Clearly states to use a #2 pencil.


Quote:
I wish you good luck with the HR Department when you grow up and get a real job. "Sir, jeans are not acceptable in our office. {Pink Slip}{That's Too Bad...}


Both of these scenarios have nothing to do with this game, if you use a pen on your SAT that's too bad, take it again in pencil. As for dress code in the work place, it varies by work place.

But in SE's case, they want you to stay around and play their game (look at how long it takes to raise a chocobo), not to be fed up with the game and leave. They added expansions, and other things to the game, all in the pursuit of keeping you around.

Quote:
You agreed to the TOS before you ever stepped foot in Vana'Diel.


This is true, and yes, if you get banned for breaking it, or suspended, that's fine, you knew the risks. But TOS aside, everytime SE breaks the windower, the web site to download it at goes down because of the number of people trying to download the latest version, this would tend to indicate that it is a desired ability for a good number of people.

Finally, to the people that are happy with printng out guides, and other FAQs walkthroughs, etc to play FFXI, if it works for you, that's great. Now I have no problem with planning ahead before I log into the game, and printing off a map if I absolutly need it, or asking LS members for information.

However, most people do not find it very economical to print off every quest or map they need information because ink is very expensive. If Brady or some other company published an up to date guide (hopefully one that doesn't suck), it would be in alot of peoples interest to pick up the guide and spare their ink. After all 1 black in cartridge is $27 or higher, 1 color cartridge is $30 or higher (both of which last about 500 pages), and you will go through both printing off the contents of 1 guide from Brady, while the guide from Brady is $20.

Say you have a laser printer, fine, you won't got through much toner, a cartridge can handle 1500 to 9000 pages depending on it's size, and it will be cheaper, however, most people do not have a laser printer.

You are already spending $12.95 or higher depending on the number of characters you have, why spend more on the game. Sure, there are times when you need to print something out, but I should not have to print out something that is equivalent to an entire game guide in the end because I cannot alt tab, or I don't have a second computer to look up information on while playing.
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Idiots
# Sep 01 2006 at 12:56 PM Rating: Default
This guy is a prick, what a ****
??
# Aug 31 2006 at 4:40 PM Rating: Default
no offense... but on the topic of "no windower = inconvenience" ... i recommend picking up a really handy machine its kinda cool and i dont think there are any restrictions on using it... its called a printer you dumb **** stop being lazy and make ur own **** strat guide. DYMINH SERAPH LV 73 SMN
warp bot
# Aug 31 2006 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
43 posts
okay exactly what does a warp bot do.. always been curious about this.. do u just pick a spot and it sends u to like the outpost or do u become invisibile and go up in the air and travel at light speed and come down wherever you want or wut.... I think it would actually be sorta neat to have that instead of dragging your **** to the op warps all the time... any hands on anonymous specific info / links to a REAL video of a warp bot would be cool.

thanks
warp bot
# Aug 31 2006 at 3:48 PM Rating: Default
With a such program u can move to exacte coordination u gave in befor ( saved as a place near zone for exemple). then when u hit the "ok" u will aper there, its instant, u won't "fly in the air".

When some programmer started with such programs they were able to move through zones ( Bastok->Valkrum) but SE fix it very fast...

I'm sorry but i don't know where to find a video.. only the program it self :D
warp bot
# Aug 31 2006 at 3:42 PM Rating: Default
With a such program u can move to exacte coordination u gave in befor ( saved as a place near zone for exemple). then when u hit the "ok" u will aper there, its instant, u won't "fly in the air".
When some programmer started with such programs they were able to move through zones ( Bastok->Valkrum) but SE fix it very fast...
I'm sorry but i don't know where to find a video.. only the program it self :D
warp bot
# Aug 31 2006 at 3:53 PM Rating: Default
-.- now i know why ppl double post ... and i can't even edit caus it's anonymus lol
asdf
# Aug 31 2006 at 12:19 PM Rating: Default
gilsellers still on hades, legit players banned.
gooood job SE.
ya know, i made get booed for this...
# Aug 31 2006 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
but windower isnt necessary! Go look up stuff on your free time when your not playing. i personally am on PS2 ver. so i dont have the luxury of windower. if your stuck LFP, go make a sandwich, turn on your ps2 and play a game or 2(i have 2 so i split my time playing other stuff). and i doubt anyone noticed the part in the SE post about windower allowing for hackers to jump on your computer while your playing and Fuzzle! with your character(ive been hearing accounts of this happening nowadays, dont know if its true, but it can happen on any other program on your computer so why not this!) bottom line; play like you mean it and stop "depending" on a program that gives you a slight edge in-game.
BTW: i forgot my allakhazam password and im too lazy to look it up lol.
Brahms- Ifrit Server (c ~_^)--b
"abnormal in-game movement"
# Aug 31 2006 at 10:04 AM Rating: Default
I guess ( and i'm sure) that they only banned ppl are user of programms who make them move faster...
I got my self banned :s even if that wasn't the use of a third-party tools ( ther is an other way ;D).
Why i think it's only that? Cause SE can't find out that u pos haxx or use Windower unless someone call a GM.
now waiting my 72h to pass that restart play ^^ but i think i will stop use this kind of programs ( even if i don't know how they find out i did it ... )
Btw from the 1.400 near all are regular player i think ( maybe wome Mining RMT)
I Think People are Missing the Point...
# Aug 31 2006 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
31 posts
Ok...In case you forgot...

1) SquareSoft (now SquareEnix) originally created Final Fantasy to allow us to challenge our mind and escape to another world. God bless them for that.

2) RPG's are meant to be trial and error. They are NOT meant to be, "I'm too lazy to figure it out on my own so I'm going to look at the information online." With that point said, of course SE wants to make it, what some people call chore, to have to log off and search for information (or in some cases employ a "windower.") They want you to figure it out for yourself. I'm sure a large number of the original Beta testers that still play the game today remember the days when they had no clue what to expect and how much fun it was. I do admit that I too have looked information up online, but by no means do I blame SE for me having to log out to do so.

3) ALL ONLINE GAMES HAVE CHEATERS AND HACKERS PERIOD. BUT, a program such as a windower be it one from SE or third party still allows for hacking (and you are crazy if you think this is the only game that has these problems.)

4) FFXI is on multiple platforms. People keep mentioning that WoW has and windower and this has a windower and that has a windower, but of all the games I've seen mentioned, none of them are on nor have been on multiple platforms. Of course WoW has a windower built into it as does Guild Wars (yes I actually played that)...those are only on PC. SE will not put a windower because it would be unfair to the players on XB360 and PS2 that do not have the ability to do that. SE is trying to keep it uniform on all platforms (this also makes it easier for them come update time.)

5) Since the last mass action taken by SE against violators of the FFXI User Agreement there has been a steady decline in the prices of some more higher priced pieces of equipment. However human greed still exists (the new Chocobo raising event is proof. The wildgrass that cures Chocobo sickness can only be grown. People that know this take advantage of it and this makes it harder for people that can't spend 100k every two days to cure their Chocobo.)

6) Rules are rules. Laws are laws. Regardless of intent. (a Chief Magistrate once told me that. In case you were wondering a Chief Magistrate is a judge that is in charge or higher up than all of the judges in a particular county in a state.)
I Think People are Missing the Point...
# Aug 31 2006 at 8:45 PM Rating: Default
glad to say your mistaken the grass is also droped i could tell you where and by what but then id have to kill you :)
I Think People are Missing the Point...
# Sep 01 2006 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
31 posts
The Tokopekko Wildgrass can only be grown. You have to purchase the seeds that yield this item from an NPC in Aht Urhgan Whitegate. The Tokopekko Wildgrass is specifically asked for by the Chocobo raising NPC. However the Gausebit Wildgrass is dropped off mobs, but this is not the item requested by the Chocobo raising NPC. So next time you try to make other people look stupid make sure you're not making yourself look stupid first.
Glad to see you're an idiot.
# Sep 01 2006 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
31 posts
~see above~

Edited, Sep 1st 2006 at 12:40pm EDT by thezeffect
I Think People are Missing the Point...
# Aug 31 2006 at 9:16 AM Rating: Decent
**
731 posts
People who play using a PS2 and a TV can actually watch TV shows when logged on... So it's unfair because I can't do that... I wanna be able to use my PC, because they're able to use their TVs while playing.

Or they can make it so you can't switch channels while logged on.

Peace~
____________________________
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I Think People are Missing the Point...
# Sep 01 2006 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
31 posts
So you're telling me that you don't have a television...but you have a computer. Somehow I find that very hard to believe. Ever since the early 1980's 90% of American households have at least one television. Over 70% of households with one television have at least one more (thats 2 people.)I play on PC and also watch television at the same time. However people that use PS2 or XB360 have to switch away from their screen in order to do this. So in a sense PC users already have an advantage over PS2 and XB360 users because PC users don't have to change their screen from FFXI to watch TV, they just have to turn their heads (or their eyes more specifically.)
I Think People are Missing the Point...
# Sep 05 2006 at 2:10 AM Rating: Decent
he's saying that people who play on ps2 can change from video1 or whatever back to their cable stations while LFP or bazaaring, but he can't use his computer for other things while lfp or bazaaring
I Think People are Missing the Point...
# Aug 31 2006 at 8:38 PM Rating: Default
lol ^
I Think People are Missing the Point...
# Aug 31 2006 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
31 posts
Ok...In case you forgot...

1) SquareSoft (now SquareEnix) originally created Final Fantasy to allow us to challenge our mind and escape to another world. God bless them for that.

2) RPG's are meant to be trial and error. They are NOT meant to be, "I'm too lazy to figure it out on my own so I'm going to look at the information online." With that point said, of course SE wants to make it, what some people call chore, to have to log off and search for information (or in some cases employ a "windower.") They want you to figure it out for yourself. I'm sure a large number of the original Beta testers that still play the game today remember the days when they had no clue what to expect and how much fun it was. I do admit that I too have looked information up online, but by no means do I blame SE for me having to log out to do so.

3) ALL ONLINE GAMES HAVE CHEATERS AND HACKERS PERIOD. BUT, a program such as a windower be it one from SE or third party still allows for hacking (and you are crazy if you think this is the only game that has these problems.)

4) FFXI is on multiple platforms. People keep mentioning that WoW has and windower and this has a windower and that has a windower, but of all the games I've seen mentioned, none of them are on nor have been on multiple platforms. Of course WoW has a windower built into it as does Guild Wars (yes I actually played that)...those are only on PC. SE will not put a windower because it would be unfair to the players on XB360 and PS2 that do not have the ability to do that. SE is trying to keep it uniform on all platforms (this also makes it easier for them come update time.)

5) Since the last mass action taken by SE against violators of the FFXI User Agreement there has been a steady decline in the prices of some more higher priced pieces of equipment. However human greed still exists (the new Chocobo raising event is proof. The wildgrass that cures Chocobo sickness can only be grown. People that know this take advantage of it and this makes it harder for people that can't spend 100k every two days to cure their Chocobo.)

6) Rules are rules. Laws are laws. Regardless of intent. (a Chief Magistrate once told me that. In case you were wondering a Chief Magistrate is a judge that is in charge or higher up than all of the judges in a particular county in a state.)
Thanks!
# Aug 31 2006 at 3:03 AM Rating: Default
For those of you using windower and some of the passive plug-ins (like TP for pt members, distance plug-in). All these do is take info that SE sends out to the running FF program and translate it for you. The difference between this and the botting hacks/plug-ins, is they actively modify information that you send.

The only way SE could know if you were using just the windower, is if they hacked into your computer or you shouted in Jeuno 'Yay! I love to use my windower' Eventually, they could create some kind of validation protocol, like microsoft's genuine advantage *barf*. But until then, you don't need to worry about being banned for windower as long as you don't advertise it.

And to mr. hiel hitler, rules are rules,

There is a huge difference between using a windower so you can talk to someone over IM versus actually creating a bot or using a warp hack. Yes, technically ppl who use windower are violating the EULA, but a stupid rule is a stupid rule.

You should be able to see your parties TP. You should be able to talk to ppl on IM while waiting for a PT for hours. In fact, Microsoft vehemently suggests that all programs on windows should be tabbable. Finally, You should be able to know when your next BP is up even if zomg, you don't have carbie up. Using windower doesn't affect you or SE in the least. It just makes it so that they can enjoy the game a little more.

Finally, like the gentleman said above, if SE had the simple ability to tab implemented the majority of ppl who use a windower wouldn't be using a windower.
Thanks!
# Aug 31 2006 at 6:30 AM Rating: Decent
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**** TP, **** Bloodpact timer... all I want is that the game continues to run despite Windows XP and Norton automatic update messages occuring while playing...

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Hey ho, hey ho. RMT has got to go!
# Aug 31 2006 at 2:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Last time 2000 accounts were banned.
This time it's 1400.

RMT must be using a version of FF XI with an automatic bamstick attached ;)

I forsee another wave of subless parties clogging the leveling areas in the next few weeks...

RMT companies make a filthy amount of money with MMORPG games, but repeated bannings like this will cost them a lot. New accounts have to be bought, characters have to be leveled, and all that time there will be reduce gil flowing into their stockades... Bad business for RMT, good business for us!


Way to go, SE!
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"Puppetmaster was our last best hope for peace. It failed.
Now it's our last best hope.. for victory!"
Why they don't ban every gil seller
# Aug 31 2006 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
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134 posts
There's one huge conflict of error when it comes to SE and the RMT.

There are hundreds, maybe thousand of gilsellers. That's hundreds or thousands of people paying their 12 bux a month... Can't ban all of them, bad for business.

I wouldn't be surprised if IGE was paying a little extra to SE not to have their players booted.
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Good work SE
# Aug 31 2006 at 12:45 AM Rating: Decent
FINALLY they have started to eliminate the botters. Gusgen mines has 1/2 of the "miners" it used to have in it. This is good since i depend on mining to supplement my income and consequentially if im being outrun, outmined, and being run in front by a mine bot my money is gonna be pretty bad. Btw for all you people who dont understand why se baned windower ill take a look at a game of the past Diablo 2. How many people used maphack (even i did) BUT look what mephistobot, pindlebot, and baalbot do. they made it so they never had to play and they got the most uber items BTW to sell RMT style. Now how did you run those you alt tabbed and the program rand diablo 2 in a "windower" sound familiar.
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about god $$$$ time
# Aug 31 2006 at 12:37 AM Rating: Decent
finally the speedhacking gusgen mine bots are starting to disappear. this is good because i hate being outclaimed by an infinate flee mining bot. keep up the good work SE
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...
# Aug 30 2006 at 11:31 PM Rating: Default
shouldn't the news really say...

"Today we here at Square Enix have brought in the next round of Interns to help work in our Alternitive Division. These people will help run the Cash for Gil program, commonly known as "Real Money Trading (RMT)". We wish our previous group of 1400 interns the best of luck in their future endevoures."

*******************************************************************************

As for the Windower, When is S.E. gonna make their Windower that allows you to run the game in Windower enviroment but doesnt have the hacks of PT member TP and Distance to Target. If they made these and released them, there wouldnt be any issue then with this.


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Nickademus
Rank 10 San D'Oria..

Dead Horse, meet the beating stick
# Aug 30 2006 at 11:27 PM Rating: Default
shouldn't the news really say...

"Today we here at Square Enix have brought in the next round of Interns to help work in our Alternitive Division. These people will help run the Cash for Gil program, commonly known as "Real Money Trading (RMT)". We wish our previous group of 1400 interns the best of luck in their future endevoures."

*******************************************************************************

As for the Windower, When is S.E. gonna make their Windower that allows you to run the game in Windower enviroment but doesnt have the hacks of PT member TP and Distance to Target. If they made these and released them, there wouldnt be any issue then with this.


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Nickademus
Rank 10 San D'Oria..

Dead Horse, Meet the beating stick.....
# Aug 30 2006 at 11:26 PM Rating: Default
shouldn't the news really say...

"Today we here at Square Enix have brought in the next round of Interns to help work in our Alternitive Division. These people will help run the Cash for Gil program, commonly known as "Real Money Trading (RMT)". We wish our previous group of 1400 interns the best of luck in their future endevoures."

*******************************************************************************

As for the Windower, When is S.E. gonna make their Windower that allows you to run the game in Windower enviroment but doesnt have the hacks of PT member TP and Distance to Target. If they made these and released them, there wouldnt be any issue then with this.



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Nickademus
Rank 10 San D'Oria..

what a suprise
# Aug 30 2006 at 10:17 PM Rating: Decent
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what a suprise.. on ragnarok

/sea all andysr
/sea all dsl
/sea all peterlu

those are our resident haxxing gilsellers. Strange, they seem to be banning tons of legit players over RMT players.

I say this.. Forget about the 3rd party programs for a bit, and focus on the RMT players. Just a thought.
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what a suprise
# Aug 31 2006 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Forget about the 3rd party programs for a bit, and focus on the RMT players. Just a thought.


<Yes, please.>
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kill this horse one more time
# Aug 30 2006 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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630 posts
im begiing to think that they arent closing accounts simply for using a windower if all youre doing is just alt tabing.

moreover, it doesnt seem like account closure is much of a deterrent given the amount of people whose accounts have been closed since SE has started this 'war on thirdparty users' crusade, especially since thats the untimate 'death penalty' type of punishment that can be dealt. accross all the servers 1400 people knew the rules and yet managed to get themselves cought.

or....SE has a ban list of people and every month some would be GM be like 'hmmm who on the list shall we ban today?' in any case, this constant announcement of the deceased is pointless and annoying. if every so on they ban 1k + people eventually they will get to a redline where they are suddenly biting the very hand that feeds them.

i dont really see SE shelling out money out of their deep pockets to compensate for banned subscribers for violation of their rules.
dead horse how has been minced
# Aug 30 2006 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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630 posts
im begiing to think that they arent closing accounts simply for using a windower if all youre doing is just alt tabing.

moreover, it doesnt seem like account closure is much of a deterrent given the amount of people whose accounts have been closed since SE has started this 'war on thirdparty users' crusade, especially since thats the untimate 'death penalty' type of punishment that can be dealt. accross all the servers 1400 people knew the rules and yet managed to get themselves cought.

or....SE has a ban list of people and every month some would be GM be like 'hmmm who on the list shall we ban today?' in any case, this constant announcement of the deceased is pointless and annoying. if every so on they ban 1k + people eventually they will get to a redline where they are suddenly biting the very hand that feeds them.

i dont really see SE shelling out money out of their deep pockets to compensate for banned subscribers for violation of their rules.
so...
# Aug 30 2006 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
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947 posts
Possible Solution:

Why doesn't SE make it possible for the game to be run in windowed mode naturally on PC?
so...
# Aug 30 2006 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
Probably for the same reason that they crack down on Windower use. It can create a back door for even more 3rd party tools and/or hacks. You hear about the fiaso with Sony BMG's rootkit hidden on Audio CD's and how people were using it as a back door into WoW code, using it to alter their stuff? All they had to do was put a $ at the begining of the filename or something and WoW couldn't detect the code changes. I can't remember specifics. Its more than likely that it was because WoW does allow window-switching. It seems to me that it makes the the code less secure.
Alt-Tabbing and Security
# Sep 01 2006 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
Its more than likely that it was because WoW does allow window-switching. It seems to me that it makes the the code less secure.

I'm studying software engineering at the graduate level and I can tell you that isn't true. Here is an everyday example that should help clarify: Many banks let you move real money around using a webpage, that you can view in many different browsers, over which the bank has little or no control. Not only can you alt-tab out of your browser, you could be running just about any plugin under the sun. Banks are pretty concerned with security, but they don't worry about this. Why is that?

The simple anwser is they aren't relying on your browser to behave. They check everything it sends to them and won't follow any instructions it sends them that don't make sense or shouldn't be allowed. They don't send any information to your browser that they don't actually want you to have. The bank is taking responsability for their own behavior and because of that places few burdens on the user's systems or the users themselves.

Now consider the alternative. In this scenario the bank wants to trust your computer, not double-check what your computer sends them. Now they must be very concerned that your computer is worthy of trust, it might be compromised (particularly by you) and they need to ensure that you're only running authorized code that has not been modified on trustworthy hardware. When their trusted client is compromised in some way (as it almost inevitably will be) it can be used to make the bank's computers do bad or crazy things. As soon as they want to trust you, they also need to control you.

FFXI and many other MMOs (including WOW, but at least they let you alt tab and configure the interface yourself) are currently living in the second scenario. Rather than take more responsability themselves, they put more and more effort into controlling client's computers. This creates a perpetual arms-race between users who want to control their own computers (or cheat) and software publishers who need to make ever-more-invasive clients to feel comfortable trusting them, increases the potential for abuse when a client is compromised, and creates an environment where users feel publishers don't trust them (and they don't, because they can't afford to).

Gameplay hacks like warp hacks, flee hacks, and TP viewing are possible only becuase, for whatever reason, SE wants them to be possible. None of the hacks I've read about give users undue control over SE severs so the game server always has the choice to act on a user's insructions, or not; to send them information, or not. If you don't want users to know party member's TP, don't send it to them. If you don't want users to be able to move quickly or instantly from place to place then don't just blindly follow thier instructions when they try to. From a security perspective it really is just that simple. I'll admit this increases the burden on SE's servers, but I higly doubt it would do so to a technically unfiesable level.
Hmm
# Aug 30 2006 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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567 posts
The extent to which this ban interferes with RMT is limited to things like botting, speed hacks, and warp hacks. There is no one on my server that I know of who has been kicked for using windower by this "police action".

For those who don't know, Windower, by allowing one to run tools in the background, and by use of its plugin interface, allows harmless things (Like seeing your party members' TP, or displaying the distance to the mob) and harmful things (ffxiapp, bots, hacks). SE probably couldn't give a **** if you alt+tabbed to look at Alla, or a video, or **** (or all 3), but the same tool that lets you alt+tab also provides an interface for REALLY bad programs. Which is why SE has such a beef with windower.

To be honest, I felt that this was one of their better press releases, because it actually spoke of the real problems, not "Third party tools bad. You go to Hell".

Some quotes are in order:



Quote:
confirmed to have violated the user agreement by... enabling abnormal in-game movement were discovered and have been suspended or permanently terminated

A follow up:

Quote:
Based on the results of an investigation... accounts have been either suspended or terminated... for the malicious and intentional use of these third-party tools


Yep. The GM's ACTUALLY DO STUFF. Granted, once in a **** Ice Age, but there you have it.


Quote:
use of any third-party tools will not only destroy the in-game balance, but will also encourage RMT (real money trading) activities


It's hard to see alt+tabbing being the RMT concern, but when you consider things like hacks, I would have to agree with SE's Statement.


Quote:
To ensure our customers could enjoy the game safely, we will continue to apply measurements to combat these third-party tools and violations.



They actually have souls. Although, in the future, it would be more believable if the statement actually had Authors, and wasn't a computer printout. Thanks for trying though.
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