Edit.

Edited, Nov 5th 2011 12:19am by KGBSpectre

OMG...more nerfing. I am very concerned that SOE will be make such significant changes that the characters we have worked so long and hard at will be no longer fun to play. I've worked damn hard to get my necro to 70, elementally flagged and geared. It has taken me years to get to this point..it would be a shame to nerf the class to the point where it all would have been a waste of time and effort.

I for one, don't think I could level another alt up to 70 because SOE has drastically changed the rules. I am not against change, I just hope that they think carefully and plan well...

Some more info on class re-envisioning Options

Brenlo
Community Manager
Posts: 1808
Registered: 02-24-2004

Server: Test

Viewed 1359 times


Greetings all,

We wanted to pass along an update on our work on EverQuest classes. We are still gathering data from many of the logs that we have now enabled, however discussions are still occurring and progress is being made. We wanted to answer a couple of questions in the meantime to keep you all up to date.

Why do you need all this new data, don't you log everything anyway?

While many things in EQ have always been logged, others have not. When we decided to begin the process of evaluating class roles in groups, we found that some of the data we wanted was not available, so in our last update we added many new logging features. We found that some of the logs had to be adjusted to get us better information and we have made the necessary changes and plan to push them live with our next scheduled update. At the loggings completion, we will have mountains of accurate, server gathered data that will need to be digested and organized.

The EQ team stated that they wanted to evaluate group roles, what does that mean?

We hear from some classes in the EQ community that in a group situation, they are less desirable than other classes. That's not a fun position to be caught in when you are playing a game that relies upon groups for most encounters. This prompted the team to sit down and took a hard look at what roles there are in a typical group (Tank, DPS, Healing, Debuff, Crowd Control, Pulling, Buffing are some examples but there are others) *Note that these can be broken down into sub groups and debated endlessly, however for the sake of this discussion let's settle on these for now*. We then identified which classes filled which roles and numerically identified how well they filled that particular role. After this exercise, it was plain to see that some classes filled several roles well and others performed in a secondary or tertiary role only. This came as no surprise to us, but we felt it was an important first step to formally identify where we felt classes are today so we could get a better perspective on how much each class would need to change to help bring it in line with the other classes in EverQuest.

Does SOE consider every role to be of equal value to a group?

As the game has changed and evolved, the roles have shifted in their value. For example, the advent of longer buff timers means that a buffer might not be as needed in a pick up group as a DPS class is because the buffs can be acquired by players in a safe zone long in advance of actually reaching the content that requires them. This is another tricky part of this puzzle that we are sorting out. We are looking at the group roles and intend to make sure that each role is necessary.

When do you plan to release your conclusions and make changes?

When we have conclusions, we will release them. The end result of all this may be a few minor tweaks, or it may be some vast sweeping changes. We are far too early in the process to state what will be changing. We will make any changes slowly and with your full awareness. We will put things on test for you to mull over and consider and gather your feedback as we do. This is very much a cooperative effort between our community and our development team.

The EverQuest Team

Brenlo Bixiebopper
Community Relations Manager

---------------------------------------------
Halfling, Cajun Style!

do something about all the bots omg no wonder why i cant find a group

As a level 69 druid I find it way too difficult to get a group because at this point in the game the high end groups want specific classes that are the experts in the fields needed. Druids do a little of everything and aren't the best at anything, that's ok I was aware of this when I created the character, however at that time soloing was plausible which it isn't anymore, spells never stick to creatures needed for decent xp and even if they did way too many summon add that to that fact that they nerfed solo xp. So solution is either get me in a group in under 3hrs lfg or make it possible to solo again.

I think PvP needs to be addressed on non PvP servers.

Let me tell you my story.

I was in the arena in the bazaar. At the time, I was playing a lvl 65 wizard. Now, I was stunned, I was mezzed, and I was charmed by an enchanter. This in itself was okay. I can understand this. Now, let me give you the particulars.

My magic resistance was at 320. Even with the best tash available, not only should I have resisted EVERY one of those spells, but they shouldn't have even landed. Not even a partial resist. When I was charmed, it lasted for over 30 seconds. 320 MR, mind you. When I was stunned, it lasted for full time, 1 second. 320... When I was mezzed, it lasted full time. Once again, 30 seconds.

Now, here is the kicker of this. The enchanter was level 24.

That, is what I call unbalanced. Especially when I am in a duel, and my best fire spell is fully resisted with a 120 FR. 320, 120... you do the math. Wizards at one time were absolutely FEARED when duelling. Now they are laughed at.

PvP is so incredibly broken that it is undesireable. At least after that enchanter... I haven't duelled in two years now. I won't until the issue is addressed either.

Monks need gear that is not based just on wisdom, We pay way too much plat for gear just because it has that and mana on it. Also would like to see more monk useable gear thats lightweight. Just my 2cp. And no im not monk biased :) i have 2 accounts with at least one of each class.

I have to say in one of the first posts Magzavus said it best... The classes arent broke so please SOE dont go fixing us again.. I dread when soe decides to start meddling with classes. It drove me away from the game for nearly 2 years. When they decided in their quest for "class balancing" that necros were too powerful and started nerfing us to death, I finally got sick of it and completely deleted my original account which had my 56 necro on it, along with 4 other characters in their 30s. Granted a bit of an extreme solution but i was fed up. People always crying about what other classes can do.. You know you have an option.. play that other class!! I know, I know its a crazy novel idea but you really can! You dont hear me bellyaching about how druids can quad kite and I cant do ya? or how warriors can stand toe to toe with mobs that would breathe on me and turn me to paste do ya? No you don't, so if you want to solo start playing a class that can solo! Melee classes will never be that good at soloing, they arent made to nor were they ever meant to be soloers.. Listen to me tho I am not saying they CANT solo I am just saying that melees arent going to be as good at it as a soloing class like a drood or necro... But Magzavus had something else right.. If soe really wants to do something they need to give the players that are still here in eq a reason to stay... they need to give old players a reason to return.. and they need to give new players a reason to give the original world of norrath a try.. I love eq and there is much here i would like to do and see before i leave norrath.. Ive no desire to play eq2 at this time... Graphics dont make or break a game.. they can enhance a good game and make it great.. but when you have a proven, tried, wonderfully rich, fully realized world like the original eq you dont have to have bleeding edge graphics.. You just have to occasionally add some new fresh content.. SOE please dont turn your back on EQ1
P.S. one other thing as a necro I have always had a bit of trouble finding a group but now it seems even worse.. so i too have felt the sting of eq2.. If after this year when the next expansion has come out, if server populations do not improve substantially then soe will hopefully start merging servers.. It will either prove to be the death knell for eq or it will breathe new life into the game and create server homes for those of us who truly wish to stay in the original norrath

Berserkers

Berserkers are without question the current ******* children of the EQ world. Gates of Discord was sold largely on the fact that SOE was adding a new playable class. The berserker was supposed to be the master of the 2 handed weapon. He was also supposed to be capable of massive damage from throwing axes. Well as I have been playing a berserker for most of the past 8 months now I am convinced that SOE has done only what they must in order to keep the class as a playable class. They have done NOTHING to give the berserker a desirable role within either a group or raid. Berserker dps remains on par with that of a warrior until well into the upper levels and only begins to make good on SOEs promise of massive damage after about 150 AAs. The frenzy skill is the berserkers ONLY class defining skill, and its damage is not even based on the weapon the berserker is using. Give a forged throwing dagger to both a berserker and a wizard and they will both be capable of doing the same amount of damage with it. Throwing, while a nice curiosity with our cool summoned axes is not really very usefull for raids or groups. My cleric does more damage with a summoned hammer than my zerker does with his lvl 66 throwing axes.

Fixes that Berserkers need to make them a viable group and raid asset.

1. Lower the reuse timer on War Crys.
2. Fix the way Frenzy works so that frenzy damage is based on weapon dmg.
3. Improve damage from throwing. Also lower the cost of Balanced Axe Components. 20 components costs 91 plat in PoK. 20 components summons 400 axes. With a throwing axe delay of 29 this equates to 18 minutes 20 seconds worth of fighting for 91 plat. This means that in any given evening of raids a berserker using throwing axes alone will spend more platinum on summoning axes than any cleric EVER did on peridots.
4. Add a plethora of Berserker only weapons of all 2h variation. With the exception of the 3 berserker epic versions there are only just a handfull of berserker only weapons. This means that the berserker is forced to use weapons that are not in any way shape or form designed to his strengths.

Make these fixes and the Berserker could become what SOE sold it as. A class capable of dealing massive amounts of damage. Don't fix the class and all you have is a warrior with less AC and less HP's.

Wizards used to be important to EQ, imo they have been set aside.

Wizards basically have been known for two things since there inception.

DPS

Teleporting

Both have been sold out in one respect or another.

Improve our ability to do sustained dmg. I'm not asking for the best, but we are a dps class and warriors should not out dps us, period.

Burst Damage : What can I say, noone should even come close here.

i'm not sure what the purpose of this "class balancing" is. except to stir up something. its clear that SOE subscribes the idea of "if it ain't broke, we'll tamper with it to drive even more players away". its bad enough that EQ2 came out and seemingly 50% of the game population has left (from my views of the server i'm on), but now this class balancing garbage gets mentioned and people start going crazy. kudos to the marketing person who suggested this because I'd bet this will keep some people subscribed just to see what changes are made. i've grouped with many different classes in many different zones and they've all served a purpose. provided the person playing the account has a clue.

in my opinion this game is winding down and this is an attempt to breathe new life into it. even if its only an idea, some people will hang on just based on the idea that theres a big change coming and they want to see what it is. the sad part is that this game is becoming less popular not because of a rival companies game, but because of its own sequel. who has seen an open raid lately? guilds are hurting for players to show up to raid, no one can find groups. and is it because classes aren't balanced? could the fact that there are less players have anything to do with it?

why not try to get players interested in the game again instead of tampering with something that is fine as it is? maybe make an expansion with more than 12 zones. the players that didn't go over to EQ2 have proven that they're die-hard players. why not give something back besides expansions with less zones, ideas of tampering with classes they've played for years. instead of "fixing" something that isn't broken, why not take a look at why there aren't as many players. i believe that most players were happy with the classes for the most part until they read a tiny little bit about class balancing then they flip out.

so please don't mess with the classes. we're fine on this end, fix something on yours to get players interested in the game again.

My main is a 65 Shammy, and mainly what I want is for my pet to do more, and sum AAs for it would be nice too since damn near every other pet class got them!!

Edit.

Edited, Nov 5th 2011 12:16am by KGBSpectre

what about monks...........???

A Monk is perhaps one of the greatest classes in EverQuest. Few people truly understand the immensely powerful Monk class, but when they see a Monk in action, they are in awe. With the ability to heal yourself, deliver incredible damage, and always having a "get out of death free card", there is simply no comparing any other class to the Monk.

Get the BEST Monk gear...??????????
leather only with wieght restrictions.BullShi&

How to improve monks in groups

1) more dps
2) group mend aa
3) innate stun resist
--

Group role for a monk should include but not be limited too:

1. Best dps from any angle.
2. Best puller. Was up until PoP.
3. Add tank ( Note: not Main tank ). Was up until PoP.
4. Scout. Would add to our pulling skills.
5. Group mend/haste/regen benefits.

I would also like to see some benefits from grouping with a monk, for example the tranquil nature of a monk would boost / overclock regen both mana and hp at varying levels dependant on your level/gear. Haste would also be a nice group benefit from grouping with a monk.

I'd like to see pulling surpass bards again, but still make pulling challenging, one thing I have mentioned already is a Target blur skill, 50% success rate 3-6 secs recast, small end usage. Its sickening how easy FM makes pulling for bards, either nerf that or improve monk pulling, or make content that only monks can pull.

Pick locks, this is very minor but I would like to see monks get pick locks.

1) Viable but risky exp tank. Not as risky as today, but we shouldn't encroach on Knights ( who should always have an extreme advantage in snap aggro ) or Warriors ( who should always be the least risky from a "heals required over time" perspective )

2) Effective group offtank, in situations where snap aggro is not required at all ( for example, holding the second mob in a two pull long enough for the real tank to grab it or other CC to handle it )

3) Situationally best raid puller ( though those situations need to be far more frequent )

4) Very competitive with Bards as group pullers ( since we have none of their other utility )

5) Best DPS from any angle. Bring back Rip-Riposte ( with riposte immunity while not tanking and extra damage in a counter riposte to make up for being dodged/blocked ).

6) Widen the DPS gap between Monks and Warriors. They should have a clear advantage while tanking, we should have a clear advantage while DPSing. We should both be able to overcome the advantage of the other with gear superiority, but it should be like a two tier advantage before it becomes noticable.

While group utility would be kind of nice ( group mend, mend other, mana regen, health regen, group atk buff ), it kind of flies in the face of the monk class definition, in my opinion.

We've always been about making sure we survive first ( or die alone ).

Our preferred way of "helping" others has always been to beat the bastage down before it can hurt them.

I'd say:

More DPS to put us back in the middle of Warrior and Rogue DPS at most/all gear levels. A Ranger with a Bazaar bought bow should not be out-DPS'ing a REBB equipped Monk at 65 for instance, and at L62 a BL shouldn't be doing more DPS then a comparably equipped Monk. A Warrior at all levels should need a significant gear advantage before they even come close to our DPS, as it is now at certain gear levels they can pull even/ahead with even small weapon advantages, and there are more gear points where Warrior DPS is relatively close to a Monk then there are gear points where Monks are significantly ahead of Warriors. Rogue DPS is fine, I like Rogue DPS. Just put us closer to them and further ahead of Tank classes.

More mitigation, if it was just a huge boost while attack was off I'd be fine with that. But just giving us our old mitigation only while pulling would be lame, either a significant mitigation bonus while pulling or our old mitigation back for all situations. I don't care as much about tanking/offtanking, I'd like to be able to survive a pull if I have something respawn on top of my head, rather then getting stunned and slaughtered sometimes. Along with this, some kind of stun immunity would be very nice, or maybe like a reverse Ogre trait, where we couldn't be stunned from behind. Making us completely unstunnable is not justifiable, but it's stupid when greenies can repeatedly stun me on pulls, let alone EXP MOB's. Yes I know MOB's stun other classes too, but since the Monk class is supposed to have pulling as a role, an advantage other then FD I don't think is unreasonable. Most of the people I hear make fun of Monks in OOC is because they just watched the Monk die yet again on a pull, usually because he got rawped while he was stunned.

Reduced Imitate Death times, or just make it re-usable immediately. Bards are limited on how often they use it by mana, I'm fine with Monks being limited by Endurance. It's a cool skill and it can be very handy, but the refresh is so long it's not something that really helps with regular pulling. I've ID'ed before, only to have another see-invis roamer walk by, now I'm down for another 2 mins until I lose him since I can't ID again.

Reduced time on our offensive discs so we could use them more regularly. Thunderkick is a decent refresh time, but the DPS boost doesn't seem to be as high as I would like to see. Also *maybe* some kind of gather mana/Canni type spell that would let us convert HP to Endurance to go along with this? Other classes get Canni/Lich/Gather Mana/Yalp/etc., while it's a different type of idea, I'm not sure it would be completely unbalancing. We can focus our minds to mend our bodies, why not our endurance?

As far as the pulling part, making our L69 Lull pacify like our lower level one would be nice. I don't see SOE really fixing the pulling part of our role though, they would have to revamp MOB spawn points in every zone to really implement this correctly, and that's a somewhat unreasonable request

here is link:

http://p201.ezboard.com/fmonklybusiness43508frm1.showMessage?topicID=48088.topic