Battle System Adjustments (08/14/2007)

The August version update will bring revisions to the use of two-handed weapons, as well as a number of modifications to several jobs.

In this edition of Topics, we would like to elaborate on the changes that will be made to the two-handed weapon system. Job changes will be described in length in a future Topics article.

  • Two-handed weapons

Up until now, there have been instances in which the attack frequency and speed generated by dual wielding would greatly surpass those of two-handed weapons. We have since examined this issue from every conceivable angle, and as a result have decided to reconsider the frequency and delay calculation methods for two-handed weapons.

This month's version update will see the introduction of a new type of gear called "grips," which players can equip in their offhand weapon slot when using a two-handed weapon. We are also planning to apply changes to associated weapon skills as well.

  • Attacking with two-handed weapons

The new modifications will be set up so that a character's attribute scores will enhance attack benefits to a greater extent when wielding a two-handed weapon than when using a single-handed weapon. Further, when attacking high-level opponents or enemies with high defense, two-handed weapons will deal more damage than they have in the past.

  • A word on grips

While not designed to bring about radical improvements, grips are a new lineup of items which can be used in tandem with two-handed weapons as a means of wielding them more effectively. They accomplish this by enhancing a weapon's benefits while compensating for shortcomings. Grips will not be limited to offensive weapons, as some will be tailored to mages and their indispensable staves.
Different grips will allow players to adapt to specific situations depending on the type of two-handed weapon they are using, as well as the type of enemy they are fighting. Players should be advised, however, that changing grips mid-combat will result in a loss of TP. Therefore, no grip's benefits will be restricted to the execution of weapon skills.

 



  • Rethinking weapon skills
The majority of two-handed weapon skills already stand to see a vast improvement based on the changes described above. However, we will also be retooling the characteristics of several particular weapon skills in order to enhance their usability.

 

Comments

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My 2 cents.
# Aug 23 2007 at 11:26 PM Rating: Decent
I'm a 75 drk and there are some things that havent been talked about like the fact that the stats will have a greater effect on 2 handed weapons and 2 handed weapons will deal greater damage to higher lvl/def mobs.

To me this means not only will wen not attack so damn slow, but we will hit even harder then before, and now maybe we will get a lil more use endgame on god fights and such, not just stun duty, now our damage wont be as gimped as as our tiny weapon-useing friends.

When i read that i was so pumped and at the same time im tihnking "Duh, finally SE" i play D&D a little with friends and when useing 2 hands on a weapon you get your str mod and a half to dmage instead of jus str mod, because it only makes sence. Then theres the more dmg to high defense, again LOGIC , you try to cut something with a thick exoskelitin (crab) or hit it with a scythe wich do you think will be less effected by the think armer?

As for the whole /nin thing, i personally sub nin and use scythe sill in most situations, i dont sub nin for duel weild, i sub nin so i can spam guillotine and dish out the damage w/o worrying much about hate, useally if im about to do something stupid i cast dreadspikes first and laugh as i tear the mob a new one then let him open up his own wound by hitting me, but recast and mp cost makes it so you cant rely on it. but now im thinking maybe /SAM is looking alot better for meriting, still get one shadow and drain II + I should be enough to stop the mages from whineing when i pull hate for a bit. Another thought, DRK/SAM with haste gear + grip and less deley . . . im tihnking a drk could do some searious WS spamming >_>

If this update goes well ill probably consider leveling war or sam for my next 75 job.

lil off topic but im totally pissed now because my computer just recently desided not to turn on anymore and haveing just got out of highschool and looking to go to collage i dont have alot of moneys XD . . . so i have to wait till i have more money to enjoy this update T-T
Ooorah
# Aug 16 2007 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
Wow
I am sooo pumped, when do these come out?
How are you going to get them? Craft? NM's?
Samurai lvl 44 almost 45 /thf, ownage, and ownage even harder
Hello RMT benefit
# Aug 16 2007 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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726 posts
Although this is a nice change for 2hd weapon users, you know that RMT and greed is going to abuse the newness of this idea.

random shout >> Grip, Can I have it? You can have this 100 million gil.

Yeah...

Why not just make the delay adjustments to the weapons themselves? Don't we have enough elitist mentality in the game as it is? Now we are adding "oh your using a crappy grip with your GS...gimp" to the nose turners.

Still looking forward to this but be prepared for high prices and a lot of shouting matches.

I guess actually adjusting the 2hd weapons was too difficult.
Its been a long time coming thank you SE
# Aug 16 2007 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
Ive been playing this game for a LONG time, and I always though 3 things 1) War/Nin can outdamage and person with 2 handed weapondry 2)Drks get shafted on spells 3) They will never nerf blm. Since the turn of the year, I've had to retract 2 of my statements. This is the best thing SE has done since Dread spikes and drain 2. /salute SE
Woot!
# Aug 16 2007 at 4:46 AM Rating: Decent
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180 posts
Seeing that I am a DRK, BRD and DRG all I use is 2 handed weapons... So if these work out as well as SE is saying they will, all I can say is THANK YOU SE! <3

But we will have to see when they come out and I actually start using them if it really makes a difference. But still, thank you SE for trying! <3

Edited, Aug 16th 2007 8:48:59am by YfandesofBismarck
Let's be honest...
# Aug 15 2007 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
For those of you who have never really tried out /NIN, and spend much time on the side waiting for ptys while the single-handed weapon users get all the invites I must tell you - /NIN is not as much for TP gain, speed, and extra damage as it is for Defense bonus. Having experience with support as well as damage and tank jobs I can tell you that it is much more preferable to have those who can protect themselves for a short time and still deal great damage, saving the mages some MP and keeping the rhythm at a quick and comfortable pace, then to have those who are capable of tearing the life from a mob in a few hits, leaving just enough of it anger the mob to the point where it simply spins on that player and casts sneak / invis on the poor guy's lifebar and leaves the now MP-less healer with more hate than the tank. I mean, DRKs, SAMs, and DRGs are already capable of great damage. We've learned to deal with what SE's given us and tweaked our weaknesses into minor injuries. But no matter how much damage you do you can never decrease the benefit of /NIN.

Morever, from my experience with FFXI (and just life in general), people will always stick with what they're most comfortable with. Exp ptys will still be more preferable with a group of WAR/NINs with 1 or 2 BRDs, perhaps an occasional NIN/WAR, RNG/NIN, or MNK/NIN to fill in the gaps. But with this common setup you can burn fast enough to have Chain #999 if you kept at it long enough, and max out exp. So what then is the incentive for adding those with 2-handed weapons, and those with subs other than /NIN? I hate to say it, because I'm a strong proponent of change, but this will change nothing as far as endgame ptys will go. Unless they nerf 1-handed weapons they're only giving 2-handed weapon jobs a hollow hope that they'll be the next hot thing. /NIN is irreplaceable. I personally love to try new job combos, as well as quite a few others I know. I have a buddy who likes to WAR/DRG in dynamis for instance. And while he builds TP as fast as some SAMs, and WSs harder than almost anyone else in the alliance, he spends more time weakened than he does fighting. Healers are not attracted to that. Endgame exp ptys are not attracted to that. It makes for great bragging rights but what good is doing the most damage in a short time if you waste more time picking your teeth up from the ground and causing healers to spend faster than fat people through the buffet line?

Think about it. You'll see what I mean.

---------------------------
Character: Bale
Jobs: RNG75 (Full merit), NIN75 (Full merit), BRD75 (Still meritting), DRK71
Server: Carbuncle
Let's be honest...
# Aug 16 2007 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
34 posts
Why are you a healer if you don't want to heal is my question of all those who think like that. I'm a sam main in case you don't know me, hello /wave. I hate playing mage jobs, it's why I don't play them.

I find this kind of /nin shadow tank the whole pt so mages don't have to heal mentality from players to be about the equivalent of me as a DD saying, nah guys I'll be over there lvling up my throwing skill while y'all DoT this thang, or a nin saying I'm just gonna DD for a bit while I let the sam tank... oh, wait, scratch that last one ~.O With all the sources of refresh we have nowadays, mp should never be a prob as long as you're smart about it.

Then there's the fact that sam is a very viable sub now for 2h's. kicking hasso off for seigan for the 10 seconds it should take a tank to get hate back isn't difficult. And they do both give such wonderful bonuses.

/nin is not the only melee sub. war/nin is not the only DD job capable of taking a few hits w/out panicking the mages.

Think about it. You'll see what I mean.
Bring out the home run hitters
# Aug 15 2007 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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171 posts
Ya mnk doesnt suffer the same affliction that ive seen over the years with 2h weapons. The whole point is that dual wield under current conditions will cause much more damage overall, and mnk falls more or less into the same category. I love diversity. /nin on every melee and tank isnt very diverse. 2h ws's do without a doubt suck compared to what you think a high damage weapon should be able to do.

I believe SE may cure a large problem with this update in regards to things growing stale. Seeing everyone and their mother dual-wield is about as exciting as month old pizza. Bring in the heavy hitters.

I do hope they do allow mnks a change of pace and make mnk/sam with a staff a functional alternative under certain situations. With Hasso and grips and a few gear changes swings should be relatively fast and hard. I know h2h is the bread and butter (75 mnk) but having another choice would be nice (nun-chuks may come someday i hope) Overall i realy look forward to this change for the sake of creativity in game for all the jobs that like the thought of "the big boys"
Bring it on...
# Aug 15 2007 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
Well its about time,all i see in these pts nowadays is blu,rngs,and everything other than the real heavy hitters.
MNKs?
# Aug 15 2007 at 10:02 AM Rating: Default
DRKs are finally getting what they deserve!! First, Absorb-TP..then Drain II....and now faster swing-rate with these nifty "grips". If you ask me, DRK/SAM/DRG will finally be wanted in an exp pt!!!

BTW, is it just Kujata or are your Hauby+1 less the 4mil too? Gotta love the stock market!

God Speed
MNKs?
# Aug 22 2007 at 1:34 AM Rating: Decent
yeah YN2 I like that lil quote you have at the end of your message and I truly agree...AM2
daaaaaammmmmnnnn
# Aug 15 2007 at 7:54 AM Rating: Decent
2-handed DD's just got there break. ^^
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
# Aug 15 2007 at 7:20 AM Rating: Decent
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135 posts
i have to wipe all this goey stuff off my monitor......... THANK YOU SE I WILL NEVER LEAVE THANK YOU THANK YOU
Lol Monks with Grips.
# Aug 15 2007 at 6:07 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,102 posts
Do monk's get Hasso?

No.

Therefor it isn't considered a two handed weapon.

"Monk isn't overpowered enough, can we please have delay down items so that we are Hundreded Fasted at all times?"
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Lol Monks with Grips.
# Aug 15 2007 at 6:49 AM Rating: Decent
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317 posts
I wouldn't say mnks are overpowered, but no our weapons aren't broken or anything. But if 2 handed weapons get fixed and get grips, 1 handed weapon users can have shields or dual wield with /nin, but mnks get left out of both of those options(besides dual clubs)? Yeah I know, the worlds not fair, deal with it.

I would like to see just "Hand to Hand weapons: Subtle Blow+2" or something usefull but not uber for H2H weapons. It does say all jobs, so I'm going to keep my hopes up even though everyone on forums will flame me and SE will eventually break my heart.
Wooooooootaga!!!
# Aug 15 2007 at 3:21 AM Rating: Decent
Ok let me be the first to say this is freakin awsome!!!!!!! My first 75 is drg the years of lvling it and listening to everyone including my linkshell throw out that I'm a moron has made me sick. I have always noticed the lower WS dmg on IT mobs which in alot of cases it always seemed so unfair. For some reason even if your mob is weak to piercing slashing WS would still throw out = if not more dmg. The over hype on war/nin is coming to an end. I will gladly parse my DRG with any of you guys and I can already see the intimidation factor coming into play. As soon as I logged on yesterday to talk about this wonderful new update coming the war/nin's jumped on it already talkin the smack they always have LOL. My gear for drg is pretty damn good so on the real with this increase of dmg wich is all i really want i can care less about the haste to be honest with ya, my drg will hopefully be able to stabelize a consistant 1k+ penta thrust. Mabye be able to sub /sam now and be able to throw out higher dmg WS's and spaam em like it aint no thing!!! very excited guys and to all my drg brothers DRG FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!! o,ob peaceaga
Coming to grips...
# Aug 14 2007 at 11:50 PM Rating: Decent
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6,424 posts
I want a PUP-only grip that says
Automaton: HP+0.00000001%


You know, to fit the adaman sainti's Automaton: HP+0.75%
fuhgetaboutit
# Aug 14 2007 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
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506 posts
I can't see how MNK will get any straps since the whole purpose of these new items is to help make 2-handed DDs more on par with MNKs, WARs and NINs. Last i checked, MNKs aren't hurting for spots in merit pts. All the while, SAMs, DRGs and DRKs sit in whitegate for hours, leveling their craft skills.
Wishfull thinking
# Aug 14 2007 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
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317 posts
As a mnk, I really want to see this apply to us as well. I'm not getting my hopes up but if a drk can use a scythe with a sword strap to reduce delay, why can't a mnk use knuckle wraps to increase acc or maybe absorb the shock giving less TP? Maybe not all grips will be 2H weapon specific. Like I said, wishfull thinking, but mnks like new toys too :(
High hopes!
# Aug 14 2007 at 8:42 PM Rating: Decent
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495 posts
maybe this can vanquish the I'm a moron once and for all!
Success!
# Aug 14 2007 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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506 posts
All i can think about is, Soboro just got a lot pwnier.
Grips
# Aug 14 2007 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
Oh I can't wait to be able to use my G Axe in a Pt
Level 55 in example.
# Aug 14 2007 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
Worst. Title. Ever!
*****
17,302 posts
I'm hoping there are a wide range of levels, from 10 to 75. Throw a bone to the low levels with the fun new equipment as well Smiley: smile


I'm sure at the lower levels, the bonus won't be huge, it will just be fun, and make low level melee not feel left out.
____________________________
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
ahahahahaha
# Aug 14 2007 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
Hello DRK pwnage!
mage grip
# Aug 14 2007 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
i cant wait to see what the grips for mages are. but i doubt any of these will b cheap for the first few months if they are a crafted item. well its time to find out what they are made of and start farming.



<goodbye> /NIN ...i hope
mnk?
# Aug 14 2007 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
i see some ppl saying mnk will be able to use this but if u look at some of the sam moves like seigan and hasso, they require a 2-handed wep to use and if u ever tried doing it as mnk, it wouldnt work. if this item is like those abilities, mnk wont be able to use them. (h2h is in 2 diff hands; GA, GK, GS, ect... are all one handle but 2 hands to weild)
Thank you SE!
# Aug 14 2007 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
38 posts
All I can say is God bless you SE. This will definately make some change from all of the /nin hype. Don't get me wrong. I know that people will still use the nin subjob and if that's what you want, cheers. I just think that the two handed weapons and jobs that use them with high ratings have taken a backseat to the jobs with duel weild trait. I'm hoping to see a lot of change with this and I think I will.

SE is taking a step in the right direction. I'm not even a two handed weapon user for the most part (PLD main). This is very good news.
0.0
# Aug 14 2007 at 11:41 AM Rating: Default
I guarentee warriors will start leveling great axe now. Lawl.
0.0
# Aug 14 2007 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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1,416 posts
Quote:
I guarentee warriors will start leveling great axe now. Lawl.

90% of the WAR I know already do that (100% of them should).
0.0
# Aug 14 2007 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
Agree totally, GA has always been my favourite weapon, although some party setups make war/nin a benefit.

I'm really looking forward to anything that can enhance two-handed weaponery.

==========================================
WAR//DRG//NIN//THF//RNG etc
0.0
# Aug 15 2007 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
**
847 posts
A WAR in my linkshell has a Bravura. All I can say to the monsters of Vana'Diel is "look the ^%$#@ out!" (Metatron Torment)(You can have this.)
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