Don't confuse the new Atlas Book with EQ Atlas

Just copying over what I posted on the update page so you can comment: Muse sent me this note to post for you: "SOE recently began promoting their new book, the Everquest Atlas, and some of you have expressed to me some confusion regarding this. Despite the similarity between the name of this product and their use of "EQ Atlas" to advertise it on the Everquest Live site, the product is not related in any way to my site, EQ Atlas (www.eqatlas.com). While we both offer maps and descriptions, the specific content is quite different. I hope that this announcement will clear up any confusion." I'll go a bit further. /rant on. It seems pretty rotten of them to be using the good will he built up over the past three years to sell their book in a way that would clearly confuse players into thinking Muse is involved with it. Muse is a friend, so I may be prejudiced on this one, and yeah it is Sony's game, but I can easily think of a dozen names they could have picked that would have been just as good and wouldn't have suggested a connection with his site. The only logical conclusion to draw is that they are hoping people will go "Cool. EQ Atlas has a book" and buy it based upon that. Shameful, really. Moreover, having looked at the example pdf file SOE lists and compared it to the information on Muse's site, I'm not sure why anyone would buy that book when EQ Atlas offers far superior maps and information for free, and has been serving the community for years. Yeah they're pretty, but who wants a map without locs and camp information? /rant off.

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This bandwagon is silly
# Aug 20 2002 at 6:54 AM Rating: Decent
at·las

1. A book or bound collection of maps, sometimes with supplementary illustrations and graphic analyses.
2. A volume of tables, charts, or plates that systematically illustrates a particular subject: an anatomical atlas.
3. A large size of drawing paper, measuring 26 × 33 or 26 × 34 inches.
-----

You're all hopping mad that Verant "stole" something from this Muse person. They didn't name their book "Muse's Everquest Atlas," they used a generic term that *ANYONE* who makes a book of maps uses, hence the definition. What, did you expect them to call it "Everquest Big Book O' Maps"?

I quote from Muse's note:

"While we both offer maps and descriptions, the specific content is quite different."

It seems to me this Muse person understands that its not the same, and the people who have the largest problem aren't even from the damn EQ Atlas site, LOL.

But I'm sure you will all still rant and rave about it, because it makes you feel like you're fighting against Big Bad Corporate Sony/Verant.

To the initial person in this thread griping about the "dumbing down" of the game, what the hell is a bigger dumbing down than EQ Atlas that provides camp and spawn locations? Like I said, even with obviously flawed arguments you will still rail against Sony/Verant.
RE: This bandwagon is silly
# Aug 20 2002 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
One thing I forgot to add:

Its kind of hard to take all this moral outrage seriously when, after all, this is a cheater site.
Another Useless Book
# Aug 20 2002 at 4:33 AM Rating: Decent
I have looked at Verants sample map. It sucks about as much as their manual does.
I have been using EQAtlas since the game began. In fact, I will go as far to say that without EQAtlas and Allahazam I would not still be playing. I use both sites nearly every day. I will continue using EQAtlas. Muse has better maps by far. AND Muse is not trying to rip anyone off! This book is just another attempt at Verant to milk their customers to death.
When I find out how much Sony is going to ask for the book, I am going to cut Muse a check for that same amount. Dollar for dollar, EQAtlas will be a much better value.
RE: Another Useless Book
# Aug 20 2002 at 5:47 AM Rating: Excellent
Here Here. Finally someone who isnt just talking about it. I think you have a great idea here Sash, and i will follow your lead. Working for an ISP i have a rough guess of how much Muse spends on his site each month, and i can tell you its more then i spend on my car. So my check to Muse for $19.95usd will be in the mail on October 14, and i hope you all do the same.
Atlas book
# Aug 20 2002 at 3:33 AM Rating: Default
I agree, not a nice thing of SOE to do this. Though i love the effort SOE and Verant spend in making EQ the great game that it is, i hate it when they take advantage of the great effort of Muse.In the 3 years without getting any payment he has been a great help source for the whole player society and its not fair that they take advantage of all his work.
I never could have played the game so long without the great help of EQAtlas and Allakhazam
Keep up the good work Muse, Allakazam and thumbs down in this case for SOE.
no competition
# Aug 20 2002 at 3:27 AM Rating: Default
As a look at the example pages shows at once the book is no competition to the online EQ Atlas. The rather strange way EQ has to determine your loc is meant to make it impossible for you to guess where you are in a zone and how large the zone really is. The new book gives you an overview of the zone, but you have no mean to determine your position in it. In short: Without loc information it is useless for the real game. It is a collectors item meant to make money from the huge fan group of EQ players - which is their right to do or better to try to do.
no competition
# Aug 20 2002 at 3:26 AM Rating: Default
As a look at the example pages shows at once the book is no competition to the online EQ Atlas. The rather strange way EQ has to determine your loc is meant to make it impossible for you to guess where you are in a zone and how large the zone really is. The new book gives you an overview of the zone, but you have no mean to determine your position in it. In short: Without loc information it is useless for the real game. It is a collectors item meant to make money from the huge fan group of EQ players - which is their right to do or better to try to do.
[Just imagine: They made 1 million dollars by the name changing service alone(http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,42210|4,FF.html)]
But they are not handing out a solution guide to the game. Not being a collector I wont buy the book, but I am using EQ Atlas almost daily. Thanks for the great site.
More cash? I think not...
# Aug 20 2002 at 3:18 AM Rating: Default
I agree...it's just another attempt for Verant/Sony to score more cash. Ever since the name change service and the character swap service EQ has felt more like the GAP then a role playing game.....stupid capitalistic pigs....

Rissus De'Vir
Druid of 30 Autumns
E Marr
Forever the Wanderer!
there luclin book
# Aug 20 2002 at 1:38 AM Rating: Decent
As someone who has played the game for the duration i can say there guide to luclin is terrible. It has maps of the kitty city, nexus, and bazarr. Not even very good maps. EQatlas maps ROCK. This book will be another way for VI to make money. And will most likley only be worth jack sheet to brand new players, who would be better off reading information off this site, eqatlas, and castersrealm. shrug no mater what I know i won't b buying it.
Symphonic
Bard of Emarr
Are you insane?
# Aug 20 2002 at 12:16 AM Rating: Decent
EQ Atlas is a generic term. They aren't capitalizing on his hard work and name, but selling a legitimate product that yeah will probably be out of date quite quickly but still a useful reference to many.

Before you all go nuts, I pay for both Alks and Eqatlas so na na na. I think they are good resources but the EQ Atlas is not stealing from Mr. Atlas. In fact, lamely enough, the law is probably on Verants side if they ever were to decide his reprinting of their intellectual property was unacceptable. His product solely derives from their content.
Sony's Money is the only money that counts
# Aug 19 2002 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
The book will be out dated by the time it hits the shelves. Everyone that wants a good map will still go to Muse's site.

Why didn't Sony just cut Muse in on the deal? Everyone would be a winner then Sony, Muse and the players.
RE: Sony's Money is the only money that counts
# Aug 20 2002 at 12:24 AM Rating: Default
NAIL ON THE HEAD!!

But,nowthis puts Sony in a better position to sue Muse for the site name AND "damages". Sad, but I'd start the legal fund now because it won't be long before some mid level sony manager afraid for his bankroll will initate a very nasty campaign on this.

My heart and support to you Muse.
RE: Sony's Money is the only money that counts
# Aug 20 2002 at 7:54 AM Rating: Decent
OMG! Stop the Sony is evil bashing already!! If they wanted to sue anybody they very well could have done it long ago with all these sites putting up infromation about their game content. I've never heard Sony bashing any of these independant sites for putting up info about Everquest, less it be exploits then I could understand them griping hard.. SO if they're not complaining about others putting up info on their game WHY OH WHY are so many here complaining about them putting out information about their own game?!?!?!?!?!?!
Everquest Atlas / EQ Atlas
# Aug 19 2002 at 11:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Absor et al,

Why?

I've been playing Everquest since it went live. I have no less than four accounts I pay for every month. I've been a huge proponent of the game, having converted more than a few people to "EverCrack" in my time, and I had no intention of ever stopping.

But I will say it now, because it's become undeniable - SOE/Verant really, really need to pay better attention to their community sites.

The class specific sites, as well as Caster's Realm, Allakhazam, and others have been a huge reason many of us still play, showing us the content there is to seek, helping us when we're stuck in quests, and generally offering a place to share strategies with outer Everquest players.

Verant/SOE has always called these "cheat sites" or "spoiler sites", and has always inferred a sense of disdain with these websites, as if there very existence was to the detriment of the Everquest community. I hope, internally, this opinion has changed, because honeslty, I don't know how much of a playerbase you'd have without these sights to offer the help, cohesion, and sense of community that surrounds Everquest.

This brings me to EQAtlas.

If you were to set up a poll, right now - "Have you ever visited www.eqatlas.com". on the Login screen, I'd bet well over 80% would say "yes". It has been around almost as long as EQ has, and has very much been *the* place to go for maps, zone info, as well as details on the lore of specific zones.

Muse, the site's creator and maintainer, has repeatedly suggested that he has had trouble financially maintaining the site, as well as justofying his time spent on creating one of the most visited sites in Norrath.

So, that leaves me with tho burning questions:

1 - When you created your paper atlas, why did you not either use Muse's maps, or at least offer him the oppertunity to produce "print-quality" maps for you?

2 - *why* advertise it with the name "EQ Atlas", or "Everquest Atlas"??? Why not pick one of the 50 other combinations that would suggest something *other* than Muse's site?

To this day, while I haven't understood *why* SOE/Verant chose to treat the community with disdain, I haven't ever seen them try to *exploit* it either. That's a low blow, and may be the nail in the coffin for me. I've advocated Norrath a long time, but I won't put up with this any longer. Please, offer me (and the lurkers out there with the same questions), some answers to those above. Why, Absor?
Pretty to look at...
# Aug 19 2002 at 11:28 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
87 posts
I'll say this, SOE's got a nice presentation with their book. I might buy it, for the same reason I bought my Pern and Diskworld maps: I'm a fan. However, I'll keep using and contributing to Muse's site. The major advantage: Muse (and thousands of contributors) keep the information as current as possible in a constantly changing game.

SOE *could* have used a different name, even "Everquest Atlas" or "Norrath Altas: a Guide to Everquest" would have been better. If Muse isn't too busy taking tests he/she might consider a lawsuit (darned if I can remember if that's copyrights or trademarks, but there's no doubt the site was here first).

Calthine Faeriesong
Bard of the 40th Song
Torture Guild
Vazelle
RE: Pretty to look at...
# Aug 21 2002 at 2:14 PM Rating: Default
"SOE *could* have used a different name, even "Everquest Atlas"

That IS the name.

"or "Norrath Altas: a Guide to Everquest" would have been better."

That's innaccurate since it includes Luclin. People wouldn't buy it if it didn't include Luclin.
Bid for it
# Aug 19 2002 at 11:16 PM Rating: Decent
I also think Muse should Bid on printing the book. just a statment later.
These things
# Aug 19 2002 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
Well i think it is crappy we should do something.
No sir, I don't like it
# Aug 19 2002 at 10:40 PM Rating: Decent
Lets face it, Verant is the Microsoft of the MMO world.

They were one of the first companies to get it right, thus having very little competition, and were allowed to do things pretty much the way they saw fit.

Now that they have competition, they're resorting to (what I see as) heavy handed bully like tactics in order to try and outshine potential competition. The unfortunate thing is they're allowed to do it. It is after all their game and they want to make money off of it. I mean, right now they only make about $5 million profit each month, how can anyone live on that?

Of course if you look at it as EQ did start getting some real competition, Verant started doing things so they could keep more player and make more money. 3 years ago they said changing a character's first name or moving it to a different server would never be done because it was wrong and violated the vision, blah blah blah. Now, they're more than happy to do it, for a fee of course. They also implemented no exp loss under level 10 instead of level 5, because people got to level 6 and saw how much of a pain in the *** the game was. By the time you're level 10, you've got some serious time invested in your character and are less likely to leave.

I hate to say it but they're well within their rights to act like bullies. They have even made press releases insulting upcoming games. (SOE recently made a press release saying that they bought the rights to do a Marvel MMO game, and that City of Heroes, a super hero MMO game within 6 months or so of release, won't be any good. That's total ********* Unfortunately, if they wanna be ******** then they can, and there's nothing we can do about it but cancel our subscriptions. If everyone on this thread canceled their accounts, lets say 50 people, it wouldn't even register on their screens. It really sucks, but there's nothing we can do about it, which is really frustrating.

It sucks, it really does, but there's nothing we can do. I for one hate verant completely.
The voice maybe louder on Amazon.com
# Aug 19 2002 at 10:25 PM Rating: Decent
Perhaps someone (or we all) can post a review within this book's description on the Amazon.com and let people know the Everquest Atlas book is not the same as the contents from EQ Atlas.

I suspect some people will buy the book thinking the stuff is from the Muse's site because Muse has done such a tremendously good job, so a review or two should give people ample warnings.
muse vs soe
# Aug 19 2002 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
ok ive been usein eq atlas for 3 years now
and i trust the info muse offers , for soe to try to dupe us is just wrong and sides member when muse wanted to publish the atlas and they told him not to i say we as a comunity should boycot this book out of respect for ourselves and muse

Edited, Mon Aug 19 22:53:20 2002
stick with what works
# Aug 19 2002 at 9:54 PM Rating: Good
all i can say is that i have been using EQ atlas for almost 3 years and have probably printed out all the maps and info muse has put up so to me there is no point and buying a book when i can just continue to use the site, like they say stick with what works why fix anything that isn't broke i am perfectly happy with the way i get my info from he sites i use.

We don't need no stinkin books.

Braken, 41 druid of Karana
Tumelce, 11 beastlord of the Tribunal
Vzinn, 22 necro of Cazic-Thule
Muse maps vs Sony maps
# Aug 19 2002 at 9:38 PM Rating: Default
Muse rules, Sony stinks. That is all that needs to be said.
Yak Yak Yak
# Aug 19 2002 at 9:35 PM Rating: Default
Wow, SoE is gonna print out their own maps of EQ Worlds. Now, why dont they use the best maps this side of the www? Smiley: glare. I swear, sure they may have the original blueprints of the zones, (And let's hope they'll get a map of Vex), but Muse draws them so well, well.... I cant think of anything Smiley: blush...... but he draws them so kik **** and with fine detail. So SoE, tell me, why the heck wont you ask a poor site with kik **** maps to create maps for you and give Muse a chance to add extra maps to his site, hmm? Flame if you want, this is Mah opinion Smiley: king

Just my Smiley: twocents

PS: And yes, I like to brag about being a premium member so I use smileys Smiley: clown!
Well....
# Aug 19 2002 at 9:26 PM Rating: Default
Why don't you make your own book as competition. Everyone that plays the game will recognize what EQ stands for so you would never have to mention Everquest in the book, and hopefully keep you from running into copyright/trademark problems. Even if you only offered it for sale on your site. There are still many of us who haven't printed out all the maps you have available and would be willing to pay for your far superior information. If there are still legal issues with selling the maps you could always offer it for free and $15 s/h :) Well.... just a thought, but it's a shame to see them do this. Considering everything else we've seen them do to their customers, I don't think anyone is really surprised
names
# Aug 19 2002 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
It is true that it is there game and I do Love it, However it does kind of stink that they would use this name knowing that muse has had it for 3 years. I have no clue on the copy right laws or anything My complant is based on profesional respect as if there is any of that left in the world.

Just my 2cp worth

51 seasoned Baroness pally
Mixed feelings here...
# Aug 19 2002 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
Personally, I think Verant could have used a little discretion here and named their book the EverQuest Atlas instead of using Muse's name, EQ Atlas, but it is within their right to use whatever they wish...afterall, it's their product!

As for Verant's maps themselves, I'm extremely disappointed Smiley: disappointed in their detail. Muse's maps (and info) are far superior. Verant's book is nice as far as an addition to a collection (I have all of the Guides, the peuter figures, the original cloth map, etc. - I'm a collecting nut! Smiley: oyvey ) but they are totally useless as an ingame help. The book was put together to be 'pretty' by the artists, and to give newcomers to EQ a slightly better group of maps than the Handbook has. For vetern players, the websites are still the best source of info.

My own map collection includes collected info from all of the sites as well as from my own travels, each cataloged by continent, and sub-cataloged by zone type all in a chart and contains info on all NPCs and MOBs, unique zone items, quests, merchants, tradeskill items, etc. etc. I'm still working on them and will continue to use the websites to create my own 'Atlas' but I'll probably buy the book anyway just to add it to my collection.

We all owe Muse, Allakhazam, Illia, and all the rest, for their dedication to making our EQ gaming experience much more fun Smiley: bowdown, but I think we should take a reality check here as far as Verant is concerned. There's no conspiracy here! Smiley: rolleyes They are a business and a business needs to make money in order to stay in business, pure and simple. The book may not be the best effort (nor even the smartest), but if ya don't like it, just don't buy it.
Cheap Imitation
# Aug 19 2002 at 7:50 PM Rating: Default
From my intial glance at their sample pdf, it seems to be a cheap imitation of the real thing (EQAtlas.com). They even stole the basic layout with level ranges, dangers, benefits, and notable NPCs but without all the important information like locs, spawn points, and useful links to the Bestiary, Quests, and Equipment lists.

Muse pwns, Sony/VI suxxors
RE: Cheap Imitation
# Aug 19 2002 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
It's not a cheap imitation, Muse's maps are near perfection! How could Sony make an atlas that let's say left out the map, or the zone description, or the level range.. would seem a tad silly to do that. Sonys maps look nothing like Muse's & doesn't give loc's.. even if they did give loc's & all the same information that Muse's maps did.. it's their game content to do with as they please. I'd say Sony's atlas is a damned big compliment to Muse that they (a big, professional corporation) would want to follow a similar layout to the one Muse does.. and why not, it's a great layout.
i am with you
# Aug 19 2002 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
I am a fellow bard. I am with you. BARD POWER

A Song CAN change the World
Nocturnum Darksinger
Bard of Many Songs
Where is the problem?
# Aug 19 2002 at 7:44 PM Rating: Decent
There the post has been made stating that EQ Atlas has no affiliation with the book that is going to be released... Now where is the problem?

The only people who would confuse the book with the site would be a person who attends the site. With that announcement... poof... there goes any confusion.

Lets not forget that EQ Atlas is not only an appropriate title for the book, but probably THE most appropriate title for the book.

People need to get out of the mindset that VI is trying to ***** eveyone over. True, being a business, their initial goal is to make money. However, a large part of that is keeping their customers happy. The introduction of this book is a means to give information to the tens of thousands of EQ players that have no idea eqatlas.com exists.

I guess when so much of one's life goes into a game such as this, one can't help but lace everything with conpiracy stories to make it more interesting.
Matchles
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