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#52 Jun 19 2012 at 7:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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As I said, I see it as an important part of citizenship. I understand Gbaji doesn't share or understand these values as he demonstrated by comparing it to playing your car radio too loud. There's really no bridging that gap.
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#53 Jun 19 2012 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
No. You pay because you are required to do so.

I understand that I operate under a different value system than you but, to me, paying taxes is part of "things you do as a citizen".

But you wouldn't pay them unless you were legally required to do so, right?


I would still pay them, even if it was a suggestion, and not a law, since I understand what they are for. I see them as paying for services that are needed for everyone. You know, Firemen, Policemen, Teachers, roads, etc. Things I like to have around, just in case I need them. Smiley: lol



Unless you've been paying extra cash to the treasury over the last several years (at least) in order to do your part to help fight rising deficits, then you are mistaken. You may think you would when asked the question in abstract, but I don't think you would in actual fact. You are free to pay more money than required to the treasury at any time. I don't see why someone would think they'd do that if the required amount was zero anymore than they do right now. Assuming you do believe that our deficit is something that we should reduce that is.

If tomorrow the government suggested that if everyone just voluntarily paid an extra $10k to the treasury each year we could eliminate our deficit, would you pay the extra amount? Not required to. No guarantee that anyone else will. Just you making a choice. Would you really do it? I don't think so. And you'd be right not to btw. There's a reason why people argue for higher or lower taxes, but not for people to voluntarily give or not give money to the government. I'm just being honest about it, while some seem to want to pretend that they're on some kind of high road.
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#54 Jun 19 2012 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
As I said, I see it as an important part of citizenship. I understand Gbaji doesn't share or understand these values as he demonstrated by comparing it to playing your car radio too loud. There's really no bridging that gap.


You're saying that not violating noise ordinances isn't also a part of citizenship? Smiley: clown


Also, I'm curious about the connection you're making there. Do you see paying taxes as an important part of citizenship because it ensures everyone has some vested interest in the costs of the government and the actions it takes with that money? Or is it just the act of filling out a tax form that matters to you? Because I see it as the former, but I suspect that for you it's the latter. At least that seems to be what you're arguing. Because you don't seem to care that I do pay my taxes and have paid more than my fair share over the period of time in question. You care about whether or not I filled out a piece of paper at the right time.

And if past arguments are any judge, you have no problem with people who fill out that piece of paper and the result is that they pay zero taxes, or who gain significantly more in direct government benefits than said tax burden. So it's not really "paying taxes" you think is important for citizenship at all. What is it then? Following orders? Filling out forms on time? Is that really the Jophiel measurement of good citizenship? To me, that seems a bit trivial.
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#55 Jun 19 2012 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Unless you've been paying extra cash to the treasury over the last several years (at least) in order to do your part to help fight rising deficits, then you are mistaken. You may think you would when asked the question in abstract, but I don't think you would in actual fact. You are free to pay more money than required to the treasury at any time. I don't see why someone would think they'd do that if the required amount was zero anymore than they do right now. Assuming you do believe that our deficit is something that we should reduce that is.

If tomorrow the government suggested that if everyone just voluntarily paid an extra $10k to the treasury each year we could eliminate our deficit, would you pay the extra amount? Not required to. No guarantee that anyone else will. Just you making a choice. Would you really do it? I don't think so. And you'd be right not to btw. There's a reason why people argue for higher or lower taxes, but not for people to voluntarily give or not give money to the government. I'm just being honest about it, while some seem to want to pretend that they're on some kind of high road.


You know, I always start composing all these long, drawn out responses to your responses to me, and every time I do, I just give up.

It is like trying to teach a light bulb to speak French. Starts off interesting,, but ultimately a waste of time.
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#56 Jun 19 2012 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
You're saying that not violating noise ordinances isn't also a part of citizenship? Smiley: clown
I previously wrote:
There's really no bridging that gap.

Your attempts to rationalize it away hasn't changed my opinion.
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#57 Jun 20 2012 at 7:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I'm just being honest about it, while some seem to want to pretend that they're on some kind of high road.
Your not paying your taxes at all is the same as people not voluntarily paying more than they're required to.
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#58 Jun 20 2012 at 8:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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If I didn't have to pay taxes I wouldn't. What I would do however is throw money in with the others on my street to have the road fixed, or toss some cash to the school to pay their teachers so my kids could go there, or toss some cash in a hat for little Jonny's crutches. I'd toss a bit more than my less fortunate neighbour just because it's the right thing to do. Of course, this would all have to be organized so we'd have to all come to an agreement on who manages the money and when the street next to us realized we were all doing the management work twice we'd just join up with them, eventually there'd be too many people to speak to individually so we'd have to hold some sort of manager selection system using public media as a sort of job application selection process. At some point we'd have to draft up some rules about how much money each person should put in and probably enforce them because some people are jerks...
#59 Jun 20 2012 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'm just being honest about it, while some seem to want to pretend that they're on some kind of high road.
Your not paying your taxes at all is the same as people not voluntarily paying more than they're required to.


Not to defend Baby Capone, but it's kind of hard not to pay taxes at all when you have a job that pays your taxes for you. He didn't not pay at all, he simply underpayed.
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#60 Jun 20 2012 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji's "defense" is this:

Imagine yourself at school. Your obligation is to perform the sum total of the schoolwork given during the day and your homework at night. You do the work during the day under the eyes of the teacher but decide the homework isn't worth your time and blow it off. At the end of the year, the teacher informs you that you'll be held back from graduating. You hurry up and spend Memorial Day weekend making up for all your missing homework.

Later, someone says you're not a very serious student. You protest "But I did MOST of my work! Everything the teacher directly made me do throughout the year when I had no choice, I did! So you can't claim that I didn't take it seriously!" They point out that the missing homework is exactly what made them think that, not the work you never had a chance to avoid. You protest "But when I was caught months and months later and forced to do it, I did it! I even had to give up a holiday weekend to avoid a worse punishment! So actually I'm even BETTER than most students because I suffered more for originally blowing off my work!"

They just shake their head and walk away, leaving you to your denial as you start saying it's no worse than using the bathroom without a hall pass or getting up to sharpen your pencil without raising your hand and, after all, no one did MORE work than they were assigned so how dare they judge you and ...

Edited, Jun 20th 2012 9:28am by Jophiel
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#61 Jun 20 2012 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
No. You pay because you are required to do so.

I understand that I operate under a different value system than you but, to me, paying taxes is part of "things you do as a citizen".

But you wouldn't pay them unless you were legally required to do so, right?


I would still pay them, even if it was a suggestion, and not a law, since I understand what they are for. I see them as paying for services that are needed for everyone. You know, Firemen, Policemen, Teachers, roads, etc. Things I like to have around, just in case I need them. Smiley: lol



Unless you've been paying extra cash to the treasury over the last several years (at least) in order to do your part to help fight rising deficits, then you are mistaken. You may think you would when asked the question in abstract, but I don't think you would in actual fact. You are free to pay more money than required to the treasury at any time. I don't see why someone would think they'd do that if the required amount was zero anymore than they do right now. Assuming you do believe that our deficit is something that we should reduce that is.

If tomorrow the government suggested that if everyone just voluntarily paid an extra $10k to the treasury each year we could eliminate our deficit, would you pay the extra amount? Not required to. No guarantee that anyone else will. Just you making a choice. Would you really do it? I don't think so. And you'd be right not to btw. There's a reason why people argue for higher or lower taxes, but not for people to voluntarily give or not give money to the government. I'm just being honest about it, while some seem to want to pretend that they're on some kind of high road.
Wow, the lengths you're willing to go to justify tax evasion......
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#62 Jun 20 2012 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Yes, Joph, I understand his defense is...non-existant...which is why I'm not trying to defend his defense. I was just responding to a few posters in this thread who have accused him of not paying taxes when it is much more accurate to say he didn't pay enough taxes.

In defense of the posting (still not defending what he did), Baby Capone did:
a) admit to what he did
b) admit it was really, really stupid
c) warn other people not to do the same thing
d) make things right and pay the penalties for his initial wrongdoing

Again, I'm not saying that makes what he did ok, just that he's no different than a convicted criminal who has served his prison time and been released.
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#63 Jun 20 2012 at 11:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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You could say, he's paid his debt to society.
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#64 Jun 20 2012 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Not to defend Baby Capone, but it's kind of hard not to pay taxes at all when you have a job that pays your taxes for you.
Ha ha, yeah. I've only been doing and filing my taxes for the last eleven years because it's fun.
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#65 Jun 20 2012 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Again, I'm not saying that makes what he did ok, just that he's no different than a convicted criminal who has served his prison time and been released.

I wouldn't be interested in, say, dog raising advice from Michael Vick despite him getting caught and serving his sentence. He's already shown through the actions that led to him getting caught that he's not someone I should respect in that arena. Likewise, I wouldn't respect the opinion of someone who knowingly evades paying their taxes (cue: "Oh, but he paid the ones he was forced to pay by his employer!") when it comes time to talk about taxes. Even if he did "make right" -- purely because he was caught years later and the government confiscated it against his will.
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#66 Jun 20 2012 at 11:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure I see you taking gbaji's advice either way.
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#67 Jun 20 2012 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
I'm not sure I see you taking gbaji's advice either way.

The best part is when he said "Alert the media" right after I did. I can always tell when a remark hits a nerve with him because he immediately tries to use it back Smiley: laugh

Admittedly I disagree with him considerably on substance. But I always at least assumed I was talking to someone who took his obligations seriously. Now I know that's not the case.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#68 Jun 20 2012 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Admittedly I disagree with him considerably on substance. But I always at least assumed I was talking to someone who took his obligations seriously. Now I know that's not the case.
See, I always knew since the rape thread that gbaji is, for all intents and purposes a sociopath. That surface Hey-I'm-just-a-regular-guy-ness, sense of entitlement yet complete lack of empathy or remorse, the boasting references to promiscuity... Of course I'm not saying he is a sociopath. I don't have the necessary degrees to be able to make that call.
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#69 Jun 20 2012 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't see anywhere in his post where he was giving tax advice. I simply saw Baby Capone using The Asylum like blogspot like so many other posters have done. Granted, he did attempt to defend his actions which I find indefensible.

And Lolgaxe, your last post made no sense.
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#70 Jun 20 2012 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I didn't see anywhere in his post where he was giving tax advice. I simply saw Baby Capone using The Asylum like blogspot like so many other posters have done. Granted, he did attempt to defend his actions which I find indefensible.


Pretty sure Joph is speaking to the entirety of gbaji's posting career. Forum search subject "taxes" author "gbaji" if you're in the mood for some reading material.
#71 Jun 20 2012 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
And Lolgaxe, your last post made no sense.
For what it's worth, neither did what you said, but at least I took the few seconds to work it out. Guess I'll spell it out for you like I'd have to for gbaji when he gets confused by jokes. *ahem* I was making fun of your complete lack of research and knowledge of a subject (IE: Taxes and armed forces) and your decision to make a comment about it anyway. My job doesn't "do my taxes for me." In fact, just the insistence of it makes parts of my frontal lobe feel numb. So your saying that it does, that would mean my doing taxes would have to be for another reason other than necessity. I admit, it wasn't a very good punchline, but when the set up is godawful sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and work with what you've got.
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#72 Jun 20 2012 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I didn't see anywhere in his post where he was giving tax advice. I simply saw Baby Capone using The Asylum like blogspot like so many other posters have done. Granted, he did attempt to defend his actions which I find indefensible.


Pretty sure Joph is speaking to the entirety of gbaji's posting career. Forum search subject "taxes" author "gbaji" if you're in the mood for some reading material.


Oh well in that case take that portion of my previous post with a grain of salt.
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#73 Jun 20 2012 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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And apparently I don't comprehend how not to double post.

Edited, Jun 20th 2012 3:21pm by Bigdaddyjug
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#74 Jun 20 2012 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
And Lolgaxe, your last post made no sense.
For what it's worth, neither did what you said, but at least I took the few seconds to work it out. Guess I'll spell it out for you like I'd have to for gbaji when he gets confused by jokes. *ahem* I was making fun of your complete lack of research and knowledge of a subject (IE: Taxes and armed forces) and your decision to make a comment about it anyway. My job doesn't "do my taxes for me." In fact, just the insistence of it makes parts of my frontal lobe feel numb. So your saying that it does, that would mean my doing taxes would have to be for another reason other than necessity. I admit, it wasn't a very good punchline, but when the set up is godawful sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and work with what you've got.


Now you're the one mis-understanding what somebody said. What I said is that most people have a job that PAYS taxes for them, whether they want said job to do that or not. The exception would be independent contractors and small business owners. I will admit I am ignorant of whether military personnel have taxes taken out of their checks or not. However, in this case that is irrelevent because I was referring to Gbaji's employment, which I believe I have read is with one of the national cellular service providers. I can assume with some pretty **** near certainty thata the company he works for is taking taxes out of his check (unless he runs his own small business as a retailer for 1 or more of said cellular providers).
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#75 Jun 20 2012 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I believe I have read is with one of the national cellular service providers.

Qualcomm actually, I believe.
Quote:
I didn't see anywhere in his post where he was giving tax advice.

That's okay. It also wasn't meant as a direct comparison to scour for loopholes or equivalencies either. I just grabbed the first well-known criminal who served his time.

Edited, Jun 20th 2012 3:33pm by Jophiel
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#76 Jun 20 2012 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I believe I have read is with one of the national cellular service providers.

Qualcomm actually, I believe.


Wait, Qualcomm is still in business? I thought they were out of business when I started in the business 8 years ago.

Note: I'm no longer in the wireless business.
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