Blizz Responds to Cataclysm Stat Change Confusion

Last week's announcement about the upcoming changes to the character stat system was a welcome surprise, but it left many players with more questions than they originally had.

Last week Blizzard finally delivered a semi-detailed explanation of the upcoming character stat changes scheduled to be introduced shortly before Cataclysm's official release. At BlizzCon 2009, the World of Warcraft development team revealed the news that the existing character stat system would be completely redesigned in the next expansion. We only received a smattering of details back then, indicating that, among other changes, modifiers like Spell Power and Attack Power would be rolled into base stats.

The details were all but speculation until last week, when Blizzard poster Eyonix announced the preliminary information in the official forums. The result is an itemized list of all game stats and combat mechanics outlined in several categories, including "What You’ll See on Gear," "Being Removed from Items," "Going Away Completely" and more. The announcement was well-received but, as expected, the player community unleashed a barrage of questions and concerns. Instead of spending a few hours scouring multiple forum threads and searching for individual "blue" responses, we've done most of the legwork for you; after the jump, you'll find Blizzard's answers to last week’s most commonly-asked questions from players.

As expected, Blizzard's original announcement at last summer’s BlizzCon left many WoW fans scratching their heads, eager to learn more about the upcoming changes to the character stat system. This is, after all, a collection of stats and combat mechanics that we've spent five years trying to master; the art of theorycrafting is a complex and almost religiously-scrutinized practice, as evidenced not only throughout our own forums but also in dedicated communities like the number-crunching tacticians at ElitistJerks.com.

The average WoW player won't have a detailed understanding of these gameplay mechanics by the time his or her first character reaches level 80, let alone all the newcomers who are left mystified by the complexity of things like damage mitigation, damage per cast time and MP/5…and therein lies the problem.

During the late-Burning Crusade era, the developers at Blizzard started to recognize that the character stat system and its underlying mechanics were becoming increasingly complex, especially with the addition of new stats like Armor Piercing and the branching-off of stats like Spell Hit Rating and Spell Haste. Blizzard occasionally applied band-aid fixes like the integration/disintegration of certain stats, but the overall system had become dangerously convoluted for the majority of players who weren't interested in studying tomes of information in order to participate in raids with a modicum of efficiency.

Or, as Blizzard explained it in the recent announcement:

As the game has matured, we've run into increasingly complex issues with the current stat system. Many stats are inherently confusing, and the way they interrelate can feel convoluted. […] Our ultimate goal is make gear a more interesting (and less confusing) choice by making each stat valuable to more players.

If you haven't already read about the specific changes to the character stat system and gear itemization, check out the full announcement in the aforementioned link. In this feature, we're interested in the most commonly-raised issues and concerns from players that followed the announcement. Blizzard posters Eyonix, Ghostcrawler and Nethaera have done a decent job of making good on their promise to answer the community's questions, so far.

One of the biggest concerns raised by players is the increase of Stamina for classes, specifically for cloth-wearing characters. Blizzard announced that "non-plate wearers will end up with more Stamina than before" so that "health pools will be much closer between plate-wearers and other classes." Casters and healers probably don't mind hearing this news, because it might mean they will gain a little survivability in situations like accidentally drawing aggro from a tank; perhaps they'll be able to take five or six hits before death, instead of one or two.

Some tanks didn't share the enthusiasm, though; many players interpreted this to mean that Blizzard was "homogenizing" classes to an extent that cloth- and leather-wearing characters might be potential off-tanks. In a few posts like this one, Ghostcrawler explained that tanking will still be a class-dependent role because of their superior damage mitigation and possession of stats like Parry and Block Rating. "We have a lot of room to bring them closer together while still leaving them very far apart," he said, in conclusion.

In a later post, Ghostcrawler explained that cloth-wearers in Cataclysm still won't have as much Armor as plate-wearing classes; instead of having one-fifth the armor value of plate-wearers, cloth-wearers might have around half the value of plate, he offered as an example. "Really, cloth isn't the issue, since cloth wearers have spells to buff their mitigation," he said. "Leather wearers are the ones who end up the most fragile. Mail would be bad too except that shaman[s] can use shields when needed and hunters typically don't get hit by melee much. We just want to bring things a little closer to each other. It's easier to establish a baseline for how hard a particular attack should hit for when one dps spec isn't literally four times as survivable as another."

In a post regarding the upcoming change to Block (blocked attacks will simply hit for 30 percent less damage), Eyonix addressed the fact that low-level mobs will soon be able to damage players no matter what their Block Rating is. "We don’t like that block allows certain tanks to trivialize older content," he said. "Older content is always going to be easy, but it was a little strange that warriors and paladins could literally take no damage with enough block while DKs still took some damage. Stats need to scale and this one wasn’t."

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How about changing the way items drop in raids then?
# Mar 15 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Ghostcrawler mentioned that...... Echoing Blizzard's desire for classes to wear the type of gear that's intended for them, he reminded players that they will receive a "small mastery bonus" for wearing the heaviest armor they can; Hunters wearing mail armor instead of leather will receive the bonus, for example.

Then CHANGE the drop system on raids/dungeons. A lot of people will actually "upgrade" using a non-intended gear piece as nothing else is dropping for their class or it actually does upgrade them to the spec that they are doing. Too many times we go into an instance with a DK tank and all that drops is Plate items when the rest of the party are in mail, leather, and cloth. Making the drops a bit more relevant to the party mix would increase the chance of people using the intended gear.
How about changing the way items drop in raids then?
# Mar 16 2010 at 7:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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93 posts
That's actually a good idea...I don't know why I've never heard that suggested before. It would help a lot even if Blizzard weighted 30 percent of the dungeon drops to a random piece of gear of the same armor type as the party members. Hmmmf...Seems so obvious...
Interesting Stuff
# Mar 10 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Default
While I think GC is somewhat over-estimating the non-squishyness of many cloth classes and specs he did confirm something I have felt for quite some time; Melee Leather wearers other than Bears are pretty much screwed (Rogues and Kitty's). Melee has become Plate Land. :(

The Stamina thing just does not bother me all that much. ::shrug:: More life won't make that much difference in PvE although it might in PvP.
ye gods people
# Mar 09 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
The game is dying?
Whole guilds leaving for new MMOs?
The new xpac sucks?

Maybe y'all should actually, oh, I dunno...
WAIT FOR THE FRICKIN' THING TO BE RELEASED?!

I find it amazing that people are rushing to pre-judge how this change and that change will affect their toons -
Blizz posters are admitting that THEY don't know how some things will fall out. And yet, swarms of so-called
dedicated players are condemning the currently HYPOTHETICAL expansion wholesale!

Hey, Chicken Little, guess what! Maybe you should wait for the WHOLE story before jumping to conclusions!
Cherries, chocolate, nuts, I sure miss vanilla.
# Mar 09 2010 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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343 posts
Yep, I get the stats some guru at Elitejerks and get them on my toon. I love those guys.
Yep, I'm just now getting my T9.5 and loving my pace. I don't raid, got too much in my life to play more than twice a week. No complaints as the game is so big that I don't lose intrest.
Yeah, change the look, change the zone name, change the build, I just look it up fokes. Most of the time here at Allakhazam to find the answers (love this place too!!)

There is a way that works the best and there's not. I stand on the sholders of giants when it comes to a video game. Thank you all for the hard work and time you have put into making this game so much fun for me in submiting the quest chains with cords and giving me the end loot to see if I really want to do that chain or not on Allakhazam or crunching the numbers on Elite!! Love you like no other.

NOW....What I want to know is how they are going to change the game so that I don't feel like I'm playing the same toon over and over again. Have a lvl 80 Shaman, 80 Priest, 80 Pally. LOL!!! I have 3 healers, or 3 DPS all in the same toons! I love my pally because she can tank. Alas, only 3 of the classes can tank still. Don't mind sharing it with a warrior so much. They are fun to play (though mine is only lvl 33, he's fun as all get out). DK's? They are ok. Whatever. So I kinda stand apart. I mean, really.... Priest, Pally, Druid, and Shamans can all heal and pretty much all do it well enough that I don't care which one gets in the group. Mage, Priest, Pally, Druid, Shaman, Death Knight, Rouge, Hunter..... they all can beat a stick well (dps) and the guy on top of the meter? Well, who's the best geared? So really... pick a class, any class! Hell, the racial is so close you can pick any one of those too! Remember when you wanted a mage because they were one of 2 crowd control classes? (Do you even know where your sheep button is?) Or you went Undead Priest for the extra dot in shadow? Or Warrior because you were the best MT out there?

Tell you what fokes! I'm looking for a game where I can pick a toon and stylize it, craft it, want it like the other 2 million of 11 million players feel about it. I'm a Paladin, and you want my tank skills WITH my utility that you can ONLY get from a paladin, (and I don't mean you can get from a Shaman also, just in a different spell name!).

WHAT'S YOUR GAME?
reforging is to allow taking other spec gear
# Mar 09 2010 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
the way I see it reforging is for cross gear. dps's that pick up healer gear can convert that spirit into something else that benefits them (although some may want to keep the spirit for mana regen). It seems to me this simplifies creating boss drops and simplifies gearing up for the players.

It still is preferrible to get gear for your spec however, but in a pinch a dps could take a healer item and reforge. Of course this could cause some grief in the pug world. We'll see. Anyways that's my impression of reforging. It's to make their lives easier (and ours)

One poster had a good comment, maybe they are making it easier so the game can be managed by less staff. That's only a smart business move as wow has Peaked. Saying it's dying is just silly. This game will easily be around in 10 years. 20 most likely. But I feel it has peaked with this expansion. Simplifying it so it doesn't take a billion people to create tier sets, boss mechanics, loot etc only makes sense.

Edited, Mar 9th 2010 4:08pm by thrashering
Exactly
# Mar 09 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
Exactly, and since I PVP and PVE I'll always be damned if I do..damned if I don't. Remember when shamans were "balanced" into a broken class that no one wanted for PVP or PVE, I do not want that to happen to Paladins (my Main). I went from being able to roflstomp wearing the Tuxedo "Set" to being killed by healers capable of fully healing themselves after I got them down ~60% health in one Hammer of Justice....I've watched as healers take on 4 pure dps and die only after running out of mana.

The whole PVP aspect of this game needs to be torn down and redone...Resilence+Stam gear was added in TBC to prevent one-shotting cloths, Armor Pen was added to counter Resilence-stacking, Resilence was changed to add additional damage mitigation to counter Armor Pen stacking to 100%. It's all pancaked ontop of each other and left the system heavily unstable where some classes can fair better than others. And instead of leaving them, Blizzard makes a drastic change that leaves players fleeing like rats on a sinking ship to other classes.....I'm seriously beginning to wonder if any of the Devs are good at PVP or PVE. "Just because your a plane mechanic; doesn't mean you're a pilot" comes to mind everytime they roll out a "balance" patch.


Side Note:
As for the post about this being a new game under an old title...sorry, but that's not entirely true. Blizzard is using the excuse that stats are confusing to simplify the game for THEM. This game has had a nice run, but it WILL die. And Blizzard is thinking ahead and making it easier to maintain a game with fewer dedicated staff members. Will it die this year? Probably not, but no company stays in business planning for the short term.
WoW 2
# Mar 09 2010 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
So let me get this straight new world, new stats, new mastery system, new races and new core mechanics for classes... sounds like a whole new game to me. Seems they just don't want to have to get a new player base it for so they are converting WoW into their new game. EQ to EQ2 anyone? That is one way to avoid having to shell out big bucks to build a buzz around it. Use the old name so everyone already knows. Apparantly Blizz thinks they learned were Sony went wrong and they are trying to sneak around it. I do know that on my server whole guilds are looking for new games because of this new game under an old name.
WoW 2
# Mar 09 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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77 posts
except we know this isnt going to be their new game because they have said that their new game will not be in any of their current universes (ie warcraft, diablo or starcraft) just because they are making major changes doesnt make it a new game
and i also know whole guilds of people that are extremely excited about the changes especially the guild leveling changes
so if they don't know
# Mar 09 2010 at 1:43 AM Rating: Default
So if they don't know all the answers then why in the hell change the stat system?

It seems to me that they are just sick of doing the conversion for DEF, HIT Rating, and EXP conversions.

The current system works and isn't broken.

An old saying is "If it isn't broke don't fix it!"

Don't jack this up Bliz.
so if they don't know
# Mar 09 2010 at 5:33 AM Rating: Good
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77 posts
because stats are becoming too confusing for them and us for example armor pen is the biggest one...multiple problems with armor pen first of all you never know how much it boosts your dps...attack power, haste, crit...are all fairly straight forward boosts - attack power gives straight up damage increase, haste gives straight up dps increase and crit gives a huge boost every so often (basically) but armor pen can give either a HUGE boost on a plate wearing boss or a tiny boost on a cloth wearing boss and so you are never sure whether its worth it and it has led to people creating armor pen sets and specs for certain bosses which is not a good mechanic and so its getting removed from gear
basically the system isnt broken so much as confusing and overcomplicated
it is also a problem for their designers because it means more and more gear they have to make and try to somehow get to the players and then people get left out and it just creates a lot of problems
so simplifying it like this is good for players and designers alike

and they probably dont have the answers now cause they have a LOT of stuff to work out and so even if they have some idea of what they are gonna do they arent likely to tell us until its a pretty firm idea and so there will be gaps in our knowledge...just dont judge it until we know what is happening and we dont just know bits and pieces of it
um...yeah..
# Mar 09 2010 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
Starting to really doubt the path this game is taking. With the semi-equalizing of health...where does that leave PVP. And it all starts with PVP and ends with PVE. So I don't want to hear the crap about "i don't care about pvp", because you will care.




....what's the next level after Faceroll? Because I think this game's going to "ding" in Cata.
um...yeah..
# Mar 09 2010 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
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77 posts
for one thing 'i dont care about pvp' now thats out the way...
this change wont really affect pvp anyway it will make it so clothies can actually survive a few hits without bubble or insanely high resil and it will make it so that plate wearers arent stupidly hard to kill in comparison
and dont you worry blizz are going to make sure pvp balances out again because if you look at the history of wow...pvp has always been (to the best of their abilities) balanced even at the cost of pve balance
Nice wrap-up
# Mar 08 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
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4,684 posts
Excellent article! I thought I was pretty much on top of everything but there was stuff in here I hadn't specifically heard yet, and seeing it all in a crystal-clear write-up like this made my life a lot easier. And the "The entire game is changing, don't worry about how talent X works with stat Y" message at the end is just a cherry on top of the cream, as I really felt that needed to be said in an article like this. My only beef with it is that some of the pictures in between have very little to no function at all, but otherwise, 't was a lovely read.

In regards to the piece on hit: judging from what I'm reading there I wouldn't be surprised if they made raid bosses 'level up' as well as you progress through specific tiers of content. Imagine Kel'Thuzad being a 83 elite, Yogg-Saron being a 85 elite, Anub'Arak 87 elite and the Lich King a 90 elite. This would make sure hit doesn't become completely obsolete after the cap while still allowing people to focus on other stats.

The only thing I'm still somewhat confused about is the reforging idea. Convert one stat to 50% of another stat. The idea sounds nice, but if they really change classes in such a way that all stats are beneficial, reforging will rarely be a good thing. Imagine getting a weapon with 100 haste and 100 crit as a DPS Death Knight. Currently, I can see myself swapping 100 haste for 50 crit, but if the worth of haste is indeed so much closer to the worth of crit in Cataclysm, then making the jump is in the long run going to be too much of a 'throwaway' to make it worthwhile. If "The goal is to make all the stats that appear on your gear attractive," then will there be a situation where one stat is literally worth twice as much as another stat? Or am I misreading this and would the conversion be from 100 haste / 100 crit to 50 haste / 150 crit instead? Anyway, though obviously we don't know the details on it yet, I'm curious as to how this will work out.
Nice wrap-up
# Mar 08 2010 at 11:35 PM Rating: Good
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77 posts
i think that the main use i can see for reforging purely on the info we currently have will be hit to whatever
if you are just over the hit cap (assuming it still exists) this will let you convert some of that hit into crit or haste or whatever
plus there are still going to be people that focus on crit or haste or whatever no matter what
Nice wrap-up
# Mar 09 2010 at 2:54 AM Rating: Decent
I'm not sure you read the post - after this you're not going to anywhere near the hit cap unless you're geared for one tier, and revisiting the one before.
Nice wrap-up
# Mar 09 2010 at 5:25 AM Rating: Decent
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77 posts
ill admit i didnt read the whole post i skimmed through it however either way it just goes to show you cant judge anything until you know all the info (ie its been implemented)
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