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The Hobbit RevisitedFollow

#52 Jan 10 2013 at 1:46 AM Rating: Good
Yeah, I had to look it up too when a friend mentioned that Aragorn was around at the time of the Hobbit. Also, Pold ninja'd that in while I was googling.
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#53 Jan 10 2013 at 1:53 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Also, Pold ninja'd that in while I was googling.
I am the office ninja, after all. Smiley: grin

I knew he was longer lived than normal humans, thanks to a couple Tolkien fanatics I used to raid with, but I didn't know his exact age, so I had to look it up just now to give a precise answer.
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#54 Jan 10 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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TherealLogros wrote:
Mazra wrote:
I was sweating and breathing hard an hour into the movie.


This makes it sound like you were watching 'The Hobbit - The XXX Parody'. Smiley: lol


Thank you for those mental images. Movie ruined.

Seriously, though, the fact that Frodo and Sam aren't in The Hobbit makes it tons better. Whenever I decide against re-watching The Lord of the Rings, it's because I remember that there are long ass scenes of Frodo and Sam trudging through a swamp while being total crybabies. I get that it's about Frodo and Sam fighting against the Ring's influence, but I just hate those scenes. And I don't mind Elijah as an actor (he was awesome in Sin City), it's just terribly boring. Aragorn, Gandalf and the others are preparing for action, there's cool sounds and battles and all, but then Peter Jackson decides to cut to a 20-minute sequence of two dudes bitching about everything while climbing up some stairs and falling down some stairs. Why would he do that? Why?! Smiley: frown
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#55 Jan 10 2013 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
And of those two, Sam just sucked it up and dealt with it way better than Frodo.
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#56 Jan 10 2013 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Wait, how would it be possible for Aragorn to be involved in anything going on during the Hobbit's timeline? Bilbo is supposed to be around 50 when the story starts. I started re-reading Lord of the Rings a couple weeks ago, and it says that Bilbo and Frodo share a birthday, and Frodo was turning 30 (age of maturity) at Bilbo's 111th. Then he doesn't even start HIS journey until he's 50. So even putting Aragorn at 20 years old during the events of the Hobbit, that would make him 110 years old once he meets up with Frodo... Have they ever mentioned that humans in the Tolkien universe live longer than us?


My understanding is that 60 years pass between the end of the Hobbit and the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring (when Bilbo celebrates his 111th birthday). Now, there's also a number of years that actually pass between that and when Gandalf tells Frodo to flee the Shire (which appear to be just months apart in the film). IIRC, it's 17. So Aragorn would have been about 20 at the time of the events in the Hobbit.

This shed's a bit of light:

Quote:
The son of Arathorn II and his wife Gilraen, Aragorn was born on 1 March, T.A. 2931.[1] Through his ancestor Elendil (whom he closely resembled)[2] Aragorn was a descendant of the first king of Númenor, Elros Tar-Minyatur; the twin brother of Elrond.

When Aragorn was two years old, his father was killed while pursuing orcs. Aragorn was afterwards fostered in Rivendell by Elrond. At the request of his mother, his lineage was kept secret, as she feared he would be killed like his father and grandfather if his true identity as Isildur's heir became known. Aragorn was renamed Estel ("hope" in Tolkien's invented language of Sindarin) to hide his existence from Sauron and his servants. He was not told about his heritage until he came of age in 2951.

Elrond revealed to Aragorn his true name and ancestry, and delivered to him the shards of Elendil's sword Narsil, and also the Ring of Barahir. He withheld the Sceptre of Annúminas from him until he "came of the right" to possess it. Aragorn met and fell in love with Arwen, Elrond's daughter (whom he mistook for Tinúviel), when she had returned from Lórien, her mother's homeland.

Aragorn thereafter assumed his role as the sixteenth Chieftain of the Dúnedain, the Rangers of the North, and went into the wild, living with the remnants of his people, whose kingdom had been destroyed through civil and regional wars centuries before.

Aragorn met Gandalf the Grey in 2956, and they became close friends. At Gandalf's request, the Rangers began to guard the Shire, inhabited by the diminutive and agrarian Hobbits. In the areas around the Shire and Bree he became known as "Strider".

From 2957 to 2980, Aragorn undertook great journeys, serving in the armies of King Thengel of Rohan (King Théoden's father) and of Steward Ecthelion II of Gondor (father of Denethor). His tasks helped to raise morale in the West and to counter the growing threat of Sauron and his allies, and he acquired experience that he would later put to use in the War of the Ring. Aragorn served his lords during that time under the name Thorongil (Eagle of the Star). With a small squadron of Gondorian ships, he led an assault on Umbar in 2980, burning many of the Corsairs' ships and personally slaying their lord during the Battle of the Havens. After the victory at Umbar, "Thorongil" left the field, to the dismay of his men, and went East.


So when he turned 20, he became Chieftain of the Dunedain. My understanding is that he is peripherally involved in fighting the forces of the Necromancer during this time period (which is more or less around when the Hobbit occurs). 5 years later, Gandalf asks him to guard the Shire. So it would not be out of the realm of the unusual to introduce this fact in the last of the three Hobbit films as part of the wrap up of the Necromancer plotline (now that they've figured out who he is, Gandalf sets Aragorn the task of keeping an eye on things in the Shire for him). This could nicely explain why Aragorn just happens to be hanging out at the Prancing Pony when Frodo shows up. It's not random chance. He's supposed to be there to keep an eye on things.

They could just as easily leave him out of it, but if they wanted to introduce a young Aragorn and show him going from young leader of a band of hill warriors to someone working for Gandalf and in the know in terms of Sauron, they certainly could.
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#57 Jan 10 2013 at 9:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I seem to recall (and this may not be accurate, it's been a few years since I've read the books) that Aragorn is 78 when the Lord of the Rings takes place. Not all humans in the Tolkien's world as a long lived as he is. The Numenorians were very close with the first Elves to come Middle Earth and learned many things from them. The relationship with the Elves eventually changed them, they became stronger and longer lived than most humans. Not many pure blood Numenorians are left, but the ones that are still around, like Aragorn, can live for a couple of hundred years or so. After the Lord of the Rings, when Aragorn becomes king, he lives for at least another 50 years.
#58 Jan 10 2013 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
Aragorn is 189 - give or take a year - at his time of death.


Give or take, as the month of his birth and death aren't listed.




Didn't anyone besides me read the appendix?


ETA:He's 87, not 78.



Edited, Jan 10th 2013 10:27pm by Bijou
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#60 Jan 11 2013 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Wait, how would it be possible for Aragorn to be involved in anything going on during the Hobbit's timeline? Bilbo is supposed to be around 50 when the story starts. I started re-reading Lord of the Rings a couple weeks ago, and it says that Bilbo and Frodo share a birthday, and Frodo was turning 30 (age of maturity) at Bilbo's 111th. Then he doesn't even start HIS journey until he's 50. So even putting Aragorn at 20 years old during the events of the Hobbit, that would make him 110 years old once he meets up with Frodo... Have they ever mentioned that humans in the Tolkien universe live longer than us?


My understanding is that 60 years pass between the end of the Hobbit and the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring (when Bilbo celebrates his 111th birthday). Now, there's also a number of years that actually pass between that and when Gandalf tells Frodo to flee the Shire (which appear to be just months apart in the film). IIRC, it's 17. So Aragorn would have been about 20 at the time of the events in the Hobbit.


That is almost exactly what I said. Smiley: tongue

Quote:
This shed's a bit of light:

Quote:
The son of Arathorn II and his wife Gilraen, Aragorn was born on 1 March, T.A. 2931.[1] Through his ancestor Elendil (whom he closely resembled)[2] Aragorn was a descendant of the first king of Númenor, Elros Tar-Minyatur; the twin brother of Elrond.

When Aragorn was two years old, his father was killed while pursuing orcs. Aragorn was afterwards fostered in Rivendell by Elrond. At the request of his mother, his lineage was kept secret, as she feared he would be killed like his father and grandfather if his true identity as Isildur's heir became known. Aragorn was renamed Estel ("hope" in Tolkien's invented language of Sindarin) to hide his existence from Sauron and his servants. He was not told about his heritage until he came of age in 2951.

Elrond revealed to Aragorn his true name and ancestry, and delivered to him the shards of Elendil's sword Narsil, and also the Ring of Barahir. He withheld the Sceptre of Annúminas from him until he "came of the right" to possess it. Aragorn met and fell in love with Arwen, Elrond's daughter (whom he mistook for Tinúviel), when she had returned from Lórien, her mother's homeland.

Aragorn thereafter assumed his role as the sixteenth Chieftain of the Dúnedain, the Rangers of the North, and went into the wild, living with the remnants of his people, whose kingdom had been destroyed through civil and regional wars centuries before.

Aragorn met Gandalf the Grey in 2956, and they became close friends. At Gandalf's request, the Rangers began to guard the Shire, inhabited by the diminutive and agrarian Hobbits. In the areas around the Shire and Bree he became known as "Strider".

From 2957 to 2980, Aragorn undertook great journeys, serving in the armies of King Thengel of Rohan (King Théoden's father) and of Steward Ecthelion II of Gondor (father of Denethor). His tasks helped to raise morale in the West and to counter the growing threat of Sauron and his allies, and he acquired experience that he would later put to use in the War of the Ring. Aragorn served his lords during that time under the name Thorongil (Eagle of the Star). With a small squadron of Gondorian ships, he led an assault on Umbar in 2980, burning many of the Corsairs' ships and personally slaying their lord during the Battle of the Havens. After the victory at Umbar, "Thorongil" left the field, to the dismay of his men, and went East.


So when he turned 20, he became Chieftain of the Dunedain. My understanding is that he is peripherally involved in fighting the forces of the Necromancer during this time period (which is more or less around when the Hobbit occurs). 5 years later, Gandalf asks him to guard the Shire. So it would not be out of the realm of the unusual to introduce this fact in the last of the three Hobbit films as part of the wrap up of the Necromancer plotline (now that they've figured out who he is, Gandalf sets Aragorn the task of keeping an eye on things in the Shire for him). This could nicely explain why Aragorn just happens to be hanging out at the Prancing Pony when Frodo shows up. It's not random chance. He's supposed to be there to keep an eye on things.

They could just as easily leave him out of it, but if they wanted to introduce a young Aragorn and show him going from young leader of a band of hill warriors to someone working for Gandalf and in the know in terms of Sauron, they certainly could.
[/quote]

That at least was interesting.
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#61 Jan 11 2013 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Turin wrote:
I seem to recall (and this may not be accurate, it's been a few years since I've read the books) that Aragorn is 78 when the Lord of the Rings takes place. Not all humans in the Tolkien's world as a long lived as he is. The Numenorians were very close with the first Elves to come Middle Earth and learned many things from them. The relationship with the Elves eventually changed them, they became stronger and longer lived than most humans. Not many pure blood Numenorians are left, but the ones that are still around, like Aragorn, can live for a couple of hundred years or so. After the Lord of the Rings, when Aragorn becomes king, he lives for at least another 50 years.


The Numenorians are the descendants of Elrond's twin brother. Both were given the choice of living as elf or man after their parents did some great thing or other (recovered one of the Simarils I think?). Numenor was an island the human son was given as reward. There were 25 kings in the succession of Numenor, but they eventually fell to corruption and started helping out Morgol (Sauron's boss basically). Some of the line remained loyal to the good guys, so when the gods (more or less) destroyed the island in a great wave, they were allowed to wash upon the shores of Middle Earth. There, they founded the kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor. Both kingdoms went through a series of troubles and wars (including the whole Sauron and the rings bit), ultimately leading to the fall of Arnor, and the slow decay of Gondor and the failure of the line of kings. Aragorn is descendant of both lines of kings, which is why he's able to claim both the throne of Gondor and rebuild the kingdom of Arnor.


As an interesting side note, since Arwen is Elrond's daughter, she is also Aragorn's cousin (but about 60 someodd generations on the human side removed).
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#62 Jan 11 2013 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
There were 25 kings in the succession of Numenor, but they eventually fell to corruption and started helping worshiping Morgol Morgoth/Melkor (Sauron's boss basically).
Fix'd

Sauron implied that worship of Morgoth/Melkor would extend their life spans, something that they were seeking after and ultimately what led to the attack on the realm of the Valar which triggered the destruction of Numenor.
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#63 Jan 11 2013 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
Both were given the choice of living as elf or man after their parents did some great thing or other (recovered one of the Simarils I think?).
They traveled to the land of the Valar to seek their help in the war against Morgoth. So, saved the world.Smiley: nod


As a side-note, Earendil (Elrond's dad) was unable to return to middle earth afterwards. They put him in a "sky-boat" with the Silmaril on the bow. So when you look up and see Venus? That's Earendil.Smiley: schooled


ETA: It was his grandparents, Beren and Luthien who recovered the Silmaril.


Edited, Jan 12th 2013 12:22pm by Bijou
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#64 Jan 14 2013 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Morgoth. Right. Always get the names mixed up.

Didn't Earindil's wife (Elwing, Had to look that up) have one of the Simaril's in her possession though? I thought there was a rival faction of Elves who came to steal it, and she threw herself into the sea with it, but then was transformed into a bird and flew to Eerindil's ship, where they bore it to the Valar for safe keeping and that's why they were rewarded and their sons were offered the choice (with the mortal son further being rewarded with the whole island kingdom for him and his followers when they helped fight the bad guys later on). Been awhile, so some of the details are fuzzy. I just remember that there were two sets of elf and men pairings. Earindil's wife was actually a descendant of the first pairing Beren and Luthien.

Another bit that always confuses things is that there's two significant names in Aragon's lineage that are hard to tell apart unless you're reading them. Elindil is Isildur's father. So often when they talk about Aragorn being the "heir of Elindil", that's who they're talking about (he's the guy who was killed and who's sword was broken that Isildur then picked up and sliced Sauron with). The "Star of Earindil", is a bit of the light of the Simaril (or the trees the Simarils represented? Always been a bit fuzzy on that as well), that Earindil was granted and which shines from his mystical ship sailing in the heavens (sorta). When Galadriel gives Frodo a phial with the "light of Earindil", that's got a small portion of the light from that star. Magic and all that. Frodo was honestly the biggest twink of them all if you think about it.

Anyway, when you hear the names, it's hard to tell them apart. Aragorn is descended from both men. One of them was kinda given angelic status though and sails a magical ship around the heavens, while the other was just a guy who died in battle, but was considered the last of the great kings. Not that there aren't a whole huge list of annoyingly similar names in Tolkien's world, but for those who've only watched the films, those are two that might be easily confused.
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#65 Jan 16 2013 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
Morgoth. Right. Always get the names mixed up.Didn't Earindil's wife (Elwing, Had to look that up) have one of the Simaril's in her possession though?
Yes. That's the one in the sky. The other two were stolen by the sons of Feanor and ended up in the earth (a fiery pit, iirc) and the ocean.


ETA: Aragorn was 210 at time of death.



Math is hard.Smiley: frown


Edited, Jan 16th 2013 6:56pm by Bijou
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