Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

The Best Immigration PolicyFollow

#1 Jul 07 2014 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,595 posts
In the midst of what some are calling an immigration crisis with thousands of unaccompanied youths showing up at the border, our law-makers are, again, not going to act on immigration reform. That doesn't mean we can't second-guess their unlaid plans

From completely closed to completely open, where is best place to split the lines of immigrants being allowed, disallowed, regulated or financially supported?

Keep in mind that the population growth by birth in the US has pretty much plateaued and even has been decreasing. Fertility rates are down to about 1.87 babes/woman.

The Congressional Budget Office put out a report that claims the Senate Immigration Reform Bill (The Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act) could reduce the federal deficit by a couple hundred-billion over the next decade.
Quote:
The legislation would increase spending while increasing tax revenue even more, thus yielding overall budgetary savings and smaller deficits. The higher spending would largely go toward refundable tax credits and health care for new residents, while the increased revenue would result from a substantially larger workforce. According to the CBO, immigration reform would grow the population by 10.4 million people by 2023, with 6 million of those new residents participating in the labor force. Those new workers would pay Social Security and Medicare taxes as well as contribute to general income taxes.


Of course that's assuming you can create jobs for the additional 6mil peeps. I'm not sure that will happen within the current economic climate of the country. Still, not being able to employ peeps is not an immigration problem, it's an economic problem.

I hear there's another government shut down being tossed around - go go Congressional Gridlock.




Edited, Jul 7th 2014 8:50pm by Elinda
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#2 Jul 07 2014 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
******
49,824 posts
A substantially larger workforce currently means people will have to go further down the street to get a better job in the mines.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#3 Jul 07 2014 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,595 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
A substantially larger workforce currently means people will have to go further down the street to get a better job in the mines.

They could mend our broken bridges, both literally and figuratively. But bridge-mending money has stalled.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#4 Jul 07 2014 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
Lunatic
******
30,084 posts
The legislation would increase spending while increasing tax revenue even more

Mathematically impossible! Everyone knows the only way to increase tax revenue is to cut taxes.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#5 Jul 07 2014 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
******
20,518 posts
I think the best policy is to close off entirely. Like a dome. Complete isolation; we can learn to survive on our own resources and let the rest of the world fuck itself to death.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#6 Jul 07 2014 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,982 posts
Elinda wrote:
In the midst of what some are calling an immigration crisis with thousands of unaccompanied youths showing up at the border, our law-makers are, again, not going to act on immigration reform. That doesn't mean we can't second-guess their unlaid plans


Honestly though, while we can (and should) discuss immigration reform ideas, these should be disconnected from the current "crisis" involving minors arriving at our borders in unprecedented numbers. That is the direct result of Obama's DACA program (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals). The problem is that Obama advertised (loudly even) to the world that illegal immigrant minors would not be deported from the US. Not a surprise to anyone with a brain what would happen.

Addressing that crisis needs to start with reversing that decision. To his credit, Obama has made a few public statements to try to send the message that this isn't really a free ride, and minors should not attempt to use the program in this way, but the damage is still largely done. Also, to my knowledge, while he's made those public statements, he hasn't actually changed the policy. So you kinda can't blame these kids (their parents really) for showing up unattended in record numbers. While it's not a fast pass to citizenship, by not being deported, it puts their foot in the door for themselves and the rest of their family down the line.

Start there first IMO. Then we can get back to looking at broader immigration reform. I just don't think that we should be allowing a crisis to influence how we approach something that this large in scope.

Quote:
From completely closed to completely open, where is best place to split the lines of immigrants being allowed, disallowed, regulated or financially supported?


There's a whole bunch of different aspects of the larger issue of immigration reform. I personally am in favor of some kind of guest worker visa program, designed to address the illegal immigrant aspect of the issue. Unfortunately, there are people on both sides of the political aisle who don't want this solution, so it's an uphill battle at best.

Um... And having said that myself, I'll also point out that there really are more than just two "sides" to this issue. It's a lot more complicated and has a lot of different aspects.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#7 Jul 07 2014 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
gbaji wrote:
Also, to my knowledge, while he's made those public statements, he hasn't actually changed the policy.

Nor should he. It's good policy.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#8 Jul 07 2014 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,982 posts
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Also, to my knowledge, while he's made those public statements, he hasn't actually changed the policy.

Nor should he. It's good policy.


Then don't call a hundred thousand unaccompanied minors showing up at our borders a crisis. It's Obama's policy "working as intended", right?

Edited, Jul 7th 2014 4:25pm by gbaji
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#9 Jul 07 2014 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Working as intended? Well, it is for the people it's intended to assist. As for this supposed consequence, it should be addressed but it doesn't make DACA poor policy nor should DACA be ended because of it.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#10 Jul 07 2014 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,982 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Working as intended? Well, it is for the people it's intended to assist. As for this supposed consequence, it should be addressed but it doesn't make DACA poor policy nor should DACA be ended because of it.


It's an unavoidable consequence of the policy. If you advertise a free ice cream stand, you should not be shocked when people line up to get free ice cream. WTF?
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#11 Jul 07 2014 at 5:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Well, if that's your best understanding of it then I guess we're done here Smiley: laugh
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#12 Jul 07 2014 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,982 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Well, if that's your best understanding of it then I guess we're done here Smiley: laugh


How about you show some understanding of the policy yourself and make an attempt to counter what I said? Yeah. Crazy idea. I know.

How exactly do you suppose that a policy that says that we will not deport minors here illegally isn't responsible for the massive increase in unaccompanied minors we're experiencing? There's a pretty clear cause and effect relationship here. Now, if you're fine with that consequence, then say you're fine with it. But ignoring that consequence or claiming that it isn't really a consequence of the policy at all is just burying your head in the sand.


Why do you suppose the number of unaccompanied minors has increased so dramatically (like an order of magnitude increase)? It just randomly happened? That's crazy.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#13 Jul 07 2014 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
gbaji wrote:
How about you show some understanding of the policy yourself and make an attempt to counter what I said? Yeah. Crazy idea. I know.

Because you didn't say anything showing any understanding to counter. I'm really supposed to debate how it's not like free ice cream?
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#14 Jul 07 2014 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
13,230 posts
Obama care is like free ice cream. Everybody loves ice cream.

Check, and mate.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#15 Jul 07 2014 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,982 posts
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
How about you show some understanding of the policy yourself and make an attempt to counter what I said? Yeah. Crazy idea. I know.

Because you didn't say anything showing any understanding to counter. I'm really supposed to debate how it's not like free ice cream?


No. Debate how it's not an advertisement saying "send your children to the US and we wont deport them". Cause... wait for it... that's exactly what the **** policy is. How can you be surprised when people send their children to the US?

If you disagree that this is what the policy is, or you disagree that this is how people outside the US might respond to that policy, then by all means attempt to make those claims and defend them. But you're just saying "that's not it" over and over and refusing to say what "it" is.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#16 Jul 07 2014 at 10:15 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
gbaji wrote:
No. Debate how it's not an advertisement saying "send your children to the US and we wont deport them".

Oh. Well, probably because the policy only applies to children who have been continuously in the US since 2007 so anyone showing up now is about seven years too late. That was easy!
Quote:
Cause... wait for it... that's exactly what the **** policy is.

Right. If you know nothing more about the policy than little soundbites someone told you like "It's like free ice cream!" then this is probably what you think. Now that we know that neither Guatemalan parents nor conservative tools know how to use Google, I think we've identified a big part of the problem. Hint: It's not with the policy itself but rather with the ignorant who make assumptions about it.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#17 Jul 08 2014 at 5:46 AM Rating: Good
Lunatic
******
30,084 posts
Not a surprise to anyone with a brain what would happen.

Were you excited to be so surprised? I bet that was super fun!
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#18 Jul 08 2014 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,595 posts
I think one would rather not conjure up an image of an excited gbaji.

Here's a thrill....


Edited, Jul 8th 2014 2:54pm by Elinda
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#19 Jul 08 2014 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
Supreme Lionator
*****
14,174 posts
I don't get it.
____________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
#20 Jul 08 2014 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
******
49,824 posts
Timelordwho wrote:
Obama care is like free ice cream. Everybody loves ice cream.
Obamacare is like green eggs and ham.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#21 Jul 08 2014 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,400 posts
Elinda wrote:
From completely closed to completely open, where is best place to split the lines of immigrants being allowed, disallowed, regulated or financially supported?
In a perfect world we'd have a more open immigration problem and work to solve the instability in Central America that's driving people to risk their lives to come here.

In reality we have no appetite for foreign intervention right now, and its doubtful we'd really solve any problems by getting involved anyway. The best we could probably hope for is turning a couple of countries into corrupted military states dependent on foreign aid. Maybe we could get them to implement some strong border security around their lands making them a road block to Northward migration. That would help alleviate some of the problem at least, and would keep us from having to deal with the problem ourselves.

I mean we could deploy the military all along the border and shoot lots of people, but that has political problems written all over it. Our people would feel bad, Mexico would throw a hissy fit, and the bleeding hearts all over the world would campaign against us killing innocent people who are just struggling to stay alive. It seems there's not really a good solution in the end of course, which I imagine is why no one actually does anything about it.

I say we welcome everyone who wants in, and then move to Canada.


____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#22 Jul 08 2014 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
There's really no "fixing" the problems in Central and South America from an external sense. The primary problem is government corruption which is surprisingly difficult to fix with F-22s.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#23 Jul 08 2014 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,400 posts
Which is why we have to use the corruption to our benefit. Prop up some Saddam Hussein like person to act as a buffer, and then dispose of him once he gets uppity. Shame there's not more oil in the region. We need something to help fund this endeavor. Is there anything in Guatemala we can exploit?

This has worked in Central America before right? Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Jul 8th 2014 9:21am by someproteinguy
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#24 Jul 08 2014 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
someproteinguy wrote:
We need something to help fund this endeavor. Is there anything in Guatemala we can exploit?

Bananas and coffee are the traditional choices. Worked in 1899, no reason it couldn't work today.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#25 Jul 08 2014 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
******
49,824 posts
Cocaine.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#26 Jul 08 2014 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,400 posts
Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
We need something to help fund this endeavor. Is there anything in Guatemala we can exploit?

Bananas and coffee are the traditional choices. Worked in 1899, no reason it couldn't work today.
Coffee could work, people like to buy overpriced drinks. Do you think Starbucks would be on board with it? Maybe them and Dunkin could carve out regions of influence, or we could give Tim Horton a token chunk of land and call it a NATO intervention.

Anyway I thought cocaine was more of a South American thing?
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 1 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (1)