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Well, I guess we did break up the Soviet Union...
Just as Planned.
Timelordwho wrote:
Well, I guess we did break up the Soviet Union...
and we have a done a pretty decent job in the Middle East and Africa as well.
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Africa was done in by Europe. But we all sliced and diced the Middle East.
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
You got me.
Well, yeah. I'm not saying you're wrong for being more invested but you definitely are. That's fine and all but you seem to think I share your zeal here when really I'm just having a laugh at your strange notions of how international affairs work. No offense to the fine vodka farmers of the Crimean peninsula but I don't terribly care if they end the month Ukrainian, Russian or Congolese.
Thats nice, I am invested in the politics of my Country, I don't agree that my government should on one hand attempt to promote democracy, while on the other hand say it only counts if its the outcome we support. Personally I don't care where Crimea ends up, I don't care if Ukraine gets split in half. I do care that my government has already made it clear that "we" will not respect the democratic decision of the people of Crimea. It makes my Country look incredibly weak as a proponent of Democracy in the world.
Edited, Mar 8th 2014 4:23pm by rdmcandie
This is what democracy looks like to you?
Just as Planned.
So in about two weeks Crimea is gonna be lead by Pat Buchanan?
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
Timelordwho wrote:
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
Potentially (again, didn't we fight a war over this?). Or, at the very least, the break should be negotiated better than "Welp, we decided we're Russia now.. see ya" with a line draw just a sitcom couple who runs tape down the apartment and one person lays claim to the bathroom and the other one has the kitchen.
You're the same guy who claimed Israel's right to exist validated it's excursions into Lebanon, though, correct? A country whose borders were literally drawn up arbitrarily by people in London. A country populated by a population that was essentially exiled and ghettoized without a voice. So THAT'S fine. If Crimeans want to be Russian, though, ha ha ha silly it doesn't work that way, you didn't have the sanction of the US or Western Europe. Surely the US should decide policy in Ukraine!
We both agree realpolitik means democracy has never mattered anywhere, including the US, but if we're going to play pretend that it somehow does, let's at least be consistent, eh?
You're the same guy who claimed Israel's right to exist validated it's excursions into Lebanon, though, correct? A country whose borders were literally drawn up arbitrarily by people in London. A country populated by a population that was essentially exiled and ghettoized without a voice. So THAT'S fine. If Crimeans want to be Russian, though, ha ha ha silly it doesn't work that way, you didn't have the sanction of the US or Western Europe. Surely the US should decide policy in Ukraine!
We both agree realpolitik means democracy has never mattered anywhere, including the US, but if we're going to play pretend that it somehow does, let's at least be consistent, eh?
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
So my support of a nation to defend a border that was created decades before my birth means that now I should support splitting whatever nation today? Huh, okay then.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
So my support of a nation to defend a border that was created decades before my birth means that now I should support splitting whatever nation today? Huh, okay then.
Not at all. I had assumed you had judged Israel's creation as a nation state as valid because of the right of self determination even of a diaspora of people over their homeland. If the standard was "welp, they're a country now, aint they" that's different. I guess we'll all just have to check back in in 20 years or so to see what became of Crimea before we can decide they have the right to determine how they're governed and by whom.
Not at all. I had assumed you had judged Israel's creation as a nation state as valid because of the right of self determination even of a diaspora of people over their homeland. If the standard was "welp, they're a country now, aint they" that's different. I guess we'll all just have to check back in in 20 years or so to see what became of Crimea before we can decide they have the right to determine how they're governed and by whom.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Mom and Dad are fighting. 
Shh, it'll be okay. Here's a lullaby for you.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Timelordwho wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
You got me.
Well, yeah. I'm not saying you're wrong for being more invested but you definitely are. That's fine and all but you seem to think I share your zeal here when really I'm just having a laugh at your strange notions of how international affairs work. No offense to the fine vodka farmers of the Crimean peninsula but I don't terribly care if they end the month Ukrainian, Russian or Congolese.
Thats nice, I am invested in the politics of my Country, I don't agree that my government should on one hand attempt to promote democracy, while on the other hand say it only counts if its the outcome we support. Personally I don't care where Crimea ends up, I don't care if Ukraine gets split in half. I do care that my government has already made it clear that "we" will not respect the democratic decision of the people of Crimea. It makes my Country look incredibly weak as a proponent of Democracy in the world.
Edited, Mar 8th 2014 4:23pm by rdmcandie
This is what democracy looks like to you?
You mean from this source? http://www.rada.crimea.ua/textdoc/ru/6/act/1702pr.pdf
Rada works but that source linked in the Kiev times doesn't go anywhere. Im not saying it isn't legit, hard to validate though when the documents source doesn't exist.
and if that is in fact what it is. Then no that isn't very democratic.
Edited, Mar 11th 2014 11:15pm by rdmcandie
Edit After spending some effort to get to the website here is an English Translation of the text.
Appendix 1
to the Resolution of the Verkhovna Rada
Autonomous Republic of Crimea
on March 6, 2014 â„– 1702-6/14
to vote on the referendum March 16, 2014
Â
 1) Do you support the reunification of the Crimea with Russia on rights
subject of the Russian Federation?
Â
Â
2) Do you support the restoration of the Constitution
Republic of Crimea in 1992 and as part of the status of
Ukraine?
Â
 Newsletter, which left unmarked or marked both choices,
considered invalid.
Â
Bulletin manufactured size 210 x 150 mm on a paper white.
After some further research
In May 1992 Crimean Constitution states that Crimea is an Independent state of Ukraine.
In June 1992 Kiev ordered Crimea to remove that portion and become an Autonomous Republic within Ukraine.
Option 1) Join the Russian Federation
Option 2) Restore the Constitution AS PART OF Ukraine.
(Either as an independent state...or as an autonomous state...the difference really being Kiev would have no control over Crimea in the Former and Marginal control over Crimea in the latter.)
~I assume that this would be returning to Independent state OF Ukraine. (May 1992 Constitution)~
Doesn't seem that bad to me.
1) Leave.
2) Stay.
Hardly the:
Leave Now
Leave Later
Options the media is swinging at the moment.Not that it matters because the Leave now is going to win hands down anyway.
(Also I seriously just spent like 3 hours trying to get through to a Ukrainian Government website...@#%^ this sh*t im done.)
Edited, Mar 12th 2014 3:02am by rdmcandie
Edited, Mar 12th 2014 3:11am by rdmcandie
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Last time they voted for secession, it was 10-20% of the vote.
It will be "interesting" to see how this vote goes with Russia troops at the polling stations.
It will be "interesting" to see how this vote goes with Russia troops at the polling stations.
Just as Planned.
Timelordwho wrote:
Last time they voted for secession, it was 10-20% of the vote.
It will be "interesting" to see how this vote goes with Russia troops at the polling stations.
It will be "interesting" to see how this vote goes with Russia troops at the polling stations.
Eh I think you put way to much into the troops being there to be honest. But hey everyone needs their villains I guess.
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Last time they voted for secession, it was 10-20% of the vote.
It will be "interesting" to see how this vote goes with Russia troops at the polling stations.
It will be "interesting" to see how this vote goes with Russia troops at the polling stations.
Eh I think you put way to much into the troops being there to be honest. But hey everyone needs their villains I guess.
Lol, you ever voted with an armed uniformed soldier watching?
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Elinda wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Last time they voted for secession, it was 10-20% of the vote.
It will be "interesting" to see how this vote goes with Russia troops at the polling stations.
It will be "interesting" to see how this vote goes with Russia troops at the polling stations.
Eh I think you put way to much into the troops being there to be honest. But hey everyone needs their villains I guess.
Lol, you ever voted with an armed uniformed soldier watching?
Have you? Just because they are there doesn't mean they sway the vote.
Call me when Russians actually start doing anything oppressive to the people of Crimea.
Edited, Mar 12th 2014 9:09am by rdmcandie
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Last time they voted for secession, it was 10-20% of the vote.
It will be "interesting" to see how this vote goes with Russia troops at the polling stations.
It will be "interesting" to see how this vote goes with Russia troops at the polling stations.
Eh I think you put way to much into the troops being there to be honest. But hey everyone needs their villains I guess.
Lol, you ever voted with an armed uniformed soldier watching?
Have you? Just because they are there doesn't mean they sway the vote.
Call me when Russians actually start doing anything oppressive to the people of Crimea.
Edited, Mar 12th 2014 9:09am by rdmcandie
If there is an election with armed guards and an election without armed guards - which is more likely to be swayed by intimidation, which is more 'democratic'?
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
As long as the soldier's can't see the votes it should be a non-issue for those who show up for the vote. The concern there is voter turn out I think. I'd be hesitant to go to a polling station full of what are essentially occupying foreign forces no matter how peaceful they say they are.
Elinda wrote:
Let me ask you...
If there is an election with armed guards and an election without armed guards - which is more likely to be swayed by intimidation, which is more 'democratic'?
If there is an election with armed guards and an election without armed guards - which is more likely to be swayed by intimidation, which is more 'democratic'?
Let me ask you. Are the armed guards pointing guns at my back. Or are they pointing guns at potential threats who may disrupt my ability to exercise my vote? There is a huge difference depending on which way the guns are facing. We lauded Afghanistan and Iraq Elections as democratic while Western Armies pointed guns at would be disruptors.
Fact is only one government in the region has taken any steps of provocation at disruption of the nation of Ukraine on a whole, and that is the one in Kiev. However minor it may be when your first act as PM is to rescind equal language laws for roughly half your nations population, it sends a very ill message. Russia hasn't shown prejudice to any singular body in Crimea, but Kiev has already expressed disdain to some degree for ethnic Russians, and Russian speakers across the whole country.
As I said before, Call me when Russian troops actually do anything other than keep the peace.
Yodabunny wrote:
As long as the soldier's can't see the votes it should be a non-issue for those who show up for the vote. The concern there is voter turn out I think. I'd be hesitant to go to a polling station full of what are essentially occupying foreign forces no matter how peaceful they say they are.
Now this I can agree with. There is potential that the troops their could cause decline turnout, for both sides. On one hand some might feel intimidated by their presence, on the other hand some could feel their presence is a hint at the possibility of danger.
Edited, Mar 12th 2014 9:41am by rdmcandie
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Yodabunny wrote:
As long as the soldier's can't see the votes it should be a non-issue for those who show up for the vote. The concern there is voter turn out I think. I'd be hesitant to go to a polling station full of what are essentially occupying foreign forces no matter how peaceful they say they are.
Now this I can agree with. There is potential that the troops their could cause decline turnout, for both sides.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Elinda wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Yodabunny wrote:
As long as the soldier's can't see the votes it should be a non-issue for those who show up for the vote. The concern there is voter turn out I think. I'd be hesitant to go to a polling station full of what are essentially occupying foreign forces no matter how peaceful they say they are.
Now this I can agree with. There is potential that the troops their could cause decline turnout, for both sides.
No. You think Russia is going to risk war over shooting people for voting in a referendum they "win" anyway.
Edited, Mar 12th 2014 9:42am by rdmcandie
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Yodabunny wrote:
As long as the soldier's can't see the votes it should be a non-issue for those who show up for the vote. The concern there is voter turn out I think. I'd be hesitant to go to a polling station full of what are essentially occupying foreign forces no matter how peaceful they say they are.
Now this I can agree with. There is potential that the troops their could cause decline turnout, for both sides.
No.
You're a fool or a liar.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Consider that the last time Russian troops were peacefully occupying, the Ukrainians were being intentionally starved to death and being replaced (later) with Russians.
Just as Planned.
Elinda wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Yodabunny wrote:
As long as the soldier's can't see the votes it should be a non-issue for those who show up for the vote. The concern there is voter turn out I think. I'd be hesitant to go to a polling station full of what are essentially occupying foreign forces no matter how peaceful they say they are.
Now this I can agree with. There is potential that the troops their could cause decline turnout, for both sides.
No.
You're a fool or a liar.
A realist. If Russia wanted to take Crimea by force, then they would have. Why play a charade that everyone already assumes is one. Come on you are wiser than that I hope.
Fact is Russia dominates Crimea whether its Russian, or Ukrainian and this vote doesn't change that at all.
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Yodabunny wrote:
As long as the soldier's can't see the votes it should be a non-issue for those who show up for the vote. The concern there is voter turn out I think. I'd be hesitant to go to a polling station full of what are essentially occupying foreign forces no matter how peaceful they say they are.
Now this I can agree with. There is potential that the troops their could cause decline turnout, for both sides.
No.
You're a fool or a liar.
A realist. If Russia wanted to take Crimea by force, then they would have. Why play a charade that everyone already assumes is one. Come on you are wiser than that I hope.
Fact is Russia dominates Crimea whether its Russian, or Ukrainian and this vote doesn't change that at all.
Not if Crimea remains part of Ukraine, and the Ukraine joins NATO.
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