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#52 Aug 21 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
When they all have state-funded PhD's will we stop profiling black men in the street and shuffling them off to prison.
Getting everyone a college education worked out well. Now you have people with 4 year degrees working at Target, while paying off tens of thousands of dollars in student loans. What we really need is for everyone to get a PhD, so they can work at Target while paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans.

For 99.9% of people I'll stick with the once trailer trash, always trailer trash thing. Black population is there in higher proportion because firstly there are people who stereotype and stack the deck against them, and secondly because there were 100s of years of selection for people who could survive our wonderful slave institution. Those traits don't help in modern society.

Educate people, help people, feed them, whatever poison you prefer. You'll still end up with a percentage of the population in the same boat. You can't make someone less fit for society any better, you can only hope to pick a few diamonds out of the rough.

Was that controversial enough? If not I can go back and sprinkle more in. Smiley: lol
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#53 Aug 21 2013 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Well, I'm only 23. I still have about 2 friends from when I was 14.
Give it another 10 years, they'll be all but gone. Smiley: wink
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#54 Aug 21 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Now you have people with 4 year degrees working at Target, while paying off tens of thousands of dollars in student loans.
Sure, but how many of them took Dead Languages or something equally as useless as a major?
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#55 Aug 21 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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#56 Aug 21 2013 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Now you have people with 4 year degrees working at Target, while paying off tens of thousands of dollars in student loans.
Sure, but how many of them took Dead Languages or something equally as useless as a major?
Way way too many, poor souls... Smiley: disappointed

Of course putting along and getting your C-average isn't going to land you a job in your field either. In that case you might as well take what you'd like that way you at least have the degree, and you can get the Target job over someone who only weaseled their way through 2 years of college. Smiley: rolleyes
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#57 Aug 21 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Now you have people with 4 year degrees working at Target, while paying off tens of thousands of dollars in student loans.
Sure, but how many of them took Dead Languages or something equally as useless as a major?


To be fair, it's not that easy anymore. The degrees that actually have market demand are getting inundated with applicants, to the point where some of them have far WORSE employment rates than the degrees not much in demand at all.

For instance, business majors have unemployment rates just .1% better than the national average, which is over 1.5% higher than the average for people with degrees.

Comp Sci, in demand, is at 8.7%. But History, not in demand, is at a 9.5%.

General engineering is 7%, but Early Childhood Educations is 5%. And agriculture is at 6.1%.

All based on this Huffington Post article, though.

Honestly, with rare exceptions, having a degree is the deciding factor nowadays. EVERYONE starts at entry level. Once upon a time, college was a way to zoom past entry level. Nowadays, it's a way to get your foot in the door. That's easier with an <insert degree>. But short of specific jobs like Engineering positions, most companies don't really care what your degree is in. You're still probably not getting an interview unless you know someone in the company.
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#58 Aug 21 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
To be fair, it's not that easy anymore.
While I agree, I also don't feel people who took Underwater Basketweaving should be allowed to ***** about paying back their loans. At least not without it being allowed for everyone within hearing distance to kidney punch them.
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#59 Aug 21 2013 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
To be fair, it's not that easy anymore.
While I agree, I also don't feel people who took Underwater Basketweaving should be allowed to ***** about paying back their loans.
It's a good start to a lifetime of quality decision making. Smiley: rolleyes

Really if 15% of the people in your major get a job in the field when they graduate, and you aren't in the top 15% (or so) of your class you'd think a light bulb would go off or something.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 9:57am by someproteinguy
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#60 Aug 21 2013 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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Underwater basket weaving doesn't really exist. At least I couldn't find it at any of the colleges I checked.

I took an intro to art class though where I learned basket weaving. It was quite a handy skill for a poor college student. My relatives all got cheesy hand-made baskets that x-mas.
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#61 Aug 21 2013 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Underwater basket weaving doesn't really exist.
Reed College in Portland, Oregon, though it's a non-credit course. University of Arizona offers Submerged Snorkeling Basket Weaving once.
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#62 Aug 21 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Reed College in Portland, Oregon, though it's a non-credit course.
Ironically a degree from Reed is probably enough to offset any negative from a basket weaving course.

Prospects are even better if you drop out altogether, so I hear... Smiley: rolleyes
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#63 Aug 21 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:

Educate people, help people, feed them, whatever poison you prefer. You'll still end up with a percentage of the population in the same boat. You can't make someone less fit for society any better, you can only hope to pick a few diamonds out of the rough.

Was that controversial enough? If not I can go back and sprinkle more in. Smiley: lol
Are we assuming then that black people are, via genetics or something, more than twice as likely to be unfit for our society?


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#64 Aug 21 2013 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Although, I'd wager you're the exception, not the rule. How many of your friends from when you were 13-14 are in the same position as you now?
How many of us have kept in touch with precisely nobody we were friends with at 13-14?
If we're using personal experience as the baseline, then I'm free to ask this question, as I'm up to speed on about 70% of them.
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#65 Aug 21 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Are we assuming then that black people are, via genetics or something, more than twice as likely to be unfit for our society?
Not quite, the idea that there's a degree of racism (or at minimum passive intolerance and stereotyping) certainly factors in as well. Also not unfit in way that's unique to a race or anything but unfit the same way as the stereotypical man is fairly unfit for today's society. There was a point in our history where brawn was a great trait to have. Work was mostly manual. Strength was an exceptional trait, fearlessness and intimidation could help keep your family safe. The world was a different place back then.

Nowadays there aren't any wolves at the door, we killed them off and sent the remaining few to National parks. A 14 year old girl can be just as deadly with a gun as a 240lb muscular adult male (or at least a lot closer than it used to be). Robots do most of the heavy lifting. Brains and social skills are more likely to lead to success than the ability to scare off people and lift heavy objects.

Should we be surprised that a subset of the population put through an artificial bottleneck where the ability to do physical labor was a necessity would have a greater proportion of people who are good at physical labor. Also, now they are not as well off in a society that doesn't reward that labor as heavily as it used to? I'm suspect even if we remove any semblance of racism you'd still have a greater number of blacks unemployed for that reason. The same reason you see those football players from high school all doing menial jobs, while those smart nerdy kids they bullied back in the day are making money in excess.
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#66 Aug 21 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:

Should we be surprised that a subset of the population put through an artificial bottleneck where the ability to do physical labor was a necessity would have a greater proportion of people who are good at physical labor.
The chart in the op doesn't support that the decline in manual labor jobs has had any impact on the ratio of unemployed blacks to whites.
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I'm suspect even if we remove any semblance of racism you'd still have a greater number of blacks unemployed for that reason. The same reason you see those football players from high school all doing menial jobs, while those smart nerdy kids they bullied back in the day are making money in excess.
Wow.

Are there statistics that support school athletes going on to have higher unemployment than non-athletes?






Edited, Aug 21st 2013 8:34pm by Elinda
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#67 Aug 21 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Statistics? Wtf?!?! I thought we already established that personal experience and extrapolating that as the norm was enough in this thread.
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#68 Aug 21 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Statistics? Wtf?!?! I thought we already established that personal experience and extrapolating that as the norm was enough in this thread.

Spg is a guru. He must be held to higher standards. Smiley: wink

Lol @ nerd fantasies.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 8:42pm by Elinda
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#69 Aug 21 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:

Should we be surprised that a subset of the population put through an artificial bottleneck where the ability to do physical labor was a necessity would have a greater proportion of people who are good at physical labor.
The chart in the op doesn't support that the decline in manual labor jobs has had any impact on the ratio of unemployed blacks to whites.
It's doesn't preclude it either if we want to get picky. Maybe it was offset by a decrease in racism over time? People today still have a long way to go, but are largely more tolerant than they were 100 years ago.

Elinda wrote:
Quote:
I'm suspect even if we remove any semblance of racism you'd still have a greater number of blacks unemployed for that reason. The same reason you see those football players from high school all doing menial jobs, while those smart nerdy kids they bullied back in the day are making money in excess.
Wow.

Are there statistics that support school athletes going on to have higher unemployment than non-athletes?
I'd actually be interested if there was a correlation between say which sport you did, and what your future income was. For example the cross-country teams tended year-in and year-out to have the highest GPA of any sports teams in my school, and football was consistently among the worst performers. So far google has found nothing Smiley: frown (though I haven't tried much yet admittedly... ).
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#70 Aug 21 2013 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Statistics? Wtf?!?! I thought we already established that personal experience and extrapolating that as the norm was enough in this thread.
I know right? What's this world coming to when we can't just pull numbers out of our *** and pretend their God's word.

Heathens. Smiley: disappointed
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#71 Aug 21 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
For example the cross-country teams tended year-in and year-out to have the highest GPA of any sports teams in my school, and football was consistently among the worst performers.
That's because most of the cross-country teams were the nerds being chased in school by the football team.
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#72 Aug 21 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
For example the cross-country teams tended year-in and year-out to have the highest GPA of any sports teams in my school, and football was consistently among the worst performers.
That's because most of the cross-country teams were the nerds being chased in school by the football team.
Well with all that practice what did you expect us to do? That's like free college money there by doing something we were already doing. Smiley: wink
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#73 Aug 21 2013 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Underwater basket weaving doesn't really exist. At least I couldn't find it at any of the colleges I checked.

I took an intro to art class though where I learned basket weaving. It was quite a handy skill for a poor college student. My relatives all got cheesy hand-made baskets that x-mas.


Rutgers did. Smiley: lol
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#74 Aug 21 2013 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Are blacks not allowed to bus on into town and work at the whitey factory?
As long as the bus goes to Mexico, or wherever the factory went, yes.

Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
We moved off the rez when I was in the 5th grade.
Wait, what? What rez was that?

someproteinguy wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Well, I'm only 23. I still have about 2 friends from when I was 14.
Give it another 10 years, they'll be all but gone. Smiley: wink
I'm 47 and still see 2 friends from when I was 13. But then, I still live in the same town.
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#75 Aug 21 2013 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
We moved off the rez when I was in the 5th grade.
Wait, what? What rez was that?


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#76 Aug 21 2013 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Do you honestly disagree that children raised in households dependent on welfare are more likely to end out on welfare themselves when they grow up?

Of course they are. There is virtually no class mobility in the US.


There is plenty of class mobility in the US. Just very little of it occurs within the poorest neighborhoods. If you're born in a working class neighborhood with not a lot of wealth around, but most people having jobs that provide a modest living, your odds of improving your situation is significantly higher than if you're born in a poor neighborhood with a high percentage of unemployed people living on government assistance.

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The idea that welfare is the cause of that is absolutely moronic.


No. It's not. Welfare creates a virtual class wall around the areas where it it most applied. Once a community reaches a critical mass of welfare recipients within it, the odds of the community recovering are more or less zero, and the odds of anyone born into that community escaping it aren't much better.

Meanwhile, everyone else lives in a sea of opportunity where you absolutely can change your life (for better or worse) based on your own actions and abilities.

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What's the cause of wealthy children ending up wealthy? Hard work and talent, right?


They are more likely to work hard and become talented, if for no other reason that they see all around them the fruits of hard work and talent. When you live in a ghetto where everyone is out of work, everyone subsists on government assistance, and no one is a success story, it's kinda hard to develop a "I can accomplish whatever I want" attitude.

Being born to a wealthy family by no means guarantees success either btw. Just as being born to a poor family does not guarantee poverty later in life. But there are marked outcome differences between them, and I think that what's moronic is the assumption that the children of wealthy families succeed purely because of the money they possess. It's vastly more likely to be about the environment their kids grow up in than the number of dollars in the bank account.

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Black unemployment and poverty can really only be caused by one of two things: Institutional racism on a national scale or a genetic predisposition towards criminality and laziness.


I disagree that those are the only two possibilities. I think that some have tried really really hard to frame the problem in this way so as to avoid examining the negative effects of their own pet social projects, but at what point do we stop casting about for some mysterious "institutionalized racism" and start looking at what's right in front of us.


I guess I just don't get why some people have such a knee jerk and emotional response to the idea that by providing assistance to people we ****** their ability to provide for themselves. And when we do that on a large enough scale in concentrated areas (or even intentionally concentrate the recipients of that assistance in those areas), we create a massive generational poverty problem. And guess what? If the color of the skin of the people we've done that to just happen to be black more often than white, why are we surprised that this shows up in social statistics comparing black versus white outcomes?
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