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Feminism... again. Follow

#1 May 05 2013 at 7:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Because we had the long thread about feminism, I thought I'd share this video. I watched here on The Mary Sue, which is quickly becoming one of my favorite websites. It's about 20 minutes long, but it's pretty interesting, IMHO.

#2 May 05 2013 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't want to sound like a jerk, but could you summarize that 20 mins in about 4 to 5 sentences?

Edited, May 6th 2013 4:04am by Almalieque
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#3 May 05 2013 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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The conversation about violence usually takes the wrong perspective - we talk about the victims, not the perpetrators. Some of this is because of the nearly universal tendency to drop the dominant group from any conversation about any problem - race, domestic and sexual violence, crime in general.

Additionally, we tend to talk about each incident as though it were happening in isolation, when we know that violence does not happen in a vacuum. We rarely talk about institutional violence.

We all need to take responsibility for stopping violence; in the same way that whites can and (sometimes) do forestall racist comments and actions by other whites, men need to speak up to other men about sexism and violence. It needs to not be acceptable, or funny, or cute.

That's the gist, I think.
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#4 May 06 2013 at 3:26 AM Rating: Good
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men need to speak up to other men about sexism and violence. It needs to not be acceptable, or funny, or cute.

"Need to", kitten? Don't you worry your pretty head about what us men "need to" do. You're adorable.
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#5 May 06 2013 at 5:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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I will cut a *****, *****.
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#6 May 06 2013 at 5:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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That was not acceptable, funny or cute, Smasharoo.
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#7 May 06 2013 at 6:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
That was not acceptable, funny or cute, Smasharoo.



STOOFOO, ginger boy.

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#8 May 06 2013 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
Because we had the long thread about feminism, I thought I'd share this video.
What did I post in that thread? Was it something about sandwiches? That again.
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#9 May 06 2013 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
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WATCH “THE TED TALK THAT MIGHT MAKE EVERY MAN A FEMINIST”]
Let me get this feminist stuff wrong again, but I just don't think confusing domestic violence and feminism as being very helpful.

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#10 May 06 2013 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
The Mary Sue wrote:
WATCH “THE TED TALK THAT MIGHT MAKE EVERY MAN A FEMINIST”]
Let me get this feminist stuff wrong again, but I just don't think confusing domestic violence and feminism as being very helpful.


I was already leery after seeing "TED talk", then decided to opt out when I read that teaser line.
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#11 Jun 09 2013 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
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In other news, going topless regardless of gender was upheld in NYC.

Edited, Jun 9th 2013 8:51pm by Timelordwho
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#12 Jun 09 2013 at 10:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:


What interests me is that the actual ruling was made in 1992, but women (or at least this Van Voast person anyway) have been being harassed by the police for being topless for years regardless. She deserves to win her lawsuit.

The whole case of topless women being lewd or not is an interesting case study in how women's bodies are still defined by male desire. We've seen it with breastfeeding even, though that has gotten a lot better, where people think it is somehow lewd to do the most natural thing in the world - feed their baby. The fact that men find women's ******* to be sexual is the ENTIRE basis of the lewdness argument. That fetishization (similar to the fetishization of ankles etc in other cultures) is imposed on women's bodies, and women are expected to change their behavior to deal with it.

It actually feeds into the idea of rape culture - where women are viewed as sexual objects when they are just doing ordinary things (like walking around topless on a hot day). We still live in a society where women are expected to alter their lives and behavior (and subject themselves to restrictions not placed on men) based on the male gaze/fetishization.

TL;DR: in B4 "she was raped cause she was walking around topless"
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#13 Jun 09 2013 at 11:53 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The fact that men find women's ******* to be sexual is the ENTIRE basis of the lewdness argument.

Not to belabor the obvious, but it's also the same reason why bare genitals are considered lewd. I'm not allowed to walk down the street with my dong hanging out because it's considered lewd on the basis of sexuality. What other possible argument is there going to be for calling something lewd?

Edited, Jun 10th 2013 12:54am by Jophiel
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#14 Jun 10 2013 at 4:17 AM Rating: Default
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Is it not a fair assertion that a topless woman would be more likely to be a victim of sexual abuse than her fully clothed comrades?
#15 Jun 10 2013 at 6:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:

It actually feeds into the idea of rape culture - where women are viewed as sexual objects when they are just doing ordinary things (like walking around topless on a hot day). We still live in a society where women are expected to alter their lives and behavior (and subject themselves to restrictions not placed on men) based on the male gaze/fetishization.
I don't think it's the boobs. I think it's the tender white skin of the young, nubile (Joph's word!) attractive woman thing that turns men on. The sight of a ball of fat and glands covered with stretched skinned and topped with a nipple has a decidedly different effect on most depending on if the woman is considered attractive or not.


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#16 Jun 10 2013 at 6:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Demoncard wrote:
Is it not a fair assertion that a topless woman would be more likely to be a victim of sexual abuse than her fully clothed comrades?


No. I don't think the lack of a shirt or bra would be a deciding factor for a would be raper to choose who, when or where he'll attempt to rape a victim.



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#17 Jun 10 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I'm not allowed to walk down the street with my dong hanging out because it's considered lewd on the basis of sexuality.
Clearly you should set up a webcam and charge people to see it. That way you're empowered by your sexuality.
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#18 Jun 10 2013 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I'm not allowed to walk down the street with my dong hanging out because it's considered lewd on the basis of sexuality.
Clearly you should set up a webcam wear a strap-on web cam and charge people to see it. That way you're empowered by your sexuality.
Better yet, a shot on Google Street view.







Edited, Jun 10th 2013 3:28pm by Elinda
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#19 Jun 10 2013 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:


What interests me is that the actual ruling was made in 1992, but women (or at least this Van Voast person anyway) have been being harassed by the police for being topless for years regardless. She deserves to win her lawsuit.

The whole case of topless women being lewd or not is an interesting case study in how women's bodies are still defined by male desire. We've seen it with breastfeeding even, though that has gotten a lot better, where people think it is somehow lewd to do the most natural thing in the world - feed their baby. The fact that men find women's ******* to be sexual is the ENTIRE basis of the lewdness argument. That fetishization (similar to the fetishization of ankles etc in other cultures) is imposed on women's bodies, and women are expected to change their behavior to deal with it.

It actually feeds into the idea of rape culture - where women are viewed as sexual objects when they are just doing ordinary things (like walking around topless on a hot day). We still live in a society where women are expected to alter their lives and behavior (and subject themselves to restrictions not placed on men) based on the male gaze/fetishization.

TL;DR: in B4 "she was raped cause she was walking around topless"

This just sounds like a double standard to me.

I'm not allowed to walk around with my balls hanging out, so why is expecting women to not walk around with their boobs hanging out any different? Or is this just advocating for public nudity in general?
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#20 Jun 10 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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cidbahamut wrote:
This just sounds like a double standard to me.

I'm not allowed to walk around with my balls hanging out, so why is expecting women to not walk around with their boobs hanging out any different? Or is this just advocating for public nudity in general?
If it helps you feel better, I'm sure we can find some thong looking thing that technically covers them but leaves very little to the imagination.
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#21 Jun 10 2013 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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We can easily find it, and you'd agree it was a good reason to burn down the entire Jersey shoreline.
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#22 Jun 10 2013 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Flammable shorelines? I thought that only happened in Cleveland.
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#23 Jun 10 2013 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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I don't really care to see guys walking around shirtless.
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#24 Jun 10 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Flammable shorelines? I thought that only happened in Cleveland.
I bet all the hairspray and fake tans urn quite well.
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#25 Jun 10 2013 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Flammable shorelines? I thought that only happened in Cleveland.
I bet all the hairspray and fake tans urn quite well.
Thought crossed my mind. All that sunblock on some of those beaches, you wonder what would happen with a stray match.

Also, lol urn.
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#26 Jun 10 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Flammable shorelines? I thought that only happened in Cleveland.
I bet all the hairspray and fake tans urn quite well.
Thought crossed my mind. All that sunblock on some of those beaches, you wonder what would happen with a stray match.

Also, lol urn.

I don't think sunblock is flammable.
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#27 Jun 10 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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The stuff that comes in aerosol cans is, though.
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#28 Jun 10 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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The stuff that comes in aerosol cans is, though.

When's the last time you applied sun screen from an aerosol can?
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#29 Jun 10 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Never, and after seeing this it may stay that way.

Ow...
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#30 Jun 10 2013 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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When's the last time you applied sun screen from an aerosol can?

You don't?
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#31 Jun 10 2013 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
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#32 Jun 10 2013 at 2:19 PM Rating: Default
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Does anyone, man or woman, need to expose their ******* or genitalia to cool down?

Removing clothing should be a last resort, used only when you can't find an ice cream vendor. I can't imagine a situation where you'd be forced to take off your underwear to cool down; the change would be so negligible that you would do better to keep it on and save your dignity.

As for rape, I'm fairly certain that women who wear skimpy clothing are targeted more often. Elinda, I don't see where you went with that.
#33 Jun 10 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Does anyone, man or woman, need to expose their ******* or genitalia to cool down?

Removing clothing should be a last resort, used only when you can't find an ice cream vendor.

You ever dip your balls in ice cream? That'll cool you right down.
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#34 Jun 11 2013 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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I've found Italian Ice works better.
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#35 Jun 11 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Demoncard wrote:


As for rape, I'm fairly certain that women who wear skimpy clothing are targeted more often.


And here, ladies and gentlemen, is rape culture.

Anyway - how about all the games with female protagonists announced at E3?
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#36 Jun 11 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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/facepalm

Wait what is 2 Souls then? Ellen Page isnt a girl/woman? Or they saying No newly announced games ? If so its a stupid argument saying oh well you didnt include X? What about African Americans? Or Asian or Indian. Were they represented in the games? Again you cant make everyone happy, and tossing a female lead in a game just to have a female lead would be pointless, and just pandering.

Also don't judge the whole by the few, Not every German is a ****.

Edit: Also If she wants more women in gaming, make your own game with a female protagonist, or commission your own. Its a free world nothings stopping her, Indie games do it all the time.


Edited, Jun 11th 2013 6:57pm by BeanX
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#37 Jun 11 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Heh, Sarkeesian complaining about the lack of female leads in announced games just to have more material to complain about in future youtube videos. Priceless.
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#38 Jun 11 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
tossing a female lead in a game just to have a female lead would be pointless, and just pandering.


I agree with you on this point, but at the same time, I don't think it is really a choice between having few/no female leads and just "tossing in one" either. For me, the issue of female leads or not is less salient than the the hatred and vitriol expressed by people when someone even dared mention it. I mean, is it really so bad to hope/wish/want/advocate for more women leads in games? Do people deserve to be called names because they want that?

I mean, I don't think wanting to see more female leads in games makes you a C*nt or a B*tch - but people seem to think it's acceptable to call someone that cause they dared mention it.

And I'd like to see more diversity overall, which is why I think starting with representing women, which make up fully half the population on earth, is a good start.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

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#39 Jun 11 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thinking about it, the two recently launches games I've heard the most about have been Remember Me (female protagonist) and Last of Us (tough female companion). Game I heard most about going into E3 was Mirror's Edge 2.
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#41 Jun 11 2013 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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See this is why people get angry, making claims that are unsubstantiated and intentional slanderous. Im not saying the words people used on Twitter were ok, but I understand the feelings behind them. Shes causing issues to do just that cause issue, it doesnt matter who wrote it male or female., it would be the same feeling. I want to ***** the person out for lying to make a scene.
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#42 Jun 11 2013 at 12:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
I mean, I don't think wanting to see more female leads in games makes you a C*nt or a B*tch - but people seem to think it's acceptable to call someone that cause they dared mention it.
People are mean sometimes. I'd dunk their heads in cold water if I could, but the whole internet anonymity thing gets in the way.

I'd like to know how many of those are actually serious responses and not just people trolling for a reaction.

Edited, Jun 11th 2013 12:06pm by someproteinguy
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#43 Jun 11 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Edit: Also If she wants more women in gaming, make your own game with a female protagonist, or commission your own. Its a free world nothings stopping her, Indie games do it all the time.


Were you born retarded or did you have to work at it?
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#44 Jun 11 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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See this is why people get angry, making claims that are unsubstantiated and intentional slanderous

To be accurate, Sark-whatever said that the Xbox One event had no new games revealed with female protagonists. Olorinus turned that into a larger statement about E3.

Anita S. may be accurate but, since publishers were having their own events, I hardly see where it's especially informative to single out the Xbox event as indicative of anything.
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#45 Jun 11 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Edit: Also If she wants more women in gaming, make your own game with a female protagonist, or commission your own. Its a free world nothings stopping her, Indie games do it all the time.


Were you born retarded or did you have to work at it?


Born this way thanks. I was making a point if you want change get up and show that the change is going to work. These are multi million dollar games, most publishes are scared as **** to change anything. Thats why we get Call of Halo 8 and stuff. They want to make a profit and anything that might challenge that is auto tossed.

My comment was to say If you want to make a change in the industry get off your a$$ and make a change dont sit there an complain about it. Show that games with woman leads can be profitable.

My whole point is shes hitting the hornet nest (Anonymous internet people) to cause a scene, in the end it doesnt change anything.
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#46 Jun 11 2013 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Adding to my E3 list as someone who has only taken splash damage from the reporting: People collectively making schoolgirl noises about Morrigan being back in DA3.
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#47 Jun 11 2013 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is Morrigan a Fighting **** Toy, a Woman as Reward, Voodoo Priestess/Tribal Sorceress, Damsel in Distress, or Mrs. Male Character?
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#48 Jun 11 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Demoncard wrote:
Does anyone, man or woman, need to expose their ******* or genitalia to cool down?
The groin and the armpits are the best places to cool someone down. So yeah, if someone is suffering from a heat-related illness taking their clothes off is very reasonable. Do you know you have to take off a woman's shirt AND bra to do CPR on her?

Why is skin so awful to look at?

Quote:
Removing clothing should be a last resort, used only when you can't find an ice cream vendor.
Eating ice cream doesn't cool you down. You're just a tease.

Quote:
As for rape, I'm fairly certain that women who wear skimpy clothing are targeted more often. Elinda, I don't see where you went with that.
I'm fairly certain you're full of fruit-loops.
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#49 Jun 11 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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All of those and a **** spider shape-changer!
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#50 Jun 11 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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#51 Jun 11 2013 at 1:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pointing out Morrigan's dress is obviously ****-shaming.

Also, it seems to be ethnic "Witch of the Wild" garb so I'm pretty sure it's also racist.
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