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There's no double jeopardy clause in Italy Follow

#1 Mar 26 2013 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Saw this and though I didn't really follow the original case that closely (by watching the news, I got the cliff's notes), I found it interesting that there's no protection in Italy for being tried for the same crime twice.

Italy court: Amanda Knox to be retried for Meredith Kercher murder

Amanda Knox was ordered to stand trial again for the murder of her roommate by Italy's top criminal court on Tuesday, but there appeared to be little the country could do to force her to return for the new hearings.

The Court of Cassation, Italy's final court of appeal, overturned the acquittals of both Knox and her then-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito over the 2007 killing of British student Meredith Kercher.

In a statement responding to the decision, Knox slammed prosecutors and vowed to fight on.

"It was painful to receive the news that the Italian Supreme Court decided to send my case back for revision when the prosecution's theory of my involvement in Meredith's murder has been repeatedly revealed to be completely unfounded and unfair," said Knox, who is now aged 25 and living in the Seattle area.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/26/17468473-italy-court-amanda-knox-to-be-retried-for-meredith-kercher-murder?lite

For reference here's the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution - No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Think about how different our legal system would be without that clause. Would OJs trial have been sent back? Casey Anthony's?

Judging from what I've read, the Italian courts are a huge ************ but this must make things even more cumbersome.

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#2 Mar 26 2013 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Grady wrote:
For reference here's the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
That's great. What does it have to do with Italy?
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#3 Mar 26 2013 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Grady wrote:
For reference here's the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
That's great. What does it have to do with Italy?


Um... That they don't have the same thing? Just spitballin' here.
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#4 Mar 26 2013 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Grady wrote:
For reference here's the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
That's great. What does it have to do with Italy?


If you read the post, We don't have DJ, they allow it, think about how we would be different if we did.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 7:00pm by Timelordwho
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#5 Mar 26 2013 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Grady wrote:
For reference here's the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
That's great. What does it have to do with Italy?
Um... That they don't have the same thing? Just spitballin' here.
Again, that's great. You guys know how Wikipedia works. What does it have to do with Italy?
Timelordwho wrote:
think about how we would be different if we did.
We'd be different. Great. Wonderful thread. Thread concluded.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 7:02pm by lolgaxe
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#6 Mar 26 2013 at 5:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I wish we allocated more to our public school systems.


Edited, Mar 26th 2013 7:22pm by Timelordwho
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#7 Mar 26 2013 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Grady wrote:
For reference here's the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
That's great. What does it have to do with Italy?
Um... That they don't have the same thing? Just spitballin' here.
Again, that's great. You guys know how Wikipedia works. What does it have to do with Italy?


Um... That they don't have the same thing? Just spitballin' here.
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#8 Mar 26 2013 at 6:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Grady wrote:
For reference here's the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
That's great. What does it have to do with Italy?

Possibly quite a bit when Italy asks for extradition.
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#9 Mar 26 2013 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Possibly quite a bit when Italy asks for extradition.


Probably not. Double jeopardy almost never applies in cases overturned on appeal, they get retried all the time. Double jeopardy applies when someone is acquitted, not at all the same as a verdict being overturned. There's also the niggling detail that all available evidence indicates that she very likely murdered someone which would make refusing to extradite her a little sticky. She is a pretty white lady that people like, though, and the value of that to grant exceptions to law in the US shouldn't be underestimated.
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#10 Mar 26 2013 at 7:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Probably not. Double jeopardy almost never applies in cases overturned on appeal, they get retried all the time. Double jeopardy applies when someone is acquitted, not at all the same as a verdict being overturned.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Does that make me a genius as well, since I saw the same issue Smash saw?

I'm going with yes, regardless of the answer.
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#11 Mar 26 2013 at 8:41 PM Rating: Good
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They should keep her here in the US, on the condition that she signs a deal with Larry Flynt.
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#12 Mar 26 2013 at 8:56 PM Rating: Good
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She ****** up in Italy. Sign her to do remakes of Lucio Fulci movies.
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#13 Mar 26 2013 at 11:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Possibly quite a bit when Italy asks for extradition.

Probably not.

No idea here. I was just going for the obvious reason why two sets of rules in two different nations might matter. My own interest and knowledge of the case goes as far as "Pretty girl got in trouble and *** was involved so it was news".
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#14 Mar 27 2013 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Probably not. Double jeopardy almost never applies in cases overturned on appeal, they get retried all the time. Double jeopardy applies when someone is acquitted, not at all the same as a verdict being overturned.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Does that make me a genius as well, since I saw the same issue Smash saw?

I'm going with yes, regardless of the answer.
The Canadian Genius is just a myth.
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#15 Mar 27 2013 at 6:14 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
[b]
She is a pretty white lady that people like, though, and the value of that to grant exceptions to law in the US shouldn't be underestimated.
Just gauging by the responses here - this will weigh heavy in any US judicial decision.
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#16 Mar 27 2013 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
"Pretty girl got in trouble and *** was involved so it was news".
Something about satanism, too.
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#17 Mar 27 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Just gauging by the responses here - this will weigh heavy in any US judicial decision.

Probably will, in all seriousness. Plus, what's Italy going to do if the US refuses, cut off our supply of bathtub maddonas?
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#18 Mar 27 2013 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Plus, what's Italy going to do if the US refuses, cut off our supply of bathtub maddonas?


What about our salad dressing and meatballs... where will we go to get those?
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#19 Mar 27 2013 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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France and Sweden?
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#20 Mar 27 2013 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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Pretty sure that one of the Thousand Islands has someone that can make meatballs on it.
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#21 Mar 27 2013 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Just gauging by the responses here - this will weigh heavy in any US judicial decision.

Probably will, in all seriousness. Plus, what's Italy going to do if the US refuses, cut off our supply of bathtub maddonas?
No more Parmesan for you.
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#22 Mar 27 2013 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Double jeopardy applies when someone is acquitted, not at all the same as a verdict being overturned.


Well, considering that original verdict was acquittal in this case, it doesn't sound all that cut and dry.

I didn't really follow the case, nor do I give 2 ***** about Itally, but if she was acquitted, then it should stand. Prosecutors/juries do occasionally make mistakes; they have to live with it here, so I really don't see any value in sending an American citizen back to another country to have that same protection denied to them.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#23 Mar 27 2013 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Double jeopardy applies when someone is acquitted, not at all the same as a verdict being overturned.


Well, considering that original verdict was acquittal in this case, it doesn't sound all that cut and dry.

I didn't really follow the case, nor do I give 2 @#%^s about Itally, but if she was acquitted, then it should stand. Prosecutors/juries do occasionally make mistakes; they have to live with it here, so I really don't see any value in sending an American citizen back to another country to have that same protection denied to them.

The original verdict was guilty.
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#24 Mar 27 2013 at 8:36 AM Rating: Good
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Well, considering that original verdict was acquittal in this case

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong about trivially fact checked things?

Seems like it would be exhausting.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#25 Mar 27 2013 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Double jeopardy applies when someone is acquitted, not at all the same as a verdict being overturned.


Well, considering that original verdict was acquittal in this case, it doesn't sound all that cut and dry.

I didn't really follow the case, nor do I give 2 @#%^s about Itally, but if she was acquitted, then it should stand. Prosecutors/juries do occasionally make mistakes; they have to live with it here, so I really don't see any value in sending an American citizen back to another country to have that same protection denied to them.

The original verdict was guilty.


I'm not interested in debating the details of Italian law any further than this, but according to wikipedia (lolwiki):

Quote:
Under Italian law two appeals are permitted to defendants, during which there is a presumption of innocence until a final verdict is entered.[161] Their first appeal began in November 2010 and was presided over by Judges Claudio Pratillo Hellmann and Massimo Zanetti. The court ordered a review of the contested DNA evidence by independent forensic DNA experts Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti from Rome's Sapienza University. They submitted a 145-page report that noted numerous basic errors in the gathering and analysis of the evidence, further asserting that a police forensic scientist had given evidence in court that was not supported by her laboratory work.[162] In testimony to the appeal, Professor Conti said that a police video showed that, when a vital piece of evidence was gathered, it was handled with a glove that was visibly dirty.[163][164] During cross-examination Vecchiotti was asked by prosecutor Comodi if a gap of several days between analysing samples was enough to remove the possibility of cross-contamination in the laboratory. "They're sufficient if that's the way things went," replied Vecchiotti.[165]
On 3 October 2011, the court overturned Knox's and Sollecito's convictions on charges of complicity in murder, sexual assault, illegally carrying a knife and staging a break-in. The conviction of Knox on a charge of slander was upheld and the original one-year sentence was increased to three years and eleven days imprisonment.[166][167][168]


/shrug
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#26 Mar 27 2013 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
I really don't see any value in sending an American citizen back to another country to have that same protection denied to them.
Because you're subject to local laws, not your nationality's?
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