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The EU, do you guys care?Follow

#1 Jan 23 2013 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
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Today saw the UK Prime Minister make a promise on a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU if he can keep his sickly tenure for a second term of office.

It's a good gamble and one I do not think he will lose. It's a play for concessions against a weakened EU leadership and it's looking in the correct direction. I think it's also a good wake up call, leaving is an option you know...

Some more information and junk:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/23/eu-referendum-speech-merkel-cameron

So my questions to this board here.
1. If you are European - If we ,as the glorious United Kingdom, leave the EU ... will you still love us?
2. America - If we leave the EU, can we join the US?
3. Do you like bacon?
#2 Jan 23 2013 at 9:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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#3 Jan 23 2013 at 9:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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I totally forgot Britain joined the EU, because they didn't join the Euro.

I think now is a perfect time to hold a referendum on EU membership if you really want your nation not to be part of it.
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#4 Jan 23 2013 at 9:59 PM Rating: Good
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1. If you are European - If we ,as the glorious United Kingdom, leave the EU ... will you still love us?


I'm not European, but I'm guessing the rest of Europe will be *******

Quote:
2. America - If we leave the EU, can we join the US?


No.

Quote:
3. Do you like bacon?


That's a silly question. It should be, "How much do you like bacon?".

A: A whole lot.
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#5 Jan 23 2013 at 10:52 PM Rating: Good
Omegavegeta wrote:
Quote:
3. Do you like bacon?

That's a silly question. It should be, "How much do you like bacon?".

A: A whole lot.
A
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#6 Jan 24 2013 at 12:45 AM Rating: Good
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Referenda are completely antithetical to our constitutional settlement. They're used when you want to use 'the will of the people' to shut up the opposition, while ignoring the billions of other issues decided by an indirect system of government - in Cameron's case, one he campaigned heavily to keep as indirect as possible. The justification for our system is apparently 'strong government'; if that's fine, then why allow referenda to undermine it?

In this case, of course, Cameron wants someone else to blame when things go tits up; it's clear he thinks the policy is stupid, as does anyone who knows anything about the way the EU and the common market work. Decisions in power must be seen as those of the government or accountability flies out the window.
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#7 Jan 24 2013 at 3:50 AM Rating: Good
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America - If we leave the EU, can we join the US?

You won't leave, you represent our interests. The idea that the UK will make a decision about this without the US signing off is ludicrous. This is theater, obviously. Well calculated, though, Miliband never looks weaker than when he's talking about EU reform.
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#8 Jan 24 2013 at 6:05 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
1. If you are European - If we ,as the glorious United Kingdom, leave the EU ... will you still love us?


Lead the way, brother. We're getting fed up with the French running the show in Europe right now. And having to pay for Greece's idiocy.

Quote:
3. Do you like bacon?


Of course! Being from the UK, you must know where your bacon comes from. We're your largest supplier. Smiley: nod
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#9 Jan 24 2013 at 6:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think some Americans will be interested, but most will not really care either way.

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#10 Jan 24 2013 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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I thought the EU was mostly an economic thing anyway? I honestly don't know a lot about it, I've read bits here and there. It seemed like a good concept, perhaps it just needs and overhaul with stronger leadership. I can't say my day would be ruined one way or the other.

3. A
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#11 Jan 24 2013 at 8:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kakar wrote:
I thought the EU was mostly an economic thing anyway?

There's various judicial and legislative things as well such as open borders within the EU, human rights protections, etc. Not much militarily since NATO covers most of the same real estate.

I won't pretend to be an expert in the EU and I don't know what UK's particular grievances are so I guess I don't have too much of an opinion on it. From a glance, it looks as though the Union is suffering from a bit of over-expansion and letting in the rabble which is upsetting some of the more secure and prosperous states. Having to bail out Greece, immigration from Eastern Europe into western states, etc.

Edited, Jan 24th 2013 8:21am by Jophiel
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#12 Jan 24 2013 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
I think some Americans will be interested, but most will not really care either way.
I disagree. Everyone cares about bacon.
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#13 Jan 24 2013 at 9:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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SayingHi wrote:
1. If you are European - If we ,as the glorious United Kingdom, leave the EU ... will you still love us?


They're already thankful you're separated by that stretch of water. They tolerated that whole tunnel nonsense and you visiting more frequently. I wouldn't push your luck.

SayingHi wrote:
2. America - If we leave the EU, can we join the US?


Sure, I hear we need more angry white people.

SayingHi wrote:
3. Do you like bacon?


You had me at bacon. Smiley: inlove
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#14 Jan 24 2013 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's Cameron's attempt to stop the massive outflow of members from the Conservative Party to the UK Independence Party (UKIP).

It's hard to find a balanced view on this as most commentators are biased towards or against the EU, and most reports are at best misleading; they confuse many aspects of the European Union.

My attempt at a dispassionate description:

Primarily it was established by Ze Chermans and the French as a free trade area to promote regrowth after WW2, with the added subtext of a) avoiding another war, and b) subsidising France's mediaeval peasant agronomy.

In order to make these work it established a parliament (elected) to pass laws to promote the common good, a council (unelected) to administer it, and a court (unelected) to enforce it. The vast majority of people confuse these 3 bodies, either through ignorance or malice.

In recent years, they introduced 2 new features that the UK declined to join: Monetary Union and the Schengen Agreement (allowing free movement of people across borders without passports).

The pro-european lobby holds that the benefits (significant exports to EU countries helped by tax breaks etc.) outweigh the disadvantages (an inefficient bureaucracy and the risk of financial instability wandering across borders from corrupt south and east european nations.)

The anti-european lobby (including UKIP) are adamant that we don't need the free trade area as we're big enough without it, and further, the influx of foreigners and the outflow of money to the European Commission do significant harm to our economy.

Both of those arguments have a basis in fact, but the pro-euro argument is mostly in the hands of the Labour Party who are as rhetorically gifted as varrus and as concise as gbaji (I know, pot, kettle, tl;dr).

UKIP are a single policy party (get us out of Europe, Britain for the British etc.) who have to date mostly recruited from the far right. In recent years, the pro-euro argument has been so badly communicated that the UKIP message has gained support from many traditional Conservative voters.

In short, it's a stunt by Cameron whose economical advisers are briefing that even to call for a referendum will cause enough uncertainty to turn this into a triple-dip recession. His political advisers, however, have convinced him that most voters know too little about europe to challenge his statements.

Oh, and his announcement is for a referendum after the next election, if the Conservatives win, and if he's still party leader then. No chance of that happening.

Nexa gbaji
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#15 Jan 24 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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tl;dr: it's a move to jerk off the "Europe is evil!" morons back home for political profit.
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#16 Jan 24 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nobby wrote:
In recent years, they introduced 2 new features that the UK declined to join: Monetary Union and the Schengen Agreement (allowing free movement of people across borders without passports).

I didn't know the UK didn't sign on to that whole open borders thing.

You'll hate me for saying it but I was mentally conflating the UK with Ireland where they were, as I recall, ******** about the EU allowing their verdant boulevards to be choked with shiftless Polacks and Estonians.
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#17 Jan 24 2013 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Nobby wrote:
In recent years, they introduced 2 new features that the UK declined to join: Monetary Union and the Schengen Agreement (allowing free movement of people across borders without passports).

I didn't know the UK didn't sign on to that whole open borders thing.

You'll hate me for saying it but I was mentally conflating the UK with Ireland where they were, as I recall, ******** about the EU allowing their verdant boulevards to be choked with shiftless Polacks and Estonians.


Ireland is also outside the Schengen Area; there is passportless free movement between S. Ireland and the UK, though. EU citizens can freely move to both, provided they have passports or identity cards.
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#18 Jan 24 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk wrote:
EU citizens can freely move to both, provided they have passports or identity cards.

That must have been it.
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#19 Jan 24 2013 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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Oh, and his announcement is for a referendum after the next election, if the Conservatives win, and if he's still party leader then. No chance of that happening.

While your here, what about the Jocks? I haven't followed that very much, but is their independence movement for real?

I have a good idea, let everything south of Aberdeen go on it's own, then send an elaborate constabulary force to maintain the loyalist northern section. What could possibly go wrong?
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#20 Jan 24 2013 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
EU citizens can freely move to both, provided they have passports or identity cards.

That must have been it.
Which makes the whole Schengen thing a bit moot for me since I can get fined if I don't have an ID card on me... The only real difference is that countries no longer have to bother with any sort of border patrol.
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#21 Jan 24 2013 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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2. America - If we leave the EU, can we join the US?


Just bring Canada with you and we'll form Ultramerica, the even greaterest country in the world.
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#22 Jan 24 2013 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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[Cleese]OK, so apart from a stronger global trading position, raised standards of criminal justice, significant investment in transport infrastructure, greater stability of energy production, the opening up of new labour markets, exposure of corruption in south European governments, cheaper foreign holidays, large scale urban regeneration, the reduced threat of military conflict within the continent, and a stronger bargaining position with the USA & the BRIC economies, . . .

What has the EU ever done for us?
[/Cleese]
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#23 Jan 24 2013 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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[Cleese]OK, so apart from a stronger global trading position, raised standards of criminal justice, significant investment in transport infrastructure, greater stability of energy production, the opening up of new labour markets, exposure of corruption in south European governments, cheaper foreign holidays, large scale urban regeneration, the reduced threat of military conflict within the continent, and a stronger bargaining position with the USA & the BRIC economies, . . .

What has the EU ever done for us?
[/Cleese]
...the aqueduct?
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#24 Jan 24 2013 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
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Nobby wrote:
[Cleese]OK, so apart from a stronger global trading position, raised standards of criminal justice, significant investment in transport infrastructure, greater stability of energy production, the opening up of new labour markets, exposure of corruption in south European governments, cheaper foreign holidays, large scale urban regeneration, the reduced threat of military conflict within the continent, and a stronger bargaining position with the USA & the BRIC economies, . . .

What has the EU ever done for us?
[/Cleese]

Can you do that in Russian?
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#25 Jan 25 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Ahh Cleese, one of the only worthwhile British exports.
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#26 Jan 25 2013 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Ahh Cleese, one of the only worthwhile British exports.

Yeah, along with Cary Grant, Colin Powell, Slash, casual violence & alcoholism.
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#27 Jan 25 2013 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Nobby wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Ahh Cleese, one of the only worthwhile British exports.

Yeah, along with Cary Grant, Colin Powell, Slash, casual violence & alcoholism.


Harlem is in England now? Smiley: confused
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