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#227 Jan 09 2013 at 8:16 PM Rating: Default
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No. The food stamps allowed you to not have to choose between food and a car. The food stamps paid for part of your car and insurance, not the food. If you had not had food stamps, which would you have done: Starved to death? Or sold the car? Assuming you would not have actually starved to death, then the food stamps helped you keep your car.

Which is the point I was making.


At no point in time do I remember paying my car or insurance with food stamps. I clearly remember them going towards food at the grocery store.


Irrelevant. Did you also, during the time period you received food stamps, continue to pay for your car and insurance? if you had not received food stamps and were forced to choose between paying for your car and starving to death, which would you have chosen? Assuming you would have dropped the car payments prior to actually starving to death, then we can conclude that what the food stamps really did was allow you to both buy food *and* keep your car. Clearly, if you'd just stopped paying for the car, you'd have had $800/month more money. I'm assuming that you could easily have purchased enough food to avoid starvation with that.

It was about a choice for you, not a necessity. Which is what I've been saying all along. The food stamps allowed you to obtain what you needed (food) and what you wanted (a car). You could easily have afforded food if you'd been willing to give up the car. But you didn't. That was a choice.

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I have starved for weeks at a time. Not the greatest thing for myself but it was the choice I made.


Yes. A choice. You choose to go hungry rather than give up other things. See how my point about people making irrational choices is valid?

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The first four months being in MT I did not have food stamps.


You survived for 4 months without any food? Assuming you didn't, then food stamps were not actually necessary for you to obtain food. Maybe not as much as you would have liked, but then there's that pesky business of $800/month you could have had if you'd sold your car (plus the cash for selling the car).

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The end of second month/ beginning of third I got them. I ate very little and completely @#%^ed up the bit of stability I had til then.


Ok. Maybe you meant 4 weeks in that earlier sentence then? Either way, you made a choice. I'm assuming you didn't actually eat zero food in that first month (nearly two). You just didn't have as much as you'd have liked. I'll again point out that this was a choice you made. I'm not even saying it was the wrong choice. I'm just saying that it was one.

I'll ask again though. If things had really gotten bad, and you were really hungry and weren't getting enough food, would you have stopped paying for the car, or just allowed yourself to become weak with hunger until you could no longer get out of bed and then die? I'm assuming at some point you'd have made the choice to get rid of the car payment well prior to actually dying from hunger. Which is why I keep saying that it was a choice, and that food stamps enabled you to both buy food *and* keep your car.

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Also way to avoid directly answering what I asked in the first place.


I may have missed your question. What was it again?

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You have, however, clearly shown that you want what you said taken as "this suits my argument" and as such will respond to what you directly said. To be clear: food stamps are not people and so can not choose to be misused or abused. Way to go buddy.


Huh? Are you claiming that I directly said that food stamps were people? I'm kinda at a loss as to how to even respond to this bit.

Edited, Jan 9th 2013 6:18pm by gbaji
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#228 Jan 09 2013 at 8:40 PM Rating: Good
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I had a car payment and insurance that followed me totaling about 800 a month.


Why were you carrying liabilities of that size with such low income? Were you between jobs?
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#229 Jan 09 2013 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Gbaji, decide if you want your words to be taken literal or figuratively when you make your claims(point).


I said question but it was me wanting an answer more then phrasing that as a question.

Instead of quote directly just gonna save space. I spent two months, 8 weeks, paying for food, rent, my car, insurance. At that point the money I arrived with and what I was earning would not have kept me: employeed, with meds, food and a place to sleep. You are an idiot for thinking that me giving up my car would be the smart choice. Explain how a person would get around to earn the money, in my case Montana, to eat and pay bills. I starved, obviously not to death and so assuming starving means you die without question is just genius.

My choice to starve myself before, not just when I moved, was stupid how exactly. Seeing as I helped to take care of three younger siblings and my disabled mother while me and my dad worked our asses off is irrational how. Get your head out of your *** and enter the real world.

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Huh? Are you claiming that I directly said that food stamps were people? I'm kinda at a loss as to how to even respond to this bit.


You placed the blame on an inanimate object. It can not think, act, speak, do a thing. Living beings can however. You're responces all continue to support that food stamps are people. Food stamps are liable/to blame for people making "irrational" choices.
#230 Jan 09 2013 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Instead of quote directly just gonna save space. I spent two months, 8 weeks, paying for food, rent, my car, insurance. At that point the money I arrived with and what I was earning would not have kept me: employeed, with meds, food and a place to sleep. You are an idiot for thinking that me giving up my car would be the smart choice. Explain how a person would get around to earn the money, in my case Montana, to eat and pay bills. I starved, obviously not to death and so assuming starving means you die without question is just genius.

You appear to be (or have been at least) a fucking mess. You're not a great argument for food stamps. Better mental health and education programs, yes. You're pretty much the argument against food stamps as a practical matter. Most people using food stamps aren't doing so because the can't afford food and their $800 a month transportation tab.
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#231 Jan 09 2013 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
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I have never once seen you concede a point, no matter how many facts have been thrown your way.


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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#232 Jan 09 2013 at 9:17 PM Rating: Default
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Zymunn wrote:
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Gbaji, decide if you want your words to be taken literal or figuratively when you make your claims(point).


I said question but it was me wanting an answer more then phrasing that as a question.


Oh. You were serious? Sorry. I forget that you're new here. Everyone else knows how futile that would be. Literally. Smiley: tongue

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Instead of quote directly just gonna save space. I spent two months, 8 weeks, paying for food, rent, my car, insurance. At that point the money I arrived with and what I was earning would not have kept me: employeed, with meds, food and a place to sleep. You are an idiot for thinking that me giving up my car would be the smart choice. Explain how a person would get around to earn the money, in my case Montana, to eat and pay bills. I starved, obviously not to death and so assuming starving means you die without question is just genius.


Perhaps giving up a car that cost you $800/month and buying a more reasonable one would have been a better choice though. Maybe you were exaggerating the cost, but that's a huge amount for a car plus insurance. You should easily be able to afford a "normal" vehicle for half of that. And gee! That would mean $400/month for food. Plenty.

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My choice to starve myself before, not just when I moved, was stupid how exactly.


I'm not sure how this refute my point that most people go hungry, not because they absolutely cannot feed themselves, but because they make choices to spend money on other things instead of food. You're really proving my point for me perfectly. Thanks!

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Seeing as I helped to take care of three younger siblings and my disabled mother while me and my dad worked our asses off is irrational how. Get your head out of your *** and enter the real world.


That's wonderful and all, but it does not change the fact that you did exactly what I've been saying people tend to do. Not all of them, mind you, but a high enough percentage that we ought to take it into account when making decisions like how we help people get food. In your case, the food stamps were utterly unnecessary towards the purpose of preventing hunger. I can be called callous for observing that many people on food stamps really don't need the money (and am, quite often), but when hearing a story like yours, it should make people think that maybe a bit of callousness is what's needed.

That or a swift kick in the side of the head.

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Quote:
Huh? Are you claiming that I directly said that food stamps were people? I'm kinda at a loss as to how to even respond to this bit.


You placed the blame on an inanimate object. It can not think, act, speak, do a thing. Living beings can however. You're responces all continue to support that food stamps are people. Food stamps are liable/to blame for people making "irrational" choices.


A really hard kick.
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#233 Jan 09 2013 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Instead of quote directly just gonna save space. I spent two months, 8 weeks, paying for food, rent, my car, insurance. At that point the money I arrived with and what I was earning would not have kept me: employeed, with meds, food and a place to sleep. You are an idiot for thinking that me giving up my car would be the smart choice. Explain how a person would get around to earn the money, in my case Montana, to eat and pay bills. I starved, obviously not to death and so assuming starving means you die without question is just genius.

You appear to be (or have been at least) a fucking mess. You're not a great argument for food stamps. Better mental health and education programs, yes. You're pretty much the argument against food stamps as a practical matter. Most people using food stamps aren't doing so because the can't afford food and their $800 a month transportation tab.


I went from earning roughly 2 grand a month, not on any govt assistance, easily afforded the 1600ish a month in bills I had. Moved across the country, one friend and her husband the only people I knew there and had it rough for a short while. 27 years of being a diabetic, never in the hospital for complications. My health is better then it should be. Blood test always showed I was within the parameters that doctors want for people in general.

As for mental health, can't clarify or deny any of that. I only take insulin for meds. Never had problems, other then extreme low blood sugar, dealing with anything on a mental level. I suffered for short periods of time which were far between and came out of it all.

For what its worth, I never followed a **** diet for my diabeties. I eat candy randomly, stuff myself full of carbs, no greenier as I just don't like it. My eye sight has remained the same and I have no complications related to diabeties. So yeah I am a wreck.
#234 Jan 09 2013 at 9:22 PM Rating: Default
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BrownDuck wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
...

I have never once seen you concede a point, no matter how many facts have been thrown your way.


See sig.


And as I said back then, facts alone don't mean anything. You have to use them in some form of argument if you want to refute what someone else is saying. 1+1=2 is a true statement. A fact, even. But it doesn't support or oppose the claim that "We're spending too much money" (or anything else really). Surely you can understand that?

Far too many people think that if they repeat true facts, that it makes their position true as well. They are wrong.

Edited, Jan 9th 2013 7:22pm by gbaji
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#235 Jan 09 2013 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Zymunn wrote:
I went from earning roughly 2 grand a month, not on any govt assistance, easily afforded the 1600ish a month in bills I had. Moved across the country, one friend and her husband the only people I knew there and had it rough for a short while.


Instead of telling us what you went "from", why not tell us what you went "to"? How much were you earning while still paying $800/month for a car and insurance? And frankly, even when you were making $2k/month, $800/month on a car and insurance is way way way too much. That's about what you should be paying for housing at that income rate (housing ideally being about half or less of your income if you can manage it). It sounds like you were making some really poor spending choices even before this change. But when you moved, you continued to spend money on the least necessary expense and went without on the most important.

You didn't need food stamps. You needed to take a home economics class.

Edited, Jan 9th 2013 7:28pm by gbaji
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#236 Jan 09 2013 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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My car payment, which I am almost done with, is 379 a month. My insurance, a year ago with some ****** state agency, was 430ish. No the greatest driving record as I grew up.

So I make less of a sacrifice, food, to be able to move. I starved, not let myself die from lack of food. Small difference to some, big enough difference in the end. By eating cheap ramen or some soda crackers with some cheese twice a day I had enough strength to make it through three weeks of having almost zero to eat. The once a week meal my friend held for her extended family helped as well.

My family did not recieve food stamps when me and my dad busted our asses to keep us all going. I cannot say if he refused to get the help, he is prideful, or if we got denied. Either case, no food stamps for us. Simple foods like rice maybe some beans and whatever meat we had or could get. I acctually still enjoy rice with spam or vienna sausages.
#237 Jan 09 2013 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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why not tell us what you went "to"?


Now I am back in FL at the job I left. Got a raise and something of a promotion. Work in a warehouse in the office mostly so less hours. I bring home now 2200 a month and bills are about the same 1700. Slightly hirer rent, living in an apartment that allows my gf to ride the bus to and from campus.

I did make alot of stupid choices growing up. Which is why I left everything and everyone I grew up.
#238 Jan 09 2013 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
...

I have never once seen you concede a point, no matter how many facts have been thrown your way.


See sig.


And as I said back then, facts alone don't mean anything.
EXCEPT FOR YOUR FACTS, AMIRITE?
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#239 Jan 09 2013 at 11:08 PM Rating: Good
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Far too many people think that if they repeat true facts, that it makes their position true as well. They are wrong.


Smiley: laugh

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And as I said back then, facts alone don't mean anything
.

Smiley: lol

Did you reread your awesome cite full of facts you used to derive your laughable conclusion from yesterday yet by the way?

Smiley: rolleyes

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#240 Jan 10 2013 at 2:39 AM Rating: Good
Okay, I'm genuinely curious. What kind of stupid *** **** did you do to have that expensive of car insurance? I'm 29, and granted I have no speeding tickets or accidents on my record and I pay about $50 a month for liability and emergency towing. Only bad mark I have against me is a bad credit score.

While I do think Gbaji makes a relatively decent point about the high expense of your vehicle, you are absolutely correct that cars in this day and age are pretty much a necessity. If you live somewhere without public transportation anyways. When trying to decide between food and my car, I'd have a really difficult time figuring that out where I currently live. I've got a 10 minute drive from my home to my work, so if I didn't have a car I'd be pretty much screwed. I guess I could sell the car and buy a bike? But still, where I live it's extremely rainy during the winter months. When you're desperate though, you're desperate.
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#241 Jan 10 2013 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Okay, I'm genuinely curious. What kind of stupid *** sh*t did you do to have that expensive of car insurance? I'm 29, and granted I have no speeding tickets or accidents on my record and I pay about $50 a month for liability and emergency towing. Only bad mark I have against me is a bad credit score.


When I was 21 or so, the insurance company I was with wanted me to pay about 400 dollars a month for just PLPD (Michigan's term for just Liability and Property Damage, bare bones insurance). It started out high, when I first started driving with them in High School, and increased every year for no reason other than they could. I remained accident free and moving violation free. I didn't even have any parking violations, even though those don't count against you. You act as though insurance companies trying to charge outrageous prices for basic coverage to young drivers is unusual?

Edited, Jan 10th 2013 7:02am by TirithRR
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#242 Jan 10 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
While I do think Gbaji makes a relatively decent point about the high expense of your vehicle, you are absolutely correct that cars in this day and age are pretty much a necessity. If you live somewhere without public transportation anyways

Having a car means you're making poor choices with your money since you could sell it and live off the profits and savings.
On the other hand, public transportation is a tool of liberal indoctrination and social engineering and true freedom only comes from living in communities where you need a car to get anywhere.

Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't. At least the liberals let you get groceries, I guess be it via food stamps or bus routes.
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#243 Jan 10 2013 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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While I do think Gbaji makes a relatively decent point about the high expense of your vehicle, you are absolutely correct that cars in this day and age are pretty much a necessity. If you live somewhere without public transportation anyways

A car, yes, a car that costs you $45,000 over 5 years, somewhat less so.
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#244 Jan 10 2013 at 8:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
...

I have never once seen you concede a point, no matter how many facts have been thrown your way.


See sig.


And as I said back then, facts alone don't mean anything. You have to use them in some form of argument if you want to refute what someone else is saying. 1+1=2 is a true statement. A fact, even. But it doesn't support or oppose the claim that "We're spending too much money" (or anything else really). Surely you can understand that?

Far too many people think that if they repeat true facts, that it makes their position true as well. They are wrong.

Edited, Jan 9th 2013 7:22pm by gbaji
If someone says to you, "1+1 = 2". And you say, "we're spending too much money".

Then what day of the week is it?

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#245 Jan 10 2013 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Um... I've presented observed data that supports my position.
Sure, you've said you've observed the data, but have never provided any evidence of such. The most recent being the "the election is going to be really close" arguments where your observed data made you absolutely certain how well Romney was doing, regardless of what all the actual data was saying.
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#246 Jan 10 2013 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Nothing burns my *** more than getting behind a first of the monther at the grocery store and looking in their buggy. I always see cases of name brand pop, multiple bags of name brand chips, top of the line steaks/meats, name brand bags of candy, etc. Then I look in mine, a person who works for a living, and I see store brand everything, little to no pop, chips, candy and the cheaper steaks/meat.

I don't think they should be able to buy any type of soda.
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#247 Jan 10 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
While I do think Gbaji makes a relatively decent point about the high expense of your vehicle, you are absolutely correct that cars in this day and age are pretty much a necessity. If you live somewhere without public transportation anyways

A car, yes, a car that costs you $45,000 over 5 years, somewhat less so.


This.
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#248 Jan 10 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Its because its a Lexus.
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#249 Jan 10 2013 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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Its because its a Lexus.


A used Lexus.
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#250 Jan 10 2013 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Introducing the new 2013 Lexus Proletariat. It's a used 2008 Lexus we sell to the middle class.
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#251 Jan 10 2013 at 12:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Introducing the new 2013 Lexus Proletariat. It's a used 2008 Lexus we sell to the middle class.
Lower middle class, Jophiel!.Smiley: mad


Edited, Jan 10th 2013 11:56am by Bijou
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