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#227 Dec 18 2012 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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How the hell did you arrive at that response? Of course not. I'm saying that once they snap and decide to kill a bunch of people, their ability to do so is in no way impaired by laws which prohibit concealed carry or which prohibit firearms entirely in specific areas (like near schools). They will not abide by the laws that say "you can't carry a firearm in this area", but the law abiding gun owners will. Get it?


Found where I was going with this and put it together wrong. If teachers had guns in class the moment they snapped just makes it that much easier. Even by revoking the ban on guns on school property.

Speaking of which, what state passed that guns can be carried on school grounds? Saw this one on fb from some gun-ho, arm the country "friend" of mine.

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If so how are you proposing the govt know when someone popped the last of the bubble wrap in their mind?


Read bolded. No need to comment on it as it does not apply. Treat it like a job application and put N/A if you just want to write bigger posts.
#228 Dec 18 2012 at 8:01 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:


Do you get the fallacy of yours? They cease to be law abiding once they snap and go on a murder spree.


Oh, you. You're like an adorable 6 year old with Down's Syndrome explaining why god exists. Don't ever change.


That was a bad whoosh, even for gbaji. Jeez.
#229 Dec 18 2012 at 9:05 PM Rating: Default
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Zymunn wrote:
Found where I was going with this and put it together wrong. If teachers had guns in class the moment they snapped just makes it that much easier. Even by revoking the ban on guns on school property.


That's a valid concern. But that's easily enough solved by the school district setting policy regarding that situation. I don't envision teachers having firearms on them while actually in a classroom teaching students. Not because I think teachers snapping and shooting their students is likely to occur at anywhere near the rate that mass shooters would do so, but because it would be far more likely for an unruly student to go for the gun and shoot someone.

Allowing faculty to have firearms on campus but not when not actively teaching class or otherwise interacting with students would be easy to do and relatively safe. They could be kept in various secure rooms (which there are a lot of on school campuses) out of reach of students, but potentially accessible in case of need. Point being that the specifics of how a school wants to handle this can be left to the school. But right now, it can't.

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Speaking of which, what state passed that guns can be carried on school grounds? Saw this one on fb from some gun-ho, arm the country "friend" of mine.


None. Well, some may have their own legislation, but the Gun Free School Zones Act is the federal law which imposes this restriction. So the states have no choice. The schools have no choice. It's a terrible and misguided law IMO. It basically takes the choice of how to manage gun violence in schools out of the hands of the states and into the hands of a federal government which seems more intent on bowing to misinformed knee jerk public reaction than to actually crafting laws that work.


What's really strange about the law is that actual mass shootings at schools had been on the decline for some time. The problem with guns in school was mostly gang related and involved specifically targeted people who happened to be at school, not random killings with the school being the chosen area (and to be fair most school shootings in the history of the US were of this nature). It was really only *after* the law was passed that we started seeing a noticeable uptick in the random target style mass shootings on school grounds. The law was presumably intended to allow police officers the ability to find and arrest people loitering around schools with guns (mostly dealing with gangs in the area), but it's of questionable value IMO. Sure, if adult gang members were menacing kids and carrying weapons that were otherwise legal (lots of states allow you to transport a firearm in a car without needing a special permit) I suppose you could keep them out. But that requires a specific effort on the part of police to spot potential violators and search them.

It just seems like by implementing a relatively weak solution to one problem, they created a much bigger one. Instead of allowing cities with problems with gangs in and around their schools to come up with their own solution, the federal government decided to implement a one-size-fits-all solution and force everyone to comply with it. But a solution that maybe makes sense in one area may not make any sense at all in another. Which is precisely the problem when you try to do things at the federal level.
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#230 Dec 18 2012 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
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Zymunn wrote:
Speaking of which, what state passed that guns can be carried on school grounds? Saw this one on fb from some gun-ho, arm the country "friend" of mine.


Today the Michigan governor vetoed a bill that would let concealed carry in schools. But he brought up a concern he had about Michigan's Open Carry which makes it legal to openly carry a firearm into any place that isn't expressly forbidden, which apparently includes schools. So while people with CPL cannot carry a concealed firearm on a campus, they could openly carry it. He made sure to mention however that school super superintendent or principal has say in who/what they allow on the school campus.

http://troy.patch.com/articles/snyder-vetoes-bill-allowing-concealed-pistols-in-schools

Edit:
Oh, and it's the CPL that lets you openly carry, not just having the registered gun.

Edited, Dec 18th 2012 10:30pm by TirithRR
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#231 Dec 18 2012 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
but because it would be far more likely for an unruly student to go for the gun and shoot someone.


Crikey! The definition of 'unruly' must be completely different in the US classroom than the ones I've been used to. Unruly in my experience usually leads to detention or some such, rather than the possibility of mass murder using firearms.

Gbaji wrote:
What's really strange about the law is that actual mass shootings at schools had been on the decline for some time.


31 school shootings since Columbine.




Edited, Dec 19th 2012 3:36am by paulsol
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#232 Dec 19 2012 at 12:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Guns. Lots of guns.
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#233 Dec 19 2012 at 7:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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A healing shot to the face.
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#234 Dec 19 2012 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
A healing shot to the face.


No, that's socialism.
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#235 Dec 19 2012 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:

Do you get the fallacy of yours? They cease to be law abiding once they snap and go on a murder spree.


Dude, seriously? Smiley: oyvey

We could try and identify people before this happens. Improvement in mental health facilities? I suppose that's going to be hit and miss. Not like diagnosing this is anywhere near a perfect science. Feels a little like punishing people before they break the law.

We could put armed guards at every school; then have someone attack the school bus instead. Or maybe give the school bus driver a gun, and the soccer coach, and the boy scout leader, and... Well you get the idea.

We could take away everyone's guns (irony), but that's not exactly popular and a little like doing surgery with a sledge hammer.

So we just learn to live with it?

I need a hug... Smiley: frown
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#236 Dec 19 2012 at 10:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
We could try and identify people before this happens. Improvement in mental health facilities? I suppose that's going to be hit and miss. Not like diagnosing this is anywhere near a perfect science. Feels a little like punishing people before they break the law.
You can't diagnose for "may go on a murder spree" but you can provide adequate mental health care and reintegration for people who are diagnosed with mental health disorders which would help most of these people to work towards becoming a valuable member of society (again) instead of getting isolated from society.
#237 Dec 19 2012 at 11:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
We could try and identify people before this happens. Improvement in mental health facilities? I suppose that's going to be hit and miss. Not like diagnosing this is anywhere near a perfect science. Feels a little like punishing people before they break the law.
You can't diagnose for "may go on a murder spree" but you can provide adequate mental health care and reintegration for people who are diagnosed with mental health disorders which would help most of these people to work towards becoming a valuable member of society (again) instead of getting isolated from society.
I'm not sure how we do this, just afraid there's a long way to go over here before something like this is effective. There's still stigma and costs associated with the diagnosis, and no one can force you to show up for therapy.
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#238 Dec 19 2012 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
We could try and identify people before this happens. Improvement in mental health facilities? I suppose that's going to be hit and miss. Not like diagnosing this is anywhere near a perfect science. Feels a little like punishing people before they break the law.
You can't diagnose for "may go on a murder spree" but you can provide adequate mental health care and reintegration for people who are diagnosed with mental health disorders which would help most of these people to work towards becoming a valuable member of society (again) instead of getting isolated from society.

The anti-bullying campaign could help. I'd think kids that get bullied, teased, sidelined and ignored by their peers are at risk for ballistic behavior.
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#239 Dec 19 2012 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Now my wife wants me to get a gun.

Tell her you don't need the gun and if she persists punch her in the face and say "see!"

(don't actually do that second part)

Of course not, she *does* have a gun. All I have is a hatchet. Well, that I keep in the car. My assortment of wood axes, splitting mauls and sledgehammers would serve pretty well in the Zombpocalypse.
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#240 Dec 19 2012 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hatchets are just as efficient as guns for killing people.
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#241 Dec 19 2012 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
We could try and identify people before this happens. Improvement in mental health facilities? I suppose that's going to be hit and miss. Not like diagnosing this is anywhere near a perfect science. Feels a little like punishing people before they break the law.
You can't diagnose for "may go on a murder spree"


We just need a few precogs and we're set.
#242 Dec 19 2012 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Hatchets are just as efficient as guns for killing people.

Depends on the range. I can only throw accurately at ~15ft. After that it becomes a WMD.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#243 Dec 19 2012 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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There's a strong chance that this will upset the whole order of gun control sometime in the future. Interesting stuff, that budding personal 3D printing industry.

Edited, Dec 19th 2012 1:45pm by Eske
#244 Dec 19 2012 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira wrote:

Personally, I think the real answer is addressing mental health issues. Look at Canada. They don't ban guns, but they don't have mass shootings every other year either. I personally think its because everyone there has access to a mental health professional and the means to pay for it (universal healthcare).


His Excellency Aethien wrote:
You can't diagnose for "may go on a murder spree" but you can provide adequate mental health care and reintegration for people who are diagnosed with mental health disorders which would help most of these people to work towards becoming a valuable member of society (again) instead of getting isolated from society.


Both very good thoughts, but what is being swept under the rug in these instances is possibly the most important component of all of theses mass killings: the fact that these acts are overwhelmingly commited by men, who are also, incidentally, the least likely to admit they need\accept help (at least here in America).

Until we fix the problems in a society where males are discouraged from getting the emotional support and help they need, we'll continue to watch things like this happen.
#245 Dec 19 2012 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
We could try and identify people before this happens. Improvement in mental health facilities? I suppose that's going to be hit and miss. Not like diagnosing this is anywhere near a perfect science. Feels a little like punishing people before they break the law.
You can't diagnose for "may go on a murder spree" but you can provide adequate mental health care and reintegration for people who are diagnosed with mental health disorders which would help most of these people to work towards becoming a valuable member of society (again) instead of getting isolated from society.

The anti-bullying campaign could help. I'd think kids that get bullied, teased, sidelined and ignored by their peers are at risk for ballistic behavior.

I totally agree. Not to mention the increase in suicides we've had in the last couple years. When I'm a teacher I intend on keeping a strong eye out for bullying. It's time to stop shrugging it off like it's just a part of life.
#246 Dec 19 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
We could try and identify people before this happens. Improvement in mental health facilities? I suppose that's going to be hit and miss. Not like diagnosing this is anywhere near a perfect science. Feels a little like punishing people before they break the law.
You can't diagnose for "may go on a murder spree" but you can provide adequate mental health care and reintegration for people who are diagnosed with mental health disorders which would help most of these people to work towards becoming a valuable member of society (again) instead of getting isolated from society.
I'm not sure how we do this, just afraid there's a long way to go over here before something like this is effective. There's still stigma and costs associated with the diagnosis, and no one can force you to show up for therapy.
Make housing available for those with mental illness, including 24/7 available help, mandatory therapy up to closed ward in extreme cases, limited amounts of free drugs for addicts so they don't go out stealing (and stay where they can get help), work/learn environments where people with a mental disorder can work and learn in an environment that is both accepting of them and that keeps in mind what they can and can't do. Just to name a few things that are possible.
Of course all of that does cost money but then again, imprisoning people costs money, people stealing to be able to pay for drugs costs money, people incapable of joining the workforce on their own and thus doomed to unemployment cost money etc etc.

BrownDuck wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
We could try and identify people before this happens. Improvement in mental health facilities? I suppose that's going to be hit and miss. Not like diagnosing this is anywhere near a perfect science. Feels a little like punishing people before they break the law.
You can't diagnose for "may go on a murder spree"


We just need a few precogs and we're set.
No problem.
#247 Dec 19 2012 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Both very good thoughts, but what is being swept under the rug in these instances is possibly the most important component of all of theses mass killings: the fact that these acts are overwhelmingly commited by men, who are also, incidentally, the least likely to admit they need\accept help (at least here in America).

Until we fix the problems in a society where males are discouraged from getting the emotional support and help they need, we'll continue to watch things like this happen.


A few dead kids is a small price to pay to avoid a nation of pussies. Have you been to Belgium? Terrifying.
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#248 Dec 19 2012 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've heard they have a king there, too. Probably because they don't have enough guns.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#249 Dec 19 2012 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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A swear word and a pointy stick and you can terrify the masses into submission. What's not to love?
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#250 Dec 19 2012 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I've heard they have a king there, too. Probably because they don't have enough guns.
Nah, it's because they have a lot of beer and a language in which just about anything you say sounds funny.
#251 Dec 19 2012 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Alright. Then all's I got is the Injuns

Meh what's a few million dead when you give them casino liscenes 8 generations later. Omelet, eggs, amirite? Tough to qualify the millions of dead slaves as "just" discrimination, but whatever. Could we agree it was at least 3/5ths of a genocide?
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

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