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#1 Sep 05 2012 at 7:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I had a blast watching the Obama team waterboard Romney last night. Does that make me a bad person?
#2 Sep 05 2012 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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I gagged a couple times listening to Michelle O. I liked the Mayor of San Antonio though. He gave Romney a good pounding.
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#3 Sep 05 2012 at 7:37 AM Rating: Decent
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"We didn't [insert mundane task made easy here], No, we [insert mundane task but not so easy here]" X 15

I cringed every time.

I think she did really well overall though.

Edited, Sep 5th 2012 9:39am by Yodabunny
#4 Sep 05 2012 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Mayor of San Antonio though.


Is that the older guy or the young twin?

I fully expect the young twin to open up a Tie shop franchise and be a billionaire by the weekend. They'll call it Young Twin Ties.
#5 Sep 05 2012 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Mayor of San Antonio though.


Is that the older guy or the young twin?

I fully expect the young twin to open up a Tie shop franchise and be a billionaire by the weekend. They'll call it Young Twin Ties.
Yeah, the twin - Castro. He even managed to keep Biden from falling asleep.
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#6 Sep 05 2012 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Dude has some serious energy.
#7 Sep 05 2012 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
"We didn't [insert mundane task made easy here], No, we [insert mundane task but not so easy here]" X 15

I cringed every time.

Standard connection to lower/middle class voters. Any jamoke can say they ate ice cream with their kids or whatever. Everyone eats ice cream with their kids. Being able to say you've shared the working-class experience of deciding which bills to pay or putting off purchases is something the Obamas can say they've done and the Romneys can not. Whether or not you think that's a significant difference is up to you but obviously they're going to put it out there.
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#8 Sep 05 2012 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh I had no problem with the message at all. It's a great message and I think one of Obama's biggest pluses. It's the way she said the word No (literally just that word), it felt over-dramatic, too forced like it was kind of jammed in there and was repeated a little much I think. Like I said I think she did a great job and while perhaps an unfair criticism (I couldn't have done better, not even remotely close) it IS something I noticed.

Not that my opinion really matters being Canadian and all.
#9 Sep 05 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:


Not that my opinion really matters being Canadian and all.
WTF is going on in Canada anyways.

Maple Syrup scandals, politicians getting shot...you guys get a bad batch of beer?
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#10gbaji, Posted: Sep 05 2012 at 3:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm sure they'll try. It just doesn't ring very true though. The reality is that the Obama's life path is not even remotely like the typical person's. It's not about how much money they have today, but how they got there. I just think this is a hard sell for the Obama's. Don't blame them for trying of course, but lets not kid ourselves about the reality of the situation.
#11 Sep 05 2012 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
As opposed to two people meeting while attending ivy league colleges,
Clearly they should have met while going to a $20,000/year private grade school.
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#12 Sep 05 2012 at 3:51 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
As opposed to two people meeting while attending ivy league colleges,
Clearly they should have met while going to a $20,000/year private grade school.


Correct. Obama did not meet his wife while he was attending a prestigious private school in Hawaii. It was years later that he met her. What was your point again?
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#13 Sep 05 2012 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
What was your point again?
That I could get you to completely avoid any actual fact checking when it comes to Romney. Smiley: smile
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#14 Sep 05 2012 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Yodabunny wrote:
"We didn't [insert mundane task made easy here], No, we [insert mundane task but not so easy here]" X 15

I cringed every time.

Standard connection to lower/middle class voters. Any jamoke can say they ate ice cream with their kids or whatever. Everyone eats ice cream with their kids. Being able to say you've shared the working-class experience of deciding which bills to pay or putting off purchases is something the Obamas can say they've done and the Romneys can not. Whether or not you think that's a significant difference is up to you but obviously they're going to put it out there.


That's a bit unfair, Romney has been part of the decision making process in deciding which companies he invests in pay their bills and which ones don't to minimize the losses prior to getting ready for one of several bankruptcy strategies. I'm sure they've also had to put of purchases at various companies, such as employee healthcare plans.
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#15 Sep 05 2012 at 4:55 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
What was your point again?
That I could get you to completely avoid any actual fact checking when it comes to Romney. Smiley: smile


So you looked up the yearly tuition cost for attending the Punahou School in Hawaii, right? Cause one of them went to an expensive private school and the other... wait a minute! They both did! But you'd know that if you bothered to fact-check Obama, wouldn't you?
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#16 Sep 05 2012 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
wait a minute! They both did
I'm so proud that you're catching up, even if it is baby steps.
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#17gbaji, Posted: Sep 05 2012 at 5:01 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So Romney has experience making tough economic decisions and a track record of making ones which result in positive economic outcomes. While Obama's experience with money has basically been filling out grant forms to get some one else to pay for whatever pet project he's been asked to find funding for (which really explains a lot if you think about it).
#18 Sep 05 2012 at 5:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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We should fire Mississippi, North Dakota, Alaska, and Alabama. You know, low performing sectors. Like a business.
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#19 Sep 05 2012 at 5:16 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Yodabunny wrote:
"We didn't [insert mundane task made easy here], No, we [insert mundane task but not so easy here]" X 15

I cringed every time.

Standard connection to lower/middle class voters. Any jamoke can say they ate ice cream with their kids or whatever. Everyone eats ice cream with their kids. Being able to say you've shared the working-class experience of deciding which bills to pay or putting off purchases is something the Obamas can say they've done and the Romneys can not. Whether or not you think that's a significant difference is up to you but obviously they're going to put it out there.


That's a bit unfair, Romney has been part of the decision making process in deciding which companies he invests in pay their bills and which ones don't to minimize the losses prior to getting ready for one of several bankruptcy strategies. I'm sure they've also had to put of purchases at various companies, such as employee healthcare plans.


So Romney has experience making tough economic decisions and a track record of making ones which result in positive economic outcomes. While Obama's experience with money has basically been filling out grant forms to get some one else to pay for whatever pet project he's been asked to find funding for (which really explains a lot if you think about it).

You're right! It's so hard to see which one would be better able to get us out of our economic situation. No. Actually, it's not.


Well, he has experience in maximizing profits for himself and his investors, no matter the cost to other people. I don't want the country run that way though.
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#20 Sep 05 2012 at 5:23 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
wait a minute! They both did
I'm so proud that you're catching up, even if it is baby steps.


I've been like 10 steps ahead of you the whole time though. Both candidates attended expensive private schools. So what's the point of bringing the issue up in the context of a comparison of the two candidates? Unless one's banking on the general ignorance about the history of Obama, that is?
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#21 Sep 05 2012 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
So what's the point of bringing the issue up in the context of a comparison of the two candidates?
Let's see if you're even one step near me, much less ten ahead. "What is the point of bringing up the issue of the candidates schooling?"
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#22 Sep 05 2012 at 5:30 PM Rating: Default
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Technogeek wrote:
Well, he has experience in maximizing profits for himself and his investors, no matter the cost to other people. I don't want the country run that way though.


Except that "maximizing profits" in this context means decreasing government costs relative to government revenues, so the winners of his actions would be all of us. He has experience finding ways to take companies that are struggling and near (or in) bankruptcy and turning them around. That's how he made his money. That would sure seem to be exactly the skill set we need right now, wouldn't you agree?


The contrast is to Obama, whose economic experience basically makes him the equivalent of a kid running the candy store. He's spent his entire professional career basically fighting to get the candy store owner to give out free candy. Now, he's in charge, and people are wondering why the store is going bankrupt? I mean, it's not really that hard to figure out. And if Romney has to be the mean store owner who doesn't give people free candy in order to prevent the store from closing entirely (meaning, if you follow the analogy, that no one gets any candy), then that's exactly what we should be doing.

I'm seeing a whole lot of people basically saying that Romney is exactly the guy we need as President.
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#23 Sep 05 2012 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
So what's the point of bringing the issue up in the context of a comparison of the two candidates?
Let's see if you're even one step near me, much less ten ahead. "What is the point of bringing up the issue of the candidates schooling?"


I thought I just explained this. Because if you assume that most people don't realize that Obama also attended an expensive private school, you can make it seem like Romney's experience growing up is less like the typical American's (than Obama's) if you point out that he did. But to answer your question: There isn't much point (in this context) to bringing up the issue of the candidates schooling. There is a whole lot of point to bringing up just Romney's though.


At least that's what I assume it was about. If you think there was some other purpose for the whole "met his wife while attending a $20k/year private school" comment, by all means spill it. It was your point, after all. So why did you say it?

Edited, Sep 5th 2012 4:38pm by gbaji
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#24 Sep 05 2012 at 5:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I don't think her diatribe connects her to the lower/middle class voters at all.

Says the guy who can have the government seize nearly $100k for unpaid taxes and it's an inconvenience rather than a life-altering even. Well, I suppose you have your finger on the pulse of middle America.

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As opposed to two people meeting while attending ivy league colleges

I love how Republicans try to tear down the Obamas for working their asses off and studying and attending some of the best schools in the nation. No "Holy shit, that would be an impressive feat even if you came from better circumstances, but that you raised yourself up to that is really something and we salute your obvious hard work and sacrifice" but rather "LOL they went to IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS!!!!" As though you just roll someone down a hill towards a college and it opens its doors and lets you in.

The hypocrisy is hilarious.
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#25 Sep 05 2012 at 5:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Except that "maximizing profits" in this context means decreasing government costs relative to government revenues, so the winners of his actions would be all of us. He has experience finding ways to take companies that are struggling and near (or in) bankruptcy and turning them around.
Except running a business is nothing like running a country, since you're pretty much required in a business to cut low performing sectors and personnel along with cutting costs to maximize revenue. Which is hilarious every time people mention the country should be run as a business, since it becomes painfully obvious those same people slept through their high school economics classes. Though, I'm all for firing a few states. We could probably hire a few Mexican territories to replace them, since they work more for less pay.
gbaji wrote:
So why did you say it?
Why would I need to explain something from step one to you if you're "ten steps ahead" already? Or are you admitting you ran in the wrong direction? I, in my benevolence, might be convinced to use tiny words and explain it if you admit you have no idea what you're talking about. Smiley: smile

You still haven't quite got it, but you're really close.
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#26 Sep 05 2012 at 6:35 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I don't think her diatribe connects her to the lower/middle class voters at all.

Says the guy who can have the government seize nearly $100k for unpaid taxes and it's an inconvenience rather than a life-altering even. Well, I suppose you have your finger on the pulse of middle America.


That they're more concerned by the government taking (and wasting) their money than the government not spending enough on foodstamps? Yeah. I think that's pretty much exactly the viewpoint of most of the middle class in America. Given the assumption of being "middle class", I'd expect that most are far far more concerned about what they have being taken away, than the government failing to provide something they don't really need (or want).

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Quote:
As opposed to two people meeting while attending ivy league colleges

I love how Republicans try to tear down the Obamas for working their asses off and studying and attending some of the best schools in the nation.


Not what I'm doing at all. I am merely questioning the idea that somehow the Obama's are more in touch with the average American than the Romney's are. You're projecting.

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No "Holy shit, that would be an impressive feat even if you came from better circumstances, but that you raised yourself up to that is really something and we salute your obvious hard work and sacrifice" but rather "LOL they went to IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS!!!!" As though you just roll someone down a hill towards a college and it opens its doors and lets you in.


Which would be a valid point if only one candidate "came from better circumstances". Once again you completely misunderstand the point I'm making. You think I'm attacking Obama for attending an ivy league school. But that's pure projection. I'm pointing out that both of them had remarkably similar education histories. They both attended public schools early on (Obama less than Romney actually). Both began attending more prestigious private schools later (Obama starting around 4th grade, Romney around 7th). Both then went on to college in California (Obama to Occidental, Romney to Stanford). Romney spent a couple years on his Mission, then finished his BA in English at BYU. Obama transferred to Columbia and completed his BA in Political Science, then spent time working in Chicago for political organizations. Both finished out their education at Harvard. Obama at Harvard Law, obtaining a Juris Doctor, Romney at Harvard Law and Harvard Business, obtaining a Juris Doctor and MBA respectively.


To suggest that one of them is somehow more out of touch than the other purely because of their history growing up and their education is pretty ridiculous. Yet, that appears to be exactly what the political left is attempting to do. They paint Obama as this man of the people, struggling to raise his station in life against great odds, while Romney just had life handed to him on a silver platter. The reality is that both men had advantages in life and both men took those advantages and used them to advance themselves. I'm not attacking Obama for his education. I'm countering that false perception that he somehow had it harder than Romney did.

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The hypocrisy is hilarious.


Yes, it is quite hilarious when people attempt to make it seem like Obama is more in touch with the average American than Romney. Let's not forget that this part of the thread started when someone made a comment suggesting that the Obamas struggled, but the Romneys did not. I have passed no judgment on the facts of Obama's education and history except to point out that it's a lot more similar to that of Romney's than most people seem to realize.
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#27 Sep 05 2012 at 6:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think Ann would have married Mitt if he picked her up for dates in a car so rusty she could see the street through a hole in the door.

Also, the Obamas only finished paying off their student loans about eight years ago. The Romneys had no student loans.

Edited, Sep 5th 2012 8:40pm by catwho
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#28 Sep 05 2012 at 6:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Given the assumption of being "middle class", I'd expect that most are far far more concerned about what they have being taken away, than the government failing to provide something they don't really need (or want).

Well, thanks for speaking for my bracket. Do we owe you a check now or what?

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I love how Republicans try to tear down the Obamas for working their asses off and studying and attending some of the best schools in the nation.
Not what I'm doing at all.

Heh... sure. Just keep saying I'm "projecting" and that will make it less hypocritical Smiley: laugh

Edited, Sep 5th 2012 7:40pm by Jophiel
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#29 Sep 05 2012 at 6:46 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Except that "maximizing profits" in this context means decreasing government costs relative to government revenues, so the winners of his actions would be all of us. He has experience finding ways to take companies that are struggling and near (or in) bankruptcy and turning them around.
Except running a business is nothing like running a country, since you're pretty much required in a business to cut low performing sectors and personnel along with cutting costs to maximize revenue.


That's half of the equation, sure. I'm sorry. Is "cutting federal spending" something that people aren't clamoring for right now? Cause I thought it was. So someone who knows where and what and how much to cut would seem to be the kind of guy we need, while the guy who has never had to cut spending for anything in his life would be clueless. You get that Obama has never in his life been the guy on the other side of the counter having to make sure that spending stays under revenue, right? He's always been the guy trying to convince the other guy to give him a better deal.

That's why Romney is vastly better at dealing with our current economic woes.

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Which is hilarious every time people mention the country should be run as a business, since it becomes painfully obvious those same people slept through their high school economics classes.


Or perhaps, they know exactly what they're talking about and realize that what we need right now is someone who can find ways to cut spending. The folks who slept through economics class are the ones who think that some magic process will occur that will allow us to continue to spend more money than we have and not suffer any ill effects.

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Though, I'm all for firing a few states. We could probably hire a few Mexican territories to replace them, since they work more for less pay.


Yup. Definitely slept through economics class. Firing states? Are you kidding? WTF does that even mean? Federal budgets don't work that way btw.


Quote:
gbaji wrote:
So why did you say it?
Why would I need to explain something from step one to you if you're "ten steps ahead" already? Or are you admitting you ran in the wrong direction? I, in my benevolence, might be convinced to use tiny words and explain it if you admit you have no idea what you're talking about. Smiley: smile


Oh. I know exactly what I'm talking about, and I've been quite clear about it. What's not so clear is what you're talking about though. I can't read your mind. I can only respond to what you post. And based on your posts, I've speculated about what your argument is. Now, if I'm wrong, by all means correct me. But you haven't even said that I'm wrong. Just kinda danced around the issue.


We're not really going to play the "guess what I meant" game again? Cause it was so productive the last 8 times.

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You still haven't quite got it, but you're really close.


Yeah. Sure. If you want to clarify what you meant by the comment about meeting someone while attending a $20k/year grade school, then do so. If not, don't ***** that I'm wrong about what you meant. Pick one.
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#30 Sep 05 2012 at 7:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Firing states? Are you kidding? WTF does that even mean?
So you have less than no idea how a business works, but that generic "made tough choices" and "made profitable" bullet points just sound really good to you so you're just going to repeat that instead, especially if no one tells you just what those tough choices were. I'm only left to believe what you think a tough business choice is is to get toilet paper from Costco instead of Wal-mart.
gbaji wrote:
Yeah. Sure.
You're the one ten steps ahead. It'd be rude of me to explain something you boasted you understood and were far ahead of. To be fair, you're neither closer or farther than your last post.
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#31gbaji, Posted: Sep 05 2012 at 7:08 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't know if the Romneys had student loans to pay off or not. Let's also not forget that Romney graduated Harvard when Obama was in 8th grade (and 16 years before Obama did). So the age equivalent statement would be that the Obamas "only finished paying off their student loans 24 years ago". Not quite the same dramatic statement, is it?
#32 Sep 05 2012 at 7:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I tend to remember and be impacted by things that happened eight years ago than I am by things that happened 24 years ago so the difference seems significant enough to me.

Assuming, of course, that Romney had loans which seems fairly unlikely.
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This is the family that went on trips driving the whole group (5 boys in the car and a dog in the roof carrier) in the family station wagon. That's a lot more Griswald, and not so much Rockefeller. Wouldn't you agree?

Depends on the station wagon.

Edited, Sep 5th 2012 8:17pm by Jophiel
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#33ThiefX, Posted: Sep 05 2012 at 7:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) LMAO lolgaxe is trying desperately to run away from a stupid comment he made without admitting he was wrong. Joph must be so proud of you.
#34 Sep 05 2012 at 7:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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How was the football game with your tens of thousands of guests? Smiley: smile
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#35ThiefX, Posted: Sep 05 2012 at 7:23 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Pretty **** good actually. USC won.
#36 Sep 05 2012 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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That's good, I'd hate for you and all those guests to have had a lousy time.
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#37 Sep 05 2012 at 8:14 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
I tend to remember and be impacted by things that happened eight years ago than I am by things that happened 24 years ago so the difference seems significant enough to me.


Sure. And when Obama is the same number of years out of college that Romney is, he'll have paid his loans off 24 years ago. I didn't think my point was that hard to grasp.

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Assuming, of course, that Romney had loans which seems fairly unlikely.


Kind of irrelevant, isn't it? I mean, both of them have paid for their education. At what time and what rate isn't really very significant, is it?


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This is the family that went on trips driving the whole group (5 boys in the car and a dog in the roof carrier) in the family station wagon. That's a lot more Griswald, and not so much Rockefeller. Wouldn't you agree?

Depends on the station wagon.


Given the time period? I don't think it does
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#38 Sep 05 2012 at 8:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't think my point was that hard to grasp either and here it slipped right through your fingers. Interesting, huh?
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#39 Sep 05 2012 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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All things considered, Clark Griswald as President is a lot less appealing than Rockefeller, and he's been dead for 75 years.
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#40 Sep 05 2012 at 9:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd forgotten what an amazing orator Clinton is.
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#41 Sep 05 2012 at 9:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Haha... f-you, television networks who thought you were going to broadcast a single hour of DNC tonight.
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#42 Sep 05 2012 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I'd forgotten what an amazing orator Clinton is.
He made raising his state's education level from last to 49th sound like an impressive accomplishment, so gotta give him that.
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#43 Sep 05 2012 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
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This is the family that went on trips driving the whole group (5 boys in the car and a dog in the roof carrier) in the family station wagon.


The idea that even idiot uniformed "independent voters" are buying that the Governor of Michigan's kid with his JD and MBA from Harvard paid for by daddy was struggling to get by stretches credulity a bit, doesn't it? Particularly given Romney's persona generally. W could get away with seeming like a regular guy, he had a common touch. A fake Texas accent, a real drinking problem, people could forget he want to Andover and was a Legacy at Yale. Romney probably could have gone to Harvard if he'd been born poor, he's smart and ambitious, but the reality is that because of who his father is he could also have gone to Harvard if he was dull and lazy.

He's got a ****** back story, you need to just accept it and move on. He's a rich kid who had every advantage who happens to be smart and genuinely talented at capitalism. He may have gotten to the same places being born to a poor mother in Hope, AK. He wasn't though. He was born to a rich family, daddy gave him the money to start Bain, etc. Pretending he pulled himself up by his magic underpants doesn't do you or him any good.
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#44 Sep 06 2012 at 6:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Kind of irrelevant, isn't it? I mean, both of them have paid for their education. At what time and what rate isn't really very significant, is it?


It's THE relevant fact in the discussion of which candidate's experience resonates with the lower/middle classes.

One could afford, or had a father who could afford, to pay for his education up front. One had to take on debt. How is that not relevant to the discussion?
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Samira wrote:
Quote:
Kind of irrelevant, isn't it? I mean, both of them have paid for their education. At what time and what rate isn't really very significant, is it?


It's THE relevant fact in the discussion of which candidate's experience resonates with the lower/middle classes.

One could afford, or had a father who could afford, to pay for his education up front. One had to take on debt. How is that not relevant to the discussion?

Spending 10 years after college paying a mortgage or spending 10 years paying student loans and rent does basically the same thing for your personal equity, right?

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#46 Sep 06 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
How is that not relevant to the discussion?
It's irrelevant because those details are counter-intuitive in their attempts to make Romney more relatable to the common drones.
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#47 Sep 06 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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How to turn a 20-25 minute speech into a 50 minute speech.

Transcript of Clinton's prepared remarks with ad-libbed additions included in blue.
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#48 Sep 06 2012 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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So basically the speech-writing team is having severe anxiety about their job security this morning?
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#49 Sep 06 2012 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
How to turn a 20-25 minute speech into a 50 minute speech.

Transcript of Clinton's prepared remarks with ad-libbed additions included in blue.


Interesting stuff. Thanks for the link.
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#50 Sep 06 2012 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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So basically the speech-writing team is having severe anxiety about their job security this morning?

Nah, contrary to common belief, no one just reads verbatim off prompter. Clinton, obviously is towards the social genius side of the scale at adding content based on audience reaction, and Biden towards the social idiot side of the scale, but they all ad lib.
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#51 Sep 06 2012 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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Clinton wrote:
People always ask me how we managed to get four surplus budgets in a row. What new ideas did we bring to Washington? I always give a one word answer: Arithmetic.


That tickled me somewhat.

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