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I fought the [s]law[/s] IRS and...Follow

#1 Jun 18 2012 at 8:34 PM Rating: Good
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I wongot away without getting more screwed than expected!

Or...

How gbaji got a Karma reward (thought that was out of the blue didn't ya?)


So... Let me preface this by saying that like 10 years ago, I did something really stupid. No, not that stupid thing. Nope. Not that other one either. I was buying my condo and sold a bunch of shares and exercised some options to do it. Well, being the relatively young and foolish lad I was back then, when tax time came around I didn't know how to figure out my taxes and didn't want to pay someone to do them for me so I did what any person would do (NOTE!: Don't ever do this. It's really dumb. Seriously. Not kidding!). I just didn't file. Yeah. Not the brightest move in my life (and I've made some dumb moves, so that's saying something).

Fast forward to 2 years ago (ish). IRS starts doing things like emptying out one of my banks accounts. Yippes. Guess I should deal with that, huh? I contact them and determine how much they think I owe. It's super ridiculously high. Basically, they assumed every penny was income with no deductions or gains or whatnot and calculated the base amount and all interest and fees from there. So I challenge the amount and they say I can file what I should have back then. Armed with better knowledge and whatnot, I determine that I really only owed about $4k or so back then, not the $50k or so they claimed. This somewhat dramatically decreased the amount of fines and fees.

Unfortunately, the wheels of IRS returns and IRS collections apparently move at different speeds. So I was still required to pay the full amount they claimed even though I'd filed a challenge. Now, I suppose I could have hired one of those tax attorneys or whatnot, but I'm a stubborn do it myselfer, so I just went with it. I ended out paying off the super duper large sum back in March of last year. It occurred to me that once I'd paid that full amount, the IRS would have pretty much zero incentive to spend any time or effort verifying my filing and giving me any of that money back. I'd pretty much reconciled myself to the fact that I wasn't likely to see any of that money. But I'd bought myself peace of mind, no longer having to worry about any debts hanging over my head (and still being relatively well off financially even after the hit).


So imagine my surprise when I check my mailbox last night (Sunday) and find a letter from the IRS. My first thought was "Oh Crap! What the hell did I forget, do wrong, or otherwise do that might result in them taking yet more money from me"? Then I read it. And read it again. They apparently did finally (only took them nearly two years!) do the math and concurred with my somewhat haphazard and guestimated math and were giving me a refund of $97k (and change)! Which is pretty much what I was asking for, best case. Yay! So still dorked, but not nearly as much as I was originally. And the good thing is that money I'd basically written off has returned to me.


So? Spending spree? Invest wisely? Huge party? I'd already planned on paying off the car (if said return ever showed up), but beyond that I'm not sure what to do with said money. I'm already planning on doing a refloor/refurnish of the house this summer, but I've got cash on hand for that. This is all pretty much bonus money at the moment. And I'm pretty jazzed. And was this a Karma reward? I hadn't actually checked the mail until Sunday night, so the box is just a cloud of probabilities up until that point, right? Hmmm...

Edited, Jun 18th 2012 7:35pm by gbaji
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#2 Jun 18 2012 at 8:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I did what any person would do


Factually incorrect.
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#3 Jun 18 2012 at 8:44 PM Rating: Decent
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#4 Jun 18 2012 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
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TL;DR.
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#6 Jun 18 2012 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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#7 Jun 18 2012 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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take us out for another Allafest Smiley: nod
Gratz, btw. Thats an awesome thing to come home to

Edited, Jun 18th 2012 11:27pm by DSD
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#8 Jun 18 2012 at 9:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Buy new furniture for your house.

Maybe a nice Chesterfield or an Ottoman.
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#9 Jun 18 2012 at 9:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Buy new furniture for your house.

Maybe a nice Chesterfield or an Ottoman.


Buy a green dress.

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#11 Jun 18 2012 at 10:52 PM Rating: Good
I didn't file in 2001 or so & received a bill from the state of MA for about $150.00 two years later. Still haven't heard from the FED, but I'm guessing that's 'cause I was due a refund of a whole $15 or so.
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#12 Jun 19 2012 at 12:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Invest wisely, and next year have a spending spree on the interest/dividends. Smiley: nod

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#13 Jun 19 2012 at 2:56 AM Rating: Good
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This, obviously.

Alternatively, send me fancy beers from the states, that'd be cool too.
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#14 Jun 19 2012 at 4:29 AM Rating: Good
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hahahahahahahahaha
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#15 Jun 19 2012 at 5:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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#16 Jun 19 2012 at 6:22 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
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I did what any person would do


Factually incorrect.

Seriously. Smiley: rolleyes

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#17 Jun 19 2012 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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#18 Jun 19 2012 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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A thousand times this.

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#19 Jun 19 2012 at 8:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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#20 Jun 19 2012 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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See, the IRS isn't totally full of evil vampires out to suck all good American citizens completely dry.

Congrats, gbaji. I concur with the idea of investing it this year and then going hog wild with the interest a few years down the road.
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#21 Jun 19 2012 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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You should make a sizeable donation to the "Bigdaddyug wants a 2013 Ford Focus ST" Fund. It's tax deductible!!















It's really not, but based on this story do you think there's any chance he knows that?

Edited, Jun 19th 2012 10:03am by Bigdaddyjug
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#22 Jun 19 2012 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: yippee

I recommend using it to hire someone to do your taxes for you. Smiley: nod
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#23 Jun 19 2012 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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97k+ to buy piece of mind..jesus christ...I had to scrape for 6 months to fix my daughters teeth...

Good for you though!
#24 Jun 19 2012 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
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I did what any person would do
Factually incorrect.

I wonder if Gbaji refrained from whining and bitching about where "his taxes" were going while willfully committing tax fraud because filing was too inconvenient.

Hahahaha.... just kidding of course. No one has to wonder at all.
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#25 Jun 19 2012 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Samira wrote:
Quote:
I did what any person would do
Factually incorrect.

I wonder if Gbaji refrained from whining and bitching about where "his taxes" were going while willfully committing tax fraud because filing was too inconvenient.

Hahahaha.... just kidding of course. No one has to wonder at all.


Well duh, he's learned it all from his GOP masters. IOKIARDI
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#26 Jun 19 2012 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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Shit... did you just have a stroke?
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#27 Jun 19 2012 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Technogeek wrote:
IOKIARDI

Shit... did you just have a stroke?


It's OK If A Republican Does It.
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#28 Jun 19 2012 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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Technogeek wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Technogeek wrote:
IOKIARDI

Shit... did you just have a stroke?


It's OK If A Republican Does It.
It probably takes less than one second to type out the words that we all know. It takes minutes - like a FULL minute and precious bytes to have to make another post to explain yourself

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#29 Jun 19 2012 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Elinda wrote:
Technogeek wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Technogeek wrote:
IOKIARDI

Shit... did you just have a stroke?


It's OK If A Republican Does It.
It probably takes less than one second to type out the words that we all know. It takes minutes - like a FULL minute and precious bytes to have to make another post to explain yourself



We all have our ways to +1.
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#30 Jun 19 2012 at 1:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was surprised to google it and find out it was really a thing. Rate downs for making me seem old and out of touch or something.
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#31 Jun 19 2012 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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The one I've seen before is IOKIYAR.

Its fair and balanced brother is IOKIYAD.
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#32 Jun 19 2012 at 3:00 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Samira wrote:
Quote:
I did what any person would do
Factually incorrect.

I wonder if Gbaji refrained from whining and bitching about where "his taxes" were going while willfully committing tax fraud because filing was too inconvenient.


It's not like I stopped paying taxes or anything. In fact, the IRS ultimately got a much larger chunk of my hard earned money as a result of me not filing on time than if I had. It's not like I concealed a source of income or anything.


I was already planning on putting in wood floors in my place and buying all new furniture in the living room and dining room. This will make things a lot less tight (obviously). Paying off the car is also obvious. Why pay interest on that if I don't have to? I'm torn on investing the remainder or paying down the mortgage. I'm at a pretty good rate and easily made payments, so the need for that isn't so great.
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#33 Jun 19 2012 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
It's not like I stopped paying taxes or anything.

Just not the proper amount.
Quote:
In fact, the IRS ultimately got a much larger chunk of my hard earned money as a result of me not filing on time than if I had.

Due to your tax fraud, correct. That's no sign of benevolence on your part that you got punished for refusing to file.
Quote:
It's not like I concealed a source of income or anything.

You mean like when you failed to file and consequently failed to properly report your income for the year?

But, hey, keep on crying about taxes when your means of handling them is to ignore them and then say "Ooohh, I was such a naughty boy, don't do that" after you're caught years later. If it took them two years to start emptying bank accounts, I can see you were all over doing the right thing to fix your situation.

At least now I can get a good laugh whenever you cry about taxes or welfare fraud or any instance of people gaming the system and costing "you" money for it.

Edited, Jun 19th 2012 4:19pm by Jophiel
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#34 Jun 19 2012 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: nod
#35gbaji, Posted: Jun 19 2012 at 3:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wow... Um. Someone piss in your cheerios this morning? I mean, feel free to sling around the whole "tax fraud" line, but what I did is legally less problematic than failing to pay a parking ticket on time. You're really reaching to turn this into some kind of a grand political statement.
#36 Jun 19 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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No grand political statement. I'm just a working American who pays his taxes on the basis of what he owes and when it's due. You're a guy who blows them off for years when it's inconvenient for you until you get caught. However you need to defend that is up to you.
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#37 Jun 19 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
No grand political statement.


Except for the whole "why are you complaining about how your tax dollars are spent" bit, right?

Quote:
I'm just a working American who pays his taxes on the basis of what he owes and when it's due. You're a guy who blows them off for years when it's inconvenient for you until you get caught. However you need to defend that is up to you.


But neither of us pay out of a sense of benevolence though. I mean, it's been pretty well established that all the liberals complaining that taxes aren't high enough and they are willing to pay higher taxes are unwilling to just write a check to the government for more money when given the option. So it's not like any of us pay more than we're forced to pay. What method that takes isn't really the issue. At least I'm consistent in believing that our government spends too much money on things it shouldn't and that therefore taxes are too high. Not that I'm claiming that my failure to file 10 years ago was any sort of stand against high taxes or anything, but I also don't buy the whole "You didn't file on time, and therefore paid about 8 times more taxes than you should have over the same period of time, so for some odd reason I can't really explain this means you should not complain about how that money is spent".


Bit of a stretch IMO. I don't see how one is connected to the other at all.
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#38 Jun 19 2012 at 4:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Except for the whole "why are you complaining about how your tax dollars are spent" bit, right?

You have a very generous definition of the word "grand". I'll happily admit that I'm as interested in listening to tax cheats bitch about their taxes as I am interested in listening to people with unpaid tickets bitch about how ticket revenue is spent though since you made that comparison.

Quote:
But neither of us pay out of a sense of benevolence though.

No, I pay because it's the proper thing to do. A positive side effect to this is that I don't need to write lengthy paragraphs defending why I don't bother to pay my taxes but I should still bitch about how the money is spent Smiley: thumbsup

Quote:
I also don't buy the whole...

You mean you don't accept consequences for your negligence or people's criticisms of what you did? GASP! I'll inform the media straight away! Smiley: laugh
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#39 Jun 19 2012 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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How about those immigrants not paying their @#%^ing taxes, eh? Goddamn freeloaders.
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#40 Jun 19 2012 at 4:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hey Flea... paying those quarterly taxes and all that paperwork is hard. Let's just not bother any more.
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#41 Jun 19 2012 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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You people pay taxes?!! Smiley: confused

Smiley: disappointed
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#42 Jun 19 2012 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Hey Flea... paying those quarterly taxes and all that paperwork is hard. Let's just not bother any more.


gbaji, on Feb 16 2012 wrote:
First off, let me point out that most of the people who say they'd gladly pay higher taxes if they made twice as much money are really saying they want those people who make twice as much as they do to pay higher taxes. If they were actually making that much, they wouldn't say that. They'd still say that people making twice as much of them should pay a higher tax burden though. That's the consistency here, not that people are willing to trade one for the other.
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#43 Jun 19 2012 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, yeah. By "quarterly taxes", I meant the taxes we pay on the twenty-five cents we earn per year.

Those bastards getting fifty cents a year have got it made though Smiley: mad
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#44 Jun 19 2012 at 5:52 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Quote:
But neither of us pay out of a sense of benevolence though.

No, I pay because it's the proper thing to do.


No. You pay because you are required to do so. If there was no law requiring you to pay taxes, and you were allowed to just voluntarily donate money to the federal government, how much would you pay? It's not because it's the right thing to do, or because you care. It's because it's required by law for you to do so. Hell. They even make it easy on you by simply taking the money out of your paycheck for you!

Quote:
A positive side effect to this is that I don't need to write lengthy paragraphs defending why I don't bother to pay my taxes but I should still bitch about how the money is spent


Yeah. Still stuck on the whole "not filing==not paying" thing. You get that the year I didn't file and on which I ended out about $4k short I still paid more in taxes than most people. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it was something like paying about $40k in taxes, but I should have paid $44k. I think that the other $40k that year and all the amounts I've paid before and since, which are well above the amount the bulk of US citizens pay in income taxes still grants me the full right to bitch about how my tax dollars are spent.

You get that I'm not self employed, right? Taxes were taken out of my paychecks that year. Taxes were taken out of the stock sales I did that year. They were just off by a relatively small amount. And on that small amount, I have now paid far more in penalties and interest than the amount originally owed. So I'm not sure how you get some idea that I've somehow cheated the system.

Quote:
Quote:
I also don't buy the whole...

You mean you don't accept consequences for your negligence or people's criticisms of what you did? GASP! I'll inform the media straight away! Smiley: laugh


I do accept the consequences. I paid a significant penalty as a result of my actions. In exactly the same way that if I was late paying for a library book, I'd pay the late fee. Once that is done, my "debt" is paid.


What's funny is that in this case, my debt was more than paid 15 months ago when I wrote a really large check to the government to cover an amount I knew was close to $100k larger than the amount I owed. Uncle Sam then got to hold on to that money for over a year interest free (and absent any gains I might have made with the money as well). Now I've finally got that money back. Hence my statement at the beginning of not really "winning", but at least not losing worse than I thought I should. The government got more than their fair share from me for this Joph.
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#45 Jun 19 2012 at 6:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
No. You pay because you are required to do so.

I understand that I operate under a different value system than you but, to me, paying taxes is part of "things you do as a citizen". Sure, it's the law. Obviously it being the law didn't positively influence YOU to do it so there's no ground for you on that front. I don't attempt to ignore or skirt the law because I see it as part of my obligation as a citizen just like I don't try to weasel out of jury duty because I respect the law and my obligations in that case as well. You obviously see it otherwise. Heck, most people probably do and my sense of citizenship is probably anachronistic these days. I'm okay with that.

Quote:
You get that the year I didn't file and on which I ended out about $4k short I still paid more in taxes than most people.

I'm sure this rationalization for not paying the required amount helped you sleep at night for the years where you just ignored your obligation for the skipped filing.

Quote:
The government got more than their fair share from me for this Joph.

Because you were caught.

Hey, I'm not going to stop you from bitching about taxes. I just learned that I have no reason to take you seriously about it is all.
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#46 Jun 19 2012 at 7:11 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
No. You pay because you are required to do so.

I understand that I operate under a different value system than you but, to me, paying taxes is part of "things you do as a citizen".


But you wouldn't pay them unless you were legally required to do so, right?

Quote:
Sure, it's the law. Obviously it being the law didn't positively influence YOU to do it so there's no ground for you on that front.


Of course it did. The law sets rules and consequences for breaking those rules. Guess what Joph? I often exceed the posted speed limit on the freeway. I understand that I'm running the risk of getting a speeding ticket by doing so and am fully willing to pay said fine if I get caught. Shocking isn't it?

Quote:
I don't attempt to ignore or skirt the law because I see it as part of my obligation as a citizen just like I don't try to weasel out of jury duty because I respect the law and my obligations in that case as well. You obviously see it otherwise. Heck, most people probably do and my sense of citizenship is probably anachronistic these days. I'm okay with that.


Yeah. You never speed. Never cross without the walk sign on. Never park in a loading zone "just for a few minutes". Never play your music a bit too loud. You never do any of a hundred things that might result in some fine or fee, right?

Quote:
Quote:
You get that the year I didn't file and on which I ended out about $4k short I still paid more in taxes than most people.

I'm sure this rationalization for not paying the required amount helped you sleep at night for the years where you just ignored your obligation for the skipped filing.


Um... You missed the whole paying for peace of mind bit, didn't you?

Quote:
Quote:
The government got more than their fair share from me for this Joph.

Because you were caught.


And? It's not like I went out of my way to hide or anything (you know, which might *actually* be considered fraud). There is a bit of a difference.

Quote:
Hey, I'm not going to stop you from bitching about taxes. I just learned that I have no reason to take you seriously about it is all.


OMG! Alert the media! You're trying a bit too hard there Joph. Don't get me wrong, I'm amused by your little diatribe and whatnot, but it's coming off a bit silly now. Does this really bother you? Someone not paying the full amount for something, then having to later pay penalties to square that debt? Do you run around screaming at people who carry a credit card balance too? Cause that's basically what you're doing here.
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#47 Jun 19 2012 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I know "You're just the same in your own way" is a textbook rationalization method so I don't blame you for resorting to it. If everyone is just as flawed, it's not really your failing, right?
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#48 Jun 19 2012 at 7:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Give it up Joph. Everyone knows not paying your taxes is the same as playing your music just a bit too loud.
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#49 Jun 19 2012 at 7:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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So far we have not paying your taxes to be equal to playing your music too loud, parking tickets, speeding and jaywalking!

I don't know if parking in a loading zone is actually a legal issue versus a "owner of the building having you towed" issue.
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#50 Jun 19 2012 at 7:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd be seriously pissed at myself if I'd given the government a $97K interest-free loan for all that time, personally. I don't file my taxes until April 15, because why give them a few dollars before I absolutely have to?

And I'm a freakin' liberal <insert pejorative here>.
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#51 Jun 19 2012 at 7:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
No. You pay because you are required to do so.

I understand that I operate under a different value system than you but, to me, paying taxes is part of "things you do as a citizen".

But you wouldn't pay them unless you were legally required to do so, right?


I would still pay them, even if it was a suggestion, and not a law, since I understand what they are for. I see them as paying for services that are needed for everyone. You know, Firemen, Policemen, Teachers, roads, etc. Things I like to have around, just in case I need them. Smiley: lol

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