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#152 Apr 12 2012 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:
8. If most (ie. non-late term) abortions were performed prior to any real development of cranial tissue and organ growth, would you still be against them, conceptually? I ask this, because most are performed prior to this point. Anything in the first trimester is basically just a cellular mass, 2nd has appearance of form, but still nothing really concrete, and 3rd clearly has vital working components. Based on this, would you revise your position to something more akin to putting a prohibition on abortions performed after say, somewhere in the 12-18 weeks range (Which still allows abortions in the vast majority of current cases, but would curb the abuse potential)?


Convince liberals of this though. That's the problem. Just a couple days ago:

Quote:
Today the AZ House voted to ban all abortions after 20 weeks.

Meanwhile the GOP keeps saying that women will come around once they realize this Republican "War on Women" thing is all drummed up by the media.


The reasonable compromise that you propose (actually something that acts later in pregnancy) is flatly labeled by Joph as proof of the GOP engaging in a "War on Women". At what point do we get to point out the absurdly unfair criteria which the GOP must meet in order to *not* be accused of engaging in a war on women?
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#153 Apr 12 2012 at 6:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Convince liberals of this though. That's the problem. Just a couple days ago:


Yeah, It's partially because people have been heavily sold a controversy of "No Abortions ever vs Every baby gets aborted" and partly due to zero-sum politics that this happens, The remainder is mostly media compensation structures.

To your other point, the time window wasn't the bulk of the material that he passed, so it's disingenuous to try to interpret it as such.

The bill components such as "State insurance structures (including mandated exchanges) not being allowed to cover the procedure", Solo taped medical consultations, infringements on patient-doctor confidentiality arrangements, abstinence only sex-ed, repealing the equal-pay law, and a bunch of other things included in the bills were the real components that make up the "War on Women".

24->20 Wk term limitations is just the innocuous tip of a very large iceberg of sh*tty laws.

Edited, Apr 12th 2012 8:07pm by Timelordwho
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#154 Apr 12 2012 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
At what point do we get to point out the absurdly unfair criteria which the GOP must meet in order to *not* be accused of engaging in a war on women?

Like allowing access to it as was decided in Roe vs Wade is "absurdly unfair"?

Huh. Well, good luck with the chick vote come November.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#155 Apr 12 2012 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
Kastigir wrote:
catwho wrote:
You've just described menstruation pretty accurately.

Really? A woman has to take a spatula to clean that sh*t out? Man, the textbooks have been lying to me all this time.

Sure as hell feels like it sometimes. And not just a spatula, but more like a paring knife. And the clots... don't get me started on the clots...
#156 Apr 12 2012 at 6:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guenny wrote:

Just to be clear, it's not just your stance on abortion that makes your post scream "virgin!". It's all the other stupid stuff too, like no marital benefits for anyone because single people get screwed, and the several paragraphs about how we should spend more money on outer space and airplanes that make it apparent that there is very little room left for a ****** in the wacky world of Kaolian.


1. Space is awesome, anyone who says otherwise is a dirty communist.
2. Airplanes are awesome, anyone who says otherwise is a dirty communist.
3. The point about marital benefits is in line with my previously noted stance that government should stay the **** out of meddling with things that aren't related to their core purposes,
4. See 1 and 2.

I happen to know quite a few married Aerospace Engineers who would agree with points 1 and 2. My stance on marriage benefits is probably less popular with the married folk, but I really don't give a **** if anyone agrees with it. Anyways, is this the part of the thread where you try and explain your vague and irrational point, or the part where I start with the "your mother says Hi" retorts? I forget.
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#157 Apr 12 2012 at 7:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Call him a rapist!
#158 Apr 12 2012 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
I think that most people would say you just answered your own question. The death of a fetus that would otherwise develop into a human is what's bad about it and what differentiates it from preventative methods of contraception.


You realise I'm replying to one person specifically, right? His argument is what I was addressing, not yours or any other conservative poster's.

Don't let that stop you going off an irrelevant rant, though.
#159 Apr 12 2012 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
The death of a fetus that would otherwise develop into a human is what's bad about it and what differentiates it from preventative methods of contraception.


Except that IUDs and some forms of the pill (not just the morning-after pill, the other one) don't prevent conception. They prevent the zygote from attaching to the uterus. What's the diff?
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#160 Apr 12 2012 at 8:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Call him a rapist!

Call HER a rapist!

Samira wrote:
some forms of the pill (not just the morning-after pill, the other one)

The morning-before pill? I think they just call that one "the pill" Smiley: grin
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#161 Apr 12 2012 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Call him a rapist!
Call HER a rapist Reluctant Sperm Recipient!
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#162 Apr 12 2012 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Call him a rapist!

Call HER a rapist!


Kao? Smiley: confused
#163 Apr 13 2012 at 5:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Call him a rapist!

Call HER a rapist!

Samira wrote:
some forms of the pill (not just the morning-after pill, the other one)

The morning-before pill? I think they just call that one "the pill" Smiley: grin



Yeah, yeah; but with the so-called abortion pill widely available, I thought a distinction needed to be made, particularly since some pharmacies will fill prescriptions for one but not the other.
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#164 Apr 13 2012 at 6:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#165 Apr 13 2012 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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ZIONIST
#166 Apr 13 2012 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#167 Apr 13 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
The apperent fact that you apperently feel the average couple is incapable of figuring out basic birth control practices is a rather pessimistic worldview. I don't buy the "religion prohibits contraceptives" argument because those same religions prohibit abortions too. For the rest of them, if they want to play, be prepared to pay the price or take measures to prevent it. I'm a firm believer in government funding to remove the breeding capability of anyone who requests it or for stupid people. If you are too dumb to figure out how not to make a baby while entertaining yourselves if you don't want one, you probably fall into the latter category. I definitly feel that Women (or men for that matter too) shouldn't have unprotected sex for pleasure unless they want a baby. There are many temporary and permanent options to prevent pregnancy, and the simplest ones are even free...
HINT: Contraceptives are not infallible. They are also not used perfectly.

Just looking at that link, with typical use if a couple uses condoms and the pill and has regular sex for a year there's still a 1.2% chance of pregnancy. Basically, if you think it's ok to have sex for fun then having abortion available is pretty much a must.
#168 Apr 13 2012 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
HINT: Contraceptives are not infallible.


I intend to remind my daughters they're both living proof of this. Should make for a good "my dad is way overprotective" rant around age 14 or so... Smiley: lol
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#169 Apr 13 2012 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm getting one of those "aged" photographs made. It's where they take a picture of someone, and age it x amount of years to give you an idea of what the person will look like in the future. I plan on getting it to where she looks 18, and hang it on the wall somewhere she can easily see it. At some point she's going to recognize it as herself and is going to ask about it, at which point I'm going to tell her she's a time traveler and was sent back for a second chance to save the world.
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#170 Apr 13 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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Well, that or have some sort of conception insurance.
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#171 Apr 13 2012 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
HINT: Contraceptives are not infallible.
I intend to remind my daughters they're both living proof of this. Should make for a good "my dad is way overprotective" rant around age 14 or so... Smiley: lol

Obviously not.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#172 Apr 13 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
HINT: Contraceptives are not infallible.
I intend to remind my daughters they're both living proof of this. Should make for a good "my dad is way overprotective" rant around age 14 or so... Smiley: lol

Obviously not.


"If I was overprotective you wouldn't be here!" Smiley: mad

Must remember that line... Smiley: lol
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#173 Apr 13 2012 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
Guenny wrote:

Just to be clear, it's not just your stance on abortion that makes your post scream "virgin!". It's all the other stupid stuff too, like no marital benefits for anyone because single people get screwed, and the several paragraphs about how we should spend more money on outer space and airplanes that make it apparent that there is very little room left for a ****** in the wacky world of Kaolian.


For what it's worth, I'm definitely not a virgin, and I agree with Kao on the marriage benefits thing. I think we should just abolish the state sponsored marriage and have civil unions. That way people can get the legal protections that come with "marriage" now, and we can stop this stupid debate about whether or not gay people should be able to get married. I may not be married, but I have a partner that I've been with for 4.5 years, and we will be getting married eventually. I think it's stupid to give married couples a tax break. I really don't see the point. Giving people with kids a tax break I can understand, because kids are expensive and the government has a vested interest in making sure kids turn out well for the continuation of our country.

The space and airplanes stuff I don't really care about though.
#174 Apr 13 2012 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Guenny wrote:
Just to be clear, it's not just your stance on abortion that makes your post scream "virgin!".
For what it's worth, I'm definitely not a virgin

You are until you've slept with Guenny, if ya know what I mean...
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#175 Apr 13 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
Your eye sockets are, at any rate.
#176 Apr 13 2012 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Guenny wrote:
Just to be clear, it's not just your stance on abortion that makes your post scream "virgin!".
For what it's worth, I'm definitely not a virgin

You are until you've slept with Guenny, if ya know what I mean...


I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole. Smiley: rolleyes
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