Not Rift, Dragon Age!Follow

Yeah, which was precisely what I did. Seemed like a such a good idea at the time...

Alrighty, well I may just have to give a re-go a try then, head to the mage tower straight away. Well either that or get to the capital early on so I can buy that spirit healer book sooner if I do another mage. This whole running around with a level 12(?) unspecialized mage (especially one who only grabbed healing spells later on out of necessity) as a healer thing bites.

Edited, Apr 11th 2012 2:22pm by someproteinguy

Alistair will teach Templar when his approval is high enough.
You get Reaver from Spoilerdesecrating the Urn of Sacred Ashes.
Champion is taught by Arl Eamon as a reward, if you accept, or by the secret companion, if approval is high enough.
Berserker is taught by Oghren (and I don't think approval matters), or purchased from Gorim in Denerim.

Shapeshifting is taught by Morrigan when her approval is high enough.
Spirit Healer is taught by Wynne when her approval is high enough.
Blood Mage is taught by the Desire Demon in the Fade when you enter from Redcliffe.
Arcane Warrior is taught by the spirit in the phylactery in the Brecilian Forest.

Duelist is taught by Isabela in The Pearl, if you sleep with her or beat her at cards (threesomes also valid).
Assassin is taught by Zevran if his approval is high enough.
Bard is taught by Leliana if her approval is high enough.
Ranger is purchased from Bodhann Feddic in the party camp.

[EDIT]

And @Protein, specializations are unlocked for ALL games (current and future) when you unlock them once, so you don't need to worry about grabbing Spirit Healer from Denerim if you go to the tower. "When approval is high enough" is variable, I think. IIRC, Wynne was rather forthcoming with her secrets, where it took me a lot longer to get Zevran to open up.

Edited, Apr 11th 2012 5:35pm by idiggory

Decided to Google and found out that if you save and then buy from Gorim, then reload the save, once you level next, you get Berserker for free. Was one quest completion from leveling, so didn't have to wait long.

Actually, I was wrong. Wynne won't teach you. The book is your only option.

Has she healed your spirit, Joph?

Due to EA breaking Mass Effect 3 with their latest patch, I played some DA for a bit. I'm now in the werewolves lair.

EDIT: Guess I should mention that my party consists of a Dwarven Noble Warrior, Dog, Leliana, and Morrigan. Morrigan is actually pretty badass.

Edited, Apr 11th 2012 8:25pm by Kastigir

I mean Morrigan is badass from the perspective as I've set her tactics up to be a damager. As far as her character goes, she's kind of a bitch. I will admit though that I will probably let Flemeth go because she's Captain Janeway.

I'd kill Flemeth just to end that obnoxious voice acting.

I mean, "Just to end that obnoxious voice acting, HA-HA-HA!!!"

As for Morrigan, Spoileryeah, sucks to have a bad mom and all but at the end of the day, Morrigan is evil. She tries to explain off her goal of engulfing a child's soul with that of an 'old god' by saying it's what Flemeth sent her for but that's a bullshit excuse since Morrigan believes her mother's dead anyway. Or dead enough. And it's not about doing the Wardens a solid since Morrigan would step over Alister's corpse for a stick of gum and knows that none of the Wardens except you would accept her plan knowing the full details. Morrigan is doing this act because it's what she wants and what'll bring her power. At that point, it's sort of hard to say "Poor you and your broken mirror; that must have made for some lousy Christmases."

Edited, Apr 11th 2012 9:56pm by Jophiel

Do you mean Morrigan, or Flemeth? Morrigan is certifiably Flemeth's 20something daughter, not Andraste. Flemeth, as we know, has been around for centuries, so... maybe. But her own origin story says different, as Leliana will tell you in camp if you ask.

Also, to buttress Joph's spoiler: Spoilerif you refuse to ask Alistair or... you know.... to go through with Morrigan's dark ritual, or if he refuses, Morrigan leaves you in the lurch on the eve of battle, the faithless bitCh.

I was talking about Flemeth. If you play Witch Hunt, Morrigan says that Spoilershe's more powerful than anyone had ever imagined, not an abomination, and not human. Doesn't mean she's Adraste, of course, I just think that seems fitting with the overall movement of the narrative.

Why are there so many freaking gingers?

More fun, my Human Warrior has one of the darker skin tones. She spent the first hour or two surrounded by all these pasty white people who claim they're related to her.

It's a conspiracy I tells ya.

All that "we have to find your father" nonsense she was spewing when the castle was under attack. Lies to the very end.

You didn't let her finish.

"We have to find your father...

...he was an Antivan roadie for DragönSläyer..."

huh?

Have some patience; just looking through the last few posts I see yourmomsawhore and spawning dragons. It seems to be well on its way.

Is there one where a genlock holds you down and pisses in your eye?

Because I bet that's still more entertaining than the mage circle origin story.

Agreed. Finally sticking a knife in him was probably the highlight of the game most satisfying fight. He's horrible in his own right, but that origin just compounds everything, building all this rage. So when you finally get around to fighting him, it was such sweet vengeance.

Edited, Apr 12th 2012 3:59pm by cidbahamut

Add my vote to Human noble. Made me feel like I had a much bigger personal stake in the main story. Though city elf was kinda awesome, especially as a female. The look on the guys' faces Spoilerwhen he slides that sword to you is priceless.

Has some nifty carryover into DA2, which is kinda nice. SpoilerMage Warden is Hawke's cousin.

I know it doesn't fit with the story, but I do wish that as a mage you had the option of more than one origin story. I do want to try out the other stories, and I might even make a rogue to play out the game again later on. We'll see.

I'm betting they originally planned to. But, when you think about it, it's not surprising that it got cut. Not when they can very easily craft a pro- or anti-Circle story from one Origin.

I like to think that she did, in fact, die. Spoiler But the Fade is allegedly where your spirit goes when you die (though they haven't really fleshed this out much). I like to think that the very basic structure of Flemeth's story is true, but it was neither spirits nor demons that she dealt with. Instead, she actually communed with Andraste's spirit, who bonded with her (either taking over the body completely or just fusing with her). Abominations only refer to demons, particularly when the demon is in control, so she's not that. And Andraste's soul makes her immortal.

Or something.

I'm not convinced it's true, by any means. It's more like I want it to be true, because I think it would be awesome if Templars had been trying to murder Flemeth for years, never knowing she was their prophet.

You probably shouldn't be assuming we know the truth about Andraste in the first place, though. BioWare has actually done a very good job of seeding good reason for doubt, if you look for it.

For instance, if you take Ohgren Spoilerto the urn, he'll note about how the mountain seems to be have deep-running lyrium veins, which many fans have speculated (not unjustly) that it could be meant as a significant hint that the healing power of the ashes and presence of the gatekeeper may not be as strong proof of Andraste's divinity as we might imagine. Not proof to the contrary either, but definitely food for thought.

There's also the book you can give Wynne that attempts to make a serious argument that Andraste was not a prophetess, but rather just an extremely powerful Mage. For instance, she's celebrated as gaining the attention of the Maker, who altered the weather to favor her armies. Well, Mages can already create significant storms in small spaces. There's no good reason why a powerful one (particularly if she was working with Lyrium or blood magic) or a group of mages couldn't cause the same effect. It could be that the divine aspect was a way to gain followers.

Furthermore, no Spirit has ever confessed to remembering the Maker, their creation, or the Golden City, afaik. And SpoilerCorphyreus seems to suggest that the city was black before he ever entered it. Considering they are ageless, and it hasn't actually been that long since the city was allegedly tainted, this is more than a little surprising. The wiki says that Justice Spoilerwill tell you that many demons claim the Maker never existed, that the chant of light is absurd, and that the golden city never existed. He also says that those who believe only do so because of the conception of the Maker they see in mortal dreams. It's worth remembering, imo, that the distinction between spirits and demons is way less significant than mortal minds consider it. A Rage Demon might have good reason to say such things. But a Sloth or Pride Demon? Maybe not.

And take the fact that the Fade is the land of dreams and all spirits/demons embody one human trait. It doesn't seem crazy to think that the world formed first, and that the Fade was created by subconscious effects on magic or something, creating a world that was ever shifting with dreams, and filled with creatures that were both incredibly simple and abstract.

We also now have some very solid proof that Morrigan lied about Flemeth's ritual to the Warden, or was at least deceived herself. The new comic series has introduced a new character, the Witch of the Wilds Yavana, who is one of her daughters. Yavana states that the blood of the dragons is the blood of the world or something (haven't read it, just the wiki), and that the ritual concerning her daughters is actually some kind of "gift". IDK what that's about, but it definitely adds support to the idea that Flemeth is not stealing her daughters' bodies.

As to the theory about Andraste Spoilerbeing her, Flemeth definitely seems to have a certain ability with regards to prophecy, though she's often seen arguing with herself about whether or not fate exists. In the books, she appears to Maric something like two decades (or more) before the blight begins, but tells him that it will occur, and hints that Loghain will betray him (which may or may not be being fleshed out in the comics now, because it turns out Maric is probably still alive and left Ferelden voluntarily to fulfill a promise to her). Again, not proof by any means, but there's no reason to assume it's a meaningless connection.

Of course, there's also support to the contrary, primarily Sandal's monologue about "Him coming back some day and everyone will be as they were" or something like that. Though he also often talks about a lady he sees next to his bed, which has been speculated to be Morrigan, Flemeth, Liandra, Andraste, etc.

And there are some other questions. Why are SpoilerAndraste's ashes capable of healing when chantry idols and amulets don't confer any divine protection at all? Up front that's not surprising, but it kinda is the more you think about it. Why is Morrigan, who is actually someone with a critical mind, and raised by one of the most knowledgeable of people in the world, so dead set against believing the Maker exists? Why is the basis of Leliana's faith something that conflicts so significantly with Chantry doctrine (assuming she hasn't made it up)?

I'm not really arguing for one or the other. I just think that BioWare has very intentionally been sure to add sufficient cause for doubt throughout the game, so that we shouldn't be assuming anything. Even the characters who tell you the tales often mention that they have no clue what actually happened. I'm personally inclined to believe that the truth is a middle ground.

/nerd

[EDIT]

Oh yeah, and there's the huge issue that Dwarves randomly don't find themselves included with the Chantry's story.

Oh, and checking the wiki, Ohgren actually says to Wynne and Leliana that the lyrium is affecting the temple.

I've seriously spent waaaaay too much time on that wiki.

Edited, Apr 12th 2012 11:40pm by idiggory

*Just spoilering the whole thing.

SpoilerBut the entire concept of the religion is that the Maker has turned away from the world. It never actually establishes Andraste as a figure that's intrinsically divine, all of her power comes from the fact that the Maker fell in love with her. She was supposed to just be a normal human, though, and she is never once attributed to the cause of a miracle. Why would her ashes have miraculous powers if, not once in her story, she was ever attributed to have any special traits beyond grace?

I'm also highly inclined to reject your reasoning on Morrigan for one significant reason--the Guardian of the Urn lets her pass, judging her worthy of moving forward to the next task of the Guantlet. If he felt that she was as wicked as you say, why would he make no attempt to stop her? Better yet, why would he just accept her decision not to answer any question? Even more interestingly, his question was going to be something about her mother.

Now, there is something to be said for pure gameplay mechanics demanding she be let through. But it definitely doesn't agree with the Guardian's self-avowed purpose. If he was there to judge those worthy of proceeding, and he lets Morrigan through, it has to follow that he judges her worthy of proceeding.

Also, she's critical of all religion. Qunari philosophy does not concern itself with morality at all, but she's still heavily opposed to it.

[EDIT]

There is reason to think Flemeth Spoileris an old god, too. Morrigan was taught her ritual by Flemeth, for one.

But also just some other things that seem like nothing at the time, but might actually mean something together.

SpoilerWhen Hawke asks her where she learned to become a Dragon, she rebuttles with "Perhaps I am a dragon."

Her daughter, Yavana, has a special affinity for High Dragons, and can easily calm them and communicate with them. She also lives in a sanctuary where dragons go to escape from mankind.

Would definitely make her both immortal and non-human.

Archdemons apparently cause their new body to mutate into the form of a dragon. If they can take on a Humanoid form as well, this might actually be what is happening.

It seems equally possible that she was a reincarnation of an old god, like Morrigan's son, or that she is one of the two remaining Old Gods (God of Night and God of Mystery, both of which seem fitting).

Garahel slew the Archdemon Andoral, god of slaves. Morrigan will tell a male Warden she's in a relationship that there are tales of Garahel's sexual prowess. It could be a reference to him agreeing to a ritual, since it's somewhat out of place.

Creating a child with the Old God's soul was Flemeth's intent from the start. Could be, of course, that she wanted the power. Could also be that she actually wanted to save her kin from the taint.

Edited, Apr 13th 2012 12:28am by idiggory