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#252 Mar 27 2012 at 1:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Automated reply, nice.
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#253 Mar 27 2012 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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Automated reply, nice.
But a 2.1MB reply - complete with attachments!
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#254 Mar 27 2012 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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Nothing says "I'm not going to do anything about this" quite like the implementation of an investigative task force by a subordinate.
#255 Mar 27 2012 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Kuwoobie wrote:
Belkira wrote:
I don't understand why Zimmerman followed him. I don't understand why Martin running away wasn't exactly what a Neighborhood Watch wants to happen. You scared the supposed bad guy away. Good job! I don't understand why Zimmerman says to the cop on the phone, "These punks always get away." He didn't see Martin do anything, what would he be getting away with?


I try my best to understand by looking at things through Zimmerman's perspective. Imagine being a fat 30 year old Florida man. Perhaps, as a child, you wanted to grow up and become a police officer. As an alter boy, you were molested repeatedly by groups of strange men, possibly black men. Being the loathsome worthless pile that you are, you feel the need to look down on other people in order to make yourself feel not-so-worthless. You're too stupid to be a police officer, so you become a Neighborhood Watchman for the local Homeowner Association.

Now you can treat random people like criminals and pretend to have the law in your hands!

Well, as good as it was, calling 911 and wasting the time of the police on a whim just isn't thrilling enough. You've played enough Grand Theft Auto to know how police are supposed to react to a situation. Why, look at the scrawny black kid over there...

Don't forget to hone your fighting skills on your ex-girlfriends and random police officers.
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#256 Mar 27 2012 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Why wait for an ex? Smiley: dubious
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#257 Mar 27 2012 at 6:33 PM Rating: Default
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
In the broad sense, it is not a chance encounter because Zimmerman was patrolling the neighborhood, on the lookout for anyone he considered suspicious.


As opposed to it not being a chance encounter when two people run into each other at the mailboxes for the complex? Both are heading to the same area to do the same thing. So if you meet some woman at a bar for the first time, it's not a "chance encounter" because you were both going to the same bar on purpose? That's an incredibly silly and meaningless distinction IMO.

Zimmerman did not know that Martin would be walking down that street at that time. Martin did not know that Zimmerman would be patrolling that street at that time. Therefore, their meeting was a "chance encounter". WTF?

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In the specific sense, referring to the fight, it is not a chance encounter because Zimmerman had already singled Martin out and, regardless of whether or not he began the fight, had certainly set into motion the events that would lead to one.


So? I'm honestly curious what point you think this proves? Zimmerman didn't walk out his front door that day and say to himself "I'm going to go find a black kid named Trayvon Martin, follow him, get into a fight with him, and then shoot and kill him". I guess I'm not sure why you think this is relevant. You've manipulated the meaning of "chance encounter" so much at this point, that it no longer proves any point you might make with it.

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And, again, we are saying that we don't care if Martin started the fight.


The law cares though.

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We don't care if Martin had the upper-hand in said fight when he was shot.


The law cares though.

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We don't care if Martin went for Zimmerman's gun.


And the law cares. You're demanding that we completely ignore all the factors that actually matter when determining the legitimacy of a self-defense use of a firearm and insisting that we focus on things that don't matter. The fact that Zimmerman followed Martin is neither a violation of the law, nor gives Martin justification under the law to commit violence against Zimmerman.

Do you want justice under the law? Or justice under the mob?

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Our point is that Zimmerman had presented himself as a significant threat to Martin...


No, he didn't. And no amount of you repeating this over and over makes it true. Not if "significant" means "sufficient threat to legally justify Martin taking violent action against Zimmerman". Anything less than that makes an assault by Martin an act which Zimmerman is legally justified to respond to. Even with lethal force.

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...regardless of whether or not he realized he was doing it, which voids his ability to claim self defense.


BS.

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The altercation between them, regardless of who threw the first punch, is directly related to Zimmerman's choice to follow Martin in his car, despite the request from the police that he not do that.


Wrong, wrong, and wrong. The law doesn't work this way. Zimmerman is absolutely within his right to follow Martin. Period. If Martin attacked Zimmerman purely because of that then Martin is in the wrong, and has given up the right to not get shot. Period.

You've managed to move the goalposts so far that they're nearly out of sight. Are you seriously arguing that all one needs to legally justify attacking someone else is thinking the other person is a threat, whether the other person actually is, or is even aware that what he's doing might be perceived as threatening? Do you want that to be the legal standard? Because that would justify a **** of a lot more violent acts if it were. By that same logic, Zimmerman could have shot Martin to death when he first saw him walking down the street.

Seriously. Step back and look at the legal standard you're trying to apply here.

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Had he listened to that dispatcher, Trayvon Martin would be alive today.


There's a nearly infinite number of things which, had they happened differently, would have resulted in Martin living. We can't hold someone legally responsible for any or all of them. Only those things which were in violation of the law. The first triggering act was *not* Zimmerman following Martin. The first triggering act was when a physical fight started. The "he looked at me funny, so I decked him" defense does *not* work in our legal system.


Again, what's bizarre is how selectively you're applying this. You're arguing that Zimmerman was in the wrong for merely following Martin on the grounds that he thought Martin was up to no good, but turning right around and justifying Martin assaulting Zimmerman for what is more or less the same reason. Even if we assume that both thought the other was doing something they should not have done, Zimmerman's response was legal, while Martins (assuming he initiated the fight) was not. Why defend an illegal act in response to merely thinking something about someone else, while condemning the legal act?


Rule of law should apply to everyone, not just the people we've chosen to side with.

Edited, Mar 27th 2012 5:36pm by gbaji
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#258 Mar 27 2012 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
As opposed to it not being a chance encounter when two people run into each other at the mailboxes for the complex? Both are heading to the same area to do the same thing. So if you meet some woman at a bar for the first time, it's not a "chance encounter" because you were both going to the same bar on purpose? That's an incredibly silly and meaningless distinction IMO.


Zimmerman was seeking a person, not an inanimate object. So yes, it's a very different situation.

[EDIT]

No, really, your response is idiotic. If you go to get your mail, you don't have a chance encounter with a mail box.

Edited, Mar 27th 2012 8:47pm by idiggory
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#259 Mar 27 2012 at 7:44 PM Rating: Default
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Quote:
As opposed to it not being a chance encounter when two people run into each other at the mailboxes for the complex? Both are heading to the same area to do the same thing. So if you meet some woman at a bar for the first time, it's not a "chance encounter" because you were both going to the same bar on purpose? That's an incredibly silly and meaningless distinction IMO.


Zimmerman was seeking a person, not an inanimate object. So yes, it's a very different situation.


No. He was on patrol, looking for anything which might look suspicious. Remember the 46 calls he'd made? Only 9 of those were reports of suspicious people. The rest were things like unattended children, open doors, garages, cars, etc. He was traveling down the street, not having any specific idea what he might see (if anything) that evening. The encounter with Martin was by chance. What do you think "chance encounter" means?

Quote:
No, really, your response is idiotic. If you go to get your mail, you don't have a chance encounter with a mail box.


And Zimmerman didn't have a chance encounter with his car, or the various stationary objects along his route. He absolutely had a chance encounter with Martin, in the same way that walking to the mailbox, you might have a chance encounter with another person. Zimmerman didn't set out that evening to run into Martin. He set out that evening to drive around the complex.


Frankly, I'm still not sure what you think this proves though. None of that really matters. As a resident of the complex, he has an absolute right to travel anywhere in the common areas of that complex, for any **** reason he wants. Put another way: Imagine if Martin had not been walking along that night. He wasn't even there. Did Zimmerman have a legal right to drive his car along the street? Yes. Did he have a legal right to park his car where he did? Yes. Did he have a legal right to get out of his car? Yes. Did he have a legal right to walk/run/jog along the exact route he followed on foot that night? Yes.

His right to do those things doesn't evaporate because Martin is in the same vicinity. And Martin absolutely does not gain some right to assault Zimmerman for doing any of those things. Martin also has a right to walk where he walked, and to even attempt to avoid Zimmerman if he wishes. There's nothing illegal about any of that. The illegality occurred the moment one of them physically assaulted the other. That is the point at which a fight began, which resulted in Martin straddling Zimmerman and beating him (according to every eye witness), and ultimately ended with Zimmerman fatally shooting Martin.


Those are the *only* facts that matter. How the two happened to be in proximity to each other is utterly irrelevant. You're focusing on the wrong aspects of this.
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#260 Mar 27 2012 at 8:06 PM Rating: Good
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Because what he was looking for was a person. It's not a hard concept.
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#261 Mar 27 2012 at 9:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Besides seeing him is one thing. following him when you've been told you shouldn't by the authorities is a completely different situation.
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#262 Mar 28 2012 at 1:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clKi92j6eLE

gbaji reminded me of that.
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#263 Mar 28 2012 at 2:03 AM Rating: Good
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I'll just leave this here.
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#264 Mar 28 2012 at 3:56 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Those are the *only* facts that matter. How the two happened to be in proximity to each other is utterly irrelevant. You're focusing on the wrong aspects of this.


Should focus more on the following of the kid, you know doing exactly what the police operator specifically asked him not to do. Pretty strong chance that if he had let the police do their job and come out and confront martin, he would be alive today. Instead Zimmerman shadowed him and eventually got himself into a confrontation. Sounds to me like self defence is out the window, considering the fact Zimmerman had numerous chances to completely avoid a confrontation, yet chose to pursue the matter himself.

Also if I was trying to get away with murder, Id likely happily give myself a bloody nose too, this is complete conjecture and im not saying it went down like that, but its what I would do if it would keep me out of *** rape town.

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#265 Mar 28 2012 at 5:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Love the scary-dramatic music background.
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#266 Mar 28 2012 at 6:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Besides seeing him is one thing. following him when you've been told you shouldn't by the authorities is a completely different situation.



No, you see, that's not the way Gbaji's world works.

Remember the girl in the bar? Sure it was a chance encounter, even if you went to the bar determined to find a girl to have *** with you. And if you intimidate her into having *** with you, that's just her bad luck.
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#267 Mar 28 2012 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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I can't believe this is still being debated.

If this were a face to face conversation you'd all be blue in the face repeating yourselves on the same points while gbaji tries desperately to warp reality itself to make his argument sound plausible.
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#268 Mar 28 2012 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kuwoobie wrote:
I can't believe this is still being debated.
Liar.
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#269 Mar 28 2012 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kuwoobie wrote:
I can't believe this is still being debated.

If this were a face to face conversation you'd all be blue in the face repeating yourselves on the same points while gbaji tries desperately to warp reality itself to make his argument sound plausible.

You must be new here.
#270 Mar 28 2012 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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No, if this were a face to face conversation we'd all be claiming self-defense in beating gbaji to death for trying to stupid *us* to death.
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#271 Mar 28 2012 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
No, if this were a face to face conversation we'd all be claiming self-defense in beating gbaji to death for trying to stupid *us* to death.


I'd be watching; mostly so I could sell my insider story to the tabloids.
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#272 Mar 28 2012 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd be recording it on my cell phone. Helllllll-o Youtube!
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#273 Mar 28 2012 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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I'd be taking pictures with my cell phone that I could later sell to the tabloids with my story, thus trumping SPG and causing him to become my mortal enemy.

Yike, almost typoed and called him my mortal ***** there. Thank god I caught that.
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#274 Mar 28 2012 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I'd be taking pictures with my cell phone that I could later sell to the tabloids with my story, thus trumping SPG and causing him to become my mortal enemy.


Don't worry, I'm still too busy trying to hunt down a certain bathtub full of cheetos to notice. Smiley: glare

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Yike, almost typoed and called him my mortal ***** there. Thank god I caught that.


Smiley: eek

Um, how u doin?

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#275 Mar 28 2012 at 10:11 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I'd be taking pictures with my cell phone that I could later sell to the tabloids with my story, thus trumping SPG and causing him to become my mortal enemy.


Don't worry, I'm still too busy trying to hunt down a certain bathtub full of cheetos to notice. Smiley: glare

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Yike, almost typoed and called him my mortal ***** there. Thank god I caught that.


Smiley: eek

Um, how u doin?



I'm feeling a little blocked up. Think you can help?
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That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


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#276 Mar 28 2012 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Yike, almost typoed and called him my mortal ***** there. Thank god I caught that.


Smiley: eek

Um, how u doin?



I'm feeling a little blocked up. Think you can help?


You're dehydrated, let me get you something to drink. You'll be right as rain in a couple hours, and it shouldn't leave any marks.
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