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Obama Drops NDAA Veto.Follow

#1 Dec 14 2011 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
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NYTimes link.

/sigh
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#2 Dec 14 2011 at 8:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bills like this are leading to the erosion of your liberties.
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#3 Dec 14 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bills like this are leading to the erosion of your liberties.



Well, you've mastered the obvious.

They removed some of the most egregious stuff, but I am not at all happy with the further expansion of the executive office. Why do we even have the other branches anymore? Why not just sweep majestically back to a monarchy?

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#4 Dec 14 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bills like this are leading to the erosion of your liberties.



Well, you've mastered the obvious.

They removed some of the most egregious stuff, but I am not at all happy with the further expansion of the executive office. Why do we even have the other branches anymore? Why not just sweep majestically back to a monarchy?



Cause then we'd have to find some old women to sit around and look royal.
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#5 Dec 14 2011 at 8:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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I bet we could get Oprah.
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#6 Dec 14 2011 at 8:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Why not just sweep majestically back to a monarchy?
That's how Republics work. Just look at Rome and Star Wars.
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#7 Dec 14 2011 at 8:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Or Martha Stuart.
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#8 Dec 14 2011 at 8:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Or Martha Stuart.



I see what you did there.

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#9 Dec 14 2011 at 8:55 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Samira wrote:
Why not just sweep majestically back to a monarchy?
That's how Republics work. Just look at Rome and Star Wars.

So this is how liberty dies - with thunderous applause.
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#10 Dec 14 2011 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Samira wrote:
Why not just sweep majestically back to a monarchy?
That's how Republics work. Just look at Rome and Star Wars.

So this is how liberty dies - with thunderous applause.


Why the **** were people applauding at the end of Episode III? The movie was an insult to all that was holy in this world.

And, in any case, I'm still extremely unhappy about the state of the bill. It still just tramples all over the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth amendments.
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#11 Dec 14 2011 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Why the **** were people applauding at the end of Episode III? The movie was an insult to all that was holy in this world.


For the same reason people cheered in the streets of Berlin. They got duped.
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#12 Dec 14 2011 at 9:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Anyone who speaks against our government may now be labeled a terrorist for the express purpose of indefinite detention without due process or constitutional liberty. The implications of this bill are freaking scary. I'm not sure what to make of it.
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#13 Dec 14 2011 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
Why the **** were people applauding at the end of Episode III? The movie was an insult to all that was holy in this world.


For the same reason people cheered in the streets of Berlin. They got duped.

Because the travesty of a prequel series was finally over?
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#14 Dec 14 2011 at 10:42 PM Rating: Excellent
Samira wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bills like this are leading to the erosion of your liberties.



Well, you've mastered the obvious.

They removed some of the most egregious stuff, but I am not at all happy with the further expansion of the executive office. Why do we even have the other branches anymore? Why not just sweep majestically back to a monarchy?


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#15 Dec 14 2011 at 10:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Debalic wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Samira wrote:
Why not just sweep majestically back to a monarchy?
That's how Republics work. Just look at Rome and Star Wars.

So this is how liberty dies - with thunderous applause.


rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
Why the **** were people applauding at the end of Episode III? The movie was an insult to all that was holy in this world.


For the same reason people cheered in the streets of Berlin. They got duped.


Not duped, so much as given the choice between local expedience or future intangibles, without seeing the price-tag.
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#16 Dec 14 2011 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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4 more years! 4 more years!

That'll make it 16 total, right?

Or more, if you count H.W.

Edited, Dec 14th 2011 10:58pm by Demea
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#17 Dec 15 2011 at 12:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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You Democrats don't get to complain about Bush era limitations on civil liberties anymore by the way. Sure, they sucked, but look at the recent competition...
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#18 Dec 15 2011 at 1:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly, these can just be seen as a continuation of a political process put into practice by Bush, who was doing the same thing. Except it was blatantly illegal when he did it.

Kinda useless to debate which is worse, though. They both suck and are utterly unacceptable.
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#19 Dec 15 2011 at 5:12 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Honestly, these can just be seen as a continuation of a political process put into practice by Bush, who was doing the same thing.
Sure, if you want to just give Obama a free pass for no good reason.
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#20 Dec 15 2011 at 6:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Why the **** were people applauding at the end of Episode III? The movie was an insult to all that was holy in this world.

You've never seen 4, 5, and 6 without a thick slathering of nostalgia have you?
#21 Dec 15 2011 at 7:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Why the **** were people applauding at the end of Episode III? The movie was an insult to all that was holy in this world.

You've never seen 4, 5, and 6 without a thick slathering of nostalgia have you?

No. I've never had bread without butter either and that's the way I like it!
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#22 Dec 15 2011 at 8:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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SillyXSara wrote:
Allegory wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Why the **** were people applauding at the end of Episode III? The movie was an insult to all that was holy in this world.

You've never seen 4, 5, and 6 without a thick slathering of nostalgia have you?

No. I've never had bread without butter either and that's the way I like it!

Smiley: thumbsup
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#23 Dec 15 2011 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Honestly, these can just be seen as a continuation of a political process put into practice by Bush, who was doing the same thing.
Sure, if you want to just give Obama a free pass for no good reason.


Honestly not trying to. That was why I added the thing about arguing which is work being irrelevant. Rereading it shows that it probably wasn't obvious what I meant though.

I'm absolutely disgusted with Obama over this issue. He's faaaaar from my ideal president, but I was at least hopeful that he'd be willing to take a hard stance on a bill that was so obviously a direct attack on our basic rights. But, honestly, he's exactly what a president who followed Bush would like to--adding to executive power, using the precedent of the vast power increase of the previous presidency to legitimatize it.

Most presidents from either party would have done the same thing. Doesn't make it okay, and doesn't mean I won't happily berate Obama for the choice.
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#24 Dec 15 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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#25 Dec 15 2011 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's like he's deliberately trying to not get re-elected or something.

I really see no good reason for not vetoing it, at all.
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#26 Dec 15 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
You Democrats don't get to complain about Bush era limitations on civil liberties anymore by the way. Sure, they sucked, but look at the recent competition...

You mean the defense bill written by a Republican dominated House which was only watered down what little it was because of objections from the White House?

Good point. Smiley: dubious
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#29 Dec 15 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Double post AND the wrong thread? THis is what multiple tabs gets me.

Edited, Dec 15th 2011 11:57am by idiggory

You fail at life.
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#30 Dec 15 2011 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Double post AND the wrong thread? THis is what multiple tabs gets me.

Edited, Dec 15th 2011 11:57am by idiggory

You fail at life.


I know. Smiley: frown
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#31 Dec 15 2011 at 8:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
You Democrats don't get to complain about Bush era limitations on civil liberties anymore by the way. Sure, they sucked, but look at the recent competition...

You mean the defense bill written by a Republican dominated House which was only watered down what little it was because of objections from the White House?

Good point. Smiley: dubious


Oh, so Obama DID veto it then? I must have missed that part...
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#32 Dec 16 2011 at 1:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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If he had, that still wouldn't have been the only part you missed. They don't teach civics out there in the Northwest?
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#33 Dec 16 2011 at 2:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ah, so its ok to blame Bush for everything that happened during his presidency, but Obama not using his executive power to block a modified yet still bad law he had stated he would block earlier isn't his responsabiity. Got it.
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#34 Dec 16 2011 at 2:46 AM Rating: Good
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Given that the blame was placed on Bush AND the GOP congress that wrote his rubber stamp legislation... Yeah, take a civics class.
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#35 Dec 16 2011 at 7:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Obama still should have vetoed...
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#36 Dec 16 2011 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sure, I said in the other thread that it's a legitimate complaint to say he didn't veto it.

Saying that Obama's signing of a bill he had weakened is "worse" than Bush essentially writing his own provisions for Congress to stamp out for him though is pretty asinine. If you think the bill is some horrible breach of liberty, maybe you should first heap blame on the guys who wrote it. In both circumstances, it's the same guys.
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#37 Dec 16 2011 at 9:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh I do blame the ones who wrote it. The entire point here, which you are apperently missing is the guy in the top spot is supposed to be the guy in at least some theoretical control of the government. Obama has presided over the arguably largest decline in civil liberties in United States History, or at very least second largest. The democrats also control the senate and should have been able to strip all the asenine provisions out in committe. The provision allowing the United states President to deply U.S. troops to the United States in a combat deployment stance without declaration of martial law, which survived the passage of the bill intact is a huge potentially problematic legal precident. Tell you what, I'll go take that civics class, but why don't you go take a few history lessons at the same time here...
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#38 Dec 16 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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*popcorn*

This could get good...
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#39 Dec 16 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Oh I do blame the ones who wrote it.

Really? I must have missed that while you were crying about this being worse than Bush.
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The democrats also control the senate and should have been able to strip all the asenine provisions out in committee

How, exactly, did you think the House provisions got changed?

Edited, Dec 16th 2011 9:22am by Jophiel
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#40varusword75, Posted: Dec 16 2011 at 9:26 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nat,
#41 Dec 16 2011 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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What, the part where I said that everyone involved with its passage should have been shot for treason or at least flogged? that includes the ones who wrote it. Its in the other thread.

The key word was "ALL if the asenine provisions" One out of 2 is still only 50%. thats not a passing grade.
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#42varusword75, Posted: Dec 16 2011 at 9:28 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Joph,
#43 Dec 16 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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We who? I didn't bring Bush into the thread Smiley: smile
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#44 Dec 16 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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This is why the only people worth voting for are the one's least likely to try to disarm me. Nothing else seems to matter.

(and no I'm not a gun-nut [I'm a gun-nerd])Smiley: nod
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#45 Dec 16 2011 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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the one's least likely to try to disarm me.

The one most likely to disarm me is my wife. I'd consider getting a firearm except she'd probably divorce me.
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#46 Dec 16 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
This is why the only people worth voting for are the one's least likely to try to disarm me. Nothing else seems to matter.
Listen, when you guys eventually go to war with yourselves, please make some importantr changes to your wills and leave NA to the Canadians. You know the Mexicans will just squander it.
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#47 Dec 16 2011 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
This is why the only people worth voting for are the one's least likely to try to disarm me. Nothing else seems to matter.
Listen, when you guys eventually go to war with yourselves, please make some importantr changes to your wills and leave NA to the Canadians. You know the Mexicans will just squander it.


I was thinking of giving it to the French. It's about time we started a new colonial age.

As if the US ever left it, lol.

Edited, Dec 16th 2011 10:50am by idiggory
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#48 Dec 16 2011 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll will New York to you if you sink the Frenchy parts of Canada into the ocean first.
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#49 Dec 16 2011 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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I vote the Dutch. I look forward to sailing my cargo fluyt across Lake Michigan to trade beaver pelts with the Canadians.
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#50 Dec 16 2011 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll will New York to you if you sink the Frenchy parts of Canada into the ocean first.
If you cnuts weren't around buying up the cheap energy they send down to you, we'd already have bankrupted them and forced them out. Their continued existence is NY's fault in the first place.
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#51 Dec 16 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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ITT: Ugly doesn't want a bunch of Mexicans moving in next door.
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