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96% of Florida welfare cash recipients pass drug tests.Follow

#1 Aug 27 2011 at 2:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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2% failed, 2% did not apply and pay for the drug test in order to receive benefits.

So far the costs of administering the tests are almost equal or more than the costs saved by not paying the 4% no longer receiving benefits at the moment.

some random internet page wrote:

Florida’s new drug-tests-for-welfare-applicants program just yielded its first batch of results: 98 percent passed.

Florida Gov. Rick Scott, who rode his own fortune and the tea party’s adoration to office last year, has stated publicly several times that people on welfare use drugs at a higher rate than the general population. So at Scott’s urging earlier this year, the legislature implemented a policy requiring all temporary cash assistance applicants pass a drug test before getting any help.

The Department of Children and Families says about 2 percent of applicants are failing the test; another 2 percent are not completing the application process, for reasons unspecified, according to the Tampa Tribune.

The Tampa Tribune did some simple math and found out how much the governor’s assumptions about poor people going to cost the state:

Cost of the tests averages about $30. Assuming that 1,000 to 1,500 applicants take the test every month, the state will owe about $28,800-$43,200 monthly in reimbursements to those who test drug-free.

That compares with roughly $32,200-$48,200 the state may save on one month’s worth of rejected applicants.

Net savings to the state: $3,400 to $5,000 annually on one month’s worth of rejected applicants. Over 12 months, the money saved on all rejected applicants would add up to $40,800 to $60,000 for a program that state analysts have predicted will cost $178 million this fiscal year.

***
Update on 8/26: Reader Alex M rightly points out that our original lede was at best misleading. As stated in the quote included from the Tampa Tribune, the cash assistance program costs an estimated $178 million a year. The full cost of the drug testing program has not yet been calculated, but it is likely to be higher than the meager savings of denying benefits to 2 percent of applicants who tested positive for drugs.

Update @ 6:45pm ET: Thanks to reader Vashti Brenda Fletchall for pointing out another dimension to this story. Gov. Scott held economic interests in the drug testing company that was awarded the sole contract for drug testing. In April he sold off his stock valued at $62 million in the company he founded in 2001, according to the St. Petersburg Times.
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Edited, Aug 27th 2011 4:09pm by Aripyanfar
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#2 Aug 27 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: lol

Stick that in craw, classist asshats.
#3 Aug 27 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Excellent
Why would people think that people who have no money would be able to afford drugs?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#4 Aug 27 2011 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's where the Dealin, Pimpin and Hoing comes in, homie. Mo Fo.
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#5 Aug 27 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sounds good. Now to just expand the tests and make sure anybody getting a check from the government (like the governor, congressmen, and other lawmakers) is drug free as well.
#6 Aug 27 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
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xantav wrote:
Sounds good. Now to just expand the tests and make sure anybody getting a check from the government (like the governor, congressmen, and other lawmakers) is drug free as well.


Drug test the wealthy? That'd be a violation of their rights.
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#7 Aug 27 2011 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Vestal Chamberlain Lubriderm wrote:
Why would people think that people who have no money would be able to afford drugs?

Why do you think they have no money, duh.
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#8 Aug 27 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well hell... Now what is Thiefx going to make his weekly whine post about? Way to steal his thunder.

Edited, Aug 27th 2011 6:08pm by Jophiel
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#10 Aug 28 2011 at 1:04 AM Rating: Decent
These stats fail to show how many Florida welfare recipients are baby killers.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#11 Aug 28 2011 at 1:24 AM Rating: Good
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Vestal Chamberlain Lubriderm wrote:
These stats fail to show how many Florida welfare recipients are baby killers.

Teen birth and abortion rates, 1996 
per 1000 women  
Country 	bithrte	abortn 	total 	%aborted 
Netherlands 	7.7 	3.9 	11.6 	33.6 
Spain 	        7.5 	4.9 	12.4 	39.5 
Italy 	        6.6 	6.7 	13.3 	50.4 
Greece 	        12.2 	1.3 	13.5 	9.6 
Belgium 	9.9 	5.2 	15.1 	34.4 
Germany 	13.0 	5.3 	18.3 	28.9 
Finland 	9.8 	9.6 	19.4 	49.5 
France 	        9.4 	13.2 	22.6 	58.4 
Denmark 	8.2 	15.4 	23.6 	65.3 
Sweden 	        7.7 	17.7 	25.4 	69.7 
Norway 	        13.6 	18.3 	31.9 	57.4 
Czech Republic 	20.1 	12.4 	32.5 	38.2 
Iceland 	21.5 	20.6 	42.1 	48.9 
Slovakia 	30.5 	13.1 	43.6 	30 
Australia 	20.1 	23.9 	44 	54.3 
Canada 	        22.3 	22.1 	44.4 	49.8 
Israel 	        32.0 	14.3 	46.3 	30.9 
United Kingdom 	29.6 	21.3 	50.9 	41.8 
New Zealand 	33.4 	22.5 	55.9 	40.3 
Hungary 	29.9 	30.2 	60.1 	50.2 
United States 	55.6 	30.2 	85.8 	35.2
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#12 Aug 28 2011 at 1:39 AM Rating: Good
US teens: We know how to fuck.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#13 Aug 28 2011 at 1:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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US teens: We know how to fuck without contraception.

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#14 Aug 28 2011 at 5:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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US teens: We don't know how condoms work.

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#15 Aug 28 2011 at 7:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Those liberal social policies in Sweden apparently encourage every woman to have dozens of welfare babies.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Vestal Chamberlain Lubriderm wrote:
US teens: How is babby formed? How girl get pragnent?



Edited, Aug 28th 2011 9:48am by Spoonless
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#17 Aug 28 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Those liberal social policies in Sweden apparently encourage every woman to have dozens of welfare babies.

Don't worry; God will care for the children.
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#18 Aug 28 2011 at 10:38 AM Rating: Default
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All this proves to me is that you can test clean if you know in advance when the test will be. (Oh, I'll be tested when I apply. Well, I'll go clean for a while before I apply, then.) People on welfare should have to have random drug tests, like jobs do. Fail the test or don't show up and you lose your benefits.

Oh, and before you come with all the "that's racist" or "that's classist", let me just say that I think this:

Quote:
Now to just expand the tests and make sure anybody getting a check from the government (like the governor, congressmen, and other lawmakers) is drug free as well.


Is also a plenty fine idea. Anybody paid by the government in any capacity, from the President to the Congress, down to the poorest welfare recipient, should be randomly drug tested. At least once a year. And they should foot the bill. None of this reimbursement **** sorry. $30 a year isn't that much.
#19 Aug 28 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Leaving aside some drugs take over a month to pass out of a body to pass a test... they could move to testing hair, which has a PERMANENT record of the drugs you've been taking (for the duration of the time equal to the length of the hair). And you could be shocked, shocked all over again when 96% of recipients still passed.

And what the **** happened to innocent until proven guilty? No one should be required to pay up front to test for something that if they were guilty of it they should be charged and trialed for. It's totally illogical. It's even breaking the rule that people have a right not to convict themselves. They have a right to silence, both outside of a trial and during a trial.
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#20 Aug 28 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Default
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Ok, maybe the whole "make them pay for it" was wrong. Nah, **** maybe, it is wrong. k?

I think maybe illicit drugs aren't the real problem. Here's what frustrates - the legal addictions - I see people in the "poor part of town" around here, most of whom get some type of government assistance, all the time buying beer, cigs, and lotto. Granted, none of those things are illegal and so there's no way to stop such irresponsable behavior. Still it frustrates me and countless others to know that my tax dollar is going to these people who waste their money on these addictions. If they spent that money on things they needed, they might not need as much assistance.
#21 Aug 28 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's why food stamps are such a good idea - they can't be used for cigarettes, booze or lotto. A gov't check is another matter - once you cash that in you're free to spend it as you wish, even if it's for crack.
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#22 Aug 28 2011 at 12:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I hear Labcorp is hiring Lobbyists Shador. You should apply.
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#23 Aug 28 2011 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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Food stamps (or that card thing they use now), at least, can only be used on approved items as far as I know. And I'm pretty sure housing assistance goes straight to your landlord/bank/utilities.

If they are able to buy that stuff while collecting, it's probably because they have off-the-books income. Or they are driving themselves even deeper into the hole using credit cards.
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#24 Aug 28 2011 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Food stamps (or that card thing they use now), at least, can only be used on approved items as far as I know. And I'm pretty sure housing assistance goes straight to your landlord/bank/utilities.

If they are able to buy that stuff while collecting, it's probably because they have off-the-books income. Or they are driving themselves even deeper into the hole using credit cards.
I've heard of numerous ways people use(or have used) food stamps to secure drugs and especially booze around here. Like buying things on an approved list that can be sold for cash or traded for drugs. I think I recall hearing that baby formula of all things is one of the big ones.
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#25 Aug 28 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Default
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Food stamps (or that card thing they use now), at least, can only be used on approved items as far as I know. And I'm pretty sure housing assistance goes straight to your landlord/bank/utilities.

If they are able to buy that stuff while collecting, it's probably because they have off-the-books income. Or they are driving themselves even deeper into the hole using credit cards.
I've heard of numerous ways people use(or have used) food stamps to secure drugs and especially booze around here. Like buying things on an approved list that can be sold for cash or traded for drugs. I think I recall hearing that baby formula of all things is one of the big ones.


Yep, stores around here lock baby formula up. I think it's used to cut with crack or something.
#26 Aug 28 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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#27 Aug 28 2011 at 9:11 PM Rating: Decent
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First of all you're headline is just a "little miss-leading" which I'm sure was a complete accident and certainly not the intention of the liberal web site you linked to.

It's not "96% of welfare recipients" it's 96% of NEW applicants and does not take into account the countless people already on welfare and other social programs and only those that applied in the last few weeks since the program was implemented were tested, yes it does state that eventually everyone will be tested but just in the beginning of the program it has already saved Florida tax payers money. (It's exactly one of the things Gov Rick Scott promised it would do)

And secondly, I don't agree with Rick Scott on this or any politician that wants to drug test U.S. citizens. The Government getting into the business of drug testing private citizens is IMO a very slippery slope not to mention I think unconstitutional.

Don't get me wrong I also think the government needs to get out of the welfare program also. "Social Programs" like welfare should be handled by non profit organization's and churches (with a a little and I mean little local government over-sight)at a local level which will help eliminate the huge amounts of waste and fraud that tends to happen with programs like this while individually helping people who truly do need help.


And on a personal note......

Joph said this:
Quote:
Well hell... Now what is Thiefx going to make his weekly whine post about? Way to steal his thunder.


I don't hang out in here much (I know you do and you think that's normal behavior) and I had never posted in this thread until now but I am apparently on your mind at least to the point where you sit at home thinking about me and to be honest I find that a little creepy.

So I am asking that everyone who reads this thread to please take note of this and if I ever turn up missing please give the police a starting point for whose backyard they should start looking in for my body.

Now if you will excuse me I'm gonna go make sure my doors and windows are locked.

#28 Aug 28 2011 at 9:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThiefX wrote:
I don't hang out in here much (I know you do and you think that's normal behavior) and I had never posted in this thread until now but I am apparently on your mind at least to the point where you sit at home thinking about me and to be honest I find that a little creepy.

That would cut...

If... ya know...

...You didn't take time in every third post to say "You're sucking up to Jophiel!!" Smiley: laugh

Quote:
(I know you do and you think that's normal behavior)

Joph's Law! SCORE!!!
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#29 Aug 29 2011 at 5:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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ThiefX wrote:
So I am asking that everyone who reads this thread to please take note of this and if I ever turn up missing please give the police a starting point for whose backyard they should start looking in for my body.
Joph disposes of bodies in his backyard by chopping them up with a lawn mower. Do you have any idea how much it would cost taxpayers to dig up his entire backyard? If you're already dead, let's not go and cost taxpayers more money by digging up someone's backyard just to find the pieces of your body.
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#30 Aug 29 2011 at 6:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Look for your body? That would disrupt the barbecue party we'd be having to celebrate!
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#31 Aug 29 2011 at 7:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Churches here in the south are really really good at wasting money on things like Joel Osteen's BMW
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#32 Aug 29 2011 at 8:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
All this proves to me is that you can test clean if you know in advance when the test will be. (Oh, I'll be tested when I apply. Well, I'll go clean for a while before I apply, then.) People on welfare should have to have random drug tests, like jobs do. Fail the test or don't show up and you lose your benefits.

Oh, and before you come with all the "that's racist" or "that's classist", let me just say that I think this:

Quote:
Now to just expand the tests and make sure anybody getting a check from the government (like the governor, congressmen, and other lawmakers) is drug free as well.


Is also a plenty fine idea. Anybody paid by the government in any capacity, from the President to the Congress, down to the poorest welfare recipient, should be randomly drug tested. At least once a year. And they should foot the bill. None of this reimbursement bullsh*t, sorry. $30 a year isn't that much.

Sure, and when the drug testing company rules the world, we'll start requiring tests for real drugs, you know the ones the doc subscribes to those with medical insurance.

Oh and we really need to test for transfats and preservatives. I mean why the **** should my tax dollars be going to some poor person to buy twinkies with?

We currently require drug tests for folks that work in around heavy machinery, drive big planes or otherwise have to be clear-headed. It's a public safety issue not a means of dictating lifestyle.

Jesum, try and think.

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#33 Aug 29 2011 at 8:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
Ok, maybe the whole "make them pay for it" was wrong. Nah, @#%^ maybe, it is wrong. k?

I think maybe illicit drugs aren't the real problem. Here's what frustrates - the legal addictions - I see people in the "poor part of town" around here, most of whom get some type of government assistance, all the time buying beer, cigs, and lotto. Granted, none of those things are illegal and so there's no way to stop such irresponsable behavior. Still it frustrates me and countless others to know that my tax dollar is going to these people who waste their money on these addictions. If they spent that money on things they needed, they might not need as much assistance.

You see people in a part of town that is unfamiliar to you. You call it the poor part of town, assume all the folks you see there (excluding yourself of course) are on welfare and buying unnecessary stuff with your money. And this is only the part you can see. Those same lazy slobs are probably stealing your bandwidth, playing your mmos and camping your favorite farm spot.

For the vast majority of people on TANF (welfare) it's temporary, it's necessary, and it's not a choice.
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#34 Aug 29 2011 at 8:55 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
We currently require drug tests for folks that work in around heavy machinery, drive big planes or otherwise have to be clear-headed. It's a public safety issue not a means of dictating lifestyle.

If that were the case the TSA should be putting breathalyzer locks on the **** of airliners.
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#35 Aug 29 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Food stamps (or that card thing they use now), at least, can only be used on approved items as far as I know. And I'm pretty sure housing assistance goes straight to your landlord/bank/utilities.

If they are able to buy that stuff while collecting, it's probably because they have off-the-books income. Or they are driving themselves even deeper into the hole using credit cards.
I've heard of numerous ways people use(or have used) food stamps to secure drugs and especially booze around here. Like buying things on an approved list that can be sold for cash or traded for drugs. I think I recall hearing that baby formula of all things is one of the big ones.


Yep, stores around here lock baby formula up. I think it's used to cut with crack or something.


Man, I hope you are joking.
#36 Aug 29 2011 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Guenny wrote:
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Food stamps (or that card thing they use now), at least, can only be used on approved items as far as I know. And I'm pretty sure housing assistance goes straight to your landlord/bank/utilities.

If they are able to buy that stuff while collecting, it's probably because they have off-the-books income. Or they are driving themselves even deeper into the hole using credit cards.
I've heard of numerous ways people use(or have used) food stamps to secure drugs and especially booze around here. Like buying things on an approved list that can be sold for cash or traded for drugs. I think I recall hearing that baby formula of all things is one of the big ones.


Yep, stores around here lock baby formula up. I think it's used to cut with crack or something.


Man, I hope you are joking.


Smiley: yikes

Seriously, and all this time I've just been using it to feed babies.

Smiley: disappointed
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#37 Aug 29 2011 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Elinda wrote:
We currently require drug tests for folks that work in around heavy machinery, drive big planes or otherwise have to be clear-headed. It's a public safety issue not a means of dictating lifestyle.

If that were the case the TSA should be putting breathalyzer locks on the **** of airliners.

Commercial pilots are required to be in a random drug-testing pool, as are passenger train engineers, bus drivers, ferry boat drivers, etc etc.

Lots of companies require it of anyone that operates heavy machinery.

Of course alcohol is tricky because it's legal. The Breathalyzer isn't a bad idea.

Anyone here have to pass a drug test for their job?
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#38 Aug 29 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Guenny wrote:
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Food stamps (or that card thing they use now), at least, can only be used on approved items as far as I know. And I'm pretty sure housing assistance goes straight to your landlord/bank/utilities.

If they are able to buy that stuff while collecting, it's probably because they have off-the-books income. Or they are driving themselves even deeper into the hole using credit cards.
I've heard of numerous ways people use(or have used) food stamps to secure drugs and especially booze around here. Like buying things on an approved list that can be sold for cash or traded for drugs. I think I recall hearing that baby formula of all things is one of the big ones.


Yep, stores around here lock baby formula up. I think it's used to cut with crack or something.


Man, I hope you are joking.


Smiley: yikes

Seriously, and all this time I've just been using it to feed babies.

Smiley: disappointed
You don't breast feed?
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#39 Aug 29 2011 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Guenny wrote:
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Food stamps (or that card thing they use now), at least, can only be used on approved items as far as I know. And I'm pretty sure housing assistance goes straight to your landlord/bank/utilities.

If they are able to buy that stuff while collecting, it's probably because they have off-the-books income. Or they are driving themselves even deeper into the hole using credit cards.
I've heard of numerous ways people use(or have used) food stamps to secure drugs and especially booze around here. Like buying things on an approved list that can be sold for cash or traded for drugs. I think I recall hearing that baby formula of all things is one of the big ones.


Yep, stores around here lock baby formula up. I think it's used to cut with crack or something.


Man, I hope you are joking.


Smiley: yikes

Seriously, and all this time I've just been using it to feed babies.

Smiley: disappointed
You don't breast feed?


I hear very few men do. Smiley: wink

But long story short, low breast milk runs in her family, and we have a baby who's in the 100th percentile in weight and 99th percentile in height. 'Can't keep up' doesn't do it justice... Smiley: lol
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#40 Aug 29 2011 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Elinda wrote:
We currently require drug tests for folks that work in around heavy machinery, drive big planes or otherwise have to be clear-headed. It's a public safety issue not a means of dictating lifestyle.

If that were the case the TSA should be putting breathalyzer locks on the **** of airliners.

Commercial pilots are required to be in a random drug-testing pool, as are passenger train engineers, bus drivers, ferry boat drivers, etc etc.

Lots of companies require it of anyone that operates heavy machinery.

Of course alcohol is tricky because it's legal. The Breathalyzer isn't a bad idea.

Anyone here have to pass a drug test for their job?

I've had to drug test for most jobs I've had, but just at the beginning. After getting the job I'm usually free to toke away.
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Debalic wrote:
I've had to drug test for most jobs I've had, but just at the beginning.
For some weird reason, I usually get drug tested every other month and it's called random.
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#42 Aug 29 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Only one time that I can think of was there testing during employment; when something like 80% of the company failed the owner (small local business) didn't bother trying to re-test and just gave it up.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#43 Aug 29 2011 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Is testing really common practice down there? I've never heard of it being done up here except in law enforcement. I mean, what the **** do they care what you're doing in your free time?
#44 Aug 29 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can't vouch for anybody else, but our company (composed of primarily military police) has to do about 10% of the company has to do a **** in a cup drug test every month. I get tagged into every other one because the of the stuff I say and the commanders refusal to believe I think this way when clean.

Usually just sit around drinking water for an hour and wasting time.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#45 Aug 29 2011 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
And what the @#%^ happened to innocent until proven guilty? No one should be required to pay up front to test for something that if they were guilty of it they should be charged and trialed for. It's totally illogical. It's even breaking the rule that people have a right not to convict themselves. They have a right to silence, both outside of a trial and during a trial.


Not that I don't agree that there are issues with random drug tests, it's not the same as if we were randomly testing random people within the whole population for the purpose of charging them with a crime. The idea is that you are attempting to gain something (employment, food stamps, welfare check, etc), and a condition of that is to take a drug test. You're free to not take the job, or not take the welfare check. So it's not a violation of your rights. It's a condition to get something you want.

It would be a violation of my rights for the government to force me to write scripts for 8 hours a day. However, it's completely reasonable for my employer to require me to do this as a condition for me getting a paycheck. Same deal with drug tests.
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#46 Aug 29 2011 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
This just in: gbaji is all for a 'big government' program becoming a 'bigger government' program.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#47 Aug 29 2011 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
Admiral Lubriderm wrote:
This just in: gbaji is all for a 'big government' program becoming a 'bigger government' program.
Shocking. Truly.
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gbaji wrote:
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#48 Aug 29 2011 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Admiral Lubriderm wrote:
This just in: gbaji is all for a 'big government' program becoming a 'bigger government' program.


If that's the interpretation you want to go with, knock yourself out!
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#49 Aug 29 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Excellent
Would you support drug tests for drivers licenses? Bus passes?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#50 Aug 29 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Admiral Lubriderm wrote:
Would you support drug tests for drivers licenses? Bus passes?


I think you are (once again) failing to understand the criteria I'm using here. If I am giving something to you, I have a right to set criteria for what I'm giving you. If I'm paying for you bus pass and drivers license, then I can set conditions on that. But if you're paying for them, then no.

This is completely separate from the legal angle of this (ie: driving or operating heavy equipment while intoxicated). This is about those who are paying to provide free stuff for other people deciding that they have a right to expect those they're helping to meet them halfway by *not* using illegal substances. It's another example of "If I have to spend money on X, I may as well get Y out of it". There's nothing wrong with that. Ideally, I'd prefer we spend a **** of a lot less on those kinds of services. I believe that they are more harmful in the long run than helpful. But, if we're going to spend money on them, why not place some restrictions on who gets the benefits? And honestly, in the context of helping people who can't help themselves, there's a strong argument that drug use can be a major factor in preventing them from getting out of that condition.


And that, in a nutshell, is the difference of opinion we often see between left and right. The left seems to want to just make receiving these benefits a way of life and thus sees any restrictions or conditions as a violation of the right to live one's life as one pleases. The right sees these things as temporary. We want people to make their lives better so that they don't need the government help anymore. Thus, applying pressure with regard to behaviors that statistically do affect life success would seem to be reasonable. We believe that's the best way to actually help people. Rewarding them for continuing to make the same mistakes just seems like harm to me.


Why do you hate poor people? Smiley: frown
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#51 Aug 29 2011 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
So do you want people with a drug problem to starve to death or just steal stuff until we jail them and have to feed and house them?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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