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#52 Apr 20 2011 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
When I say pinko commy
Urge to watch "Wait Til Your Father Gets Home."
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#53 Apr 20 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
bsphil,

Quote:
Of course, I'm not going to be paying extra in taxes for what I believe is a good government program, because I'm not the person suggesting that. According to the rule, if you didn't want the plan you don't have to support it, right? lol


When I say pinko commy it's phrases like this that validate that statement. It doesn't f*cking matter if a plan is good or bad for the people only if it's constitutional. Violating anothers right to own property because you like the plan infuriates people that actually work hard for obtaining the things they want/desire. You're denying a persons right to pursue happiness based on nothing more than your personal social whims on what you believe is good for most of the people.

If most of the people refuse to work do they still "deserve" public assistance? H*ll we already have half the population not paying federal income taxes (and don't kid yourself most of them are liberal democrats).




Edited, Apr 20th 2011 10:43am by varusword75


Come on, you can't make statements like that and not back them up.

Example: no conservative has ever paid taxes.

See? I can say it, but it isn't true. Please give your sources when you make statements like that.
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#54 Apr 20 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
bsphil,

Quote:
Of course, I'm not going to be paying extra in taxes for what I believe is a good government program, because I'm not the person suggesting that. According to the rule, if you didn't want the plan you don't have to support it, right? lol


When I say pinko commy it's phrases like this that validate that statement. It doesn't f*cking matter if a plan is good or bad for the people only if it's constitutional. Violating anothers right to own property because you like the plan infuriates people that actually work hard for obtaining the things they want/desire. You're denying a persons right to pursue happiness based on nothing more than your personal social whims on what you believe is good for most of the people.


Oh please, don't start acting like you care about the constitution now. Smiley: rolleyes
Quote:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

Bam, done.

Edited, Apr 20th 2011 10:54am by LockeColeMA
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#55 Apr 20 2011 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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varusword75 wrote:
bsphil,

Quote:
Of course, I'm not going to be paying extra in taxes for what I believe is a good government program, because I'm not the person suggesting that. According to the rule, if you didn't want the plan you don't have to support it, right? lol


When I say pinko commy it's phrases like this that validate that statement. It doesn't f*cking matter if a plan is good or bad for the people only if it's constitutional. Violating anothers right to own property because you like the plan infuriates people that actually work hard for obtaining the things they want/desire. You're denying a persons right to pursue happiness based on nothing more than your personal social whims on what you believe is good for most of the people.

If most of the people refuse to work do they still "deserve" public assistance? H*ll we already have half the population not paying federal income taxes (and don't kid yourself most of them are liberal democrats).
If you want to ***** and moan about elected federal officials breaking the rules, talk to the GOP.
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#56 Apr 20 2011 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Belkira wrote:
TirithRR the Eccentric wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Fox News, conservative company, paid only 6% in taxes.
Disney, liberal company, paid 31% in taxes.

Conservatives pay more? No, they pay as little as possible.


Wait... Disney is liberal?


They employ *** people and had a "*** day" (or something) at the park. The Southern Baptists have been boycotting them ever since.

They also show women as a strong character in their princess movies more and more.

They also released Wall-E which was a pro-environmentalist movement type movie.
They also banned a woman from wearing a burka while on the job. Just saying that everything isn't so cut and dry.


I have no idea if they're liberal or not, I was just throwing some stuff out there as to why someone might suggest they are.
#57 Apr 20 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Belkira wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Belkira wrote:
TirithRR the Eccentric wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Fox News, conservative company, paid only 6% in taxes.
Disney, liberal company, paid 31% in taxes.

Conservatives pay more? No, they pay as little as possible.


Wait... Disney is liberal?


They employ *** people and had a "*** day" (or something) at the park. The Southern Baptists have been boycotting them ever since.

They also show women as a strong character in their princess movies more and more.

They also released Wall-E which was a pro-environmentalist movement type movie.
They also banned a woman from wearing a burka while on the job. Just saying that everything isn't so cut and dry.
I have no idea if they're liberal or not, I was just throwing some stuff out there as to why someone might suggest they are.
I don't really care whether they are or not, anyway.
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#58 Apr 20 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
I don't really care whether they are or not, anyway.


Well, then.
#59 Apr 20 2011 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Quote:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States
Bam, done.

The General Welfare Clause is what makes those little "Have to provide Constitutional justification!" rules symbolic at best. Everything just winds up with the clause tacked on to the bottom.
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#60 Apr 20 2011 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
bsphil,

Quote:
Of course, I'm not going to be paying extra in taxes for what I believe is a good government program, because I'm not the person suggesting that. According to the rule, if you didn't want the plan you don't have to support it, right? lol


When I say pinko commy it's phrases like this that validate that statement. It doesn't f*cking matter if a plan is good or bad for the people only if it's constitutional. Violating anothers right to own property because you like the plan infuriates people that actually work hard for obtaining the things they want/desire. You're denying a persons right to pursue happiness based on nothing more than your personal social whims on what you believe is good for most of the people.

If most of the people refuse to work do they still "deserve" public assistance? H*ll we already have half the population not paying federal income taxes (and don't kid yourself most of them are liberal democrats).
If you want to ***** and moan about elected federal officials breaking the rules, talk to the GOP.


Good God, this video is making me ****** at some folks. Weiner is freaking awesome. I can see why he ticks off a lot of people - he's pedantic as all ****. But dammit, he's also right, and he's actually putting up a fight.
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#61 Apr 20 2011 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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LockeColeMA wrote:
...he's pedantic as all ****. But dammit, he's also right, and he's actually putting up a fight.
That's kinda his thing. More power to him to do it though.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#62varusword75, Posted: Apr 20 2011 at 11:41 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
#63 Apr 20 2011 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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varusword75 wrote:
Pinko commy.
Not enough meaningless, uninformed, inflammatory, conservative buzz words. You must be missing Rush lately or something, you're slacking.
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Almalieque wrote:
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I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#64 Apr 20 2011 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Locked,

Quote:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States


So in your opinion this allows the govn to pretty much take whatever it likes from it's citizens whenever and however it wants?

Pinko commy.


if he was really a commy, you wouldn't be posting here.
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#65 Apr 20 2011 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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You're denying a persons right to pursue happiness based on nothing more than your personal social whims on what you believe is good for most of the people.


Ya well you are denying a persons right to pursue happiness based on the conservative notion that people only find happiness in personal success. News flash some people find happiness in the success and well being of others. You commie ******* denying people the right to have others feel happy when others are being helped.
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#66 Apr 20 2011 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Belkira wrote:
TirithRR the Eccentric wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Fox News, conservative company, paid only 6% in taxes.
Disney, liberal company, paid 31% in taxes.

Conservatives pay more? No, they pay as little as possible.


Wait... Disney is liberal?


They employ *** people and had a "*** day" (or something) at the park. The Southern Baptists have been boycotting them ever since.

They also show women as a strong character in their princess movies more and more.

They also released Wall-E which was a pro-environmentalist movement type movie.
They also banned a woman from wearing a burka while on the job. Just saying that everything isn't so cut and dry.

The headscarf is most certainly not a burqa, fyi.
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#67varusword75, Posted: Apr 20 2011 at 12:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) r2d2,
#68 Apr 20 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
r2d2,

Quote:
you are denying a persons right to pursue happiness based on the conservative notion that people only find happiness in personal success.


wow! So by seeking personal success i'm denying another persons right to pursue happiness. Yep you definitly voted for Obama.

That's not what he said, but don't worry, even had you deciphered it correctly, it still wouldn't have made much sense.
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#69 Apr 20 2011 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
Pinko commy.
Not enough meaningless, uninformed, inflammatory, conservative buzz words. You must be missing Rush lately or something, you're slacking.
I think he's shut into 1972.
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#70 Apr 20 2011 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
You're denying a persons right to pursue happiness based on nothing more than your personal social whims on what you believe is good for most of the people.


Ya well you are denying a persons right to pursue happiness based on the conservative notion that people only find happiness in personal success. News flash some people find happiness in the success and well being of others. You commie ******* denying people the right to have others feel happy when others are being helped.


No, no, no. We are the commies, they are *****.
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#71 Apr 20 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Sweetums wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Belkira wrote:
TirithRR the Eccentric wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Fox News, conservative company, paid only 6% in taxes.
Disney, liberal company, paid 31% in taxes.

Conservatives pay more? No, they pay as little as possible.


Wait... Disney is liberal?


They employ *** people and had a "*** day" (or something) at the park. The Southern Baptists have been boycotting them ever since.

They also show women as a strong character in their princess movies more and more.

They also released Wall-E which was a pro-environmentalist movement type movie.
They also banned a woman from wearing a burka while on the job. Just saying that everything isn't so cut and dry.
The headscarf is most certainly not a burqa, fyi.
My bad, don't know much about the variations of Islamic clothing.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#72 Apr 20 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Dear Varus:

Wikipedia wrote:
Enlightened self-interest is a philosophy in ethics which states that persons who act to further the interests of others (or the interests of the group or groups to which they belong), ultimately serve their own self-interest.[1][2][3]

It has often been simply expressed by the belief that an individual, group, or even a commercial entity will "do well by doing good".[4][5]


EG, you get a better chance at pursuing your own happiness when you live in a highly civil society where police, defence, education, healthcare and a welfare safety net for those who have fallen on hard times* is provided and paid for by taxes.

*So that in the absence of an employer who wants them or a physical ability to work at all, they do not have to turn to crime or prostitution
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#73 Apr 20 2011 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
My bad, don't know much about the variations of Islamic clothing.


Screenshot

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#74varusword75, Posted: Apr 20 2011 at 2:23 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Aripya,
#75 Apr 20 2011 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Locked,

Quote:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States


So in your opinion this allows the govn to pretty much take whatever it likes from it's citizens whenever and however it wants?

Pinko commy.


No, it's my opinion that you can't pick and choose what part of the Constitution to follow and claim it as your basis for an argument. Which is what you did. Heck, you yourself just said:
Quote:
It doesn't f*cking matter if a plan is good or bad for the people only if it's constitutional.

Smiley: rolleyes
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#76 Apr 20 2011 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Paula,

Quote:
That would have worked better if Obama wasn't so obviously following on from exactly where Dubya left off....


This is where liberalism fails. All wars are not the same. Lybia and Iraq are different.



Its true! You took 8 years to learn how to spell Iraq!

War. Teaching geography to Americans for 200 years....

Or did you mean '*****'. In which case..well spotted Sir!
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#77 Apr 20 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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varusword75 wrote:
And what about the mass of people who simply don't want to work?
Hey, like my ex-girlfriend that I met in Madison, WI?

Guess what her political views are? Spoiler alert: Strongly conservative



Or like my aunt that never went to college and was never employed a single day in her entire life?

Guess what her political views are? Spoiler alert: Strongly conservative



Contrast that against my mother, first person in her family to go to college, got an MBA while working as a physical therapist through night classes, and eventually co-founded her own small business.

Oh man, just guess what her political views are! Spoiler alert: Strongly liberal



Edited, Apr 20th 2011 3:34pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#78 Apr 20 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shayla girl looks haughty & high maintenance and Hijab looks like she's plotting something. Probably terrorism.
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#79 Apr 20 2011 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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That's what you get when you model your entire civilization to making women look like ninjas.
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#80 Apr 20 2011 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Shayla girl looks haughty & high maintenance

You wouldn't have a chance anyway, she seems to be eying that Al-Amira gal.
#81 Apr 21 2011 at 12:53 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Quote:
What about people that increase spending to wage war? Shouldn't they pay even more still?


Should they? National defense is at least on the list of things that governments "must do".
Except for that whole "must do" part of the war in Iraq.


Congress voted to go to war in Iraq. All of congress. Unlike most of the spending done in the last couple years by the Democrats, the war was bi-partisan. So even accepting your premise (which I don't particularly agree with), your argument still doesn't hold up.

Quote:
Hey, so it sounds like under your plan, only conservatives get to foot the bill for Medicare Part D, right? Great, I'll expect you to be donating extra tax payments to the IRS for the 2011 tax season.


I already said that forcing people to pay more taxes for what they support is dumb and I don't agree with it. The point is that we shouldn't be funding those sorts of things in the first place. And let me remind you again that Medicare is paid out of a different set of taxes. You're essentially arguing apples and oranges and avoiding the larger point. People pay into medicare. Like it or not, there is a set amount of taxes that go into paying for it and only it. All the GOP did was change *how* prescriptions are paid for.

That's not remotely the same as eternally adding yet more social spending programs that the Dems think are absolutely essential and then demanding that everyone else pay for it. As I said, if you want to fund charity, there is nothing stopping you. You don't need the government to do it for you.

Quote:
Of course, I'm not going to be paying extra in taxes for what I believe is a good government program, because I'm not the person suggesting that. According to the rule, if you didn't want the plan you don't have to support it, right? lol


No. The "rule" doesn't work. That's the point. I've explained this to you several times now. No one seriously thinks we should tax people at different rates based on what government programs they support. That would be ridiculous. The point of the exercise is to get you to grasp the concept that perhaps we shouldn't be doing this kind of thing with tax dollars at all. Anything that clearly falls into the realm of "charity" should be left up to private citizens to fund themselves. We should only do with government money, that which only government can do. And while many people don't like this, defense falls into that category. As does foreign and interstate trade regulation, foreign affairs, intelligence, administration, standards, etc.

Providing checks for people who don't have jobs *isn't* part of that list of things that only government can do. How many times do I have to explain this?

Quote:
Oh wait, does this mean a massive tax break for *** people that can't get married but have to subsidize the benefits of straight, married couples?


Again. My argument is that we shouldn't be funding these things in the first place. The solution isn't to modify tax rates based on what any given individual likes, but to eliminate spending for all those things government doesn't have to be doing. And yes, for the record, the second we agree to eliminate all welfare, income assistance, environmental subsidies, and the zillion other things we spend money on, I'd be more than happy to toss marriage benefits into the pot as well.


Of course, you realize that the only things that marriage gets you at the federal level is questionable taxes (usually higher btw), some social security, pension, and military survivor benefits, right? I mean, you're basically trading away the store for some pocket change here, but be my guest.
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#82 Apr 21 2011 at 12:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
Quote:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States
Bam, done.

The General Welfare Clause is what makes those little "Have to provide Constitutional justification!" rules symbolic at best. Everything just winds up with the clause tacked on to the bottom.


You are aware that when they wrote "general welfare" in the constitution, they didn't actually have "welfare" as we know it today in mind, right? I mean, that's just a name we created a hundred and fifty someodd years later to describe something which the founders absolutely never intended for the federal government to be involved in. They meant things like dealing with natural disasters, disease outbreaks, and trade regulations. They certainly did not intended that line to be interpreted to mean that the federal government should be in the charity business.
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#83 Apr 21 2011 at 3:30 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
They certainly did not intended that line to be interpreted to mean that the federal government should be in the charity business.
They also didn't intend for the right to bear arms to include ownership of semi-automatic weapons. Too bad they weren't more specific on things, eh?
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#84 Apr 21 2011 at 5:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
You are aware that when they wrote "general welfare" in the constitution...

...You are aware that no one gives a fuck about your little "You are aware.." lectures, right? Regardless of whatever, it's still the catch-all phrase that gets appended whenever they need to tack on a Constitutional authority, thus making rules requiring Constitutional justification symbolic at best.
PolitiFact wrote:
"Frankly, this is just symbolic, so I have no real feelings one way or the other," said Norman Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. "Of course, you could offer a bill that repeals the Internal Revenue Code, or Medicare, by claiming it is unconstitutional as your basis, and be utterly wrong. But what difference does it really make? You can also justify almost any bill you want by claiming a broad constitutional authority under the health and welfare clause or the commerce clause. So I see the disagreements here as being just as symbolic as the promise in the first place."


Edited, Apr 21st 2011 7:01am by Jophiel
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#85 Apr 21 2011 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
You are aware that when they wrote "general welfare" in the constitution,
That'd be a more compelling start of an argument if the constitution wasn't intended to be a living, changing document.
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#86 Apr 21 2011 at 6:43 AM Rating: Good
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What is the republican plan for dealing with all of the people who depend on these programs? I'm not talking about the abusers of the programs, just the legit users. Just f*ck them?

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#87varusword75, Posted: Apr 21 2011 at 8:19 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
#88 Apr 21 2011 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Why not? You, and every other liberal politician and religion, does it every single chance you get.
I'd say "let's be honest," but that isn't exactly a strong point to either organization, either.
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#89varusword75, Posted: Apr 21 2011 at 8:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) bsphil,
#90 Apr 21 2011 at 8:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Anytime you want to push through legislation that's unconstitutional you simply bring up the general welfare welfare clause justify stealing whatever money you want to support whatever social program you want.

NJ Rep. Garrett wanted stricter rules that prohibited the general use of the welfare clause or commerce clause as "constitutional authority" without a floor debate on whether the bill qualified under those terms.

The GOP had no interest in pursuing his rules. You might want to ask yourself why that is.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#91varusword75, Posted: Apr 21 2011 at 8:42 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#92 Apr 21 2011 at 8:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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You make the GOP sound like Dr. Claw.
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#93 Apr 21 2011 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
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Varus,

Why don't they get SS? Did they not pay into it? It just seems weird to pay into it and not collect it. I'm just curious, not a confrontation.

I'm also curious as to what you have against unemployment...don't get me wrong, I know that it is an abused system where people are on it and not really looking for a job, but you wouldn't apply for it if you were laid off through no fault of your own?

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#94 Apr 21 2011 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
...you wouldn't apply for it if you were laid off through no fault of your own?


He'd just bed some gullible broad, then just coast off her until an offer came along, of course. Smiley: nod
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#95 Apr 21 2011 at 8:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
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No, it's my opinion that you can't pick and choose what part of the Constitution to follow and claim it as your basis for an argument


Why not?


Because it's not the Bible, duder. Our laws are based on the Constitution - you can't disregard the parts that don't support your argument.

Also, are you implying it's fine to ignore the Constitution "because liberals do it"? I thought you were against doing so (as you're certainly trying to claim moral high-ground here), but apparently you're fine with it... yet another reason you can't use that point as your basis for arguing, as you yourself don't believe in following the Constitution.
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#96 Apr 21 2011 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
The GOP is about to hand the Dems another beat down later this year and next. Why would they want to limit their power?

Well, at least you admit that Republicans have no interest in Constitutional authority.
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#97varusword75, Posted: Apr 21 2011 at 9:45 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
#98 Apr 21 2011 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
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Our laws are based on the Constitution


No they aren't. Obamacare is not based on the constitution. Welfare isn't based on the constitution. These enormous social programs fell under the catch all "general welfare clause" which basically means whoevers in power can do whatever the h*ll they want so long as they say it's for the "general welfare".

Hey, look, the Constitution. If the SCotUS says it's fine, then that's the official interpretation of the Constitution (yay judicial review, yay US v. Butler (1936)). How about that! Smiley: rolleyes Didn't Joph already explain this, literally less than a page ago?
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Also, are you implying it's fine to ignore the Constitution "because liberals do it"?


That's exactly what i'm saying.
See, why would you bother pretending you care about the Constitution then? You just admitted that you're fine with ignoring it.

Edited, Apr 21st 2011 11:53am by LockeColeMA
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#99varusword75, Posted: Apr 21 2011 at 10:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
#100 Apr 21 2011 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
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See, why would you bother pretending you care about the Constitution then?


Why do you?

It's the basis of our laws, and I consider myself an educated American. Your turn!
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#101varusword75, Posted: Apr 21 2011 at 11:43 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
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