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A firearm question for you LeftiesFollow

#727 Feb 08 2013 at 8:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, no. Did you expect me to write legislation for you or something? Am I supposed to cling to some gossamer hope that I'll write the perfect response and have you say "You're right! Those restrictions would make a difference!"

C'mon, man. Be a little serious. There's gotta be a carrot here if you want me to move forward with your posts Smiley: laugh

I'd probably start by looking at the laws in all those nations that don't count are. Maybe I'd look at their social welfare systems and educational systems as well as long as I was on their websites.
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#728 Feb 08 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Obama's old GOP opponent for the IL senate seat wants you to know that Obama's plan regarding gun control is to eliminate some 90% of the global population.



(1) Take away the guns
(2) Cull the masses until there's only hundreds of millions of people left on the planet
(3) ???
(4) Obama = Mad Max Overlord
(5) Profit!


Edited, Feb 8th 2013 8:11pm by Jophiel
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#729 Feb 08 2013 at 8:18 PM Rating: Default
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So you support a policy of increased restrictions on gun ownership, even though you can't yourself think of any such restrictions (absent bans in violation of the 2nd amendment) which would actually help with regard to these sorts of shootings. How do you reconcile that with your previously stated position that you don't support violating/infringing/removing/whatever the 2nd amendment? I mean, that's like insisting that you don't want to hit your friend in the face with a baseball bat, but then also insisting on swinging it directly at his face with no idea how you'll stop from hitting him. And when your friend points this out you just say "Hah! That's crazy! I have no intention of hitting you with this bat. Now stand still...".


And you wonder why folks on the right don't believe the whole "we have no intention of attacking your 2nd amendment rights" line? Cause that would seem a legitimate concern when you can't yourself explain how what you're trying to do will accomplish what you want it to accomplish without doing just that.

Edited, Feb 8th 2013 6:19pm by gbaji
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#730 Feb 08 2013 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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#731 Feb 08 2013 at 8:57 PM Rating: Default
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So still no answer to my question? No one has any clue what kind of restrictions we could place on gun ownership in the US that would not violate the 2nd amendment, but which would be effective at preventing these kinds of shootings. But somehow I'm wrong to point out that if you can't do this, perhaps you shouldn't argue that "restricting gun ownership" is the solution. Strange. Very very strange.
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#732 Feb 08 2013 at 9:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
So still no answer to my question? No one has any clue what kind of restrictions we could place on gun ownership in the US that would not violate the 2nd amendment, but which would be effective at preventing these kinds of shootings. But somehow I'm wrong to point out that if you can't do this, perhaps you shouldn't argue that "restricting gun ownership" is the solution. Strange. Very very strange.
There is no way - at all - ever to "prevent" this kind of shooting. Ever. We may find a way to dimish the frequency of occurences, but not eliminate them. Try to rewrite you argument without that proviso.
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#733 Feb 08 2013 at 9:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nowhere in the second amendment does it say you have the right to bear any 700 rpm arm you can get your hands on, so banning anything short of a musket still wouldn't really be a violation. More interesting is if you consider that we don't let Shmucky the Janitor go squirrel hunting with an M2 that we're already violating the amendment anyway and completely okay with it. I'm absolutely against banning of weapons (I'd love to go squirrel hunting with a ma duece), but crying "second amendment violation!" is so stupid.

I know you're pretending that no one has given suggestions, but I've already pointed out I'm all for a national database and better tracking of guns for better background checks, more than an 8 hour class for ownership that we currently have (I'm a huge believer in mandatory training), limited magazine sizes, and I'll add now, since I actually looked it up for a bunch of states, but the requirement of 18 month residency prior to obtaining the initial permit, a requirement of going through complete renewal processes if you move to a different state (which means no 18 month wait, but full background check etc etc) and associated fees (don't care if you still have a year on your previous permit, this way the owner and weapon's location is better tracked), no "our state permit means it's good in 38 states!" and no non-residency permits bullshit, but a stipulation specifically for people who travel interstate and can prove the need, and a severe fine and charges (depending on the crime) for losing and not reporting a lost or stolen weapon. Something like criminally negligent manslaughter. Kid stole your weapon and went on a spree? Fuck you, you go to jail too.

Not perfect, but better than both the "no guns!" and "more guns!" arguments gbaji seems to be having with himself.

Edited, Feb 8th 2013 10:33pm by lolgaxe
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#734 Feb 08 2013 at 9:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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#735 Feb 08 2013 at 11:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
So still no answer to my question? No one has any clue what kind of restrictions we could place on gun ownership in the US that would not violate the 2nd amendment, but which would be effective at preventing these kinds of shootings.


We don't usually let a convicted felon own guns. You demonstrate you can't trusted with one, you don't get one. People don't seem to mind that so much. So there's certainly some precedent for restricting gun rights.
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#736 Feb 09 2013 at 7:11 AM Rating: Default
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I'll think of a plan. However, my prediction is that you will not meet me half-way, but either spend time arguing how it's too much, wont work or just ignore it all together.
#737 Feb 09 2013 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
If she hadn't left it in the fridge next to the sandwiches her son couldn't have used it to murder almost thirty people, either.


Further evidence that maybe the population at large just isn't responsible enough for this kind of firepower.

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I was specifically thinking of the AR-15 semi-automatic rifle that was used in Newtown


Smiley: banghead

Possession and use are separate @#%^ing things.


Not really sure what you are trying to say. The conversation around the country is about what firearms are reasonable for the average citizen to own. That rifle is currently one of them, and if it hadn't been, it's doubtful that Nancy Lanza would have had it since she did have all her firearms registered properly. If she hadn't possessed it, her son couldn't have used it to murder almost thirty people.


I assumed BD was talking about the controversy over whether the Newtown whack job actully used that particular rifle or if it was just in the trunk of the car. I have heard conflicting stories and I am not sure what the final consensus was. Some have said there were two rifles, and the one in the car was a spare.


This, but more so, the official police report stated that only the two pistols were fired at the school. I heard conflicting reports about which weapon was used to kill his mother, but the evidence released makes it pretty clear that the rifle remained in the car during the school assault. People like to keep throwing it out there because it makes the story more sensational, but it's blatantly false information.




Blatantly false? Well, when confronted with conflicting news sources, one can always turn to the actual police report for the facts.

Conneticut Cops say...

He used the AR-15 and fired about 150 rounds. Do you, and be very careful here, seriously think that a twenty year old kid with two handguns could rack up almost thirty kill shots among a panicking public? The closest that guy got to firearms training was Call of Duty on his xbox. Generally I like your posting style and your "shut the **** up, stupid" responses, but you have no idea what the **** you are talking about here. They pulled a 12 gauge out of his trunk.
#738 Feb 09 2013 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
So still no answer to my question? No one has any clue what kind of restrictions we could place on gun ownership in the US that would not violate the 2nd amendment, but which would be effective at preventing these kinds of shootings. But somehow I'm wrong to point out that if you can't do this, perhaps you shouldn't argue that "restricting gun ownership" is the solution. Strange. Very very strange.

Sure, how about only people who belong to a "well regulated militia" get to own guns.
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#739 Feb 09 2013 at 8:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Can I just mention that it tickles me to be gone doing other stuff and return to a string of Gbaji saying "No answer, huh? HUH?" Smiley: laugh

Makes me imagine him just sitting there all night, shouting at a blank screen.

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Sure, how about only people who belong to a "well regulated militia" get to own guns.

Personally, I think we need a re-interpreting of the 2nd Amendment. Someone go place some banana peels on the Supreme Court steps...
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#740 Feb 09 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Default
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So what makes the average untrained citizen so special when these guys who are required to take all the gun training in the book get it wrong.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130209,0,7478164,full.story
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#741 Feb 09 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Moxie!
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#742 Feb 09 2013 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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oh son of a ***** that story is in its own damn thread.
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#743 Feb 09 2013 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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There is a certain mind set which holds fervently to the belief that if you can't solve all problems, you shouldn't spend effort and resources solving any.


Solving problems is a slippery slope.
#744 Feb 09 2013 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
So still no answer to my question? No one has any clue what kind of restrictions we could place on gun ownership in the US that would not violate the 2nd amendment, but which would be effective at preventing these kinds of shootings. But somehow I'm wrong to point out that if you can't do this, perhaps you shouldn't argue that "restricting gun ownership" is the solution. Strange. Very very strange.


Steps:

1. Acknowledge that we (the US) have a "gun problem". Yes, there are other factors involved, but those factors don't take away from the actual gun problem. Yes, gun control affects "law abiding citizens" unfairly, but so do every other law created. Furthermore, every criminal was once a "law abiding citizen" and legally purchasing a firearm doesn't make you a "law abiding citizen". It means that you legally purchased a weapon, just how a thief legally purchased gas to fuel his car. Therefore, the term and concept takes away from the problem.

2. Determine what types of firearms should be accessible to the general public. This needs to be generalized across the nation. Allow states to add to, but not allow to take away. Realize that the average person does not need access to weapons with large magazines, certain automatic settings, etc.

3. Ban the production, buying, trading, selling, importing, etc. of the aforesaid weapons.

4. Implement a national background check to include factors such as people living in the same house.

5. Standardized national necessary gun training for purchase. States can add to, but can not take away.

6. Out of state purchases will be treated by the laws of the sellers home of record listed in the database and proven by the seller at purchase.

7. Implement new and enforce current auditing for gun vendors to include a database correlating with the national background check.

8. Implement and conduct an UNANNOUNCED Don't Ask Don't Tell gun buy back program at a later date. Add benefits like a tax write offs to people to return guns that were banned.

9. Any possession of illegal weapons will result in "harsh" punishment. For example 5+ years in prison based on the weapon. This excludes weapons in the buy back program but includes vendors caught in buying/selling illegal weapons through audits.

10. Implement strict "gun-free" zones in high crime areas which include rent-a-cops (job creation Hooah!) and metal detectors. Implement "show me your papers" metal detector searches during certain hours and certain places (i.e. 2200-0500 at the park, car-wash) with stated signs.
#745 Feb 09 2013 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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10. Implement strict "gun-free" zones in high crime areas which include rent-a-cops (job creation Hooah!) and metal detectors. Implement "show me your papers" metal detector searches during certain hours and certain places (i.e. 2200-0500 at the park, car-wash) with stated signs.


This one, I don't know...

It might be easier to just sew color coded symbols on peoples clothing. Smiley: lol
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#746 Feb 09 2013 at 5:21 PM Rating: Default
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Yea, I can see that going horribly wrong and thought twice about putting that in there. However, to be fair, there have to be laws "attacking" intentional law-breakers. I figure if there are posted "gun-free zones", which are strategically placed in high crime areas, I think it's fair to question people on the side of the corner in a high crime area at 0300 hrs.
#747 Feb 09 2013 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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#748 Feb 09 2013 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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In before "he was saying that cause of the AK-47 being a Russian made weapon".
#749 Feb 09 2013 at 11:13 PM Rating: Good
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Red Sox: Prospect accidentally shot himself in leg
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FORT MYERS, Fla. (AP) -- Boston Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington says outfield prospect Bryce Brentz accidentally shot himself in the leg last month, but could recover in time to play in spring training.

Cherington said Saturday that Brentz was cleaning the gun went it went off. The bullet passed through Brentz's left leg.
#750 Feb 09 2013 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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Red Sox: Prospect accidentally shot himself in leg
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FORT MYERS, Fla. (AP) -- Boston Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington says outfield prospect Bryce Brentz accidentally shot himself in the leg last month, but could recover in time to play in spring training.

Cherington said Saturday that Brentz was cleaning the gun went it went off. The bullet passed through Brentz's left leg.


Rub a little dirt on it and he'll be good to go.
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#751 Feb 10 2013 at 12:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I feel no one is stupid enough to clean a loaded weapon. He clearly just didn't want to be recruited by the Red Sox.
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