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Why do I come to ZAM?Follow

#52 Dec 31 2011 at 7:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I vaguely remember reading this when it was originally posted, I won't bother doing so again, but I'll put my 2 cents in anyway.

Kirby wrote:
Unless you're talking about FFXIV, I don't see how you can see forums as "an online complaint department".


I believe Magil is speaking in general, whereas you're thinking of a specific instance. Go to almost any forum on the internet and it's full of whiny **** people complaining about anything they can think of, many times admitting they know nothing of what it is they complain about while claiming to know more than the people they whine at. That applies to these boards as well, but the karma system generally does a better job at weeding out the truly ignorant than a typical admin moderated board.

There are a few boards here that have really turned me off, the XI board being one of them. For years I wanted to try XI but didn't for one simple reason, the boards here were so full of incessant moaning I couldn't deal with it. Although last year I found a copy of XI in the bargain bin and grabbed it. Installed it, started it up, then ran into a problem. I went to the XI board and again, the whining and **** I simply uninstalled and never looked back.

Another example is when SOE was taken offline for a few weeks. I'm no expert as I'm still in school, but I've literally been messing with computers and networks since I was old enough to open a case. InfoSec is not only a career path for me, but a passion. I spent several pages arguing with people who by their own admission knew nothing about a security audit or the steps involved in a large scale system breach like SOE had, yet felt that SOE should have the servers back online within minutes and felt that SOE should come to their door with a hand written apology for interrupting their gaming. I literally find it mind-boggling, trying to understand how such blatantly ignorant **** people are capable of living day-to-day. I'm no genius, but I at least have enough common sense to figure out what the **** I'm talking about before **** about something.

As far as ZAM itself, EQ was the last game I played where this site came in handy as far as information. I'd look up a few things on occasion in the other gaming sections, but the info has never been as reliable as it was in Lucy or the Bestiary. I'm not going to point fingers or place blame anywhere, not because I'm better than that, but because it was a series of events. I guess I'm still here because the karma system works for the most part, keeping the idiots from getting too out of control. Also I recognize a lot of the names, and I'd like to think a few recognize mine as well. Having been here since '04 with my post count, it's fairly obvious that I'm a lurker for the most part, but I'm a people watcher too, so there's that.

It's like the old haunt that's past it's prime. You know it's time to go, but you're just not ready to give up your seat.
#53 Dec 31 2011 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Raolan wrote:
Installed it, started it up, then ran into a problem. I went to the XI board and again, the whining and **** I simply uninstalled and never looked back.
Seriously? I mean, one forum visit (to a third party site) completely and permanently ruined the game experience for you? Because that sounds pretty ridiculous.

Edited, Dec 31st 2011 8:25am by bsphil
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#54 Dec 31 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Magilicotti wrote:
It's not directed at this site primarily mind you, but forums overall. But still, look at the front page of XI forums and all the OMG, Tanaka this, and Tanaka that. Who the flip cares. Don't like the game anymore, don't **** play it. It's amazing why one would harbor so much ill torwards something, yet still cling to it.
Not to drag out that dead horse we've been beating over there, but see we do enjoy the game, just not the direction it's taking...
Magilicotti wrote:
I hate XIV only because my outdated computer won't run it. I'll wait until the PS3 version to hate it properly. I've played every FF game to ever come to market. I won't be denied, dammit!
Yea, deny yourself. Trust me, wait for this epic reboot they have been going on about. If it actually is a full rewrite, might make it playable. Otherwise, avoid it like it was X-2 all over again.

Raolan wrote:
There are a few boards here that have really turned me off, the XI board being one of them. For years I wanted to try XI but didn't for one simple reason, the boards here were so full of incessant moaning I couldn't deal with it. Although last year I found a copy of XI in the bargain bin and grabbed it. Installed it, started it up, then ran into a problem. I went to the XI board and again, the whining and **** I simply uninstalled and never looked back.

It comes and goes in XI boards. There are times when the forum has more positivity, but even I'm willing to admit morale is no where near it was in 2004. Everything was new and shiny then, and people were excited with each acheivement. We're closing on the 10th year now, and the shine has worn off completely, and with it in the hands of a director that led to a mass exodus of players before it definitely is not the time to expect cheery dialogue.

I can assume that when Cataclysm was on the cusp of happening, WoW probably had some similar waves of dissent. Change is not something gamers like, especialy wide-sweeping ones that can change the direction of a game.

Now, as for ZAM... yea I mainly re-up'd premium for ad removal now. I suppose I could take the extra steps and kill the adspace if I wanted to, but then I have this faint hope that supporting the site will help... somehow.

I'd love some new toys for paying, but I don't foresee them being added lol!
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#55 Dec 31 2011 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem Pawk wrote:
Not to drag out that dead horse we've been beating over there, but see we do enjoy the game, just not the direction it's taking...

I'll admit, there's a fine line between voicing an opinion on a subject and outright complaining just to complain. I think that's where fan sites get it right over O-boards. Here it's just a way to say, "This sucks, dun like it, let's discuss it". versus o-board complaint overload. That's where I blew a fuse, I think. Because I would read the games forum and be sick of all the complaints, and come here to escape it and draw into actual debate, only to see it here as well. But you are right, over all, the grass is greener here as far as possible discussion.

I'll reserve my own personal stance on the FFXI direction for such topics already exsisting on the XI general forum.

Wonder Gem Pawk wrote:
Yea, deny yourself. Trust me, wait for this epic reboot they have been going on about. If it actually is a full rewrite, might make it playable. Otherwise, avoid it like it was X-2 all over again.

I've heard as much, and has a part to play in the delay of the console versions release. That's why I'll wait for console at this point. Also for the record, I enjoyed X-2. Sue me.

Wonder Gem Pawk wrote:
I can assume that when Cataclysm was on the cusp of happening, WoW probably had some similar waves of dissent. Change is not something gamers like, especialy wide-sweeping ones that can change the direction of a game.


It could be said of every expansion, particularly that after BC, starting around WotLK. They didn't just add content, but change various components of the gameplay. It's worse so far with the announcement of Panda Express, because once again, changes galore without just adding new content. Blame their need to balance PvP with PvE. Seems logical.

Wonder Gem Pawk wrote:
Now, as for ZAM... yea I mainly re-up'd premium for ad removal now. I suppose I could take the extra steps and kill the adspace if I wanted to, but then I have this faint hope that supporting the site will help... somehow.

I'd love some new toys for paying, but I don't foresee them being added lol!


My fustration had little to do with ZAM and it's admin's, but my own view of forums in general. I also stopped any and all online gaming during this period as well. Just need the break I suppose. I could care less for the ability to rate others, or ad removal. I just wanted to see my avatar again.
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#56 Dec 31 2011 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Raolan wrote:
Installed it, started it up, then ran into a problem. I went to the XI board and again, the whining and **** I simply uninstalled and never looked back.
Seriously? I mean, one forum visit (to a third party site) completely and permanently ruined the game experience for you? Because that sounds pretty ridiculous.

Edited, Dec 31st 2011 8:25am by bsphil


Yea, one visit is all it takes to remind me of the **** I would read every other time I would visit that forum. As I said, I wanted to try the game for awhile, so I ventured over there multiple times to get info on the game.
#57 Dec 31 2011 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
I vaguely remember reading this when it was originally posted, I won't bother doing so again, but I'll put my 2 cents in anyway.

Kirby wrote:
Unless you're talking about FFXIV, I don't see how you can see forums as "an online complaint department".


I believe Magil is speaking in general, whereas you're thinking of a specific instance. Go to almost any forum on the internet and it's full of whiny **** people complaining about anything they can think of, many times admitting they know nothing of what it is they complain about while claiming to know more than the people they whine at. That applies to these boards as well, but the karma system generally does a better job at weeding out the truly ignorant than a typical admin moderated board.
No, I was talking in general too.

I've even posted on MW2 forums, and don't really see where you or Magil are coming from.
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#58 Dec 31 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
Raolan wrote:
I vaguely remember reading this when it was originally posted, I won't bother doing so again, but I'll put my 2 cents in anyway.

Kirby wrote:
Unless you're talking about FFXIV, I don't see how you can see forums as "an online complaint department".


I believe Magil is speaking in general, whereas you're thinking of a specific instance. Go to almost any forum on the internet and it's full of whiny **** people complaining about anything they can think of, many times admitting they know nothing of what it is they complain about while claiming to know more than the people they whine at. That applies to these boards as well, but the karma system generally does a better job at weeding out the truly ignorant than a typical admin moderated board.
No, I was talking in general too.

I've even posted on MW2 forums, and don't really see where you or Magil are coming from.


Don't see it in what regards? That people use forums to whine and **** or that it happens here?
#59 Dec 31 2011 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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That forums are a pile of never ending negative comments.

That you are actually deterred from playing a game, because someone else whined about that game.
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#60 Dec 31 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
That forums are a pile of never ending negative comments.

That you are actually deterred from playing a game, because someone else whined about that game.


Forums aren't always a never ending pile of crap, but many people tend to forego the niceties and behave like idiots, simply because they can. The guise of anonymity tends to bring out the worst in people. The problem extends to the internet as a whole, but forums tend to gather it all in one place.

As far as walking away from XI because of the forums, what's so hard to believe? The forums are a direct indication of the community and I have never been over to the XI side where there weren't several posts of pure **** for no reason other than being pure crap. I'm not saying it's always like that, just that it's what I see every time I go over there. That single instance didn't turn me away, it was the immediate reminder of why I avoided it for so long that did it. Also, my only desire to play XI came from the fact that I'm a long time FF fan and wanted to give it a go.
#61 Dec 31 2011 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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I think anyone can agree that anonymity has brought with it some of the worst behaviour.

Raolan wrote:
That single instance didn't turn me away, it was the immediate reminder of why I avoided it for so long that did it.
So... you're not complaining about the forums themselves, you're complaining about the playerbase that FFXI has?
Seems that way to me.
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#62 Dec 31 2011 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
I think anyone can agree that anonymity has brought with it some of the worst behaviour.

Raolan wrote:
That single instance didn't turn me away, it was the immediate reminder of why I avoided it for so long that did it.
So... you're not complaining about the forums themselves, you're complaining about the playerbase that FFXI has?
Seems that way to me.


I didn't mean to imply that the forums themselves were the problem. The problem is the people, the forums are just a place for large groups of people to express themselves.
#63 Dec 31 2011 at 5:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Judging the community based on forums is like judging computers by going to 4chan: Sure you'll form an opinion, but likely you'll be biased for no better reason than that your source is full of inacurate information.

Actually playing with people in FFXI is very fun. The reason we are vocal here is to make noise for change in the game. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it does.
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