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#27 Sep 29 2011 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
I don't have a credit card, I'm afraid I won't be able to control myself.

This isn't a credit card, that I could at least understand. It's debit cards.


I know. I use my debit card daily, several times a day. I was saying that using a credit card instead isn't an option for me. I'll just have to get hit with this fee.
#28 Sep 30 2011 at 2:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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[quote=LockeColeMA][quote]Last month, Wells Fargo (WFC, Fortune 500) said it will test a $3 monthly fee in Georgia, New Mexico, Nevada, Oregon and Washington beginning Oct. 14 for customers who use their debit card for purchases.

At the end of last year, JPMorgan Chase (JPM, Fortune 500) announced a similar test, in which it charged customers in northern Wisconsin a $3 fee for using their debit cards. A Chase spokesman said last month that the tests were still ******************************
#29 Sep 30 2011 at 3:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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PunkFloyd, King of Bards wrote:
NixNot wrote:
@#%^ you Wells Fargo, I use my debit card for EVERYTHING. I used it five times today alone! @#%^ carrying around cash.


Do yourself a favor and go get a free credit card (I use Discover) that offers cash back. Use that for everything and pay it off every month. Not only will you get "free" money via the cash back, you may be better protected than you would be by using a debit card.
FYI, don't ever leave the US. You can't use that anywhere else.
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#30 Sep 30 2011 at 4:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
PunkFloyd, King of Bards wrote:
NixNot wrote:
@#%^ you Wells Fargo, I use my debit card for EVERYTHING. I used it five times today alone! @#%^ carrying around cash.


Do yourself a favor and go get a free credit card (I use Discover) that offers cash back. Use that for everything and pay it off every month. Not only will you get "free" money via the cash back, you may be better protected than you would be by using a debit card.
FYI, don't ever leave the US. You can't use that anywhere else.

This. Visa/Mastercard is popular worldwide; American Express you can get away with in most popular business areas but not smaller stores; but Discover is the black sheep of the family. Even within the US it's the least accepted of the four (apparently due to charging higher transaction fees than the others years ago, although I hear they're all pretty equal now).
#31 Sep 30 2011 at 5:18 AM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
I don't have a credit card, I'm afraid I won't be able to control myself.

This isn't a credit card, that I could at least understand. It's debit cards.


I know. I use my debit card daily, several times a day. I was saying that using a credit card instead isn't an option for me. I'll just have to get hit with this fee.

Gotcha. It is a bit of a **** move by the banks. I mean, it's not like they're not making sh*t loads of money on the over night markets with your savings or anything.
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#32 Sep 30 2011 at 5:49 AM Rating: Good
Nadenu wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
I don't have a credit card, I'm afraid I won't be able to control myself.

This isn't a credit card, that I could at least understand. It's debit cards.


I know. I use my debit card daily, several times a day. I was saying that using a credit card instead isn't an option for me. I'll just have to get hit with this fee.
One little thing you can do is get a credit card with a low limit, and funnel some of your income into a seperate checking account that will equal that limit (or what you think you will spend) over a month. It's not perfect, but it's a good way to make sure you don't go crazy with the card, and you will have the money available in the new checking account to pay the bill each month.

Or just pay the $36 - $60 a year in the fees.
#33 Sep 30 2011 at 8:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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National mega-bank finds another reason to ***** customers over. Film at 11.

This is why I bank at a smaller local bank. I'm disappointed that they're being bought out by Comerica, so it'll be my excuse to go to either USAA online checking or a local credit union. I know they'll start adding maintenance fees when the rebranding is complete, so I'll ditch before that happens. Moving my direct deposit over will be a bit of a pain, but I'd have to do that anyway so I might as well get it over with.

Debit card fees still don't really affect me since I usually use credit cards unless there's a cash or debit discount (sometimes smaller businesses will cut you a bit of a cash discount if you ask! :D), and am particularly **** about my finances. It's just the principle of the thing. I have several linked accounts with Amex savings, and I separate each general budget item into separate accounts. Every week I transfer my accrued expenses for the week to my "to pay card" savings, which is then transferred to my current local checking account about 5 business days before my cards' due dates. Their transfer times are very quick and are usually available in my checking account the next day, but I still like to plan ahead.

Also, every time I've spoken on the phone with them about an account issue, their customer service reps have been very helpful and polite. Amex is known for their good customer service for a reason.

Edited, Sep 30th 2011 9:30am by Sweetums
#34 Sep 30 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Why would anyone all of a sudden start spending more just because you're holding a different piece of plastic? Unless you're constantly hitting an empty bank account I guess.
#35 Sep 30 2011 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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I suppose if you don't pay attention to your spending, you might from all of the interest on a non-zero balance. There are also some people who like to justify unbudgeted purchases with "I'll just pay later, when I have the money!" Some people, regardless of the payment method, will go to a store to waffle about a $2 purchase for 30 minutes, and then leave empty-handed *cough*.

Then again, my bank never charged overdraft fees when you go into the negative using your debit card.

Edited, Sep 30th 2011 9:41am by Sweetums
#36 Sep 30 2011 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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Regions is also doing this starting tomorrow. I have a credit card with them as well which I will use more often now, but also considering a card with a rewards program.
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#37 Sep 30 2011 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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If you're only going with one card, I like the Dividend Platinum Select, even if it's from sh*ttybank. If you're a college student it's ridiculously easy to get the student one, and the credit limit is high enough to be usable as a main card while still maintaining a good credit utilization ratio. It's also ludicrously easy to raise it: I went from $4000 to $5000 in one fell swoop without even having a hard credit inquiry. It can easily cover something like an expensive car repair if you don't keep your emergency fund in your checking account.

Only do this is you can pay off the balance immediately since rewards cards always have astronomical interest rates!

Quote:
One little thing you can do is get a credit card with a low limit, and funnel some of your income into a seperate checking account that will equal that limit (or what you think you will spend) over a month.

You really do not want to do this, because this could max out your credit card which really hurts your score. The ideal ratio is apparently around 30% of your credit used.



Edited, Sep 30th 2011 10:24am by Sweetums
#38 Sep 30 2011 at 9:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Why would anyone all of a sudden start spending more just because you're holding a different piece of plastic? Unless you're constantly hitting an empty bank account I guess.


Some people basically use the credit card for all the purchasing, then funnel money back into the credit card when payroll pops up. So it can get really tempting if your card limit is higher than your weekly/biweekly/monthly payroll and something you want is *right there* and only a couple clicks away.

Especially for probably half of the ZAM forums when November comes around and all those games release. :D

#39 Sep 30 2011 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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Sweetums wrote:
Amex is known for their good customer service for a reason.
Smiley: confused First I've ever heard of it and it's certainly not been my experience.
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#40 Sep 30 2011 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Sweetums wrote:
Amex is known for their good customer service for a reason.
Smiley: confused First I've ever heard of it and it's certainly not been my experience.
Maybe not. It's just what I've heard from other people who use Amex's cards. Might not be true overall, I suppose.
#41 Sep 30 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sweetums wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Sweetums wrote:
Amex is known for their good customer service for a reason.
Smiley: confused First I've ever heard of it and it's certainly not been my experience.
Maybe not. It's just what I've heard from other people who use Amex's cards. Might not be true overall, I suppose.

My only card is an Amex and I've never actually had cause to talk to them. But I've been very satisfied with it; good rewards, and I pay it off each month so I never worry about the interest.

My main issue is the rare time I'll go to a gas station that only accepts Visa / Mastercard Smiley: glare
#42 Sep 30 2011 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Yet another example of Obama proposing some idea, conservatives saying "don't do that, or X negative result will occur", Obama doing it anyway, and then... wait for it... the exact bad thing that conservatives predicted happens. It's almost like we know what the hell we're talking about or something.

As funny as back in May when this story first broke and you made this same argument and had to backpedal and spin like a madman Smiley: laugh

This does give good evidence though that once a business is drawing blood from you, they'll never voluntarily accept less as shown by retailers making no move to lower their prices to reflect these savings for them. A good lesson for when people claim "Just remove this or that restriction and it's the consumer who'll benefit!"
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#43 Sep 30 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Yet another example of Obama proposing some idea, conservatives saying "don't do that, or X negative result will occur", Obama doing it anyway, and then... wait for it... the exact bad thing that conservatives predicted happens. It's almost like we know what the hell we're talking about or something.

As funny as back in May when this story first broke and you made this same argument and had to backpedal and spin like a madman Smiley: laugh

This does give good evidence though that once a business is drawing blood from you, they'll never voluntarily accept less as shown by retailers making no move to lower their prices to reflect these savings for them. A good lesson for when people claim "Just remove this or that restriction and it's the consumer who'll benefit!"


Minus local gas stations around here. They ride those razor margins.
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#44 Sep 30 2011 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
This does give good evidence though that once a business is drawing blood from you, they'll never voluntarily accept less as shown by retailers making no move to lower their prices to reflect these savings for them.


And by "drawing blood" you mean "charging what the market will bear for their goods and services". You get that if these banks thought they would lose more (profitable) business by shifting these fees in this way than they'll gain in profits by charging them, they wouldn't do it. And loud protestations from individuals on an online forum aside, they know better than you do what their customers will really do on whole.


Quote:
A good lesson for when people claim "Just remove this or that restriction and it's the consumer who'll benefit!"


What you meant to say is that it's a good lesson for when people claim "Just add this or that restriction and it's the consumer who'll benefit!". No one makes the claim you are repeating Joph. The supply side argument is wholly different. It says that removing restrictions will make business more profitable for the businessman, who will then turn around and invest in more business, hire more people, and in the case of banks, hand out more loans, to more people, giving them opportunities to themselves achieve the American Dream(tm).

We on the right warn that adding restrictions will only cause those businesses to shift where they get their money. Which is... wait for it... exactly what happened.
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#45 Sep 30 2011 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Why would anyone all of a sudden start spending more just because you're holding a different piece of plastic? Unless you're constantly hitting an empty bank account I guess.


Several people have answered, but it bears repeating IMO. When someone has a debit card, they always know that they are limited to the actual dollars in their account. If they hit that limit (or overdraft a bit), they can't use the card anymore. A credit card has a limit that is disconnected from the money the person actually has. It's shocking how many people who don't have more than a few hundred dollars in their bank account at any given time, upon receiving a credit card with a $5k limit really do think "I've got $5k I can use to buy stuff!".


Oh. And as to how to avoid the charges? I believe if you maintain more than $50k in your accounts, etrade will waive all their charges. And they offer much better checking and savings account rates *and* offer credit and debit cards (VISA IIRC). So now you've all got a great excuse to start investing online!
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#46 Sep 30 2011 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ravashack wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
Why would anyone all of a sudden start spending more just because you're holding a different piece of plastic? Unless you're constantly hitting an empty bank account I guess.


Some people basically use the credit card for all the purchasing, then funnel money back into the credit card when payroll pops up. So it can get really tempting if your card limit is higher than your weekly/biweekly/monthly payroll and something you want is *right there* and only a couple clicks away.

This. I've had credit cards before and I went a little crazy with them. And while I've gotten much better with managing money as I've gotten older, I know that I might still give in to temptation and spend above and beyond, rationalizing that "people pay the minimum balance all the time, it's no big deal!"
#47 Sep 30 2011 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
And by "drawing blood" you mean "charging what the market will bear for their goods and services". You get that if these banks...

You get that these retailers won't budge their prices despite now making more money per purchase. Just like the fantasies that if we just removed this regulation or that rule, businesses would fall all over themselves to pass those savings along.

Of course you don't realize that, you Pollyanna little puppet Smiley: smile
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#48 Sep 30 2011 at 5:24 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
And by "drawing blood" you mean "charging what the market will bear for their goods and services". You get that if these banks...

You get that these retailers won't budge their prices despite now making more money per purchase.


What part of "charge what the market will bear" do you think has to do with how much profit the business makes per purchase?

Quote:
Just like the fantasies that if we just removed this regulation or that rule, businesses would fall all over themselves to pass those savings along.


I just wrote a whole paragraph about how your assumptions about what folks on "my side" think will happen if you reduce regulation was wrong, and you just repeated the exact thing I just told you was wrong.

Do you at any point maybe re-assess your own assumptions when they continually fail to match reality? Or do you just stumble through life, eternally confused as to why outcomes don't match expectations?
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#49 Sep 30 2011 at 5:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
Why would anyone all of a sudden start spending more just because you're holding a different piece of plastic? Unless you're constantly hitting an empty bank account I guess.


Several people have answered, but it bears repeating IMO. When someone has a debit card, they always know that they are limited to the actual dollars in their account. If they hit that limit (or overdraft a bit), they can't use the card anymore. A credit card has a limit that is disconnected from the money the person actually has. It's shocking how many people who don't have more than a few hundred dollars in their bank account at any given time, upon receiving a credit card with a $5k limit really do think "I've got $5k I can use to buy stuff!".
There's also the "I can buy this more expensive thing because I'll get more rewaaaaaaaaards."
#50 Sep 30 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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Sweetums wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
Why would anyone all of a sudden start spending more just because you're holding a different piece of plastic? Unless you're constantly hitting an empty bank account I guess.


Several people have answered, but it bears repeating IMO. When someone has a debit card, they always know that they are limited to the actual dollars in their account. If they hit that limit (or overdraft a bit), they can't use the card anymore. A credit card has a limit that is disconnected from the money the person actually has. It's shocking how many people who don't have more than a few hundred dollars in their bank account at any given time, upon receiving a credit card with a $5k limit really do think "I've got $5k I can use to buy stuff!".
There's also the "I can buy this more expensive thing because I'll get more rewaaaaaaaaards..."

... that aren't nearly worth the amount of credit card interest they'll pay to get them.
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#51 Sep 30 2011 at 9:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Also, the "premium" checking accounts who already pay additional fees will be exempt. In our case, we have a Crown Checking account with BoA because of our mortgage - normally $50 a year or something. We also have a deal where we pay our mortgage out of that checking account via automatic debit, and they give us an extra $25 credit each month on the mortgage. So they're paying us for that checking account. We're considering just using that as the primary checking account if WF decides to slap its former Wachovia people with the fee.
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