Nyzul Uncharted: nice gear, cheater!Follow

You realize the existence of this dagger is far higher than the other weapons due to the ease of the mob it comes from in relation to farming HMP, right? The sheer number of Qu'lins killed should also dwarf the number of NNI clears exponentially due to the potential to spam them indefinitely. In SE land, unfortunately, that means diminished drop rates are justified. 1,385 daggers is pretty sad if you start trying to compare it against the total population. If 200k people play, that's 0.6925% of the population with one. A number like that tends to trigger my, "Why the **** do you waste time developing such content?!" logic since I'm not exactly a fan of artificially keeping rewards away from players, be it for prestige purposes or an excuse to skimp on content.

In further contrast, people aren't exactly grumbling about the unfairness of even completing VW. At worst, the only thing you need to fight the above is someone with the proper KI to pop it. No need for flee hacks, DAT swaps, or niche party set ups mooching Embrava. People have ******* about the drop rates, and rightfully so. The "solution" we got was, sadly, idiotic at best.

Anyway, if SE isn't checking the existence of items compared to clears of something, they're failing pretty hard. It's like anti-dupe 101 from a security standpoint.

We might not agree with their justification, but you can't exactly spam Nyzul, either. And really, I think people would be okay with the non-100% KI from a 100 clear if they knew they could get to it consistently. That's more of a pandering toward SE's flawed balance through rarity rhetoric, though.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/25702-Nyzul-Isle-Assault-Bug?p=340539#post340539

Don't think anyone was denying that it was cheating so I don't get the point of this post.

The point? After eight pages of feeble justifications and cheating-apologists, those of us who don't hack our way to better gear are vindicated.

I remember when this game wasn't about exploiting your way to the best gear, and when the dupers, the cheaters, and the botters were looked down upon with disdain... apparently for most of the people in this thread, cheating is fine so long as it benefits them.

I doubt we'll get the good community of old back, but at least there will be some karmic justice in watching the STF bust some clipper-users kneecaps.



Oh, I agree, but all the cheaters said it was too hard and unreasonable without cheating. The fact that it can be won legit (unlike, say, Absolute Virtue where every winning strategy was patched out) gives even less of an excuse for cheating... it's like entering the olympics and cheating because, when you have to face good opponents, you might not win every time!

My faith in FFXI ever recovering from it's current slump is pretty low. Granted, an expansion is around the bend, but that bend feels like it's lightyears away. I quit shortly after the VW (as in void watch, for clarification purposes) focus took over, and just before the final level increase, but from the sounds of things they are largely the same, if not worse than when I left. It's bad enough that Nyzul and all of the other 'old school' endgame events were reintroduced, but to reintroduce them in such a ludicrous manner, and this far along still have the same problems as when they were introduced tells me that those events need IMMEDIATE attention, before the expansion even comes into play. The Dev team has to be sick of cleaning up after crappy decisions, but with Tanaka gone there's really no excuse anymore, no brick-wall barrier preventing progress. Just change VW, Nyzul, etc to be 'fun' if they are going to be in the game and such a prominent part of gear progression. There's really no reason things need to be so bad that people rampantly cheat.

Part of what drove me away from voidwalkers (edited for clarification, listed both void watch and voidwalkers as VW before edit), was how all the link-shells I was in (and these were very reputable shells) would use cheats to find the location of the otherwise-invisable NMs, stand directly on top of their spawn, and tell the people in the LS that needed the key items to go directly there and pop it. The bleeding over of cheats into wall hacks, speed hacks, teleport hacks, and even specifically targeted events like Nyzul having otherwise impossible-to-know pieces of information not for the sake of winning an incredibly tough battle, but simply for the sake of progress so the group doesn't experience the constant frustration of intended failure doesn't really surprise me.

The thing is, I'd like to come back. I've always like the FFXI environment and the people in the game. This is a great community. The problem is the game has taken such a dive post Abyssea than it's not even worth playing unless your only end-game interest 'is' Abyssea, even then, you'd be screwed out of the "abyssea-specific" weapons that were supposed to be a primary feature of Abyssea, who's history is rooted in and stems from Abyssea, because the acquisition of those items takes place outside Abyssea, in events where people feel the 'need' to cheat, making a large portion of the content inside Abyssea pretty futile & pointless to pursue (for almost every job anyhow).

I'm a huge fan of windower, and I think spellcast is a huge relief for those of us who juggle 60 million macros accross all the FFXI jobs, but beyond that, outright wall hacking, speed hacking etc, it's just too... I don't know... Counterstrike-ish for the FFXI world.

My point is that, while I honestly don't blame the cheaters at this point, because the game is so ridiculous that people like myself are tempted to just log on and toy with programming their own bots, hacks, etc, as a personal challenge and piece of entertainment, with the idea that if they @#%^ everything and everyone else over, it's easy to look back and say "Oh well, S/E Made things so frustratingly bad that no person in their right mind want's to play normal anymore, so in a worst-case scenario, if I'm banned, I'm not playing a game in a way I don't want to play it anymore"... it's hard to argue with that, because sadly, it's more logical than banging your head against the wall and getting no where in a videogame for a huge chunk of your life.

Again, I like FFXI and I hope all this crap gets 'fixed' to the point of being playable and enjoyable, but in the current state of the game, I have a hard time envisioning very many people logging in and just having 'fun' at all, and if this progresses, the private server path of FFXI may very well go the way of molten-wow, where the game is a near-retail experience, minus a huge chunk of the bullsh*t.



Edited, Jul 20th 2012 5:20pm by FUJILIVES

The only way you can feel vindicated by that post by SE is if you take the stance that even using windower without any plug-ins is cheating. Because that's what SE said in that post.

Of course he doesn't remember that. He wasn't playing the game then, by his own admissions.

I think thats what you meant to say.

It depends how they fix it. Regardless of their "omg, ppl r cheeting @ NI!??!!?!?!" response, they've been moving the lamps around in the .dats every update since releasing Neo-NI to try and mess up .dat swappers. They clearly always knew it was happening. Whether or not they're actually going to address it or just going to make the whiny JPs feel good is still up for debate.

Yeah, if this post happened in 2002-2004, the playerbase would made more of an uproar against it (as seen in the salvage link I posted)



Luck has always been a factor in FFXI. If not, there would be no need for Treasure Hunter. Drops would be 100%, BNCMs would always be rewarded.



That post sums of my feelings on the matter.



I guess I, and most of my NA friends are Japanese then.



Yep.



Oh SE knew. When there is a hack that gets so out of control and spreads like wild fire, they HAVE to take action to save face. It just proves a point. What other people do DOES have an effect on the game you play. This is why such things like cheating should matter to the playerbase. SE may even remove all of the new gear from the game as a result or maybe even nerf it. We don't know what they are going to do, so it's sort of like playing with fire. Will it be a slap on the wrist to those involved? Will it be a perm ban? Will people get banned just from association. I would be pissed if I got banned from the game just because some person is dat hacking in my PT.

IRL anology: A DEA agent sees someone drive 100 mph once in a while on a strech of road. They are more busy with drug busts and see that one person as a small fish, so they don't bother to pull them over.

Another day 50 people are driving 100 mph, get in car crashes and the media plaster the story all over the headlines. I bet you the next day that DEA agent is going to pull over ANY person going 100 mph just because the pressure is on them to do so. I am sure the developers of FFXI don't want to see the game as a cheater's paradise. They don't want the game to be seen as failure as a result of all of this hacking in the eyes of the general public... it's just bad for business.

I know this post will most likely bring of a Tanaka debate however... *rolls eyes*

The people cheated, admitted to it being such. They knew there could be consequences for cheating. Therefore they shouldn't cry foul when they were warned...

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 1:57am by Prrsha

The Salvage debacle didn't even involve hacking, it was an exploit... yet people seemed to hold a higher standard about it back then. And yes, they are people who care about the dat swapping. Every action has a reaction and this bad behavior just forces them to do something drastic. What if they nerfed all of the gear for that event? Would it be a fair punishment for those who actually got them legit? What if people got banned from having a dat hacker in their PT? That's my worry... SE doesn't have a very good track record when the ban hammer drops. It tends to swat some innocent people along the way that it shouldn't have...

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 3:34am by Prrsha