Solid translation of JP /check msgFollow

I posted the following in a thread recently- not only is that thread buried deep in the forum- but the post is buried deep in the thread. I decided that this might be of enough interest to people (you're a gaming, anime watching Japan-o-phile- admit it!) to actually post it as it's own thread. Forgive me if you feel I am just resurrecting a long dead issue. I feel my view is a fresh and informative one for reasons I think you will discover.

The following is a translation of the Japanese text that appears when you are examined. ("[Name] examines you." in the English version of FF XI). My credentials to translate the sentence include two years of 14 hour a day LDS missionary service in Japan, some three dozen credits of upper division Japanese courses, as well as professional-level certification in simultaneous Japanese interpretation.

For those may not know- many Japanese find being examined intrusive or rude, and consider it proper to ask before you /check. Feel free to dig up some old spam filed relic of a thread deep in the bowels of the forum to aquaint yourself with the issue ;)

Copy/paste with slight revision begins from this colon:

Here it is in romaji so y'all who know Japanese can comment on it. (The double t is used to represent a small tsu/hard consonant in the romanization system I learned, and the "wo" direct object marker is simply "o")

[Name] wa anata o ji tto mitsumeta.

The "problem" with this phrase is that it includes a gitaigo (onomatopoeia used as an adverb).... really tough to translate with the proper feeling (they are a linguistic device that Japanese has developed more fully than any other language I know of). BUT- I made a claim and I will represent.

I would translate the phrase (simply):

[Name] stares at you.

That's it guys. There is absolutely no sexual/romantic/lusty implication to the sentence that isn't there in the English. I feel that "looks you up and down" is a sketchy translation becuase it A) implies movement (the "ji tto" actually subtly implies no eye movement) and B) that kind of movement in the eyes is a universal sign of sexual sizing up (for reasons I assume you can all guess at). This content was relevant b/c the original thread contained a lengthy discussion over whether the JP msg had some sexual connotation or not

Can staring at someone be lusty? Sure it can- but that implication is not explicit in the sentence. Can it be invasive? Most cultures (including American and European ones) find staring to be unsettling.

I'll do advanced translation version about exactly how you could translate the adverbial onomatopoeia, but frankly I think it is unecessary. It would be more appropriate in a language class than an FF XI forum. If you really want the advanced version- keep reading.

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Basically, "ji tto" is just an intensifier and makes the verb "stronger." Perhaps the translation

[Name] stares intently at you. or

[Name] stares fixedly at you.

does it justice. The key verb in the sentece "mitsumeru" is most commonly translated "to stare." (that's the first thing that popped into my head too).

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjdic.html (an excellent online dictionary) defines the verb thus: "to stare at; to gaze at; to look hard at; to watch intently; to fix one's eyes on." I think I prefer the second transaltion- it communicates the subtle implications of the Japanese more fully.

Well- you should get the point now, I will give it a rest. Thanks for reading.

EDIT: There's always another spelling error! Esp. w/ me!

Edited, Fri Jan 21 04:14:16 2005 by Kiyokatsu

I always ask people before I check them. But I never check japanese people because I don't know how to ask politely.

Could you please give me a sentence to say ? I'd really like to be as polite as possible, giving them the feeling they can turn my request down easily without offending me.. I'm not sure I was very clear.. ^^

Very interesting post though. Thank you.

if they hate it so much why dont they bloody change it

Why doesn't Square-Enix just change the phrase into something less intrusive in the next patch? I doubt that would be difficult to do at all.

Why did they put it in there in the first place? Games start out as Japanese and then are translated. This isn't the fault of an American translator making a mistake and substituting a phrase that people find offensive.

This is such an easy problem to solve. It's not like inflation, or fish-botting, or NM camping.... This is changing the contents of one line of text.

So why not just do it?

Why don't people just turn the filter on????

Has no relavence to the game and you don't even have to see it unless you really enjoy complaining about it.

{Walk on eggshells} {Can I do it}

I think they'd rather have you do a simple (|/check|)(|Can I have it?|). That way they know why you're about to ask them some question on their armor.

It saves you both a lot if irritation, and most likely some anger with each other.

Of course, saying they should turn their filters off is assuming a lot.

I don't ask before I /check because it's pointless. The command was put into this game for a reason. If you don't like getting checked, then turn the lvl 1 system message filter on. Also, how do I know who's Japanese and who isn't? We can't tell by the names because they are all written in English. I saw a guy named Josh or Brian or something on my server shouting in Japanese symbols one day. While a lot of American fans of Anime pick Japanese-sounding names for their characters. There is no way to tell who is Japanese or not until they actually speak, which brings me to my next point:

Usually I /check someone while running past them just to see what that cool helmet or weapon they have equipped is. I don't have time to stop, send a /tell, wait for "permission", then check. Meanwhile they are halfway across Vana'diel on an airship and I just wasted a minute of my life. And the other time I /check is when I am in a party. I want to see what my partners are using.

I have never asked permission to /check, and I never will. If these high-level Japanese are standing in Lower Jeuno with some lvl 75 Rare/Ex equipment and I want to see what it is, then I'm going to check them, then move on. Why else did they level/quest so much for items in this game for? Just to store them in their MH? Of course not. It's a sign of pride to show off your hard-earned equipment. If they don't like it they can go Anon and un-equip every last item on their character for all I care. My examining them is not to harass them, it's that I was so in awe of their high-level godness that I want to see what they are wearing in hopes I can some day be that character. In a way, it's like looking up to them.

On the other hand, I actually enjoy being examined. It means that someone thought that something I was wearing was cool and wanted to check me out. That's fine by me. And if I ever get high level and start to find it annoying: lvl 1 system message filter goes on or I walk around town naked.

Excellent post, Kiyokatsu. Rate up! ^^

I have check turned off myself. I never know who is looking at me or not.

The other issue I have with "requiring" permission to check someone: you would never know what LS they are in without doing it. There is no other indication in the game (certainly not in /sea) which tells you their LS name.

I understand why JP players get upset. Its not that they don't want to see that they are checked. They want everyone to have the same understanding of respect that they do. Its about their notion of politeness. But even if NA players were to conform to all the various rules about politeness the JP have, many JP players will not accept NA players as equals. Its the exclusive nature of JP culture. So offend them or not, I don't see what difference it makes.

Regardless if what the exact translation is, they already know that they are being checked, so what's the big deal. When JP players check one another, they're getting the same message so why should they get mad at us for it? I usually ask before I check, but not always. Would it be any different for NA players if it said "[Name] eye fu[i][/i]cks you."? After the initial shock, you wouldn't really care so much, especially if you get it like dozens of times day.

If it's a standard message, shouldn't people know that no one is personally trying to offended them? It's built into the game that way.

A little off topic...but
Why do some NA get offended when you check them?

and here's where I get a rate down....

I've talked about this in game with several high level NA, while they were working on their subs, and most of them seemed to agree with my thoughts on this. They do it because the Japanese players do it. Many NA players put the JP players on such a pedestal that they will do anything and everything they do. If tomorrow a large group of japanese players were to start playing only in level 1 armour, I can say for certain that a large group of NA players would be doing the same thing within hours. It's kind of sad, really.

So I'm sure that'll **** some people off, but I really don't see any other way to explain it.

Edited, Tue Jul 27 12:29:19 2004 by Corosato