New DE Roll OptionFollow

I was checking out the wowhead guide to patch 3.3.0 and I noticed this in the patch notes.


Yes, yes, oh god, yes.

I think this is a pretty awesome idea. I'm getting so tired of the one person who never reads party chat and that greed rolls against me. I once had a group were I had this happen on three different drops and it was a different person each time!

I wonder how the implementation will work. I would assume that the item never goes into the enchanters possession. I wonder if the enchanter can still get skill ups if they are in the level range where that applies? Does this option only show up when there is a qualified enchanter in the group?

As cool as this sounds there are some possible downsides:

If someone changes there mind a second later you no longer have the option of swapping the item.

Often shards are given out equally or to those who don't get gear, now it will be more luck based.

Where does off-spec land? It shouldn't go against need, should it go above vendor/DE?

What do you think?

I'm not a huge fan of the idea.
i didnt find there to be a big problem with the current system
and i think it will hurt alot of Enchanter's ability to make money and lessens the need for enchanters overall

i think it opens too many new issues, messes with too much in the economy, and is just not needed.
my 2 cents

I believe you need an Enchanter in the group to DE it. The option would not appear for a solo or group that did not have the Enchanter Job.




Same response. I think you need an enchanter in the group to do it. So it's not like a BS/Miner can suddenly go run SM and DE all the mats that drop. I think I read somewhere that you must have an enchanter in the party/raid. Which really makes sense - otherwise DE would be more of a passive trait for all toons - rather than an active ability of Enchanters.



Who knows, we'll see.

Overall I like it.

I have an enchanter alt. What a lot of enchanters neglect to recognize is that enchanting is the only profession that comes with a built in gathering profession that makes use of items that everyone gets in the process of questing and/or via random world drops. You have a production profession which, with the addition of Vellum to the game, is just as viable a tool for generating an income via the AH as any other profession. In essence, you get two professions in one. As well, you have one of only three professions that are directly used on a significant and ongoing basis by virtually every end-game character in WoW (the other two being JC and Alchemy).

If anything, this lightens the load on enchanters who can no longer say that they don't want to deal with the D/E bit in dungeon runs because it's a pain in the *** after the run to do the rolls and hand out the shards. Now it's a one-shot deal, done. Yay. That's the only reason I ever kept quiet about being an enchanter when I was doing regular dungeon runs on my hunter. Too many people taking too damn long to roll and/or accept trade requests and/or whatever. The run is over. I'm being a good sport. I want to log off/carry on with the rest of my session. Standing around waiting on you does not appeal to me.

Refusing to D/E because of a concern over what impact it will have on the market is petty.

Gold entering the economy from vendoring dungeon drops is 100% trivial relative to gold entering the economy from quest rewards (especially dailies and other quests done at the level cap). I'd even go so far as to say that on most days, a full spread of Argent Tourney dailies nets me more gold from vendor trash than what I'd get from vendoring a dungeon blue/epic. It's really not a concern.

The concern over what happens if someone makes a mistake and watches the item D/E'd such that it can't be traded to them is also a non-issue. This whole trading of BoP gear for <x> amount of time after receiving it has been more of a headache than anything else. I have personally never seen that feature used for its intended purpose. I'm sure it has been...many times. Usually, however, it's abused all to hell for [Epic] achievements and/or cause for an insufferable amount of sniveling when someone rolled low but really wanted it or couldn't be bothered to pay attention and decided after the fact that, "Oh hey, I do want that after all. Give it to me please." For the most part, people got along just fine with BoP gear binding permanently on pickup.



If the enchanter was given the option to specify which items they wanted D/E'd and they refused to D/E anything, I'd remove them from the group. That BoE green that you're worried about being D/E'd and crashing your market could very well end up shipped to a D/E alt or stockpiled to be D/E'd by a friend of the person who got it. Maybe it would go to a vendor...my first WoW toon was my hunter so I've never vendored a BoE item in the entire time I've been playing the game so I couldn't tell you how many people vendor BoEs and then buy mats for their enchants later on. I do know that if a feature is implemented that makes D/Eing items effortless for the enchanter and they still refused to do it, I'd have no use for them.

Edited, Oct 28th 2009 12:22am by AureliusSir

I'm not that fussed about it to be honest. I tend to do guild runs, so mats usually go to the GB anyway. The odd occassions I do pug a heroic, if i'm the only DE'er, I dont mind DE'ing at the end and letting everyone roll on the shards/crystals. I tend to pass on most stuff nowadays, not much use to me anymore. I still have loads of shards/crystals leftover from levelling and farming heroics at the start of Wotlk, and dusts and essences are a non-issue as well.

To be honest, most people now only do heroics to farm emblems and the gear is only fit for DE. For the levellers and alts trying to get gear, why not just put a NPC in Dalaran who will DE the item for you. All stuff is rolled for as per usual, need/greed, then people can choose what they want to do with items, vendor or DE it. Then it wouldnt matter if there was an enchanter in the group or not.

I think most of you are missing an essential part of the function so let me try to explain in differently;

Need is still priority over greed and DE so the Highest need roll wins;

DE and Greed are equal with no priority over the other, so this is an example scenario, which I have verified on the PTR.

Player 1 rolls greed, Player 2 rolls DE. Player 1 rolls a 78 and Player 2 rolls a 35, Player 1 gets the item not enchant materials since they selected greed.

So you only get enchant mats if no one rolled need, you win the greed roll and you selected DE. In all other cases you will get the item.

As to whether or not if affects the server economy on the cost of materials that enchanters now sell, I am sure there will be some impact but I think it will be minor as enchanters get as much of their mats from solo farming as they do from groups at least for basic materials. Shards will be the largest impact I believe but as noted you still need the enchanter to do the actual enchant.

Will it affect groups, well I think that people will have to ask to roll need for an off-set item before the timer expires or roll need and then pass it if someone else needed it for a main spec. It is hard to make a system that is completely idiot proof or fair in all situations so we will still have to deal with the greedy and immature people.

I think it's alright. Honestly its a hassle to be a party's DE whipping boy. Sometimes I 'forget' to tell a party I disenchant. For the most part besides crystals they're often making nearly as much vendoring the blues as selling the crystals. It's just a pain.

Honestly, I didn't level disenchanting so I could DE for parties anyways, I don't feel like enchanting is being made less powerful, it's still very good.

I love DEing for my party, be it a guild or pug run (yes, I'll pug with alts, not sure if my main will change his mind to get the pug pug though) because I've found that half the time peeps end up getting upgrades and/or don't care about/appreciate the cost of the shards and let me keep them.

I'd say 10% max. I'd venture that the vast majority of guild runs and non-fail pugs already shard gracefully or already vendor, and won't change SOP. Combine that with the supply of enchanters lessening when the greedy/selfish ones - who were "hoping" that the party would "forget" to roll on the shards - all reroll JC or something. Minimal impact...

... especially compared with the current situation, where the MMO-Champion article finally got disseminated to the backwater servers like mine. At the exact same time as the hotfix went live so that DE of "3.5" infinite dust became "between 5 and 7" and DE of "1.5" infinite dust became "2 or 3". In the last two weeks the market-clearing price for infinite dust on my server has gone from 4.2g to 1.7g.

While DE in 3.3 and beyond will be a minimal profit-maker like alchemy unlike the cash cow it was before, random PUG loot rules won't have much to do with that.

Usually I stay quiet, people are entitled to their opinions and can play how they wish. However all other professions have a way to farm the mats they need to level up or to make a piece at will... need leather? go skin it. Need ore ? go mine it. Enchanters don't have this option. They can go quest and get a green here and there as quest reward or farm mobs for greens... but when enchants take 40 infinite dust or dream shards, that isn't all that reliable of an option. So are enchanters more entitled to the drops in dungeons? I don't believe so, however enchanters are entitled to decide if they want to D/E for the group or not.

Now saying that, I used to offer to DE for everyone if everyone passed on items they don't need and pass out the shards/crystals at the end in a fair way (usually use the /roll and the top roll getting crystal next rolls getting shards depending on how many were farmed.) but after joining run after run where people would greed roll against me, I stopped doing this and just sharded my own.

Once 3.3 hits... I don't believe I'll allow my profession to be used unless there is a fair way to do so, if a group wants to kick me, good luck at that. As a tank/healer most groups won't kick me :) and since my wife usualy goes on heroics/raids with me, i won't get kicked (unless I'm in the doghouse that day)
The only reason this is, it annoys me when people will win 2-3 blues and maybe even the purple and not share the loot evenly... I've gone too many dungeons where I don't win anything and others win 2 or 3 drops to vendor. And now that items can be traded, no one wants to pass so I can DE and roll at end. Most think that they should roll greed and whatever items they get, they give to me and I should D/E them for them and give them all the shards crystals... Wrong, if they can't share loot I'm not sharing my profession. Now I know that shards won't be tradable in dungeons when going cross realm, but the chances that the group would do it fairly and use /roll or something to give loot evenly is slim to none, and too much of a headache, so I'll just be a jerk.

At the moment I just need everything in heroics (not greens though), tell the party i'm needing for DE, and collect the item. I wait to roll last to see if anyone actually needs the item, and even if there is a mistake you can pass the item across anyway. At the end of the run there is usually 4-5 Shards including a Crystal (who needs heroic gear nowadays?), highest roll gets the crystal, the rest get the shards. Sometimes people hearth out without collecting their shard from me, bonus for me as I just keep it (occasionally I will post it to them if I'm feeling kind).

Sometimes however it all just seems a chore and people seem ungrateful, in which case I just greed everything and DE my own loot at the end. Intresting thing is, if I DE for the group I nearly always come out with more than if I act 'selfishly' and greed everything, often you can get nothing from the run.

The new system looks good but the one problem I see is that each shard is DE'd and rolled as it is won. This way it is possible for someone to win multiple times. The way I currently do it (shards shared out equally at end) means that everyone gets a shard or crystal at the end of the run rather than perhaps one person getting the majority.

If I'm a leatherworker and I want to be able to farm leather, I have to take skinning. If I'm a JC/BS and I want to be able to gather ore, I have to take mining. If I'm an alchemist/scribe and I want to farm base materials for my profession, I have to take herbalism. Both primary profession slots consumed for the privilege of being able to gather my own materials.

If enchanters want to be able to farm their own mats, they take tailoring. They farm cloth, convert the cloth to greens, and D/E the greens. Any other production profession would work, but tailoring is the one that requires no special gathering skill to gather the raw materials. Enchanters can also make a very substantial amount of gold browsing the AH for cheap greens to bid on, D/E them, and flip the resulting mats for a multiplicative profit. Few other professions can do that.

As much as enchanters have bemoaned their inability to make a profit or skill up their profession in a way that doesn't cost them a fortune, it's not more than a fluff argument. Enchanters are no less greedy than other people when it comes to a chance to make a few quick gold, and that more than any other issue is at the heart of this "concern" over the D/E option in groups.

No other gear augment costs me as much as top enchants on my shaman or my paladin, especially for weapons. That accounts for epic gems, epic leg kits, top tier rep augments, and any other augment you can think of. Enchanters are the ones who stand most able to cash in on that reality, and Blizzard knows it. They also know that the odds of enchanters going into a cross-realm dungeon and agreeing to "Greed" items to D/E only to bugger off with them at the end of the run are unreasonably high. The D/E option is a convenience to enchanters and a measure of protection for everyone else. Nothing more, nothing less.

Enchanters have to depend on RNG for some recipes too. Unless you know how I can go buy Enchant Weapon - Blade Ward, Enchant Weapon - Blood Draining, Enchant Weapon - Mongoose, etc. etc.