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Is this person price fixing?Follow

#1 Aug 07 2008 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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#2 Aug 07 2008 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
Yes. A very cheap (read low down and dirty) way to make gil. Usually people use a mule though and not their ls bank.
#3 Aug 07 2008 at 5:01 PM Rating: Default
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1,100 posts
if there's anyone to get mad at, it's the buyer. Why would the buyer even try to buy it if it's overpriced? If no one tried to buy it and waited for another charm to sell, the price would be the same and he wouldn't be able to sell the peacock charms for profit

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#4 Aug 08 2008 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
I do place some blame on the buyer, though I must admit I have given in as well. But I look at it like this, oftentimes the buyer has no other choice and it becomes you either pay the inflated price or go without for the foreseeable future and for some jobs and some items that isn't a very attractive option. For the buyer it is only one transaction, it's the seller who has the intent to artificially increase the price.

#5 Aug 08 2008 at 9:47 PM Rating: Default
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What a douchebag shell.
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#6 Aug 10 2008 at 12:03 PM Rating: Default
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Byxfluzba wrote:
What a douchebag shell.
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#7 Aug 11 2008 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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o_O / Lyle
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#8 Aug 11 2008 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Byxfluzba wrote:
What a smart shell.
#9 Aug 14 2008 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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I fail to see how buying an item for the price that someone is willing to sell it for and then selling it for what someone else is willing to buy it for is anything other than the way the game economy works.. Dcupps has been doin this for weeks, shout buying currency, then going to Rolanberry fields and bazaaring said currency for a markup.. Alot of people do this with Ancient Beastcoins since their selling price varies from 7k to 10k..
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#10 Aug 14 2008 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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As Redyoshi said, it is a cheap way to make gil, but its not price fixing.

The dates don't exactly follow one another. Just a quick browse shows it runs from Jun. 24, till Aug. 10, 2008, a span of almost 3 months, for a total of 7 sales of PCC.

Now, unless there's more sales prior to June24 2008, I see a net gain of 965001 gil.

If its a price fixing as the OP claims, its a really long delayed attempt.

edited: thanks for pointing it out



Edited, Aug 15th 2008 3:13pm by Floydvman
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#11 Aug 14 2008 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
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41 posts
I apologize in advance, cuz I'm horrible at short posts. If you don't like stories, scroll down a bit.

Some of you know TheMethyloSyndicate, and that Syndicatebank is obviously our ls bank.

Attempted long story, short:
About 3 years ago I came up with the idea that by giving away gil to its members via an ls lottery, I would be able to say TMS was the only linkshell on Valefor that does so. This was all of course part of my plan to make TMS unique and unlike any other shell the server has to offer. Which has been the original plan since it's inception back in 04'.

The Plan:
Ask the LS to donate its garbage to Syndicatebank. Everything from insect wings to grain seeds. After a long **** time = 30k.

The Problem:
Months & months with small yield.

The Solution:
Turn 30k into 35k by investing. Just like the stock market.

Buy Carapace ring +1 = 30k (Going rate at the time.)
Sell Carapace ring +1 @35k.

Weeks/Months later = 60k Bank Balance.

After the rings, it was merman earring +1's.
After the earrings, it was leaping boots.

Lottery works: Approx 600k awarded over time.
Until members started getting upset that new recruits were winning gil then leaving tms.

Yet another fix needed:
Ditch the lotto & use the gil for Dynamis.

Leaping Boots became E.Hairpins >>> O.Kotes + Fuma Kyahan
Combine these profits with synth mats from sky for a couple weeks and voila...

The bank can afford its first Peacock Charm.


---------------- The Facts ----------------

Price fixing? No.
Cheap/low/dirty? No.
A person with something to hide might use a mule? Yes.
Be mad at the buyer not the seller? I'll get to that.
Name calling? Yes, usually from people who have been in some sort of altercation with TMS prior to this post. And I did say usually, y'all know who you are. Otherwise, from just negative people in general. The kind who see something, immediately point out all the negatives, and just ****

-------------------------------------------

Let's be more realistic for a second, shall we?

There really are only two types of people involved here. I guess if you count the bystanders **** three.

The two relavant types however, are those who are patient, and those who are not. Each type can be broken down into subcategories...

Patient Buyers - Those who wait for supply to go up before making a purchse.
Patient Sellers - Those who wait for supply to go down before making a sale.
Impatient Buyers - Those who buy immediately regardless of cost.
Impatient Sellers - Those who want item to sell immediately regardless of loss.

The pros and cons of being each type of person are pretty obvious. But for the sake of argument, I'll point them out.

Patient people pay less then the avg player while making more gil on their sales resulting in a more fruitful playing style. The impatient people basically do the opposite. I lovingly refer to this playing style as "Hemorrhaging gil from every oriface." or "Dumb."

-----------------------------------------------

Now, let's talk for a minute about price gouging.

1) I've never sold for more than highest price still viewable on the in-game sales history menu. Ever.

1a) I tried, it doesnt work. It seems the people who can actually afford PCC's know a thing or two about patience. Try to wrap your head around that one. Wealthy, non-gil buying players having both gil and patience? Prolly just a fluke... And I say "non-gil buying players" cuz you know the gilbuyers would just pay w/e ridiculous price is being asked for anyways. They're smart like that.

On a side note, if price gougers ARE raping gil-buyers on prices? More power to them, I say bleed those **** dry.

2) I've never paid less then what the most impatient seller was asking for.

2a) If you want your item sold within the 3 day window before it gets sent back and costs you even more gil, you had better pick a price associated with supply and demand.

-----------------------------------------------

Regardless of job type or the situation, for an impatient buyer, waiting for the market to change is NEVER going to be an attractive option.

Sometimes you have to pay more for parking if you wanna park closer to your destination. That's reality. And when you bring reality into a game by making it massively played online by real PEOPLE. That's what you get, a more realistic game.

Including realistic supply & demand.

------------------------------------------------

Fact:
Neither the buyer or the seller individually are to blame. They are both people who in their own minds have placed a value on the item. Sometimes that value changes depending on the circumstances of a situation. Circumstances are sometimes uncontrollable and occasionally extreme. This can result in creating a person's perception of value to vary. Even to the extreme.

But, one thing remains certain. You absolutely cannot place blame on one without the other. Which brings me back to my point...

There are three types of people involved here.
1) A patient investor.
2) Lots and lots of buyers with ranging levels of patience and value.
3) Observers pointing out pro's & con's.


I'm sure all of our readers will be able to figure out who is who, by simply reading everyone's posts.

-------------- SHAMELESS PLUG ---------------------------

It takes a patient individual to run a good shell. It takes someone who's realistic, someone who will look at both sides of any situation regardless of bias. Someone who's Innovative, a thinker. Someone who can adapt. Someone willing to accept change and make the very best out of every situation.

The subject title of this thread just oozes controversy. Drama. It screams: "Something worth reading!" Which means free publicity. Lots of it. So thanks for being negative and giving me a chance to speak with an audience.

And that's pretty much turning a frown upside down.

If you'd like to learn more about us and our operation, TheMethyloSyndicate website can be found here.

---------------- THE COMEDY SECTION ------------

Opinions:
Everyone has one even if they are wrong.
Just because a few retarded people say its wrong to slaughter defenseless animals and cook them into juicy, tender, steaks...
Doesn't actually mean its a valid opinion.

~Meth
____________________________
I'm assuming I need to upgrade to put a nice sig here?
#12 Aug 14 2008 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
I apologize in advance, cuz I'm horrible at short posts. If you don't like stories, scroll down a bit.

Some of you know TheMethyloSyndicate, and that Syndicatebank is obviously our ls bank.

Attempted long story, short:
About 3 years ago I came up with the idea that by giving away gil to its members via an ls lottery, I would be able to say TMS was the only linkshell on Valefor that does so. This was all of course part of my plan to make TMS unique and unlike any other shell the server has to offer. Which has been the original plan since it's inception back in 04'.

The Plan:
Ask the LS to donate its garbage to Syndicatebank. Everything from insect wings to grain seeds. After a long **** time = 30k.

The Problem:
Months & months with small yield.

The Solution:
Turn 30k into 35k by investing. Just like the stock market.

Buy Carapace ring +1 = 30k (Going rate at the time.)
Sell Carapace ring +1 @35k.

Weeks/Months later = 60k Bank Balance.

After the rings, it was merman earring +1's.
After the earrings, it was leaping boots.

Lottery works: Approx 600k awarded over time.
Until members started getting upset that new recruits were winning gil then leaving tms.

Yet another fix needed:
Ditch the lotto & use the gil for Dynamis.

Leaping Boots became E.Hairpins >>> O.Kotes + Fuma Kyahan
Combine these profits with synth mats from sky for a couple weeks and voila...

The bank can afford its first Peacock Charm.


---------------- The Facts ----------------

Price fixing? No.
Cheap/low/dirty? No.
A person with something to hide might use a mule? Yes.
Be mad at the buyer not the seller? I'll get to that.
Name calling? Yes, usually from people who have been in some sort of altercation with TMS prior to this post. And I did say usually, y'all know who you are. Otherwise, from just negative people in general. The kind who see something, immediately point out all the negatives, and just ****

-------------------------------------------

Let's be more realistic for a second, shall we?

There really are only two types of people involved here. I guess if you count the bystanders **** three.

The two relavant types however, are those who are patient, and those who are not. Each type can be broken down into subcategories...

Patient Buyers - Those who wait for supply to go up before making a purchse.
Patient Sellers - Those who wait for supply to go down before making a sale.
Impatient Buyers - Those who buy immediately regardless of cost.
Impatient Sellers - Those who want item to sell immediately regardless of loss.

The pros and cons of being each type of person are pretty obvious. But for the sake of argument, I'll point them out.

Patient people pay less then the avg player while making more gil on their sales resulting in a more fruitful playing style. The impatient people basically do the opposite. I lovingly refer to this playing style as "Hemorrhaging gil from every oriface." or "Dumb."

-----------------------------------------------

Now, let's talk for a minute about price gouging.

1) I've never sold for more than highest price still viewable on the in-game sales history menu. Ever.

1a) I tried, it doesnt work. It seems the people who can actually afford PCC's know a thing or two about patience. Try to wrap your head around that one. Wealthy, non-gil buying players having both gil and patience? Prolly just a fluke... And I say "non-gil buying players" cuz you know the gilbuyers would just pay w/e ridiculous price is being asked for anyways. They're smart like that.

On a side note, if price gougers ARE raping gil-buyers on prices? More power to them, I say bleed those @#%^ers dry.

2) I've never paid less then what the most impatient seller was asking for.

2a) If you want your item sold within the 3 day window before it gets sent back and costs you even more gil, you had better pick a price associated with supply and demand.

-----------------------------------------------

Regardless of job type or the situation, for an impatient buyer, waiting for the market to change is NEVER going to be an attractive option.

Sometimes you have to pay more for parking if you wanna park closer to your destination. That's reality. And when you bring reality into a game by making it massively played online by real PEOPLE. That's what you get, a more realistic game.

Including realistic supply & demand.

------------------------------------------------

Fact:
Neither the buyer or the seller individually are to blame. They are both people who in their own minds have placed a value on the item. Sometimes that value changes depending on the circumstances of a situation. Circumstances are sometimes uncontrollable and occasionally extreme. This can result in creating a person's perception of value to vary. Even to the extreme.

But, one thing remains certain. You absolutely cannot place blame on one without the other. Which brings me back to my point...

There are three types of people involved here.
1) A patient investor.
2) Lots and lots of buyers with ranging levels of patience and value.
3) Observers pointing out pro's & con's.

I'm sure all of our readers will be able to figure out who is who, by simply reading everyone's posts.

-------------- SHAMELESS PLUG ---------------------------

It takes a patient individual to run a good shell. It takes someone who's realistic, someone who will look at both sides of any situation regardless of bias. Someone who's Innovative, a thinker. Someone who can adapt. Someone willing to accept change and make the very best out of every situation.

The subject title of this thread just oozes controversy. Drama. It screams: "Something worth reading!" Which means free publicity. Lots of it. So thanks for being negative and giving me a chance to speak with an audience.

And that's pretty much turning a frown upside down.

If you'd like to learn more about us and our operation, TheMethyloSyndicate website can be found here.

---------------- THE COMEDY SECTION ------------

Opinions:
Everyone has one even if they are wrong.
Just because a few retarded people say its wrong to slaughter defenseless animals and cook them into juicy, tender, steaks...
Doesn't actually mean its a valid opinion.

~Meth


Lyle, Byxfluzba, you got owned.
#13 Aug 14 2008 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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87 posts
Methylos wrote:
*Page of text*


This. If you're willing to pay x amount of gil higher than the last few sales of an item, then there will be people that will use this to make a profit. It's supply and demand.
I'm sure there's many of you that have paid more than the old sale prices because there was only 1 of an item in stock, and you wanted it immediately. I myself have done it with scrolls, equipment, food, crafting items... All this is is making profit off of that state of mind.
Besides, I'm sure none of you have ever complained when someone placed an item for action one digit lower than intended! (2000 instead of 20000).
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#14 Aug 14 2008 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
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4,239 posts
Yo are free to do what you want, it's not illegal. Neither is selling gas for $5 a litre in the middle of no where.

And I am free to disagree and consider this an immoral underhanded method.

Sockpuppet. You're a **** and a coward.
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#15 Aug 14 2008 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
Is it moral to take advantage of impatient people?
I think not.

But then again, I also don't think it's immoral to take advantage of
stupid people either.

Regardless, these are my opinions. And above you listed your opinions.

The *fact* is that this is not price fixing.


P.S.
And **** Bix, I still can't believe you outparsed Hito.
____________________________
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#16 Aug 15 2008 at 2:22 AM Rating: Excellent
48 posts
Actually this is not price fixing, to the contrary.
I actually do something similar with other items and when I do notice that Methylos has done this on PCC, I am not quite sure what he does after he buys the PCC, whether he puts it back on the market or not.

If he does put it right away on the Market, one can argue that this lowers the PCC price because for example if there are 2 PCC and Methylos bought 1 for 1.725 million. Then there would be only 1 left. Having only 1 left on the market allows whoever owns that PCC to jack up the price. But if Meth put his PCC back on the market it doesnt allow him to do that. I also noticed that since Meth has been doing this there has not been a time where there is 0 PCC on the market, and even if there is, it was very short. This creates less chance for someone to jack up the price.


So because I agree with what Meth is doing, I would advise not to put that PCC on the market right away and wait for other ppl to raise the price as that would make the price rise faster than if you put the PCC on the market right away.
It is supply and demand theory. If there is more supply meaning more PCCs showing on the AH, the price will be lower.
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BLM75/COR75/WHM38/BST40/etc.
#17 Aug 15 2008 at 2:40 AM Rating: Good
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170 posts
Floydvman wrote:
As Redyoshi said, it is a cheap way to make gil, but its not price fixing.

The dates don't exactly follow one another. Just a quick browse shows it runs from Jun. 24, till Aug. 10, 2008, a span of almost 3 months, for a total of 7 sales of PCC.

Now, unless there's more sales prior to June24 2008, I see a net loss 965001 gil.

If its a price fixing as the OP claims, its a really long delayed attempt.



Cuz you looked at it backwards.. They profitted 965k..
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80RNG 80SAM 76DRK 75THF
#18 Aug 15 2008 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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331 posts
Since when is this price fixing? It's an easy way for low leveled people to make a quick few bucks. It shows the difference between those that can work an economy, and those that failed that class miserably in high school and college.

Edited, Aug 15th 2008 4:21pm by RoidrageFromValefor
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#19 Aug 15 2008 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
41 posts
!!!Long post warning, scroll all the way down to bottom for summary!!!

Immoral and underhanded?

Poor word choice. In fact, way off base. Allow me to explain.

--------------FACTS---------------------
(All of the below information obtained from ffxi-ah.com)
(Price ranges include lowest and highest of the last 25 sales)

Fire Crystal x12: 910g - 1001g
Fluctuation: 9.09%

Emperor Hairpin: 370,000g - 410,000g
Fluctuation: 9.09%

Fire Bomblet: 690,000g - 750,000g
Fluctuation: 8.00%

--------------MORE FACTS--------------------------

1) These are ALL items that are bought/sold at least once a day.
2) These are ALL items I havent purchased or sold for profit.
3) These are ALL items of different price ranges.
4) All of the items vary in price fluctuation by approximately 8.75%

-------------CONCLUSION---------------------------
8.75% is roughly the average NATURAL fluctuation in the AVERAGE price of an item.
-------------EVEN MORE FACTS----------------------------

My peacock charm purchases:
06/24/08 - I bought it for 1,750,000 / I sold it for 1,800,000
06/26/08 - buy 1,700,000 / sell 1,800,000
06/28/08 - buy 1,700,000 / sell 1,800,000
07/09/08 - buy 1,801,000 / sell 1,850,000
07/13/08 - buy 1,800,000 / sell 1,850,000
07/19/08 - buy 1,790,000 / sell 1,850,000
08/01/08 - buy 1,550,000 / sell 1,900,000 (yea, there were 9 for sale @ buy)

The average price variance between my purchases and sales: 5.88%
(yes, EVEN with the big profit one at the bottom)

---------------THE BIG FINISH---------------------------

My purchases and sales are moving the prices of peacock charms LESS than the natural order of the game's own price fluctuation.

Do you think my buyers are walking away feeling remorse?
Regret?
Screwed?
Taken advantage of?

No matter how much it pains you to admit, the answer is no. If anything, they probably feel satisfied. Satisfied that they DIDNT have to pay something OUTSIDE the normal price fluctuation. Whether the person was patient or impatient. Whether the situation was emergency or casual. They @#%^ing paid a fair price buying their merchandise from me.

Price gouging? Immoral? Underhanded?
No, no, and, no.

Genius?
You bet your **** it is.

Proof: 5.88% < 8.75%
------------IMHO-----------------

The only people who see this as a problem are the ones too lazy or too stupid to work something like this out.

Because newsflash!!! I'm not alone. Lots of people do this. Oh, and not just in FFXI either. In real life, they're called banks. (I'm embarrased that I even had to point this out.)

And lastly, for @#%^'S SAKE, its just gil for my shell to do dynamis. Blow me if you have problem with it.

-------COMEDY SECTION------------
Oh and Byx, for the douchebag shell comment...

Your mom called, we're having steak for dinner tonight. She told me to invite you, talk about awkward... Did you know she wears crotchless panties?

Pre-emptive strike:
Don't give me the "my mom's dead" BS.
It's way over used.
And if you're mom really is dead, I'm sorry for the comment. I didn't mean it. It was strictly for the readers' benefit.
But those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Edited, Aug 15th 2008 11:55pm by Methylos
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#20 Aug 16 2008 at 1:58 AM Rating: Excellent
9 posts
All i have to say is way to go Broham on the perfect way to prove yer point. If you dont like the way he is buying and selling items dont buy the items he is selling all Meth is doing is playing a virtual stockmarket. As for the general player of this game being within the age of 13-25 i'd guess you have probably never had or taken the opertunity to invest in anything other than this game or other videogames. Methylos is bing a smart buisness man. People do it all the time now a days especially in the real-estate market as one example. People buy foreclosed homes and fix them up for a small fee which would be the fee of re-posting the item on the AH for this example and then re-sell them for a higher fair market value depending on the consumer. Simple economics for those of you who failed a simple class.
#21 Aug 16 2008 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,622 posts
Methylos wrote:

-------------EVEN MORE FACTS----------------------------

My peacock charm purchases:
06/24/08 - I bought it for 1,750,000 / I sold it for 1,800,000
06/26/08 - buy 1,700,000 / sell 1,800,000
06/28/08 - buy 1,700,000 / sell 1,800,000
07/09/08 - buy 1,801,000 / sell 1,850,000
07/13/08 - buy 1,800,000 / sell 1,850,000
07/19/08 - buy 1,790,000 / sell 1,850,000
08/01/08 - buy 1,550,000 / sell 1,900,000 (yea, there were 9 for sale @ buy)

Edited, Aug 15th 2008 11:55pm by Methylos


You don't have to explain yourself since you're basically just bazaaring with price history, but I do understand your concern to your LS as this was building up heat.

I like everyone to look at 8/1/08 transaction. That was a pretty nice move - netting 350K -AH fees around 17% profit.

But....

look at 7/9/08 & 7/13/08
So 7/13/08
50K revenue - probably 17K AH fee = 33K
/1.85m =

1.8% profit

So there you go. If anyone could do this than anyone would but as it stands this is risky business. It's not like he erased the entire AH history & put it back up for 2m gil. You guys should be thankful. It's really rare you get a long detailed post on how someone makes gil. Just look at my gil making guide. You have to win 8 tough challenges just to read it!



____________________________
December 1, 2008

Premium subscription expired. All challenges & Gil Making Guide have been sealed away forever

#22 Aug 16 2008 at 1:26 PM Rating: Excellent
48 posts
Hey can we start doing dynamis with that money starting after the update ? lol
I want some COR AF2!!!!!!
____________________________
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#23 Aug 16 2008 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
41 posts
Correct, its not like im raking in millions every day by raping people. Just little bitty chunks that add up over time.

And yes, dynamis will commence soon after the update.
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#24 Aug 16 2008 at 10:26 PM Rating: Excellent
*
87 posts
Kittyn wrote:
You don't have to explain yourself since you're basically just bazaaring with price history, but I do understand your concern to your LS as this was building up heat.

I like everyone to look at 8/1/08 transaction. That was a pretty nice move - netting 350K -AH fees around 17% profit.

But....

look at 7/9/08 & 7/13/08
So 7/13/08
50K revenue - probably 17K AH fee = 33K
/1.85m =

1.8% profit

So there you go. If anyone could do this than anyone would but as it stands this is risky business. It's not like he erased the entire AH history & put it back up for 2m gil. You guys should be thankful. It's really rare you get a long detailed post on how someone makes gil. Just look at my gil making guide. You have to win 8 tough challenges just to read it!

Thank you Kittyn for seeing both sides of the argument, and proving the point. =) Everyone has their ways of making gil, and Methylos has just been using a very clever method of doing it. It's not fixing. It's been within appropriate levels of prices, and the only people complaining are those looking too far into this.

Also Meth, I call dibs on Dynamis-San d'Oria!
____________________________
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#25 Aug 17 2008 at 10:49 PM Rating: Good
I'd like a Dynamis-everything o.O I want my TH gloves! (and my Mandau too)

Edited, Aug 18th 2008 2:48am by Brangien
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#26 Sep 01 2008 at 4:26 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,793 posts
XINOSERROT wrote:
Is this person price fixing?


Not according to how SE defines price manipulation. It doesn't appear that person has done anything wrong, unless your telling me some of the other buyers and sellers on that page are his alts.

some other thread wrote:

Quote:
Is it still against the TOS or GM Policies to manipulate prices on the AH? I.E Buy all of a certain item, and then sell it for higher?


Buying an item low and waiting a few days/weeks/months and selling back high: not an offense.

Buying an item, and selling it back and forth between your mules to deliberately manipulate a price by controlling its history*: an offense. Doing it enough to be noticed will result in being investigated, then warned. Repeating after the warning gets you suspended. Keep going after that you get banned. Someone I knew at work in real life kept it up till he got banned.


Its like the stock market. Buy low, sell high, but don't get caught in any price fixing collusion or insider trading, the feds will get you ;p
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