Dynamis and your LSFollow

There were more than 2 LS's that used our calendar weeks before this incident occurred. Last I checked there are 10 distinct LS's that use our Calendar (count them if you like), so don't give me that.

As for the dual runs booked on Tuesday, while I can't directly come out and say anything since I'm not a sack (so I *could* be wrong), we're not crazy enough to want to go to 2 runs at the same time, we just don't have enough people for that to make them more than semi-intelligent half-assed attempts. More than likely it's a screwup on both calendars and we changed from one area to another and forgot to delete the other one.

Dear God, did you read anything I posted? I DIDN'T say that research entailed looking up Dynamis Calendars on GOOGLE. I said that there is a list of LS's that do Dynamis on this very website. I said to open up channels of communication with sackholders from these LS's. Is that impossibly difficult? That's not even asking you to be psychic, that's merely asking that you ASK people who are already doing this. SparkleAndFade is listed, Solstice is listed, etc. etc. etc. They have expertise in this area; can't you ask them? Is that really so difficult?

As opposed to LS's who already have been using a system like this randomly polling LS's and asking them if they want to do Dynamis? Seriously, are you even reading what I said?

I'll be one to agree that the Livejournal post was more than likely not the best way to go about this. It was written in anger, by someone who was frustrated.

However, it's not like we get any respect either. It's happened before that smaller LS's sometimes feel like all bigger LS's are greedy and need to move on, etc. I guess people were just wary that the same thing was repeating itself. Take it with a grain of salt. You ask for respect, but have never given us respect either, it's a 2-way street.

I don't see how sending a few tells ingame is considered such blasphemy that all the established LS's are doing is "controlling the server". Talk to each other.

P.S. I love how I'm getting rated down instantly, even though I'm not flaming nor am I acting with intense animosity. I am simply discussing, so please leave this karma crap out of it. It's getting old. This isn't a popularity contest and karma really makes this thread seem very one-sided, which it's not.

In point of fact DBSDynamis predtes Bedrock's calendar by several weeks. So your point is invalid.

DBS, the original LS has been around for over 2 years.

So you can knock off the 'new' thing. Because if that's the case, then this OLD AND ESTABLISHED LINKSHELL, predates the calendar.

So you can end that argument, it holds no merit.



Fear. You need to lose it because that is by no means the goal here. I can however point to Lemonade sudden decision to do a Sandy run with 4 hours notice as a great example of a LS who IS trying to do exactly that.

Have you LOOKED at the currently posted calendar for Ragnarok at Dynamis Calendar? No runs were changed or dropped or altered, no one lost anything. Infact runs through november have been added for every LS I could find, and from the Tshot Linkshell calendar as well. If the goal were to 'steal' runs, why would so much time be made in preserving as much currently exiting information as possible? Why would a proactive approach be made to insure inclusion? Unlike curent solutions who foster exclusion?




Ash,

just for the record, I dont rate any one up or down. Well, I will rate people up if they contribute something vital or make a highly valid point. Rating down to me seems a bit juvenille.
For what it's worth, my Karma hit 5 in this thread yesterday evening, and was under 2 when I logged on this AM. So its all BS on that score.

I Did listen. it seems to me others aren't.

My issues are not with the concept. I love it. I would not have spent money over a month ago in working out a solution that was viable and fair if I disagreed. Nor would I have spent the past month corosponding with SE on the matter.
But if I can put on my psychology cap for a moment the key issue here is in fact one of control. And if anyone here says otherwise, myself included, they are a liar.

The "big"(and you cant imagine how that cracks me up knowing between my two LS I have over 300 members and am considered 'small') LS all fear new LS because let's face it, its a competition for finite resources. Everyone wants to 'control' those resources to get what they want.
As such, there's going to be conflict. It cannot be avoided no matter the system set up to handle it. Conflict resolution must be the key component to any real solution.


However, conflict resolution should NEVER be handed as it has been to day. Attacks, orders, demands, threats, profanity, abusive comments, and the like foster deeper resentments.

Throwing up a calendar, demanding (and yes I will always use that term because it is exactly what happened to me and others) people blindly take a guess at where it is located and then, worse, demanding people abide by it (again, this is in fact what has happened to myself and others) is no way to put forwards an inclusive resource.

Any LS who has joined that Calendar I would wager has a story similar to mine, or worse. Accepting a condition under threat and abuse is not acceptance, its subserient. And those who are using abuse and threats to get their way know it, even if only subconsciously. No positive ever comes from a negative, abusive begining.

Any true solution has to start with an entirely different mind set than the one playing out here.

Stellar nailed it, though I'm sure his comment was directed at me and in hopes of getting me to back down, its about setting aside pride. But it's those here making the demands that need to set it aside.

Those who consider themselves 'big' or 'important' or 'serious' Linkshells, need to step off the pedestal and come to the table. Not stand loftily above it and demand all others conform (again I will continue to use that word as long as the tone of the majority of posters here convey that attitude). The fact that you refer to yourselves in that manner convey's disdain for anyone else. That's step one.

As I Said, I have 10 steps to make a single resource, a unified resource, an inclusive resource, but as long as this environment persists here, it will remain posted only in my forums where it has been for several days. EVERYONE needs to come to the table. Not "big" or small, but the Dynamis LS of this server. If you segregate as you have done, this is what will ensue and what will develop will be animosity, distrust, and abuse. All you have to do is look at the current state and see it is already happening.

The first thing that needs to fall is pride, then arrogance, then any other sense of entitlement anyone has.

This needs to be handled like Dynamis itself, one team, one goal.


[quote][/quote]

Edited, Tue Oct 25 15:19:33 2005 by airamis

I'm confused... the age of an LS has nothing to do with why you want to make a new calandar so you can get areas that are already taken by other LSs. That's the bottom line of this. It has nothing to do with how old or how big or how influential these LS's are. I've never heard of your linkshell, I've never heard of you... But I'll give you the same respect that I give everyone else. If you had 2 people and an hourglass and you were signed up on the list, I would't have a problem with that.

There is only one possible reason why people wouldn't want to sign up on the established calandar: the dates/times/areas are already taken that that LS wants.

You're making it into something it isn't.

If there's a real reason for changing things that's not for any kind of gain... why is this argument happening?? A calandar isn't biased towards people just because of where it is hosted. I'm not condoning what lemon did if they scheduled just to try to get back at another LS. That's not cool. But it really has nothing to do with disliking a calandar just because the big LSs use it.


Edited, Tue Oct 25 15:16:56 2005 by jezmundNY

Edited, Tue Oct 25 15:34:58 2005 by jezmundNY

your post was edited after I posted my reply, I'm not accusing you of trying to steal the times. If you're puting all the old schedules in, then that's that. Although, this isn't just because of a simple name change, it can't be. There's all this built up animocity that really has no reason to be there. Everyone has a right to do Dynamis. Bedrock set up the calandar just to help people out. It isn't some kind of thing to try to assert dominance over other LS's. Until today I didn't know of any other calandar for dynamises. I don't care one way or another which is used. But, to take a stance against one so strongly just because you don't like the URL that it is at? If the web address riles you up that much, then so be it. Otherwise, give me a valid reason besides the web address for people to stop using the accepted way.

I agree. Sounds good. So I'm still waiting for Lemonade to contact me about their run they scheduled so hasilty at the last moment today. Since we clearly had one posted they were all well aware of.

Communication takes 2.

I'll wait.



I did. I live with a member of Solstice. At the time, no one had heard of anything, or anyone with a solution.

So. 0/2

You are also, very clearly, missing the point.

NO ONE can be omniscient, but open communication. PROACTIVE communication is needed. I'm trying.

I see people being abusive and agressive, and now faltly trying to cause a problem with my LS, I'd say that's not a very good way to be open and communicating. Would you?


Edited, Tue Oct 25 16:20:50 2005 by airamis

Well, I can't speak for Lemonade, but not every Linkshell behaves in that way. Just like you are upset that older Linkshells band all the newer linkshells into "one category", it feels like you are doing the same with all the old Linkshells.

Secondly, yeah I see your point about 2-way communication, and while yeah, Lemonade should contact you, why must both sides be stubborn? I don't get it.



Linkshells had been communicating with each other far before there was a "calendar". And it wasn't just 2 or 3 linkshells, it was around 6 or 7. Bedrock simply made the calendar as a way of centralizing it, that's all.



Why are you acting so smug, trying to "pwn" me on a forum? I'm simply discussing, you on the other hand are turning this into some form of competition, whereby I "lost" the points.

I'm not missing the point. Not every single Linkshell or person behaves in an aggressive manner. Just talk to people ingame. That's all I said, and I will continue to say. If you want to act like there's a chip on your shoulder and that we're all aggressive and out to get the new linkshells, well then I can't really help you.

As well, I pointed out that newer players need to contact the older players. That's proactive communication. If you, for some reason, feel that older players have to actively seek out newer players, wondering if they are going to do Dynamis or not....well...that's not proactive, that falls under the realm of ESP.



Again, while it sucks, and I whole-heartedly agree that you shouldn't be subject to abuse, I still think it's being blown out of proportion on both ends here. Not every single person is that aggressive.

Edited, Tue Oct 25 16:31:24 2005 by Asherek

First, I cant stand 'leet' speak so I would be the last person trying that.

next:



Wait, so when a LS is creted and does a run, and another LS, we'll say an older LS, discovers this LS in Dynamis at a time they had previously wished to enter, that 'older' Ls can't communicate, in a pleasant manner to the leadership of the new LS that some communication between DLS needs to occur.

Or you're ok with the current system of attacks on the new ls, abusive actions, profane livejournal posts, etc. as a way for old LS to teach new LS how not to have an attitude, be offensive and be helpful?

I'm sorry but this is going in circles. How is it ok to expect one group to proactively seek out the other but not have it apply in reverse? Bedrock, and all the other Dynamis LS I have listed have known the existence of DBS and DBSD for nearly 4 months now. And yet, no one attempt to offer inclusion, only abuse, attacks, etc,etc,etc..all I have said before.

So, about 2 days after first being abusively addressed by members of Kuponet (who, for the record I had never heard of until that moment) I made DynamisCalendar.com and started toying with concepts.

Lo and behlod I am told shortly after that some LS called Tshot (never neard of them) and another called Sparkle and Fade (again, never heard of them) had a site that the 2 of them and Kuponet used. So I checked it for run times, and always scheduled mine far away from theirs. ALL 3 LS KNEW OF US at that point. Whats more, Kuponet and Sparkle both had our calendar's URL. In between all the prfanity and order giving one person DID in fact ask for our site so they could avoid conflicts. One person.

Now, lemonade goes out after this topic had turned into a flame war and checks our calendar, and rushes over to the thshot forum and posts a run for 5:30, insuring we either wont be able to get into our scheduled run on time, or due to time contrainsts, at all.

This is acceptable use of a resource? Sounds like an effort to break wills and force compliance. Concepts which I was lead to believe were counter to the entire concept being discussed.

And let's be real honest here, what LS schedules a Dynamis run a mere 4 hours into the future? What am I the only one talking about that fact? Oh wait. I know.... I'm the 'new guy'. I see, its that whole inclusion and proactive thing. Gotcha.

Then you see my point. If I've been on this server for nearly 2 years now, and leading a LS that has never changed its name in all that time, and I have never heard of either of your LS, and you have never heard of mine. Expecting me to come to you and ask questions is asking me ( I say me, but I mean anyone) to be psychic isn't it?

Its not a useless argument, though I find it interesting you will not address my question.

Why is it ok for Kuponet, Lemonade, whatever to be abusive, and profane towards an LS who commited an innocent mistake, but not one of you will step up and admit that Lemonades run that hurriedly scheduled today is, because it's deliberate, as bad or truthfully worse? And I do not speak only of my own exeperiences, at leasts two other LS posted here saying the recieved similar treatment because they didn't know, and one was flamed out at livejournal. Yet no one admonishes a deliberate act?


You blame everything on the new LS, and take no fault for yourselves. Yet here you go, a prime example of why many new LS don't want your help, a great opportunity for the 'established' LSes to stop up and say "if this is wrong for one it is wrong for all" but you won't. You won't admonish one of your own because it puts the onus back on you. You won't live up to your own expectations of fairness and respect, why should others give it to you? Why wouldn't someone be distrustful of you as a group? You have each other's backs it seems. Like Stellar said, pride needs to go.





Edited, Tue Oct 25 17:21:38 2005 by airamis

they did this to us in one week, that´s interesting... god come here and say they dont do that to annoy us

To my knowledge I see no definitive list of Dynamis ls here, they are mentioned in some threads, threads which have sunk into obscurity and probably innaccurate now, given the alarming alacrity with which many endgame ls reform whenever someone screws someone over/steals all the items/runs off with the ls leader's wife etc.

Perhaps that could be addressed and a conclusive list that is updated regularly stickied at the top of this forum?



Correct, there is only one possible reason, no one knew about. Then when they were made aware of it it was accompanied by a string of insults and vulgar profanities. Think Sony might have done better with the slogan "Playstation : omg f*@king buy it now you moron"? Marketing is everything.

If other linkshells don't want to use the well-established calendar at www.tshot.org (this has been active for some 4 months now), then I have little pity for them if they have a run "jacked" because they only live in their own little world.

And it's natural that the leader of DBSDynamis would support their own calendar (which was created ONE WEEK ago, enough of this three-weeks bull), even though there is in fact an established calendar which some 7 or 8 linkshells use and has been being used for at least 4 months now.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense would at least attempt to communicate with the leaders of the established known dynamis linkshells to find out if there were 1) any scheduling conflicts, and 2) if there was a place where people could post to advise which areas they wish to do.

You're correct in that nobody has the "rights" to X dynamis area at Y time, however as with the generally-accepted /random rules at HNM (particularly king HNM) camps, it's not a set in stone rule but it is deemed considerate that you check the known calendar.