Ender's GameFollow

Honestly, it's completely subjective though. For me, the more powerful message was about the methods used to train them, and not so much about their specific ages. Card didn't really dwell on their ages at all and he treated them like adults in the story. If he hadn't actually told you their ages (and IIRC he doesn't say how old the "older kids" are), you would have assumed they were much older than they were, which is why placing them at an age that most people would assume they were based on their maturity level and actions doesn't hurt the story at all. Enders extremely young age almost detracts from the original story because it just seems so unlikely that a kid that young could think the way he does and be as capable as he is.

IMO Ender's age was most relevant in the story because the fact that he was so much younger than the other kids he was competing with and beating (sometimes embarrassingly) was used to isolate him. That factor still works as a story element if you advance him (and the other characters) 4 or 5 years. And it makes the whole thing more believable to a broad audience.



/shrug

To me, it's almost a non-factor. It's not about "working for me. It's that his age wasn't really that big a deal to me. It's more of an add-on factor. The methods they use to train him are the story. That he's so young when they apply them adds a bit of "Geez. That's pretty twisted to do to a kid that age" factor. But I'd say it was a twisted thing to do to a 12 year old too.



Of course. I'm just saying that the age difference doesn't really hurt the story. As long as they include the psych bits, it'll work even with the ages being higher than in the book. The factors you're talking about are more or less the same one's I'm talking about. An author can dream up an exceptional 6 year old capable of thinking tactically and making decisions like an adult, but in the real world, it's unlikely to find a 6 year old actor who can play that character. I'd rather they use older actors who can get the character right (including emoting the effects of the training tricks used on him) than dogmatically stick to the age of the character and fail to get the parts that actually matter right.


But that's just me.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 6:58pm by gbaji

After seeing this thread, I picked up the book. I liked it enough to buy the other three books in the first series. Though I haven't finished reading them all yet, the three later books are extremely different than Ender's game. Still, they're a decent read. Since the details have already been covered, I won't retread, but I will comment on the movie, which I just got home from seeing.

The movie felt rushed, it could have really benefited from being a half hour longer. The bits before battle school take all of ten minutes, and then battle school itself is maybe a third of the total movie length. A lot of the time is spent on the battles at the end, which is very well done, and visually impressive, but was somewhat drawn out. Having read the book, I was never lost during the movie, but there were some bits that I can see not making sense without having read it. The biggest change is that Peter and Valentine are barely in the movie at all, there is no mention at all of Locke and Demosthenes and the movie ends without ever mentioning what happens after the war. Ender gets the egg sac and just takes off in a small ship.

Overall, I liked it, but it could have been better.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2013 7:44pm by Turin

Agreed. Could have been longer and would have worked better. They did get the major bits in though, so it's not like anything important is missing. "Rushed" is right though.



Honestly, I got the opposite feeling. I remember the battles being a much larger component of the book, with a lot more time spent on the details of how he fought, the strategies used, and how it wore him and his team out. In the film, they basically showed one quick battle, then a montage of battles, complete with them ******** up and losing a couple ships. Then the final "graduation" battle. It was really fast and IMO didn't quite hit the same notes as in the book.



No way they could have fit those bits in, and they were actually unnecessary for the core story. IIRC, those parts didn't exist at all in the original short story (and I think he added the whole finding the egg thing in the novelization as well, but I honestly can't remember for sure). He added a lot to the story in order to create ties into his sequel books. The original story was just about his training and winning "the game".


They did get the main concept across properly, but (and maybe I'm just a bit of a purist to the original story here) they changed some key details, which in turn change how the character's actions reflect his personality and motivation. I understand why, and one kinda flowed from the other, and they still worked, but I would have loved it if they'd been able to find a way to stick more faithfully to the original.

Long drawn out examination of the differences follows. Read at your own risk!

SpoilerIn the book, he's told that the Formics are planning another attack on Earth, and he's training to defend them. He's absolutely not told (nor is the reader) that they're actually the ones attacking. The command school was somewhere in our solar system, not way out at some forward base (making the whole "we're just defending ourselves" lie more believable). Also, he was specifically told that the RoE for the MD device prohibited its use against planetary bodies for ethical reasons. It's part of the whole set up for the final battle. He not only believes its a simulation, but that it's an unfair test in a series of increasingly unfair tests. He's frustrated and pissed off about this, and he decides to break the rules and use the MD device to destroy the planet because he sees no other way to win what he sees as a rigged no-win scenario that Rackam has put him against. He fully expects to be tossed from the training program because he chose to cheat, but is so pissed off by then that he doesn't care. Which makes the cheering by the generals more confusing for him, and the reveal that he's just won the war by committing Xenocide that much more of a shock.

The rationale for this is also more clear in the book. Ender is repeatedly protected from the consequences of his actions. He's not told that the two boys he fights with both died. This is why the whole "game" thing is needed. Ender has the killer instinct of his psychopath brother, but the compassion of his sister (which is needed for him to understand the enemy). He will make hard decisions and as long as he thinks it's all a game, they don't bother him, and he can continue. If he thinks things are real, he will fall apart (which he does after Bonzo anyway, despite being assured that he was "sent home", but not told that he was sent home in a box). At least, that's what his commanders assume, so they protect him from what he's really doing. The decision to do what they did works. They also know that the only way to destroy the Formics is to use the MD device on their planet, but they can't order anyone to do that, and don't want to be responsible for the choice. By tricking Ender, knowing his history of breaking the rules to win, they know he'll do what he needs to do while still being able to claim that they told him not to.

In the film, a lot of those aspects were lost. They clearly wanted to include the whole "finding the queen egg" thing, but probably knew they wouldn't have time to do the whole epilogue bits from the book after the war is over. Having the base be on the planet where the egg is, and the clues planted in the mind game, allow them to include that with far less story needed. But this means it had to be a forward base. Which means they had to reveal that they were planning to attack the Formics all along. Which in turn takes away some of the element of shock at the final reveal. I get why they did it the way they did it. And it still worked fine. It just wasn't quite as powerful IMO.

Same deal with their treatment of the MD device. Ender is never told he's not supposed to use it to destroy the planet. And he's actually told that he's training for an eventual attack on the planet anyway. So his use of it makes him less used and more "I would have done this in the real fight anyway". It changes the way his character approaches things, and in some way lessens the impact of his realization of what he's done, and the whole queen egg thing comes out differently as well. Not "worse" necessarily, but just different. Interestingly enough, it makes his choice with the queen more of an act of contrition than it was in the book. In the book he's vilified for what he did, but he really was kinda tricked into it. In the film, he made that choice. They never even had a line of dialogue like "Gee. Should we really be using this weapon on an occupied planet?". It never comes up. So he's a bit more "evil" in the film version I suppose (or more capable of choosing evil knowingly I suppose). Like I said, it works, but it does change things a bit.


Overall, I liked the film. It hit all the needed elements and got the core theme across. I would have liked some of the bits to be more clearly explained, but maybe that'll be in the directors cut.

SpoilerBattle school was located in earth orbit in the book, but Command school was located somewhere hidden on a base they took from the formics even in the book. Ender comments about the tunnel angles being wrong and the lighting feeling "off". it was definitly way outside the solar system which is why the freighter captain they comendeer to travel to the command school after Ender's lake vacation is so pissed about being stuck there in the book. They had the ansible so it didn't need to be close to the front lines, it just needed to be away from earth and where no one could find it for security purposes. The ships used for the final battle were the old ones sent decades ago, almost immidiatly after the end of the first formic invasion. them being so slow and outdated is one of the reasons that Ender gets pissed about the final test being "rigged" There was not a whole lot of detail about any of the battles in the book, but you do get a better sense that there are many more of them, to the point where they start to take a toll on the minds of his subcommanders. Also, they did bean a disservice in the movie by cutting out most of his good bits. I was kind of looking forward to the whole "internet forums take over the planet election post count wins! sub plot there too.

The biggest problem was they cut the epilogue entirely. They didn't show that the Formics knew they had done wrong at the end, and didn't know that humans were individually the same as a queen in their society before then, and that they forgave Ender even though he couldn't forgive himself, etc.

Some of the other things they left in made no sense. Why show the tablet name calling bit in class if they don't take the extra 30 seconds to show that someone notices that Ender's name is immune to it, Also they needed to show the parts where Ender was teaching after hours classes and building his own army essentially before getting offered dragon army. Without that, much of the point of battle school was lost I think.

Overall good movie though, was very rushed, and they did take liberties, but it was watchable

Is this movie worth seeing in a theater?

Or, if I got to the movies this weekend should I see this one or Thor?

(I find Chris Hemsworth to be visually stunning. )