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Star Trek Into Darkness Follow

#1 May 09 2013 at 9:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Just got back from seeing this and am pretty satisfied with it, just that though... satisfied.
It's a good movie, actually a damn good one, but it's really the anti-Trek movie.

If you didn't like J.J Abrams previous outing with the franchise because you felt he "dumbed it all down" then you're sure-as-hell not going to like this one either.
Non-Trek-Fan: 9/10
Trek Fan: 7/10

Certain plot points NEED to be discussed in spoiler brackets for the time being but odds are the whole freaking internet will know by tomorrow.

About the 'Villain': Benedict Cumberbatch IS Khan Noonien Singh, and my god he kicks ass as him.
About the 'Villain's Arc': The story is an interesting spin on the whole Space Seed story from the Original Series. In this altered time line Khan and his people are discovered by Starfleet instead of Kirk. Khan's people are put into cryo-stasis and Khan himself is put to work as a Federation agent with the alias "John Harrison" with the threat against his people looming over his head. Sure enough, Khan engineers a plot to get his own back on Starfleet and more importantly to save his people.

Anyone else seen it yet?
It's probably best to keep plot points in spoiler brackets for the time being.
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#2 May 09 2013 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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I thought this wasn't coming out until next week? Jealous!

I haven't seen Iron Man 3 yet, either. All my friends who are into Marvel aren't local anymore. Smiley: glare

I may just go see it on my own, since I don't really give a damn. Just never quite as fun.
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#3 May 09 2013 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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I also thought this wasn't out til next week. Waiting til then to see both IM3 and this, when I'm hoping they'll be a double feature at the drive-in here (very likely).
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#4 May 09 2013 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
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This is the movie theater I saw it at. Here are the times for it.

Not sure why the UK keeps getting these movies early.
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#5 May 12 2013 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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What exactly do you mean when you call it "the anti-Trek movie"?
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#6 May 12 2013 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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Tatham wrote:
This is the movie theater I saw it at. Here are the times for it.

Not sure why the UK keeps getting these movies early.

Just because, stop drawing attention to it!
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#7 May 18 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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What exactly do you mean when you call it "the anti-Trek movie"?

I haven't seen it yet, just reviews and interviews on it. I was kind of fence sitting on the entire thing. I will toss in spoiler for this next part for those that choose to live in caves.

Basically, what one review said is that the characters have very inconsistent personalities, suddenly shifting to an entirely different personality to fit the moment or mood of a scene. The other, more concerning for me is that apparently JJ told Zachary Quinto that he would be allowed to emotionally grow Spock. That's where I'd think a portion of the anti-Trek idea would come from. The Vulcans were always the cautionary tale of emotions destroying reason which ran counter to the seat-of-your-pants cowboy mentality of Kirk. Really, Roddenbury's original idea for the series was placing Kirk at one end, Spock at the other and using McCoy as the everyman to comment on both sides. It's why often the three were sharing screen time. Plus anytime you play with cannon, you are potentially pissing off the fanbase. I think the entire reboot is anti-oldschool Trek. They want to Michael Bay the franchise, making it about lens flare, bloom, big explosions and make the characters just generic action heroes.

Someone who saw the movie can say if that's accurate.
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#8 May 18 2013 at 11:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Major spoilers within, do not open unless you want to know, But essentially my thoughts, having seen it today, are below:


Ok, so I saw this today. It's a good action movie. It's even a good Star trek movie, but it's not a "great" star trek movie, which is what it needed to be when they are bringing in Kahn as the bad guy. I was really hopeing that was actually a red herring, but thats exactly what they did, and they didn't pull it off. Not for lack of trying or talent, Benadict cumberbach (sp???) was believable as Kahn from the old school first encounterish time frame. Not bitter at kirk for anything, so no need for the animosity there, and there were aspects of the character as written that worked well and were believable. But the writing, and the major glaring plot flaws throughout the movie really detracted from what it should have been.

I agree 100% with the inconsistant personalities. The personalities are especially damning because they deviate from the established characters so sharply. Yeah, new timeline, I get it, but new timeline or no, Kirck isn't going to become an angst ridden emo @#%^ at the drop of a hat. The end reactor scene with Spock and the "car chase" (which by the way as someone with an aeronautical background, I am offended that the speeds they were apperently traveling didn't at least ruffle their clothes, let alone not throw them off the ass ugliest ship whateverthehell it was that starfleet ever built) was completely out of character, out of character development, and really didn't mesh well.

The sets, especially the parts that took place inside the national ignition laboratory, were cool. Cudos to the effects people and the set designers.

The plot and directing though, were kind of a train wreck. The initial premise of Kirk getting demoted, kahn kills pike, and then kirk chases after him? Ok, I can see that. The fact that Old spock didn't tell starfleet about kahn and they just happened to find him in a local system when Kirk didn't discover him until deeper into the 5 year mission? Plot hole. The fact that some supposedly lesser crew managed to subdue and gainfully employ Kahn for at least long enough to complete an enterprise B class starship (even though it turned out to not be that kind of) without him killing all of them? disservice to the character of Kahn and another plot hole. Then there is the whole torpedo thing. If admiral crazy mcwarpants knows Kahn's people are in there, why send them all? why not save a few in reserve somewhere as leverage just in case? And if these torpedoes are gutted and have their power plants removed, why would kahn leave the warhead and risk killing his own people? And what would fireing a gutted proton torpedo even do? since the launchers can fire inert coffins I'm assuming some sort of mass driver for the initial launch, and then the power plant of the torpedo would either accelerate it, or all that mass was simply the warhead. And why couldn't scotty just 3D image the things from the outside? The whole not being able to open and service an inert torpedo didn't really ring true either, since you want to be able to easily open and fix a faulty warhead before you fire it, and no one is going to try and open one after you fire it. Kahn booby traps? I dunno. But that brings back the whole Kronos thing. So Kahn thinks his people are all killed, and he shoots up the captains meeting and then flees to Kronos. Ok, sure. but why, with so many known out of the way, not heavily patrolled by the most paranoid warlike race in the quadrant planets, would he ever go there. Unless he was acting under orders from the admiral, but by that point he thinks his people are all dead so why comply? If he doesn't think they are all dead, why make such a stupid gesture of shooting up a meeting of a few officers? this is Kahn Noonan Singh, he would have arranged to blow up the entire fleet or something if he had that much time and inclination.

The secret hidden warship part also didn't ring true to the series. Starfleet has always been about having well armed, highly technologically capable warship explorers. There would be no reason to not outfit the fleet with the biggest, meanest, scariest weapons they could make, as they have done throughout star trek. An admiral who thought he faced an inevitable war wouldn't cripple his fleet by only upgrading the one ship, and after the romulan time travelers, they should have been upgrading everything anyways even without old spock's help.

The reversal at the reactor in the end, Spok shouting "Kahn" and kirk getting cured by magic kahn blood transfusion was really kind of hokey. i get what they were going for, but that needed to be in a later movie, which they clearly left it open for. Also, mccoy doesn't understand the cryo pods, but he manages to put Kirk in one and get him back out? What happened to the Kahn peoples that he just yanked out of that particular pod? Did they just toss that one in the morgue freezer and hope for the best?

Oh, and how the hell did Kahn beam Kirk and friends into the Brig? the one place on the enture ship physically shielded so that no one can beam in or out in the event of a power loss to prevent I dunno, people escaping the brig using easily available technology? And how the hell does one "confiscate" a transwarp equation once Scotty saw and understood the concept to the point he couldn't reproduce it?

I dunno, the action was good, but there were a lot of plot inconsistancies. and then the other war enterprise crashing into an entire city, destroying multiple city blocks of skycrapers, and no one seeming to realize the lame "9/11 lets crash a flying thing into a buildings lol111!!!" stupidness that will ensue from that, or the fact that it didn't even seem to register as a point worth mentioning in the wrap up, just bugs me. I wanted to like this movie, i really did, but I think the part that pisses me off is I can see what it should have been, and what it wasn't. Kahn kept getting his ass handed to him not becaue of bad luck, but because of poor planning and failure to allow for contingancies. Whcih isn't Kahn at all. Kirk kept getting the drop on Kahn "Stun him right away as soon as you get to the bridge, etc." realizing his duplicity before the trechery was revealed, etc, when Kahn was proven prior to this movie to be equal, or better than Kirk in some strategic areas. Then once Kahn had controll of the war-enterpriseB or whatever it was called, and then no repeat of an enterprise vs. reliant ship dual, except this time Kahn had the bigger ship, was just kind of tragic.

Thats my take on it at least. I'd go see it once in theater, I'll probably watch it again in home release, but I don't think I'd go see it again in theater.
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#9 May 19 2013 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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What Kao said.
#10 May 19 2013 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
It's the Iron Man 2 of the Star Trek reboots. Entertaining, with a couple of geeky easter eggs sprinkled about. Still too much lens flare, though.
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#11 May 19 2013 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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I completely disagree. Honestly, I find that the big personality issues people are having are definitely rooted in the fact that these aren't the characters from the original series. They're an alternate version of them.

To be honest, I never felt like anyone was out of character. OOC relative to the original series? Sure, of course. But that's the point, this isn't the original series, and their characters have to be relative to the personal history of these alternate versions.

Angsty Kirk made absolute sense in the movie. Pike, his replacement father figure/savior (and the man who had stuck his neck out for him multiple times over), was just murdered. He was handed a mission he KNEW was outside Starfleet's code, and he knew that all those advising him not to follow it were completely right, emotionally and rationally, in doing so. But that was his own turmoil, and the writing suited that.

And I don't think them discovering Khan was a plot hole. My understanding from the movie was that, unlike the original series, these missions into the unexplored sectors of space had been jump started by the Romulan incursion. Instead of the Starship Enterprise's 5-year mission being the first major mission to search out new life, they were aggressively launching smaller missions to sure up their territory and search for technologies.

And Khan was never discovered in some remote, unexplored area of space. At the beginning of Space Seed, Spock notes that there haven't been any federation flights into the area in some years. That notes that it's charted territory. As the Enterprise's original mission brought them in and out of Federation space, I'm going to guess that Khan's ship was actually firmly within their own territory. Hell, I'd say it's highly unlikely that they had drifted into uncharted space with only 300 years at non-warp speeds. That part of the plot doesn't bother me at all.

I AM suspect of the ability of a member of Starfleet to be able to build a secret ship assembly plant specifically to design and build dreadnoughts. But I'm willing to pass that up for the moment.

And that brings me to the other critique I want to address - the idea of building a single military ship. I think that probably makes perfect sense, to be honest. For one, Klingon vessels of the time were not technologically superior to Federation ships at all - their strength was their ability to cloak and hide from sensors, enabling them to use guerrilla tactics. A single super-powerful dreadnought could realistically have been more than enough to tip the scales in this situation. You force the klingons to declare war, and completely shut down their initial assaults with that ship, forcing them to draw back and enabling your side to rapidly advance. With warp capabilities, that single dreadnought could have held their homeworld hostage.

And never once in the movie did anyone argue that federation ships weren't well equipped with the best weapons, they argued that ships weren't designed solely for war. And they weren't. These were vessels that housed families, scholars, diplomats. They were exploration vessels. An actual instrument of war would have been vastly more efficient, cutting out all the excess of a traditional starfleet vessel. Think about the sheer number of non-essential crew a starfleet housed, if you limit its purpose to war. They most certainly were not war vessels. Hell, half the episodes of the Original Series and (particularly) TNG had plots specifically revolving around ways to save the crew in military situations.

And I can't agree about Khan not planning for contingencies. I don't feel like Kirk EVER got the drop on Khan in the film. My impression was that Khan was expecting a double cross, and played along for superior positioning to take the bridge. Khan had the reigns for most of the movie, subtly manipulating everything as he went along.

I thought it was obvious that this wasn't a Kirk vs. Khan movie, it was a Spock vs. Khan movie. Right down to Spock being the one to scream Khan's name instead. And I thought that was great - it's was a perfect twist to make the story new and interesting. So much of Spock's traditional development was a struggle of self in light of what was going on around him, while Kirk reacted to it. This movie reversed that dynamic - Kirk was the one lost in his own head, and Spock was having to emotionally react to situations as they arose. I loved it.

My favorite part of the movie was still the prime directive plotline from the beginning, though. Made me quite happy.


I'll almost certainly see it again in theaters. Maybe I'll notice more inconsistencies this time around, but I honestly had no problems with any of the character development or plot.
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#12 May 19 2013 at 9:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd agree with most of what Kao said, especially the stuff regarding Kahn. I can overlook some stuff, but Kahn was always touted as perhaps Kirk's greatest foe, because he is the one being that completely outmatched Kirk in just about every way. I just didn't get that from this movie. I did appreciate the parallels and interesting twists on the original, but I also felt that they went too far at some points. Overall, it was a movie worth watching and I was entertained, but as Kao said it had so much more potential.
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#13 May 19 2013 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
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I just don't see why that's important to be honest. We've already had that movie. I'm so happy they didn't just try and recreate the original with better effects and new actors.

I want to see what happens in this entirely new timeline with characters whose personal experiences and development have been seriously changed. I want to see how Kirk's radically different personal history changes, and how that carries through to influence those around him - in his command or otherwise. I want to see how Spock, who was always most likely to connect to Jim emotionally than anyone else, reacts to a Kirk who is far more wild and jagged than the original series' Kirk. And, likewise, I want to see that jagged, wild Kirk grow.

I loved seeing Spock get such an extroverted role in the movie. To me, it made perfect sense. Sure, it wouldn't have made sense if you just spliced in the Original Series' Spock, but I have no problem with that. And the scene between Kirk and Spock after the reactor stuff had me crying.


Honestly, I went in terrified, and came out extremely happy. The only major critique I have is that the ending was too abrupt.
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#14 May 20 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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I quite enjoyed it. Smiley: tongue
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#15 May 20 2013 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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My biggest question is still why almost every character in the movie (including the goddamn Klingons) had bright blue eyes.
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#16 May 20 2013 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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They're part of Abrams' vision of the Master Actor Race.
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#17 May 20 2013 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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Because they whitewashed Khan and this was their way of pretending like that was just a universal feature?
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#18 May 20 2013 at 9:48 PM Rating: Default
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Just saw it. Meh. Seems like they are going to redo the old stories with more sex and 'splody stuff. The characters are grossly underdeveloped and flat compared to the originals thus far. Also, I think Ricardo Montalbán was a much better (and hotter) Khan. Though, that being said, Alice Eve is a much hotter Carol Marcus, so I guess it all evens out.
#19 May 21 2013 at 2:16 AM Rating: Excellent
Here's a pretty hilarious "Spoiler FAQ" from the io9 guys.

Quote:
How does the movie start?

Well, with Kirk and Bones @#%^ing with a planet of primitive aliens. They steal some kind of holy scroll, and then get chased through a red jungle.

Seems like kind of a dick move.

Well, it’s not very clear, but ostensibly they’ve stolen the scroll to get chased, in order to draw the aliens away from a volcano that’s about to explode.

Okay, that seems reasonable.


Except that 1) when the volcano erupts, it’s going to kill everybody on the planet, so it hardly matters where they are, and 2) Spock is getting dropped down into the volcano to set off a cold fusion bomb.

Wait, what?

Yeah, he sets off the cold fusion bomb and all the lava freezes.

You know cold fusion isn’t actually cold, right? It’s only “cold” in the sense that opposed to regular fusion it’s not a bazillion degrees hot.


Huh.

And did you say Spock was in the volcano? Why the hell didn’t they just beam the bomb in there?

Um, something about the planet’s magnetic field. Although they do beam Spock out of the volcano just a few minutes later, so…

And why did Spock have to go with the bomb to set it off? Are you telling me in the 23rd century that people don’t have a way to detonate bombs remotely? That’s stupid.

Well —

And why the @#%^ is the Enterprise just carrying around a cold fusion suitcase bomb anyways?


Look, you’re getting very upset, and this is just the first scene of the movie.


Smiley: lol

Edited, May 21st 2013 4:18am by Omegavegeta
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#20 May 21 2013 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah. You know how the first movie was all about Kirk’s journey from a rebellious kid to a more mature leader of men?

Yeah?

Well, we’re doing that again!


Smiley: lol
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#21 May 21 2013 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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#22 May 21 2013 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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Sounds about right.
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#23 May 27 2013 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just saw it. Never saw much of the original series. Thoughts:

1. It was a good action flick. Truthfully, I enjoyed it more than the first "new" film.
2. Either ST fans will love the new timeline changes, or abhor them. Judging from some of the reactions on here, it seems choice number 2 is pretty popular.
3. Lens flare. Seriously... just... lens flare.

I went in expecting it to be pretty poor, but was pleasantly surprised that it was pretty good.
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#24 May 27 2013 at 8:56 PM Rating: Good
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You say lens flare, but it's more just lots of lights. Not as much flare.
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#25 May 27 2013 at 11:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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The one that got me was "when did warp engines start emitting magic blue pixie dust?" Does that count as space pollution?
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#26 May 28 2013 at 4:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh, one other thought - I cringed every time "red shirt" was mentioned. Only happened two or three times, but each time I went "Eek, goodbye." Never happened though Smiley: lol
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#27 May 28 2013 at 6:34 AM Rating: Good
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Oh, one other thought - I cringed every time "red shirt" was mentioned. Only happened two or three times, but each time I went "Eek, goodbye." Never happened though Smiley: lol


Heh, I enjoyed the couple nods they made to that, but was glad they didn't actually go through with it.
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#28 May 28 2013 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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The one that got me was "when did warp engines start emitting magic blue pixie dust?" Does that count as space pollution?
Only if it's composed of theta radiation.
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#29 May 28 2013 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly, my Star Trek experiences are limited to the newer movies (TNG timeline), so I don't really care if it stays true to every bit of the canon lore or not, as long as the movie delivers entertainment. I mean, sure, if they altered core elements of the lore, like what's up and down, etc., but I don't care much about minor things like personalities being out of sync with the personalities in the original series. Like someone pointed out: this remake takes place in an alternate universe with an alternate timeline. Fans of chaos theory would probably argue that the alternate universe is too similar to the original one.

As for the lens flares, I read somewhere that Abrams realized he overdid it on the first movie and was going to tone it down on the second. Sounds like it didn't happen? Not that I mind - I kind of liked it.

Anyway, looking forward to it. Been a while since we had a good sci-fi flick - not counting Iron Man 3.
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#30 May 28 2013 at 7:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Go rent Star Trek II, the wrath of Kahn, and watch it. yes, right now. Just that one, don't need to worry about any of the others, and you don't need to have really watched any of the old ones. Go ahead, we'll wait.

...

Ok, all done? Now compare that to Star Trek, into darkness.

When you are done weeping for humanity, come back and tell us what you think.
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#31 May 28 2013 at 10:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Go rent Star Trek II, the wrath of Kahn, and watch it. yes, right now. Just that one, don't need to worry about any of the others, and you don't need to have really watched any of the old ones. Go ahead, we'll wait.

...

Ok, all done? Now compare that to Star Trek, into darkness.

When you are done weeping for humanity, come back and tell us what you think.


I actually rewatched it this weekend on a whim. Just as good as I remembered.
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#32 May 30 2013 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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The problem, Kao, is that I'm not a purist. I find the old movies incredibly cheesy and toe-curling at times. I've watched my share of the old series and it was just painful.

That being said, I'll watch Wrath of Khan before watching Into Darkness.
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