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#152 Aug 06 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
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Pretty sure it's through the staff; cause if I remember correctly vampires are evil aligned no matter who they used to be, and all their healing spells turn from "Cure" to "Inflict". Only if Durkon finds a way to be classed neutral will he be able to convert one of the inflict spells back into a cure spell.

That's an undead thing moreso than just an evil thing, right? Because Redcloak drops healing magic like it's going out of style.


Durkon can use healing magic, he just has to prepare it now.

Good clerics in this version of D&D don't have to prepare their cure spells because they can change almost any level spell into a cure spell. Evil ones can't and Neutral ones have to make a choice when their character is created. So going Neutral isn't good enough because Neutral can do either or and it is ALSO dependent on their god -- he'd have to somehow be good again under a good/neutral god in order to force it to flip to Cures again. A Neutral cleric under an Evil god is still forced to only choose inflict. Durkon didn't realize this until he tried to "cure" Roy with Inflict Moderate Wounds because he has poor knowledge about how his class abilities work outside of what he's already used.

Edit: He would have had to prepare Heal anyway since the word "Cure" isn't in that spell name.

Edited, Aug 6th 2013 1:39pm by Ravashack
#153 Aug 06 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I guess the question is whether undead (vampires specifically) play by different cleric rules than rank-and-file evil clerics. Don't ask me, I stopped playing with 1st edition.
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#154 Aug 06 2013 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I guess the question is whether undead (vampires specifically) play by different cleric rules than rank-and-file evil clerics. Don't ask me, I stopped playing with 1st edition.


As far as I am aware, no, they don't. You can summarize 3rd Edition as everyone's the same, only different. I think the only Good undead is in Forgotten Realms territory.
#155 Aug 06 2013 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not super aware of how cleric spells work in 3.5 D&D (although I did play NWN, so there is that). If you recall, Durkon had memorized some summon spells to help protect the gate (part of "the plan). They were going to summon some celestials or something. When he turned evil, he's summoning some kind of devil instead. I'm assuming that's somehow related as well.

So does he lose access to certain deity specific spells? Like his old standby "Thor's Might". Again, not sure how D&D clerics work, especially when it comes to alignment changes. Back in my day, clerics just had cleric spells. None of this whole worshiping a deity thing!

/waves cane!
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#156 Aug 06 2013 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I'm not super aware of how cleric spells work in 3.5 D&D (although I did play NWN, so there is that). If you recall, Durkon had memorized some summon spells to help protect the gate (part of "the plan). They were going to summon some celestials or something. When he turned evil, he's summoning some kind of devil instead. I'm assuming that's somehow related as well.

So does he lose access to certain deity specific spells? Like his old standby "Thor's Might". Again, not sure how D&D clerics work, especially when it comes to alignment changes. Back in my day, clerics just had cleric spells. None of this whole worshiping a deity thing!

/waves cane!


If his god is no longer Thor, then he loses Thor's Lightning and Thor's Might, yes. Although they could just as easily be different names for a generic spell.
#157 Aug 06 2013 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Back in my day, clerics just had cleric spells. None of this whole worshiping a deity thing!

/waves cane!

I remember there were rules/suggestions that evil clerics "naturally" cast the reverse versions of spells (Cause X Wounds, Darkness, Spoil Food/Water, etc) and had to make a special plea to their deity to cast the "good" version just as good clerics had to have exceptional reason to plea for the "evil" versions. This always struck me as exceptionally lame since, if I was some evil deity, I'd want my clerics out there keeping the armies of darkness in peak fighting condition instead of acting like some half-assed armored wizard.


Edited, Aug 6th 2013 5:57pm by Jophiel
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#158 Aug 06 2013 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Back in my day, clerics just had cleric spells. None of this whole worshiping a deity thing!

/waves cane!

I remember there were rules/suggestions that evil clerics "naturally" cast the reverse versions of spells (Cause X Wounds, Darkness, Spoil Food/Water, etc) and had to make a special plea to their deity to cast the "good" version just as good clerics had to have exceptional reason to plea for the "evil" versions. This always struck me as exceptionally lame since, if I was some evil deity, I'd want my clerics out there keeping the armies of darkness in peak fighting condition instead of acting like some half-assed armored wizard.


Edited, Aug 6th 2013 5:57pm by Jophiel


Unless your army consists of mass zombies...
#159 Aug 06 2013 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Ravashack wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Back in my day, clerics just had cleric spells. None of this whole worshiping a deity thing!

/waves cane!

I remember there were rules/suggestions that evil clerics "naturally" cast the reverse versions of spells (Cause X Wounds, Darkness, Spoil Food/Water, etc) and had to make a special plea to their deity to cast the "good" version just as good clerics had to have exceptional reason to plea for the "evil" versions. This always struck me as exceptionally lame since, if I was some evil deity, I'd want my clerics out there keeping the armies of darkness in peak fighting condition instead of acting like some half-assed armored wizard.


Unless your army consists of mass zombies...


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#160 Aug 08 2013 at 5:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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So Durkon is taking this well...

Not exactly a crisis of faith or horror at what you've become, huh?
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#161 Aug 08 2013 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
Logically, it's a curable condition. Not to mention that Vampirism comes with its own plethora of bonuses, which would be pretty handy when going up against an epic-level Lich sorcerer.

Some notable ones from the wiki, which we can assume Durkon now has fairly safely:

  • Children of the Night (Su): Vampires command the lesser creatures of the world and once per day can call forth 1d6+1 rat swarms, 1d4+1 bat swarms, or a pack of 3d6 wolves as a standard action. (If the base creature is not terrestrial, this power might summon other creatures of similar power.) These creatures arrive in 2d6 rounds and serve the vampire for up to 1 hour.
  • Dominate (Su): A vampire can crush an opponent’s will just by looking onto his or her eyes. This is similar to a gaze attack, except that the vampire must use a standard action, and those merely looking at it are not affected. Anyone the vampire targets must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the vampire’s influence as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 12th). The ability has a range of 30 feet.
  • Energy Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a vampire’s slam attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess) gain two negative levels. For each negative level bestowed, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points. A vampire can use its energy drain ability once per round.
  • Alternate Form (Su): A vampire can assume the shape of a bat, dire bat, wolf, or dire wolf as a standard action. While in its alternate form, the vampire loses its natural slam attack and dominate ability, but it gains the natural weapons and extraordinary special attacks of its new form. It can remain in that form until it assumes another or until the next sunrise.
  • Damage Reduction (Su): A vampire has damage reduction 10/silver and magic. A vampire’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
  • Fast Healing (Ex): A vampire heals 5 points of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed. (It can travel up to nine miles in 2 hours.) Any additional damage dealt to a vampire forced into gaseous form has no effect. Once at rest in its coffin, a vampire is helpless. It regains 1 hit point after 1 hour, then is no longer helpless and resumes healing at the rate of 5 hit points per round.
  • Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4. As an undead creature, a vampire has no Constitution score.
  • Skills: Vampires have a +8 racial bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks. Otherwise same as the base creature.
  • Feats: Vampires gain Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, and Lightning Reflexes, assuming the base creature meets the prerequisites and doesn’t already have these feats.


The only question is what's going on with the coffin situation. He's going to need one, most likely. Can any old coffin work?

The only thing really standing in the way of Durkon returning to life is tracking down a cleric powerful enough to cast a Resurrection spell (Raise Dead won't work). Theoretically, Durkon would need to commit suicide or be slain, and then killed once more after returning to his coffin. Running water/sunlight wouldn't work, as that would completely destroy his body and make returning to life only in the realm of a Wish/Miracle or a True Resurrection. After being killed in the coffin, they would have a body to work with eligible for a Resurrection spell, bringing Durkon back to life in a non-Vampirised state.

A pain in the *** and a long workaround, but Roy went through similar sh*t trying to get resurrected.

Edited, Aug 8th 2013 7:49pm by IDrownFish
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#162 Aug 08 2013 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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I doubt that will happen. Otherwise, he wouldn't be responsible for that doom he's supposed to bring to his homeland.
#163 Aug 08 2013 at 6:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Logically, it's a curable condition. Not to mention that Vampirism comes with its own plethora of bonuses, which would be pretty handy when going up against an epic-level Lich sorcerer.

Sure, but this is Durkon we're talking about Smiley: grin
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#164 Aug 08 2013 at 7:08 PM Rating: Decent
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On the plus side:

  • Skills: Vampires have a +8 racial bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks. Otherwise same as the base creature.

  • So, less of this

    Edited, Aug 8th 2013 6:08pm by gbaji
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    #165 Aug 09 2013 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
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    Jophiel wrote:
    [link=http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0909.html]

    Not exactly a crisis of faith or horror at what you've become, huh?
    Simple logistics.

    Lol, @ "stabbytown".
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    #166 Aug 09 2013 at 7:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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    Being changed from a lawful good cleric into an evil undead creature "...bits of skin and bone and dark energy glued together by magic into the shape of a man" is a bit more than "simple logistics".

    Remembering back to when Durkon offered to slay/resurrect Malack and Malack refused saying he had no desire to return to that life, I'm thinking the transformation to undead (and evil) comes with its own shift in attitude. Durkon is obviously more powerful now and I doubt his undead evil mind would bother entertaining the same idea that live, lawful good Durkon once had.
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    #167 Aug 09 2013 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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    Yeah, his shift towards evil would probably make him want to keep any power he has, but at least he'll probably stay lawful, right?
    #168 Aug 09 2013 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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    IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
    The only question is what's going on with the coffin situation. He's going to need one, most likely. Can any old coffin work?

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    #169 Aug 09 2013 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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    The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
    Yeah, his shift towards evil would probably make him want to keep any power he has, but at least he'll probably stay lawful, right?

    You know who else was Lawful Evil and then designed a plan to commit genocide using specially prepared buildings for mass executions?

    Malack
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    #170 Aug 09 2013 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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    Jophiel wrote:
    The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
    Yeah, his shift towards evil would probably make him want to keep any power he has, but at least he'll probably stay lawful, right?

    You know who else was Lawful Evil and then designed a plan to commit genocide using specially prepared buildings for mass executions?

    Malack


    I honestly thought you were going to say Tarquin.
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    #171 Aug 12 2013 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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    #172 Aug 12 2013 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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    And really, who hasn't wanted to ride a Tyrannosaurus?
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    #173 Aug 13 2013 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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    lolgaxe wrote:
    And really, who hasn't wanted to ride a Tyrannosaurus?


    Pssst! It's a Triceratops.
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    #174 Aug 13 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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    I think he was referring to the theropods (Allosaurus?) on the flanks, actually.

    Edit: Looking at the comic, those are pretty large so I guess maybe they are tyrannosaurs.

    Edited, Aug 13th 2013 3:10pm by Jophiel
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    #175 Aug 14 2013 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
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    Jophiel wrote:
    I think he was referring to the theropods (Allosaurus?) on the flanks, actually.
    Triceratops are like the Jurassic Park version of the Prius.
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    #176 Aug 15 2013 at 3:42 AM Rating: Good
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    Book 2 - Epilogue 1 for Erfworld in video format.
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