So back in high school I'm pretty sure some english classes were required to read Ender's Game. Mine was not one of these.
I decided to pick it up 2 weeks ago and was incredibly surprised and excited at how good it was. There wasn't a doubt in my mind that I would read the rest of the books in the Ender "Saga." Speaker for the dead delivered and kept me on my toes just as I had hoped it would. The next book is Xenocide but sadly it was checked out of my University's library and never returned.
I have been told to read "Dune" or dunes since I liked the Ender books. Does anyone else wish they were Ender or am I just crazy? (>_>)
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Ender's Game was a competent little Sci-fi, but I don't know why so many people go nuts over how good it is. But many people do.
I can, however, see why a lot of soldiers, and other armed forces personnel would be deeply moved by it as a parable of their own experience of war, specifically over young naive people being taken advantage of and lied to by commanding officers, and also over the issue of "good guys" and "bad guys" turning out to be not so much the case, or not as simple as that, once you learn more about a situation.
However, those are really old and obvious concepts to me, and they are not something with great continuing emotional resonance with me because I haven't had difficulties specifically like this in my own life. I didn't have a deep emotional reaction to this book, and I wasn't particularly grabbed by the writing style or anything else. I haven't bothered to read the rest of them.
I did have a friend who hated Ender's Game because "Children don't talk like that." I argued against him over that issue, because I remember what it was like being a bright young child, and very intellectual in my interests well before I was 10. I'm not saying I was on that level, of course, and I wouldn't have spoken "like that" exactly. But I was fully capable of a myriad of adult concepts at that age. In my own way, at that age, I had many ways in which I was immature and retarded for my age, and many ways in which I was extremely advanced maturity wise. I don't know how far-fetched the children are, as against "real" genius level children, but I was certainly happy with the children being as they were as part of a literary device.
I can, however, see why a lot of soldiers, and other armed forces personnel would be deeply moved by it as a parable of their own experience of war, specifically over young naive people being taken advantage of and lied to by commanding officers, and also over the issue of "good guys" and "bad guys" turning out to be not so much the case, or not as simple as that, once you learn more about a situation.
However, those are really old and obvious concepts to me, and they are not something with great continuing emotional resonance with me because I haven't had difficulties specifically like this in my own life. I didn't have a deep emotional reaction to this book, and I wasn't particularly grabbed by the writing style or anything else. I haven't bothered to read the rest of them.
I did have a friend who hated Ender's Game because "Children don't talk like that." I argued against him over that issue, because I remember what it was like being a bright young child, and very intellectual in my interests well before I was 10. I'm not saying I was on that level, of course, and I wouldn't have spoken "like that" exactly. But I was fully capable of a myriad of adult concepts at that age. In my own way, at that age, I had many ways in which I was immature and retarded for my age, and many ways in which I was extremely advanced maturity wise. I don't know how far-fetched the children are, as against "real" genius level children, but I was certainly happy with the children being as they were as part of a literary device.
I loved Ender's Game when I first read it but found the rest of the series to be less interesting. But if you liked both books, you should like Xenocide.
As for Dune, I'll just say the first book was good and the rest were terrible. I dislike his writing style.
As for Dune, I'll just say the first book was good and the rest were terrible. I dislike his writing style.
I liked Dune best of all of them... If you have to read more than just the first one, I'd go with the first three. After that they really took a dive as far as I was concerned. So much so that I didn't read any of the later ones, especially the co-authored ones.
Yeah, I highly recommend Dune. If nothing else, it's a fantastic world/universe creation. It's such a shame the rest of the series is somewhat problematic.
I have some reservations about Dune as a novel, but they are sort of overshadowed by how important Dune is in the Sci-fi cannon. It's like one of those must-reads...even if it isn't great literature.
Edited, Aug 29th 2008 12:27pm by Aripyanfar
Yeah, I highly recommend Dune. If nothing else, it's a fantastic world/universe creation. It's such a shame the rest of the series is somewhat problematic.
I have some reservations about Dune as a novel, but they are sort of overshadowed by how important Dune is in the Sci-fi cannon. It's like one of those must-reads...even if it isn't great literature.
Edited, Aug 29th 2008 12:27pm by Aripyanfar
Quote:
If you have to read more than just the first one, I'd go with the first three. After that they really took a dive as far as I was concerned. So much so that I didn't read any of the later ones, especially the co-authored ones.
I'ld advice reading the first four, those are really tied together by the main characters and storyline. You could easily stop after those four and get a sense of completion.
After that, things change rather drastically imo.
The co-authored books were pretty bad, the first trilogy (or the House books) were fairly decent but the Legends trilogy was truly awful. (imo naturally) In a way I am happy they also wrote the final parts of the series, although I'm not all that certain if it's the way Frank Herbert would have ended it himself. It just doesn't fit, Frank Herbert pretty much wrote the book from almost one person's perspective or two max with only one really major one, with references to side events that will affect that person naturally. The books written by Brian Herbert and Anderson changed that dramatically by flooding the books with tons of characters.
The Dune trilogy is well worth reading although the 2nd book is weak compared to 1 and 3.
The 4th book of the Dune "series", God Emperor of Dune, should have been condensed to a single chapter at the end of the 3rd book and the subsequent Dune novels should never have been written.
Frank Herbert should have stuck to his guns and stopped at book 3 instead of caving into the fans who howled for more Dune.
The 4th book of the Dune "series", God Emperor of Dune, should have been condensed to a single chapter at the end of the 3rd book and the subsequent Dune novels should never have been written.
Frank Herbert should have stuck to his guns and stopped at book 3 instead of caving into the fans who howled for more Dune.
Donbayne 100 Rng - Uinian 100 Dru - Breru 100 Sk - Nyenie 82 Brd - Ruusan 76 Clr - Braru 75 Mag - Syqen 100 Shm EQ Stromm/Luclin
The Ender's Quadrilogy (Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind) are an excellent read, but Children of the Mind takes you into psycho-surreal-like-whoa a bit. The plot of it is a fascinating idea but sounds kinda like something someone on acid would come up with. If you can't cope with that it might put you off, I really liked getting to complete all of the characters that had developed through Speaker for the Dead and Xenocide though.
Definitely also read Ender's Shadow, if you liked Ender's Game, as it follows Bean at the battle school and gives another look at what went on during those days. I don't know that I'd follow up with the rest of the Bean series (Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets), because the other two kind of force you to reconcile a part of the universe that Card had already "settled" in the other 4 books; you're following Bean on his return to earth after the conflicts, and life under Peter the Hegemon.
I've received more good than bad commentary on them, but I tried reading them literally right after the Ender quad and just couldn't get into it. Once I've been away a little while I might think differently.
If you like sci-fi that touches on the theological (like Ender's universe does), then also make sure you check out Starship Troopers (and the book is nothing like the movie, and for the better; don't walk in prejudiced toward it if you've seen the film).
Edited, Dec 19th 2008 5:25pm by Norellicus
Definitely also read Ender's Shadow, if you liked Ender's Game, as it follows Bean at the battle school and gives another look at what went on during those days. I don't know that I'd follow up with the rest of the Bean series (Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets), because the other two kind of force you to reconcile a part of the universe that Card had already "settled" in the other 4 books; you're following Bean on his return to earth after the conflicts, and life under Peter the Hegemon.
I've received more good than bad commentary on them, but I tried reading them literally right after the Ender quad and just couldn't get into it. Once I've been away a little while I might think differently.
If you like sci-fi that touches on the theological (like Ender's universe does), then also make sure you check out Starship Troopers (and the book is nothing like the movie, and for the better; don't walk in prejudiced toward it if you've seen the film).
Edited, Dec 19th 2008 5:25pm by Norellicus
Yeah, the first 3 Dune books are all you need, then Herbert went crazy...
The House and Butlerian Jihad prequel books are pretty good also.
The House and Butlerian Jihad prequel books are pretty good also.
Ender's game is in my opinion the best Sci fi book ever written, IF you are aged range 14-18.
When I was that age it was utterly compelling and absorbing, the way Dune could never be.
I'm older so I have found other better written books but none so perfectly in sinc with my mindframe as Ender's game was to my 15 year old self.
Dune has remained rubbish and will continue to be so, I've always hated pretentious ******** and Dune firmly fits into that mold, alongside Terry Brooks, personally I would rather watch Eastenders than read either.
When I was that age it was utterly compelling and absorbing, the way Dune could never be.
I'm older so I have found other better written books but none so perfectly in sinc with my mindframe as Ender's game was to my 15 year old self.
Dune has remained rubbish and will continue to be so, I've always hated pretentious ******** and Dune firmly fits into that mold, alongside Terry Brooks, personally I would rather watch Eastenders than read either.
Dune and Terry Brooks in the same sentence?
If it weren't for the artwork of the Hildebrandt brothers, Terry Brooks would only be famous amongst his family and close friends because his writing fails.
The sand on Dune has more personality than any characters Brooks wasted ink on and as for story a more gripping tale can be found on any tube of Polident.
Since I'm desperately looking for something new to read, Ender's Game sounds good but hopefully the author isn't milking the story dry with a multi-book series (sounds like it is tho)
If it weren't for the artwork of the Hildebrandt brothers, Terry Brooks would only be famous amongst his family and close friends because his writing fails.
The sand on Dune has more personality than any characters Brooks wasted ink on and as for story a more gripping tale can be found on any tube of Polident.
Since I'm desperately looking for something new to read, Ender's Game sounds good but hopefully the author isn't milking the story dry with a multi-book series (sounds like it is tho)
Donbayne 100 Rng - Uinian 100 Dru - Breru 100 Sk - Nyenie 82 Brd - Ruusan 76 Clr - Braru 75 Mag - Syqen 100 Shm EQ Stromm/Luclin
Donbayne wrote:
Dune and Terry Brooks in the same sentence?
If it weren't for the artwork of the Hildebrandt brothers, Terry Brooks would only be famous amongst his family and close friends because his writing fails.
The sand on Dune has more personality than any characters Brooks wasted ink on and as for story a more gripping tale can be found on any tube of Polident.
Since I'm desperately looking for something new to read, Ender's Game sounds good but hopefully the author isn't milking the story dry with a multi-book series (sounds like it is tho)
If it weren't for the artwork of the Hildebrandt brothers, Terry Brooks would only be famous amongst his family and close friends because his writing fails.
The sand on Dune has more personality than any characters Brooks wasted ink on and as for story a more gripping tale can be found on any tube of Polident.
Since I'm desperately looking for something new to read, Ender's Game sounds good but hopefully the author isn't milking the story dry with a multi-book series (sounds like it is tho)
Not really. Each book stands remarkably well on its own, but if you're the curious sort then he gives you just enough incentive to want to read the next part of the saga to continue those trailing elements. It's not like your average ****** superhero movie where they leave it completely open-ended like "oh yeah we're totally making a sequel to this".
IMO, anyway.
Ender's Game is probably my favorite sci-fi book of all time. I also greatly enjoy the entire series, and the Bean parallel series. One thing a lot of new readers of Orson Scott Card do, though, is go from Ender's Game to Speaker and the rest expecting it to be similar as far as action is concerned. Then they complain about how dull the rest of the books are. But if you read more of Card's stories, you realize his stories are character stories. It's not really so much about who kills who and does what, but what those characters go through as the events unfold. I think that's probably why he's one of my favorite authors. His characters are more real than those of most books I read. There's thousands of stories out there about swords that hack and slash and guns that blow crap up, but precious few about truly interesting characters and how they evolve and change as time goes on.
As far as Dune goes, I read the first three books but never finished the fourth. It's been a few years, but I do think it was because I began to lose interest in the series, although I can't remember any details of what was happening when I stopped.
edit: wow, I just now realized how old this thread is.
Edited, Dec 25th 2008 4:52am by Siesen
As far as Dune goes, I read the first three books but never finished the fourth. It's been a few years, but I do think it was because I began to lose interest in the series, although I can't remember any details of what was happening when I stopped.
edit: wow, I just now realized how old this thread is.
Edited, Dec 25th 2008 4:52am by Siesen
Quote:
Definitely also read Ender's Shadow, if you liked Ender's Game, as it follows Bean at the battle school and gives another look at what went on during those days. I don't know that I'd follow up with the rest of the Bean series (Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets), because the other two kind of force you to reconcile a part of the universe that Card had already "settled" in the other 4 books; you're following Bean on his return to earth after the conflicts, and life under Peter the Hegemon.
this ^
I've read all of the Ender books, favored the Bean storyline most.
As far as Dune goes, the first book is awesome and they go downhill from there.
If you want a character-driven intense sf series, try the Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold (yea i liked it so much that was my name in ffxi for years, and here)
In the back of her books, theres a guide that tells you which story is next in line.
When I was a kid, my mother handed the first book to me & said "here, this is you, its about a hyperactive kid named Miles" which is my real name.
Quote:
wow, I just now realized how old this thread is.
Doesnt matter how old a thread on books is, still good to share.
Ender's Game and Xenocide were fantastic, as was Ender's Shadow. The other books in the Ender and Shadow series were "pretty good".
I've also read many of Card's other books.
The Tales of Alvin Maker: read the first 2 or 3 out of 7 in the series, they weren't bad.
Pastwatch - The Redemption of Christopher Columbus: a very good book, one of Card's best novels IMO. It's about a group of scientists who time travel back to 1492 to try to stop Columbus from discovering America.
Magic Street - pretty good, but more geared towards teenagers. It's like a modern retelling of A Midsummer Night's Dream.
Treason - it's a revised edition of A Planet Called Treason, which was Card's second novel. A worthy sci-fi jaunt.
Empire - an exciting action novel, but not a very good political novel. It has a good message about the Left and the Right and their collective shunning of moderates, but it's a bit heavy-handed.
Maps in a Mirror - The Short Fiction of Orson Scott Card: This, I think, is Card's finest work. It is a collection of nearly every worthy short story he's written, and many of them are highly entertaining and moving. I definitely recommend this.
Another plug for Maps in a Mirror - the compilation I got had ten great essays by Card that explored his writing style and the inspiration for many of his works. It's rare to be able to see the inner workings of an author's mind like that. It also includes the original "Ender's Game" novella, on which the full book is based on (it's about 50 pages long).
Edited, Jan 5th 2009 9:54pm by Makaro
I've also read many of Card's other books.
The Tales of Alvin Maker: read the first 2 or 3 out of 7 in the series, they weren't bad.
Pastwatch - The Redemption of Christopher Columbus: a very good book, one of Card's best novels IMO. It's about a group of scientists who time travel back to 1492 to try to stop Columbus from discovering America.
Magic Street - pretty good, but more geared towards teenagers. It's like a modern retelling of A Midsummer Night's Dream.
Treason - it's a revised edition of A Planet Called Treason, which was Card's second novel. A worthy sci-fi jaunt.
Empire - an exciting action novel, but not a very good political novel. It has a good message about the Left and the Right and their collective shunning of moderates, but it's a bit heavy-handed.
Maps in a Mirror - The Short Fiction of Orson Scott Card: This, I think, is Card's finest work. It is a collection of nearly every worthy short story he's written, and many of them are highly entertaining and moving. I definitely recommend this.
Another plug for Maps in a Mirror - the compilation I got had ten great essays by Card that explored his writing style and the inspiration for many of his works. It's rare to be able to see the inner workings of an author's mind like that. It also includes the original "Ender's Game" novella, on which the full book is based on (it's about 50 pages long).
Edited, Jan 5th 2009 9:54pm by Makaro
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