Global warming is a crockFollow

Devil-tongue,


The Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine is, according to their website, "a small research institute that studies biochemistry, diagnostic medicine, nutrition, preventive medicine and the molecular biology of aging."

Not exactly what you would call relevant in the climate change debate, is it?

Or is it because I left out the part that says they also market a home-schooling kit for "parents concerned about socialism in the public schools", and which promises to "Teach your children...to acquire superior knowledge as did many...in the days before socialism in education".

Hmmm.

Then you talk about Father & Son, Arthur Robinson and Zachary Robinson (22 years old when he signed the petition).

They are quite famous for signing the anti-Kyoto petition and publishing a book about it. The dad is also famous for being a Christian Fundementalist, and of course being an expert on "research on protein chemistry and on nutrition and predictive and preventive medicine", as it says on the OISM website.

So an "expert" on climate change? The guy who writes about vitamins and nutrition?

Come on man, even Gbaji is more challenging than this...

"Carbon dioxide emissions: Volcanoes also emit carbon dioxide (CO2), a greenhouse gas, which has a warming effect. For about two-thirds of the last 400 million years, geologic evidence suggests CO2 levels and temperatures were considerably higher than present. One theory is that volcanic eruptions from rapid sea floor spreading elevated CO2 concentrations, enhancing the greenhouse effect and raising temperatures. However, the evidence for this theory is not conclusive and there are alternative explanations for historic CO2 levels (NRC, 2005). While volcanoes may have raised pre-historic CO2 levels and temperatures, according to the USGS Volcano Hazards Program15, human activities now emit 150 times as much CO2 as volcanoes (whose emissions are relatively modest compared to some earlier times)."

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/pastcc.html#causes
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html

Volcanoes are not a constant addition to C02, they blow up and then they stop. This is a flawed argument.

I <3 the internet

True Neutral druids unite!

Cite?Which 1% are you talking about?

The one single thing that made me interested in the whole man-made/caused global warming debate in the first place was this -

Every time I would hear an item on the news, or read something in the papers about 'global warming', I was always told as fact that CO2 emissions were rising in the atmosphere causing it to retain the heat that was being radiated from the sun. What finally occured to me as the reason that 'something was a bit odd about this' was that CO2 is heavier than air.

The molecular weight of air is 29. The molecular weight of CO2 is 44. If CO2 wasnt as heavy as it is compared to air, fire extinguishers wouldn't work. (CFC's mw. is 100).

CO2 dissolves in seawater. (I even remeber hearing about some hare brained scheme to pump CO2 into the seabed somewhere to 'store' it).

So, bearing that in mind, it would be reasonable to question the theory that CO2 in the atmosphere is rising 20 miles up to get above 99% of the atmosphere and significantly increasing the constant water (mw 18)-vapor-dominated greenhouse cover.

In fact 99.9% of all the world's CO2 is at ground level or below, 71% being dissolved in the oceans.

So, that was my initial concern over this CO2 causing global warming argument in the first place.

If that bit of basic science was being ignored by the experts, why on earth should the rest of their theories and scary predictions be any more correct.

If you are going to try and predict the long term outcomes of a complicated system, such as global warming trends, using shonky initial data, then your equations, and following predictions are going to be worse than useless.

A self-correcting system. This is the stance that I've been trying to push. It's like the theory that some species can spontaneously change gender when one becomes extinct to further the species. Or if one species of animal gets wiped out, another evolves or adapts to fill its niche in the ecosystem. Large-scale freezings or meltings can develop conditions which would eventually reverse the situation.

pausol,



I sincerely doubt the scientists are so stupid as to not consider the tides when measuring sea levels.

All these measurements may seem small, but it's a chain reaction effect. That's what some people are trying to prevent at the moment. The signs are here. They're undeniable. The only question is whether it's because of us, or not. And on that point, it is so much safer, cheaper and healtier to assume it is. If we act early, we can prevent it from ******* us up, or at least delay it.

The alternative is to do nothing, and wait for the **** to hit the fan. That's usually how the human race works: do nothing, wait for the catastrophy, and then play the blame game. And if the people who don't want to act win this debate, then its likely that's what will happen.

I can't understand your position, to be honest. Even if global warming is not man-made, wouldn't it better anyway to change our way of life a little in order to make the planet cleaner? How can it be a bad thing to lower carbon emissions, and for people to become more conscious of the environment?

It's my previous point again.

If we act, we win whether global warming is man-made or not. Its a win-win situation.

If we don't, we either win nothing, or lose everything.

It's as clear-cut as a transparent emo.

My ideas are rather eloquently put forth by one of the greatest minds of the twentieth century.

We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these fucking people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the fucking planet?

I'm getting tired of that shit. Tired of that shit. I'm tired of fucking Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world save for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a shit about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are fucked. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!

We're going away. Pack your shit, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.

You wanna know how the planet's doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet's doing. You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.

The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...asshole.

So, the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now. And I think that's begun. Don't you think that's already started? I think, to be fair, the planet sees us as a mild threat. Something to be dealt with. And the planet can defend itself in an organized, collective way, the way a beehive or an ant colony can. A collective defense mechanism. The planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet? How would you defend yourself against this troublesome, pesky species? Let's see... Viruses. Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And, uh...viruses are tricky, always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps, this first virus could be one that compromises the immune system of these creatures. Perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus, making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along. And maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction.

Well, that's a poetic note. And it's a start. And I can dream, can't I? See I don't worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron...whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while.

What he says is funny, but it's not serious.

Assuming the planet will do just fine on its own, just because, is not a great policy.

A lot of the things he says are true, notably the scale of human existence in comparaison to the planet's, but his conclusions are just silly. Which is fine, since he's a comedian.

Seriously though, eventhough the theory that the planet is an organism on its own, the Gaia theory, is great, it doesn't mean it's a conscious organism that can fight off everything it creates. If we try hard enough, and we are trying pretty hard, we can kill this planet.

Not only that, but complaining that humans are only concerned about themselves and their habitat, is not that incredible. The opposite would be a lot weirder.

The main problem is that global warming is not affecting us directly yet. Therefore, most people are a bit "meh". but, if most scientists are right, by the time it affects us directly we'll pretty much be fUcked. Not only that, but "us" acting is only half the problem. The other half comes from China and India, and that's a whole new kettle of fish.

From what I heard, Islamic terrorists will force us all to convert to Islam which is good because it'll free up the churches for gay marriages until 7:30pm, at which time they'll convert the altars over to abortion tables. The White House will be turned into Section 8 housing for welfare queens and illegal immigrants will be flying the Mexican flag over Congress. Also, they'll cancel Christmas.


Hey, I too can make up overblown crap when I don't have any real factual arguments!

Not all that cryptic but I'll translate for you.



That an accurate translation, Joph?