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#577 Sep 05 2009 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
Kiki has a better memory than me when it comes to events that happened years ago. When I told her the stuff Miracles was saying this is what she came up with why she thinks Miracles believes I was ever in his LS.

Tsakiki wrote:
Hmm, I was reading your post's /tell pictures, and was thinking it was Miracles' shell that we did two runs with in Snakes. One was a Windy for the flag, and the other was a Bastok, where they left after getting the flag, but that was the run where someone dia'd the slept mobs on the first post-boss pull to MPK Snakes. That was the event that actually led to me quitting Snakes, as I got in a huge fight with Metah (one of the other SHs) because of it.

Maybe from those two joint runs he thinks you were in his shell? Snakes never merged with DS.


I don't remember this, maybe I was there. I quit FFXI while I was in Snakes at one point, so its possible that these 2 runs happened when I wasn't playing FFXI, I don't know for sure. Either way - your linkshell teaming up and MPK'ing another startup linkshell is not a "linkshell merger" you ****.
#578 Sep 05 2009 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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423 posts
Arkanna wrote:
It's important to remember that while Vicious as a whole is seen in a very negative light (mainly due to the circumstances of how they arrived on Lakshmi to begin with, as well as their ****-poor behaviors under Euphoria's leadership), some of their individual members are good people. The same can be said of every linkshell on Lakshmi.


I posted this earlier in the thread, and it's still true. SoullessSoldiers has its good people (Iamjobe, Ezzelin to name two) but they are drug down into the mire because of dumb sh*ts like Holman and Miracles.

Ezzelin, what Dynas said is right. You're an articulate, intelligent person and you could do much better for yourself.

Edited, Sep 5th 2009 12:46pm by Arkanna
#579 Sep 05 2009 at 2:59 PM Rating: Default
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376 posts
The Glorious Secretkeeper wrote:
See, this is an example from where certain linkshells gain their notoriety. When they enforce a very simple rule, i.e. turn up for three runs and it's all fair game, and then try to layer that with a sackholders' discretion vote, it can very easily be misconstrued as favouritism.

Seeing as this is one of the foremost complaints people have about SS, is it really any wonder when you try to enforce two mutually exclusive linkshell reward systems at the same time?


Aside from this instance occurring in 2007, DS had -- as of a few months later in 2008 -- a 'lot if you can wear it, one relic per run' rule.

---

Dynas did not perform well in Dynamis. Three months of bad work and an entitlement attitude did not inspire confidence in me, as a sackholder and shell co-leader. I'd ask current company to respect that assessment and be politely skeptical about both Dynas and myself. It is only my word against his, etc.

Dynas was clearly inaccurate about his assessment of his own attendance. He was a member of the shell for three months, not two (although he was effectively present for only two/three months as far as runs went) ... and his attendance was by no means exemplary.

He did not attend every run for which he had access, nor did he ask me to ask another shell to take him through cities to get Northlands access in a more timely manner -- schedules permitting.

I can only do what other people ask me to do, and because Dynas had never talked to me previously about his concerns, I can only say that they have appeared 'after the fact,' so to speak. It's a generally poor and unjust argument against DS all the way around -- especially when I was one of four/five sackholders that would have been happy to listen to grievances BEFORE the run and not after an item had dropped.

I always stress that I can't do anything about problems that aren't brought to my attention. And worse -- keeping concerns to oneself does no one any good. People aren't happy when they feel slighted, and leaders aren't happy when people don't follow instructions. Good sackholders work to manage these problems.

If anything, Dynas was a victim of his own silence -- not a hypothetical conspiracy designed to keep him from obtaining relic.

---

To clarify: 'Three runs and you can lot' does not mean that you are indefinitely guaranteed that right to lot (particularly if you've missed a lot of runs, etc.). Miracles provided the capital for the Dynamis runs. DS was run and continues to be run by Mir + a group of sackholders (myself included).

---

Keep in mind that all of this occurred before SS's/DS's general points, attendance, and policy overhaul. Miracles was not the sole leader of DS dynamis at that time, and certainly not the only enforcer of policy. The shell of 2007 and the shell of 2009 are radically different places. I'm proud of the policy changes since then, and I'm pleased overall with the shell's current direction.

--

I'd like to hear about any recent complaints. I was part of the group that overhauled SS's previously abused point system into a bid system. We keep separate points for separate events, and favor those who do the camping/legwork of camping HNMs as the recipients of the resulting drops (i.e. want Ace's? camp KV).

There are always -- and will always -- be disagreements. But I like to think we have about average, and perhaps even fewer than average as compared to similar linkshells.

---

As many people have pointed out previously in this thread, they like to play with their friends to enjoy the game. SS was my social shell before it was my endgame shell. In my honest opinion, I can do no better than to enjoy XI with some of my oldest in-game friends.

I've known Miracles and Mesiah for most of my XI career. SS continues to be my social/endgame shell of both choice and habit. To be brutally honest, I've been an SS sackholder so long that I can't even imagine being 'new kid on the block' in another linkshell ... nor do I imagine I'd enjoy playing if I had to constantly explain my erratic RL schedule. ._.;

I'm playing with friends who know me, after all.

Edit: Spelling.

Edited, Sep 5th 2009 7:13pm by Ezzelin
#580 Sep 05 2009 at 3:09 PM Rating: Default
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376 posts
VawnLakshmi the Great wrote:
Kiki has a better memory than me when it comes to events that happened years ago. When I told her the stuff Miracles was saying this is what she came up with why she thinks Miracles believes I was ever in his LS.

Tsakiki wrote:
Hmm, I was reading your post's /tell pictures, and was thinking it was Miracles' shell that we did two runs with in Snakes. One was a Windy for the flag, and the other was a Bastok, where they left after getting the flag, but that was the run where someone dia'd the slept mobs on the first post-boss pull to MPK Snakes. That was the event that actually led to me quitting Snakes, as I got in a huge fight with Metah (one of the other SHs) because of it.

Maybe from those two joint runs he thinks you were in his shell? Snakes never merged with DS.


I don't remember this, maybe I was there. I quit FFXI while I was in Snakes at one point, so its possible that these 2 runs happened when I wasn't playing FFXI, I don't know for sure. Either way - your linkshell teaming up and MPK'ing another startup linkshell is not a "linkshell merger" you ****.


I think I heard about this -- from Miracles, no less -- after the fact. Interesting you should mention Metah! He's one of the original members of my first social shell, and I was very sad when I'd heard that he was quitting.

So! It's certainly possible that some snakes members filtered over to DS after they broke, but I doubt anything like a formal merger took place.

From what I understand, the sackholders had chat filters on and no one was sure who had done the DoT'ing. I am able to say with confidence that no MPK was planned by either shell. DS was just as disgusted by it as SoaD.

Was Tienria the leader/schedule person for that shell, by any chance? o-o? Bear with me, this was a while ago.
#581 Sep 05 2009 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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937 posts
Quote:
To clarify: 'Three runs and you can lot' does not mean that you are indefinitely guaranteed that right to lot (particularly if you've missed a lot of runs, etc.)

wat
#582 Sep 05 2009 at 6:05 PM Rating: Excellent
Ezzelin wrote:
Dynas did not perform well in Dynamis.


No u! Honestly, every crony of Miracles thus far has said my Paladin is crap in some shape or form like it's going out of style, give it a rest already.

Quote:
If anything, Dynas was a victim of his own silence..


There were no problems with the shell leading up to this point in Dynamis-Windurst so there was nothing to complain about. Honestly this whole thing is being blown way out of proportion. So I'll simplify:

Keeping in mind attend 3 runs you can lot rule, I show up for Windurst with more than 3 runs under my belt. Valor Leggings drop. I lot. Here's the important part:

Miracles and the apparent leadership decide to favor someone they like with what I might mention is an unimportant piece (Valor leggings is a macro piece only for crying out loud). They tell me to pass, I don't quoting the fact that they are in fact disregarding their own 3 lot rule they set up. I win lot much congratulations all around in /tells. Leadership is butthurt.

Honestly I don't even really care anymore, and neither should anyone involved, because the whole point of even bringing up this event from years past is that Miracles favors his friends with complete disregard to any rules. That was the entire point, and thankfully that point has been accepted by the entire server.
#583 Sep 05 2009 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
Ezzelin wrote:
To clarify: 'Three runs and you can lot' does not mean that you are indefinitely guaranteed that right to lot



Huh? So is this a clever advertising ploy to get people to join up, so you can, for lack of a better term, use them to get you "favorites" their gear? Sounds awful shady to me.
#584 Sep 05 2009 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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383 posts
Tritant wrote:
Ezzelin wrote:
To clarify: 'Three runs and you can lot' does not mean that you are indefinitely guaranteed that right to lot



Huh? So is this a clever advertising ploy to get people to join up, so you can, for lack of a better term, use them to get you "favorites" their gear? Sounds awful shady to me.


Well, I can understand not granting the right indefinitely, as it could lead to situations like what Valdan pulled in that other shell where you show up for your three runs, are gone for months, then show up and try to lot saying "lol I had my three runs." But that would be something that should be stated in the rules clearly, of course, and wouldn't apply to Dynas for the pants in this specific case.

That, of course, is assuming no blatant favoritism, which is pretty much the only thing I knew about Miracles & his shell before this whole thread anyway.
#585 Sep 05 2009 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
drachechan of the Seven Seas wrote:
Well, I can understand not granting the right indefinitely


Right, but apparently his lack of city flags was counted against him, which is silly in my opinion.




Edited, Sep 5th 2009 11:46pm by Tritant
#586 Sep 05 2009 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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383 posts
Tritant wrote:
drachechan of the Seven Seas wrote:
Well, I can understand not granting the right indefinitely


Right, but apparently his lack of city flags was counted against him, which is silly in my opinion.


For sure.
#587 Sep 05 2009 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,767 posts
Ezzelin wrote:
Dynas did not perform well in Dynamis. Three months of bad work and an entitlement attitude did not inspire confidence in me, as a sackholder and shell co-leader. I'd ask current company to respect that assessment and be politely skeptical about both Dynas and myself. It is only my word against his, etc.

While politely stated, I cannot honor your request. In my old Dynamis shell I ran dozens of runs with Dynas, and not once did I ever see sub-par performance from him. In fact, he was highly praised by the members.

Ezzelin wrote:
Dynas was clearly inaccurate about his assessment of his own attendance. He was a member of the shell for three months, not two (although he was effectively present for only two/three months as far as runs went) ... and his attendance was by no means exemplary.

He did not attend every run for which he had access

According to your post containing the schedule, Dynas only missed a single run in 3 months to zones he had access to, and was either absent or late for one more. That's above-average Dynamis attendance in my experience.

Ezzelin wrote:
nor did he ask me to ask another shell to take him through cities to get Northlands access in a more timely manner -- schedules permitting.

Ezzelin wrote:
If anything, Dynas was a victim of his own silence

I've been in 4 Dynamis shells in my FFXI career, my latest being a well established and respected shell. Not a single one of my Dynamis shells participated in any sort of practice to get flags from other shells. Why would a new member, obviously new to Dynamis by his lack of flags, ask for such assistance if they have no idea of the practice?

One would think that said rare assistance would have been offered to him, since it was obviously such a tremendous concern to the sackholders and used against him.

edit: spelling, grammar

Edited, Sep 5th 2009 11:55pm by chewzer
____________________________
Fynlar wrote:
Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#588 Sep 05 2009 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
So pretty much "let the buyer beware" or "read the fine print" when it comes to SS/DS Linkshells...
#589 Sep 06 2009 at 5:31 AM Rating: Good
Wow. Beware FFXI player: Don't join Miracles' shell unless you can kiss his *** enough so he'll grant you gear that should go to other members. Because otherwise, not only the gear you earned go to one of his buddies, but his cronies will start trashing your reputation for being upset.

Edited, Sep 6th 2009 8:37am by VawnLakshmi
#590 Sep 06 2009 at 6:03 AM Rating: Default
Lol, I almost miss this game.
#591REDACTED, Posted: Sep 06 2009 at 6:19 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So nobody here has a problem with Valdan lotting RDM hat. He fulfilled the rules of the shell (Being 70+ and setting it as the main lot). Nobody wants a sackholder to ask Valdan to pass to let the Chapeau go to a more deserving person, even though Valdan has the required job to lot. Glad that is cleared up.
#592 Sep 06 2009 at 7:23 AM Rating: Excellent
Josm wrote:
Lol, I almost miss this game.


The feeling is NOT mutual.
#593 Sep 06 2009 at 7:34 AM Rating: Default
Tritant wrote:
The feeling is NOT mutual.


Aw, you know you don't hate me that much.
#594 Sep 06 2009 at 7:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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513 posts
JulanLakshmi wrote:
So nobody here has a problem with Valdan lotting RDM hat. He fulfilled the rules of the shell (Being 70+ and setting it as the main lot). Nobody wants a sackholder to ask Valdan to pass to let the Chapeau go to a more deserving person, even though Valdan has the required job to lot. Glad that is cleared up.

How exactly did you come to this conclusion? If you read several pages back, the disgust is almost tangible. No-one has ever said that they were fine that Valdan had acquired a chapeau considering his history. What people expressed was something akin to "I told you so." The leaders of that linkshell should have been made well aware of Valdan's reputation -- which, if I'm not mistaken, they were -- but the kicker was that they essentially gave him a chance. People like Valdan take chances and run away with them. This is yet another example of calculated opportunity-taking.

I'm assuming that you are trying to use the discussion about SS's system and trying to apply it to the Valdan situation. While I can see your point, it is very much out of context. Valdan (unfortunately) had every right to cast his lot per the linkshell's rules; what we see with SS's example is that the rules are manipulated to confer items to specific members where several members have fulfilled the linkshell's conditions.

I want to believe that this discrepancy in SS has been dispelled, as Ezzelin suggested, but reputations are very hard to unweave once they've been stitched.

JulanLakshmi wrote:
And if you say he should pass because he's an item thief, he should have been /breaklinkshell as soon as he showed his face in shell because he's an item thief. Once he was given a glass and participated with everyone else he is a lotting member.

I don't disagree.

Edited, Sep 6th 2009 3:40pm by Secretkeeper
#595 Sep 06 2009 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
JulanLakshmi wrote:
So nobody here has a problem with Valdan lotting RDM hat. He fulfilled the rules of the shell (Being 70+ and setting it as the main lot). Nobody wants a sackholder to ask Valdan to pass to let the Chapeau go to a more deserving person, even though Valdan has the required job to lot. Glad that is cleared up.

And if you say he should pass because he's an item thief, he should have been /breaklinkshell as soon as he showed his face in shell because he's an item thief. Once he was given a glass and participated with everyone else he is a lotting member.


I think everyone here is in agreement that Valdan should have never been allowed in that shell in the first place. But since he was, he should follow the same lotting rules as anyone else. Again, the problem was not that a SH should have asked Valdan to pass since the rules said he could. The problem is linkshells shouldn't let players like Valdan and Galan into their linkshells in the first place.
#596 Sep 06 2009 at 7:42 AM Rating: Excellent
Oh just what we need now is Josm to come back to start up more Valdan drama. We're kind of busy right now Josm, can you come back later? Anyway, if you quit, why didn't you take Valdan with you?
#597 Sep 06 2009 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
22 posts
So Miracles runs a linkshell with Galan in it and still tries to defend it? That's all I would need to hear to know to stay away from that linkshell.
#598 Sep 06 2009 at 8:54 AM Rating: Default
Vawn wrote:
Oh just what we need now is Josm to come back to start up more Valdan drama. We're kind of busy right now Josm, can you come back later? Anyway, if you quit, why didn't you take Valdan with you?


Not sure, I guess he just couldn't have enough of raping and pillaging the innocent; however, it looks like he went legit.

Eh, this isn't interesting anyway, back to analytical chem.
#599 Sep 06 2009 at 9:32 AM Rating: Default
The Glorious Secretkeeper wrote:

How exactly did you come to this conclusion? If you read several pages back, the disgust is almost tangible. No-one has ever said that they were fine that Valdan had acquired a chapeau considering his history. What people expressed was something akin to "I told you so." The leaders of that linkshell should have been made well aware of Valdan's reputation -- which, if I'm not mistaken, they were -- but the kicker was that they essentially gave him a chance. People like Valdan take chances and run away with them. This is yet another example of calculated opportunity-taking.

I'm assuming that you are trying to use the discussion about SS's system and trying to apply it to the Valdan situation. While I can see your point, it is very much out of context. Valdan (unfortunately) had every right to cast his lot per the linkshell's rules; what we see with SS's example is that the rules are manipulated to confer items to specific members where several members have fulfilled the linkshell's conditions.

I want to believe that this discrepancy in SS has been dispelled, as Ezzelin suggested, but reputations are very hard to unweave once they've been stitched.


"I told you so" what exactly? That Valdan was an item thief? He didn't steal the RDM hat.

"I told you so" Valdan is a jackass for lotting RDM hat and then never showing up for another run? Yeah, let's put player warnings every time somebody quits an event after they get the item they want.

No the prevailing "I told you so" attitude was because Valdan was a jackass for lotting an item when there were more deserving people in the shell:


AylahOfLakshmi wrote:

Sadly, it wasn't a "ninja" lot though. If it were, one of the BLMs could have just D2'd him, since he was in the BLM party to begin with. It was just a jackass lotting something when there were people in zone who deserved it more than he did.


But when Ezzelin asks somebody in our shell to pass an item to somebody more deserving, suddenly we're the devilspawn.

#600 Sep 06 2009 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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513 posts
JulanLakshmi wrote:
"I told you so" what exactly? That Valdan was an item thief? He didn't steal the RDM hat.

Yes, I think we already established that. Several times.

Perhaps I described it incorrectly. It was more like resigned disbelief that someone like that would end up getting such a desirable item.

JulanLakshmi wrote:
"I told you so" Valdan is a jackass for lotting RDM hat and then never showing up for another run? Yeah, let's put player warnings every time somebody quits an event after they get the item they want.

I would like to think that you realise that the warning about Valdan did not originate with his legitimate lotting of the RDM hat.

JulanLakshmi wrote:
No the prevailing "I told you so" attitude was because Valdan was a jackass for lotting an item when there were more deserving people in the shell:

I can see the point you're trying to make; really, I do. But you are fishing around for defenses that simply don't apply to this context. I will say it again: it was sheer disbelief that Valdan acquired such a reputable item. Aylah's quote you're presenting, regarding "who deserves it", is out of sheer frustration, not some of sort of linkshell hierarchy. With no disrespect to Aylah, everyone feels they deserve something more than another person. I'm guilty of it. I can admit that. It is a coping mechanism of sorts.

Like I said before, that linkshell runs as it runs. You show up for a certain number of runs, you get lotting rights. Whatever. What seems to be happening with SS (at least in the past) was that this very simple reward system is temporarily lifted and replaced with a sackholders' vote.

Do you see the difference?
#601 Sep 06 2009 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
Wow Julan do you even know whats going on here?

No one is saying Valdan shouldn't have lotted that RDM hat. He had the rights. But he has been an admitted thief long before he joined that Dynamis shell. There is no arguing that Valdan is a theif, he brags about it openly. Just because he didn't steal the RDM hat, it still makes me sick that he got it because some Dynamis sackholders decided they care about having an extra member regardless of how many people he has screwed over in the past. The problem wasn't him lotting, it was him being accepted to the linkshell in the first place. I wouldn't touch a shell with Valdan in it any faster than I would one with Galan in it.

Julan, your posts honestly confuse me. Are you stating you don't think Valdan is a theif because he didn't technically steal the relic hat? If so, you might want to read the first few pages of this thread and the actual screenshots showing him doing just that. Or you could just ask him yourself. He brags about it thinking he out smarted those he scammed.

Edited, Sep 6th 2009 3:55pm by VawnLakshmi
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