Why do you pay BLM to do KSNM?Follow

I've started this post in regards to the many replies from original thread I made "KSNM & Crafters BEWARE!" (Quotes used are from that thread)

I have to address this because of certain individuals that think it's stupid to pay BLM for ksnm and/or think BLM are cry babies and should be happy with any kind of money they recieve.



I'm assuming sir you have atleast 1 job lvl 75 and are an experienced player. If you can find 6 people willing to go I congratulate you. I once yelled in jeuno as a LVL 75 BLM looking for people willing to go on a regular PT "your orb your drop." I wasn't doing it because I needed it, but I was helping out a friend. Yelled in Jeuno for 3 hours because nobody wanted to do this "Standard PT style." Couldn't get the right jobs and most players didn't have /nin sub to do them. After 3 hours+ and another hour preparing for the fights (armor, food, and travelling to Waughroom Shrine), we lost 2/5 orbs and had like 50 deaths with R1's. Every run would take about 10~15 minutes + another 5~10 minutes to rest and rebuff, etc. So now multiply that 15~25 min per run times 5 orbs and the time to setup PT you have spent 6+ hours to this "yourself" and 2 people lost thier orb. Not to mention the drop rate on KSNM sucks and you guessed it... the other 3 successful orbs maybe totaled a couple million gil. I think i lost 10k EXP that day (hurts when you are lvl 75 and eat R1's)

So with alot of free time and spending your whole day to do this with a very high chance of crappy drops sure you can get some help, doesn't mean you won't die or loose your orb or even have a good drop. Not to mention if someone in your PT bails on you after they get thier orb done.

You mention "Greed Machine," you have obviously not done many KSNM runs. The average drop is like 400k. We don't get paid unless it's 500k+. That means we sit there for hours doing mostly free runs. When we do get paid it's a margin of the total... the orb holder comes out with 6x of what each individual BLM took home.




If this was true then I still wouldn't be doing runs and all other BLM doing runs like Damyen's Group, Deathfather's group, Psylink's group, Blackdeaths' group, etc. wouldn't be doing runs either.

If it is true then please post the 4 BLMs' names and I'll bring my orbs to them so they can give me free runs. Hell...I'll even donate 2 hours of my time and help them do the runs for free.




Multiply those 20 minutes per run times 50 runs....That's 16 hours of pushing buttons (It's usually about 10 min per run anyways, but that's still 8 hours+). Out of those 50 runs 40 of them are free because they will never exceed 500k+ in total gil. 5 out of those 50 runs are v-claws that the orb holder gets 100%. So BLM in the end get paid from 5 runs that will yeild a decent amount in total, but marginal in comparison to what the orb holders recieved.

I assume since I started the post you are calling me the cry baby and it was a retarted post:
1) you missed the point of the post because I was not crying over the gil, but rather the principle of being honest after making a deal.

2) The original post was to warn people when doing business with certain individuals they should take precautions.

3) I could sit here and call you a moron for not knowing what you are talking about, but this is a video game and I've said this many times... I really don't waste my time to fight with people from behind a computer screen.

OVERALL:

KSNM are very easy to do and I'll tell you the secret to successfully beating them without any BLM.
1) Have a 74+ job with a Ninja sub. (utsusemi: ni and ichi required)

That's all. I've seen 6 brd/nin beat KSNM rather quickly. Each person soloes 1 and that's all.

SO WHY DO YOU PAY BLM?
These are the answers from my friend because I honestly hate charging people I know in the game. I've even told my friends don't come to my KSNM I'll help you for free or we can do a regular PT setup. Their answers:

1) Takes too long to setup pt

2) I can't find help or the right combinations of jobs or enough high level help.

3) It's not 100% guaranteed with a regular pt. (If for some miracle BLM pt wipes the BLM pay 1 million gil for loosing your orb)

4) I don't loose anything by going to BLM setups because if my drops suck then it's free.

5) I'd rather have the more playtime then sit there like BCNM's going thru everyone's turn and I hate it if my drop sucks and thier's was good cause then I still have to finish everyone else' orb even though I just got shafted.

6) BLM will want to win no matter what because it benefits them too if drop is good. If you go with regular PT and the other person already used their orb they really don't care about your orb.

Now for all you people that say Kindred Seals are hard work and hard to get. YOU ARE LAZY ASSES THAT DON'T SOLO ENOUGH! I know people that 16 KS per day and are not BST. EP drops KS in case you didn't know. I usually get about 3~6 seals everytime I solo in Castle O.

Sorry for long explanation, but it just erks me when people talk about things they have never done and/or dont' know what it's like being on the other side. Yes i've paid blm many times to do my orbs and it's worth it to me. If it's not worth it to you then don't come and do it yourself.

THE END!

I'm probably going to make a few enemies with this, but think about the possibilities here. Claw drops you don't have to split, but anything else drops and you do. Most of the time the claw doesn't drop but ingots and other stuff do. Do the 60/40 math and you will realise that a mint is being made here, off the misfortune of the players orb drop.

If the Claw was to drop 1 in 2 or something like that, do you think the Claw would still be Free and no split on it's value? The Claw is there just to draw in people.

For the record, next 30 I get I will be soloing mine ^^

How do you lose KS30 Scorpions? I've never seen a competent PT lose that BC; it's the easiest KS by far. Any "regular" PT setup shouldn't have a problem with it; ie. 1 sleeper (BRD or BLM) 1 tank 2 DD 1 healer 1 whatever. {I don't understand.} If you can do BC40 Mandras you can basically do this; it's almost the same thing.

you solo'd it...? why, for some reason dont i believe you?

anyways... just an fyi to all, claw's drop rate is better than damascus ingot and damascene cloth.

and about the 4 blm group wiping... yeah its possible, ive seen it about 8 times now. im not going to say who because that would be embarassing.

the truth is, people go to ks30 because its reliable and fast (which have already been said) one run from the moment the orb is traded til the box is opened takes about 2.5-3 mins. many people dont have a job at 75 to do this for themselves, so that option isnt even avaliable to most of the people that do them.

I just do free runs for my LS i'm in, and ks30 can be easily done with 3 blms so really 1 blm is kinda leeching the gil since I have done many runs with 3 blms and never lost.

Yes please do the math. There are only 4 good drops from that KSNM (d-cloth, d-ignot, v-claw, and o-ignot valued around 5 million, 10 million, 12 million, and 2 million respectively).

You get v-claw 100% yours and v-claw drops more then any of the other 3 big ones. Let's say you get d-ignot, you get 6 million for 99.9% success rate and doing nothing, but watching.

Obviously you have not done these enough or you'd know that the drop rate is so bad we don't get 2 ignots every other drop or whatever you meant by that comment above.

For the record I'd love to see you solo it. In fact I've done these so many damn times now I'll give you 100k if you solo it successfully because "people say it's sooooo easy." I'll give you another 100k if your drop is greater then the meds and food you'll pay to solo it if you make it out alive. (hi-pots, hi-ethers, turbo ethers, cones, etc).




LIE!

1) It only takes 1 person to ***** someone elses' orb.
2) These aren't lvl 40 mobs where they sleep as easily as mandies.
-On the runs where I did it with a standard PT I was the 75 blm with merrits in enfeebling magic and pluto's staff and I got resisted by some of them when my sleepga II timer wasn't up yet and I had to use sleepga I.

Since you've done it with 100% success rate with a regular PT (I assume from your comment) because it's "so easy" then you'd know what happens is the "sleeper" gets hate from all 5 scorpions. They wake up at differnt times and the sleep doesn't last as long as on regular mobs that you sleep. Our RDM tried to sleep them and he got resisted. So you have to kite the woken ones and/or use sleepga I and sleepga II and sleep and sleep II not to mention all magic spells are on timers and I've gotten resisted so I know the "regular" pt will get resist too. It only takes one scorp hitting the "sleeper" to interupt thier casting and the scorps also have a nasty AOE, but you knew that already from your comment. I've even seen a BLM elemental seal sleep and get resisted at lvl 75 (not me) so you must all be the most uber players on this server that never get resisted and can solo Tiamat and Kiren.

These are not like mandies and like I said, a regular PT can do it, but the risk is high as you can tell from the time I went with a regular PT and we lost 2 orbs. I've also seen 4 BLM wipe because like I said it only takes 1 person to mess it up for the orb holder.




There are video's of BLM soloing this around the net, but I know those BLM are not you. Until you show proof I'm going to think you are like the other poser BLM that "claim" to solo this because it's possible, but they themselves have never really soloed it. I'll even apologize and give you 100k for your time if you can give us proof like a video of your Uberness. Hell the way you talk it seems that you solo this all the time, so how about you give us a demonstration? I'll even be the stupid one and you can use my orb to solo it. I'll give you 60% of the total drop? How does that sound for your time to show all of us how uber you are?

In regards to manafont, I've been interrupted after using my manafont many times by gods, NMs, and even IT mobs. I did "Copy Cat" KSNM and used Manafont and my castings were interrupted, so I think it's a myth that you can't be interrupted by using manafont.

In regards to the 3 BLM that can do this... of course... but we want fast deaths and 100% success rate. 3 BLM still run a risk of dying far easier then 4 BLM. We'd rather play it safe then to loose someone's orb. We'd like to consider ourselves not greedy as we provide a service and that is why people keep coming to BLM because they find a "need" for it.

And for all the people that have never tried this KSNM please I recommend you do... because I'm confident that the majority will appreciate BLM more for doing KSNM runs.

I'll leave you with this Quote from a person that posted on the original thread:



Edited, Tue Jan 24 13:27:24 2006 by bryantr

Edited, Tue Jan 24 13:39:23 2006 by bryantr

I'll do it just to see it done. I think it would be cool. It's worth the 60/40 to me. I won't back out on my deal as that would make me as low as the guy that I had originally posted all this for.



Edited, Tue Jan 24 14:27:30 2006 by bryantr

No, those who provide services are not lazy. They are oportunists. There is nothing wrong with providing a service to someone (even with predatory terms) because the patron agrees to the relationship. I never even insinuated that you or any other provider of a service was lazy or stupid, in fact I said those who PAY you to do something so easy are lazy and stupid.

If I paid 200k for a teleport I would be both Lazy and stupid. If I paid 500k for a raise I would be both lazy and stupid. Do you understand the difference? Better question, do you have any ability to construct a cogent argument?



My use of the term "getting ahead" implies recieving a reward for doing nothing at all. Crafting obviously requires months of investment to provide skill, days of farming for ingredients and then the fortune and luck to succeed/HQ. BLM manaburn is receiving a reward for doing nothing more than being in a party and receiving Kindred Seals from the autoloot system. Once again these two situations have absoloutly no relationship since one requires an investment of gil, time and effort whereas the other requires nothign at all. Cogent argument {Can I have it?}




Again, your example bears no relation to my statement. Whereas you provide a luxury service the examples you cited are what most people consider necessities. That aside see my reply to your last assertion for my dismissial of this argument.




Because . . . . . . Wait for it wait for it wait for it.....

YOU ARE NOT PERFORMING A DIFFICULT TASK! THE REWARD EXCEEDS THE EFFORT! THE PEOPLE PAYING YOU ARE PERFORMING NO WORK! THEY ARE BEING REWARDED FOR NOTHING!



Not at all. I profit extensively from my Veteran level craft and I do it without any shame or guilt. Because I PAID for it. With the work of skilling it and farming for the gil to pay the costs. I worked for my ability to make gil. You clients did not. Do you see the difference? do you see why nothing you have said makes any sense?




Am I the best? I sure as hell am not. That title unequivacbly goes to Weenie. Garion, Wizzaru and a few others are probably better than me also. I am however in the top 10 on the server. Ive got the gear and the merits not to mention the experience to justify that claim.



I'm farming sea with my LS tonight till about 11. Im free after that if you want to go otherwise you will have to wait till friday.

-Abstruse.

I think the split should be 75/25 then it would be cool. Getting 30 seals takes a while and all blms do is cast thundaga 3. I've done other ksbcnms with a normal setup they seem to be very easy. Only bad thing is since everybody does manaburn nobody will go for a normal run.

I wasn't going to post anymore about this topic, but I am bored so here it goes.



Like any other farmable items, they all have thier price. Kindred seals are farmable. They can be obtained in other means besides exp parties. In an exp party, you are also chancing your luck against up to 5 other people. Maybe I have had really crappy luck, but my best so far was 4 KSs in 9 hours with an EXP party.

So at my best luck, it would take me roughly 7 to 8 more exp parties of the same time frame to get enough seals, or roughly 63 to 72 hours of exp parties just to get maybe 500k if nothing good dropped. I prefer to go out and solo mine, which is more work, and tends to yield a better drop rate since I have no one else sharing my loot.

I can easily farm 140-200k an hour sticking near Jeuno while lfp just farming easily killed mobs. So how is getting kindred seals and having a group put them to use any different then getting any other farmable items that others put to use?

Let me give an example. The other day, I had a party invite with a few friends. They were waiting on another person to get home from work, but went ahead and invited me. I like to maximize my time, so I said while we wait, Im going to hunt death jackets just outside of Jeuno so it would only take me 2 minutes max to get back to town when he got on. In the time I spent, possible a little more then 30 minutes, I had 2 stacks of beehive chips. I had 3 or 4 left over, so say I got 20 in 30~ minutes. They say he is logging on, so I flee back to Jeuno and put them up on AH for 28k per stack.

Next example. I am in a partial static (3/6 members). We have been doing skill up sessions lately to cap other weapons. We split kindred seals evenly when we do this. It takes alot longer, and more work to bash at EM-T mobs with an underskilled weapon and keep everyone alive then it does to swing a capped weapon at a too weak. I can't even give a rough estimate on how long it takes us to get a stack of KS.

So, lets see....

Beehive chips netted me, we will say 50k (since I already had a couple) and took less time and effort to get.

Kindred seals have yet to net me a profit (currently at 29 total) and have taken alot more time, effort, and accrued expenses (food, choco's, warp cudgel charges, conquest points for instant warp scrolls when the cudgel wasnt ready, etc.) all for the possibility that one day when I use them, it might net me a profit of anywhere between 100k to 12 million.

I fail to see how this is doing less then what a typical farmer does.

http://redmage.k-free.net/

This guy did it as BLM/RDM from memory I have the movie somewhere. From memory he manafont's at the wrong time and IMHO that nearly cost him the Orb. He still came through fine though.

Now as my rated down post shows, I struck a nerve, and well I wouldn't have got rated down if it wasn't true. The truth is that I help do runs for the LS I'm in, we were doing it with 3BLM's and 1RDM for a while without a problem. I know how much effort goes into doing the runs, and I know that you could probably do it with 5 BLM70's or less.

Doesn't matter if the claw drops more than the d.ingot or cloth, the fact is that if the claw drops and the rest of the drop is crap, the BLM's lose out. If the claw doesn't drop but ingots do, the orb holder loses out and the BLM's win. Simple as that. It's a gamble and I've seen a lot of bad drops from one's I've done, and a few rather nice ones 20mil+.

When I do solo it, I will fraps it. My gear won't be anything to brag about either, I'm not made of gil, I play the game to have fun, not to be the best. Hell one thing I want to do before quitting the game is soloing the Shadow lord with a Rusty Dagger.

my friend, you need to get laid... bad. simple as that.

You guys can't solo Operation Desert Storm? Hmm... says something.

Bryantr, you aren't a very educated blackmage are you?

Edited, Wed Jan 25 13:36:15 2006 by vokkk