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#52 Jul 01 2014 at 7:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Obama is either the do-nothing, disengaged president who takes no responsibility or else the imperialistic president constantly overstepping the Constitution and snubbing Congress to seize additional power depending on which way the coin flip lands that day.

Wake up, spin the talking point wheel and see if it lands on "Lost Community Organizer!" or "King George III, Stalin and Hitler all in one!" before starting your day.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#53 Jul 01 2014 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
Yes; no other president was quite as black while bending the Constitution.
That's rude. It's just a coincidence that problems and issues that have been going on for decades, if not centuries, are suddenly such huge issues during this specific administration.
Well to be fair some of them were issues back when Clinton was President as well.
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#54 Jul 01 2014 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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So, only issues during Democrat administration's. That sounds about right.
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#55 Jul 01 2014 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
I considered replying to your post, but then I decided to take the high road and just laugh at how astonishingly poorly you understand the law.

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#56 Jul 01 2014 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Well to be fair some of them were issues back when Clinton was President as well.
He's covered in the "decades, if not centuries" section.
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#57 Jul 01 2014 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
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Uh huh. Some of us recognized that the court created this very problem with the horrifically bad decision on the mandate itself a couple years ago. Had they ruled correctly on that case, there would be no reason to tap dance around with finding justifications for rulings like this one (and others that are still to come). By allowing the mandate to stand at all they put in place a condition where there will be an endless list of different group of people, businesses, organizations, corporations, etc that will each say "what about this case?".
The court created this problem with this ruling.


No. They created it with the previous one. Unless the court is willing to say that there is *zero* religious grounds at play (which effectively means you kiss the 1st amendment goodbye), then there must be some point at which the government can't force a member of a religion to take an action which violates their beliefs. There must be. Therefore, by ruling that the mandate was constitutional in the first place created a circumstance where the court would be forced to deal with dozens of additional cases regarding each particular religious prohibition and how it applies to the law.

Had they simply ruled that the government has no authority to force people to purchase a product as a basic rights issue (ie: not resting on any specific enumerated right, but the basic idea that people should be free to do with their property what they wish), then the problem of having to delve into each possible interaction between the mandates and various religious believes does not occur. They absolutely created the problem by failing to recognize that the right to not be forced to buy something is an innate right that we all should have regardless of religion.

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Blaming the ACA is a cop-out.


I'm not blaming the ACA. I'm blaming the failure of the court to rule that the mandates contained within it were unconstitutional. The resulting problems were inevitable once they handed down that ruling. No way to avoid them.
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More words please
#58 Jul 01 2014 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
No previous president has ever used recess appointments in the way Obama did.
Yes; no other president was quite as black while bending the Constitution.


That's seriously your response? Ignore everything I wrote and just proclaim "You don't like it because Obama is black!"? Way to think for yourself there sparky!
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#59 Jul 01 2014 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Way to think for yourself there sparky!
Says the ******* that constantly cries about people not asking the questions he prepared for.
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#60 Jul 01 2014 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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So it ends up basically being the same as the whole civil rights thing. There's a point you can't deny service to someone based on their skin color, and there's a point where you're allowed to express your beliefs. There's a point where you can't force someone to provide services they disagree with, and there's a point you can do so. It's like the same thing, just fast forward 50-odd years.
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#61 Jul 01 2014 at 3:29 PM Rating: Decent
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It's like the same thing

Oh definitely, being born with an unchangeable skin color and deciding to "believe" in an arbitrary set of rules codified in a book written by the prophets of the invisibly man in the sky. Nearly identical.
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#62 Jul 01 2014 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
So it ends up basically being the same as the whole civil rights thing. There's a point you can't deny service to someone based on their skin color, and there's a point where you're allowed to express your beliefs. There's a point where you can't force someone to provide services they disagree with, and there's a point you can do so. It's like the same thing, just fast forward 50-odd years.


I disagree. There's a massive difference between the government saying "If you provide Service X, you must provide it to all customers who walk through your door regardless of gender, race, etc." and "You are required to provide Service X". The former is about discrimination against individual (or groups of) people and can be justified as a rights issue. The latter isn't about rights at all (except the infringement of the rights of the provider).

If we start with the assumption that we all innately have the right to control how we use our own property (and we should, since that's a core concept of liberalism), then we should conclude that the government can only infringe this right if there is another competing right which outweighs it. In the case of discriminating against customers of a good or service based on their race, gender, or religion, this is pretty clear cut. And in the case of discriminating against employees (for hiring, pay, or advancement) based on those same criteria is also pretty clear cut. But what is the competing right which requires that a business provide a good or service that they don't want to involve themselves in at all? Even to their own employees? If they say "this is the benefits package which all employees receive", it's not discrimination. They aren't saying "white folks get these benefits, while black folks get a different set". Every employee gets the same benefits, so there's no discrimination.


Ah, but you say: But isn't refusing to provide contraceptive coverage a discrimination against women? Not really. Discrimination has to be viewed in a direct manner. Do male employees get a better deal than females? It's not such a clear issue, given that men and women have different health care needs overall. There are numerous differences and we could probably go crazy trying to bean count them all. Plus I suspect that if we did bean count, we'd find that women tend to get a better "deal" overall from health benefits than men. Also the issue of spouses and dependents further muddies the waters. Point being that you can't really point to a clear discrimination against a given group of employees in this case. Certainly not one that outweighs the infringement of the business owners innate property rights.


The irony here is that the ACA mandates actually create a good portion of the problem. By forcing employers to provide health care benefits (and/or forcing everyone to purchase the same via some methodology), the government is actually putting employees in the position of having to "pay" for health care that may not exactly match what they need. For example, prior to the passage of the ACA, an employee was free to opt out of the employer coverage and use the difference in funds to purchase just the insurance he/she wanted (or none at all, pocketing the difference). Most wouldn't, because you could usually get a better group rate going through your employer, but the option was there. I'm not sure how much harder the ACA has made that choice (and it's absolutely eliminated the "no care at all" option), but this is more tricky to do than it used to be. Certainly, the employee will find that the mandates on coverage will ensure that there are fewer choices out there.

Point being that prior to this, you could have chosen to purchase just emergency coverage and pocketed the difference to use to directly purchase any form of contraception you wanted. Now, you either get it with the coverage, or you have to pay a greater cost out of pocket for the same thing. It's a matter of degrees, of course, but if buying contraception directly is a financial burden, then odds are this change is impacting you negatively. And that's the real problem. The ACA reduces the freedom of choice of everyone involved. That's the problem. This particular case is just one effect of that problem. There are many many others.
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More words please
#63 Jul 01 2014 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
But isn't refusing to provide contraceptive coverage a discrimination against women? Not really.
Because to gbaji women aren't people.
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#64 Jul 01 2014 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
No previous president has ever used recess appointments in the way Obama did.
Yes; no other president was quite as black while bending the Constitution.
That's seriously your response? Ignore everything I wrote and just proclaim "You don't like it because Obama is black!"? Way to think for yourself there sparky!
I do. I've read your posts for years now, and if you aren't racist (as you claim, which I doubt) the people you support so hard sure are.

Guilt by association and all that.


Edited, Jul 1st 2014 4:01pm by Bijou
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Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#65 Jul 01 2014 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
No previous president has ever used recess appointments in the way Obama did.
Yes; no other president was quite as black while bending the Constitution.
That's seriously your response? Ignore everything I wrote and just proclaim "You don't like it because Obama is black!"? Way to think for yourself there sparky!
I do. I've read your posts for years now, and if you aren't racist (as you claim, which I doubt) the people you support so hard sure are.

Guilt by association and all that.


It honestly doesn't occur to you to question that associative reasoning? So if someone just repeats "conservative are racists" over and over, then you assume it must be true, and even if there is nothing at all racist in what a conservative is saying right at the moment, you'll dismiss it because either he's a racist, or those he associates with are?

That's a completely bizarre thought process. You've managed to create a method by which you never have to assess your own positions. Doesn't that bother you? I mean, you do have a brain and can think for yourself. Don't you at some point think that "they're all racists so I wont listen to them" might just be something someone might convince you of because they don't want you to listen to or consider the other guy's position?

Where did you learn this? As you say, I've been posting here for years, and you've been reading my posts for years. When did I post something that was racist? Ever?
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#66 Jul 01 2014 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
That's a completely bizarre thought process.
Did you just admit your own thought processes are bizarre, or are you going to sit there and try to dismiss how often you repeat "DEMOCRATS ARE BAD!" over and over again?
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George Carlin wrote:
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#67 Jul 01 2014 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
When did I post something that was racist? Ever?
Every time you've attacked the president with a lie you heard on FOX.

Modern racists, such as yourself, are minimally self-aware enough that they don't just shout out slurs. They couch their racism with fancy catchwords like "urban youths" and "welfare queens".

And where do you get off assuming I never interact with human beings? I do. Quite often. And every single "conservative" I've met who slavishly adheres to the rhetoric of FOX and Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, ad nauseum are blatantly racist. I'd say YMMV, but as you never see any fault in your cronies, it won't.

EDIT: Just so were clear : The racists mentioned above self-identify as "conservative", not "Republican".

Edited, Jul 1st 2014 4:25pm by Bijou
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#68 Jul 01 2014 at 4:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
When did I post something that was racist? Ever?
Every time you've attacked the president with a lie you heard on FOX.


Setting aside the "with a lie you heard on FOX" bit, I would make the exact same attacks on Obama if he were white. Would you call an attack on a white president racist? No? then by calling it racist only when he's black, it makes *you* the racist. Not me.

Quote:
Modern racists, such as yourself, are minimally self-aware enough that they don't just shout out slurs. They couch their racism with fancy catchwords like "urban youths" and "welfare queens".


I think you're really really looking for an excuse to call something racism.

Also, I assume you have a quote of me using those terms? Cause I'm still waiting for an example of something I've posted that was racist.

Quote:
And where do you get off assuming I never interact with human beings? I do. Quite often. And every single "conservative" I've met who slavishly adheres to the rhetoric of FOX and Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, ad nauseum are blatantly racist. I'd say YMMV, but as you never see any fault in your cronies, it won't.


The irony here is that you've almost certainly never spent any significant time watching Fox, or Rush, or Coulter, so you actually have no clue when any conservative you meet is repeating their rhetoric or not. And ****, you don't even know what their "rheotirc" is. You've been told by hosts of liberal talking heads to identify anything that sounds conservative with this invented assumed group of evil people so as to dismiss what they say out of hand without listening to them.


Seriously. Stop and actually listen to conservatives instead of dismissing them. You might just find that what they have to say isn't racist, and actually makes a **** of a lot of sense.

Quote:
EDIT: Just so were clear : The racists mentioned above self-identify as "conservative", not "Republican".


Again with the whole racist angle. I'm not going to defend every world anyone on Fox has ever said, but how about we stop with the broad generalizations, and look for specifics. Can you find a single quote from me, on this forum, saying something that is racist. Not holding a position that you associate with other people or groups that you have been taught to consider racist, but an actual racist statement?

Can you do that? If not, maybe you need to reassess your assumptions and associations.
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#69 Jul 01 2014 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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I drive for hours and hours everyday, so I listen to a lot of talk radio. It usually goes like this.

"Teabaggers!!"

Flip station

"**** Pelosi!!!"

Flip station

"War on Women!!"

Flip station

"Imperial Tyrant!!"


Don't get me wrong, it's highly entertaining. Much like watching 3rd graders fight. Actually, scratch that, it's more like watching monkeys fling poo.
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#70 Jul 01 2014 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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CoalHeart wrote:
I'm an idiot, so I listen to a lot of talk radio.


I hear you.
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#71 Jul 01 2014 at 8:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk wrote:
CoalHeart wrote:
I'm an idiot, so I listen to a lot of talk radio.


I hear you.


So we're both listening to idiots.
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#72 Jul 01 2014 at 9:05 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So if someone just repeats "conservative are racists" over and over, then you assume it must be true, and even if there is nothing at all racist in what a conservative is saying right at the moment, you'll dismiss it because either he's a racist, or those he associates with are?


Uhh, no one here has to repeat it; the conservatives ( almost completely useless label btw ) just do things that, to a relatively educated, not even intelligent, person, seem mildly racist.

You know, action speaks louder than words and all that.

Edited, Jul 1st 2014 11:06pm by angrymnk
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#73 Jul 01 2014 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
I have successfully dehumanised Republicans.

The next stage, presumably, is some kind of atrocity.


Good luck with that.

Haha, I can make people say whatever I like! I am rhetorically invincible.

If only someone had thought of this before.
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#74 Jul 01 2014 at 9:15 PM Rating: Default
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Kavekk wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
I have successfully dehumanised Republicans.

The next stage, presumably, is some kind of atrocity.


Good luck with that.

Haha, I can make people say whatever I like! I am rhetorically invincible.

If only someone had thought of this before.


Yeah, unless someone actually reads more than just one post; otherwise flawless plan. Ever thought of patenting this?
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#75 Jul 01 2014 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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flawless plan. Ever thought of patenting this?


Honestly, the state of patent law I could probably get one.
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#76 Jul 01 2014 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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So if someone just repeats "conservative are racists" over and over, then you assume it must be true, and even if there is nothing at all racist in what a conservative is saying right at the moment, you'll dismiss it because either he's a racist, or those he associates with are?

Depends on who is repeating it, really. When the chairman of the GOP national committee explains how best to appeal to racists, then yes, I assume it must be true.

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

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