Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Gap GuiltFollow

#27 Feb 25 2014 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,222 posts
I think "guilt" is a bit of a misnomer. It seems to me that, questions of fairness aside, these particular men simply recognize that the economy runs better with a strong middle class.

____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#28 Feb 25 2014 at 4:00 PM Rating: Excellent
******
30,646 posts
gbaji wrote:
So this tells me that out of the rather largish list of people who might be described as tycoons, only 5 are stupid enough to think that both that the "wage gap" is a problem and that simply raising the minimum wage will fix it. Why not write a story about the 500,000 tycoons who all hold the opposite position instead? They're more likely to be correct.


Because the majority is always right...? Does this mean that the sun really does revolve around the earth?
#29 Feb 25 2014 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,369 posts
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
gbaji wrote:
So this tells me that out of the rather largish list of people who might be described as tycoons, only 5 are stupid enough to think that both that the "wage gap" is a problem and that simply raising the minimum wage will fix it. Why not write a story about the 500,000 tycoons who all hold the opposite position instead? They're more likely to be correct.


Because the majority is always right...? Does this mean that the sun really does revolve around the earth?
As far as the "little people" know. Smiley: cool
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#30 Feb 25 2014 at 4:17 PM Rating: Excellent
******
49,660 posts
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Does this mean that the sun really does revolve around the earth?
We covered this. It all revolves around me.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#31 Feb 25 2014 at 4:47 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Because the majority is always right...?

The article makes no attempt to cast these five as the only five. Rather, they grabbed five names that made for a good cross section (liberal, conservative, yadda yadda) and wrote about those five guys. Gbaji's remark is the same as taking a "Five People Under 25 Changing Technology" article from Wired and saying only five people in the world under 25 must be changing technology.

That's not the only thing laughable about his remark but it's still worth pointing out when asking about the "majority".
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#32 Feb 26 2014 at 8:14 AM Rating: Good
Lunatic
******
30,084 posts
So this tells me that out of the rather largish list of people who might be described as tycoons, only 5 are stupid enough to think that both that the "wage gap" is a problem and that simply raising the minimum wage will fix it. Why not write a story about the 500,000 tycoons who all hold the opposite position instead? They're more likely to be correct.

"Yassah, Mr. Koch, we is all bettah off when you has all the money. OH YESSAH, lawdy me, how helpful it be for you to contribute to the economy that allows me to earn slightly more than an average salary. Why, I will work tirelessly to maintain you etrenched advantage so long as I can feel part of your class and better than other people. Even though I'm obviously not, but let's not talk about that...."
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#33 Feb 26 2014 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,594 posts
gbaji wrote:
So this tells me that out of the rather largish list of people who might be described as tycoons, only 5 are stupid enough to think that both that the "wage gap" is a problem and that simply raising the minimum wage will fix it. Why not write a story about the 500,000 tycoons who all hold the opposite position instead? They're more likely to be correct.
I think you should do a statistical survey of tycoons to get a more accurate measure of how many are stupid.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#34 Feb 26 2014 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
I'm a roller coaster tycoon. I'm thinking about branching out into zoos and maybe railroads.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#35 Feb 26 2014 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
******
49,660 posts
I used to tycoon roller coasters, but my illusions of grandeur made me always try to create a low budget public space program.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#36 Feb 26 2014 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,369 posts
.

Smiley: nod
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#37 Feb 26 2014 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,594 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
I used to tycoon roller coasters, but my illusions of grandeur made me always try to create a low budget public space program.

To the moon, Alice.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#38 Feb 26 2014 at 8:39 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
So this tells me that out of the rather largish list of people who might be described as tycoons, only 5 are stupid enough to think that both that the "wage gap" is a problem and that simply raising the minimum wage will fix it. Why not write a story about the 500,000 tycoons who all hold the opposite position instead? They're more likely to be correct.


Hahahaha. Jesus you are dumb.

____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#39 Feb 26 2014 at 10:23 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,234 posts
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
gbaji wrote:
So this tells me that out of the rather largish list of people who might be described as tycoons, only 5 are stupid enough to think that both that the "wage gap" is a problem and that simply raising the minimum wage will fix it. Why not write a story about the 500,000 tycoons who all hold the opposite position instead? They're more likely to be correct.


Hahahaha. Jesus you are dumb.



Don't bring Jesus into this. He has got some lawns to mow.

____________________________
Your soul was made of fists.

Jar the Sam
#40 Feb 27 2014 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,594 posts
...and when she's done with the lawns I've got some clouds that need lining.

Anyone see that old couple that found $10Mil worth of gold buried in their backyard?

Someone, god or such, should bury gold in every citizen's yard. All one has to do to be blessed is to want it bad it enough to keep digging. You apt. dwellers are screwed.



Edited, Feb 27th 2014 8:44pm by Elinda
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#41 Feb 27 2014 at 1:15 PM Rating: Excellent
******
49,660 posts
Varus sold his place?
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#42 Feb 27 2014 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
******
29,359 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Varus sold his place?

Does that mean Jophiel should be giving them a call to see about his money? Because I want to listen in on that Skype call if he does.
#43 Feb 27 2014 at 7:27 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
34,860 posts
Samira wrote:
I think "guilt" is a bit of a misnomer. It seems to me that, questions of fairness aside, these particular men simply recognize that the economy runs better with a strong middle class.


They may, but that's irrelevant since they're not arguing that we need a stronger middle class. They're arguing for a higher minimum wage. Which is a completely different thing. Surely you can see how arguing for a higher minimum wage does nothing to increase the size/strength/whatever of the middle class (a group who, somewhat by definition aren't earning minimum wage).

Raising the minimum wage primarily has the effect of increasing the wages of the lowest earners (duh, right?). Which also means that this weakens the "strength" of the middle class relative to the poor as well. If getting a good job and working hard for a decade or so gets you to a place economically where you're making 10 times minimum wage, and they double the minimum wage, what has that done to your relative economic progress?

Edited, Feb 27th 2014 5:34pm by gbaji
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#44 Feb 27 2014 at 7:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,222 posts
Nothing, because domestic goods and services remain available and affordable because there's a ready market for them.
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#45 Feb 27 2014 at 7:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
****
6,411 posts
gbaji wrote:


Raising the minimum wage primarily has the effect of increasing the wages of the lowest earners (duh, right?). Which also means that this weakens the "strength" of the middle class relative to the poor as well. If getting a good job and working hard for a decade or so gets you to a place economically where you're making 10 times minimum wage, and they double the minimum wage, what has that done to your relative economic progress?

Edited, Feb 27th 2014 5:34pm by gbaji


Where are you getting this? What magical fairy-tale land do you get a job starting at minimum wage evolves into a position making 10 times more after only a "decade or so?"

Not only that, but how many "middle class" families living comfortably have to hold back on spending because their "minimum wage" relatives can't afford to live on their own. Do you think it will matter if people making TEN TIMES minimum wage are butthurt over being only five times better than human beings who work for the least amount of money legally allowed?
____________________________
Galkaman wrote:
Kuwoobie will die crushed under the burden of his mediocrity.

#46 Feb 27 2014 at 7:45 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
34,860 posts
Samira wrote:
Nothing, because domestic goods and services remain available and affordable because there's a ready market for them.


I said "relative economic progress". People tend to increase their earnings over their lifetime. That's the progress I'm talking about. And we absolutely measure that in relative terms based on where you started out.

Put it another way: Imagine you started working and earned $10/hour. 5 years later, you've earned raises and whatnot and are earning $20/hour. Then you boss decides to hire someone with the same starting skill/title/etc that you had 5 years ago, but decides to start that employee off at $20/hour. Would you be ok with that? I mean, you're still earning the same amount, right? Why do you care that the guy who started yesterday earns the same salary rate it took you 5 years to get to?

You'd be ******* Anyone would be. So yeah, raising minimum wage affects the middle class, but in a negative way. It certainly does nothing to strengthen it.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#47 Feb 27 2014 at 7:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,366 posts
Why the **** am I still doing the same entry level job 5 years after starting? Also, in what world does minimum wage double in 5 years?
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#48 Feb 27 2014 at 7:49 PM Rating: Excellent
******
49,660 posts
I guess if we ignore history where wages have been increased and the country hasn't ended you might have a point.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#49 Feb 27 2014 at 8:08 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
34,860 posts
Kuwoobie wrote:
gbaji wrote:


Raising the minimum wage primarily has the effect of increasing the wages of the lowest earners (duh, right?). Which also means that this weakens the "strength" of the middle class relative to the poor as well. If getting a good job and working hard for a decade or so gets you to a place economically where you're making 10 times minimum wage, and they double the minimum wage, what has that done to your relative economic progress?


Where are you getting this? What magical fairy-tale land do you get a job starting at minimum wage evolves into a position making 10 times more after only a "decade or so?"


First off, I didn't say you start at minimum wage, but that's not the point. The point is that you spend time increasing your earnings. The return on that time spent is how much more you are earning relatively speaking than someone else who's just starting out. Minimum wage is a good baseline comparison to use for this.

And for the record, it does not require a fairy tale to occur. In 1996 I was earning $6.50/hour (which was just barely over minimum wage at the time). I was hired at my current job and started as a temp at $9/hour. A year later I was rolled over to regular employee and my salary increased to $12/hour. A year after that I was earning roughly $50k/year. By the ten year mark, I was earning north of $80k/year (which is ten times the current minimum in California). Today, I earn somewhere around $120k/year, not counting bonuses and stock earnings.

So yeah. This sort of thing does happen. My case may be a bit extreme, but even more moderate cases occur all the time. Again though, the point isn't about any specific ratio, but the fact that the ratio of your earnings today versus what a new worker just entering the market will earn at a minimum (aka "minimum wage") is a measurement of your own personal economic advancement. When that ratio changes in a negative direction, it does have a negative effect on you.

Quote:
Not only that, but how many "middle class" families living comfortably have to hold back on spending because their "minimum wage" relatives can't afford to live on their own. Do you think it will matter if people making TEN TIMES minimum wage are butthurt over being only five times better than human beings who work for the least amount of money legally allowed?


You kinda made my point for me though. No matter how high you raise it, by definition minimum wage will always be " the least amount of money legally allowed". You aren't changing that by raising it. What you are doing is hurting the advancement of everyone else. You're also still obsessing over one case. How about a different one? Let's imagine someone earning $10/hour in a state where the minimum wage is $8/hour. He's spent some time and sweat getting to the point where he's making $2 more per hour than the guy who started yesterday, right?

What effect does raising the minimum wage to $10/hour have on him? Pretty demoralizing, right? I mean, why bother making sure to come to work on time, and work hard, and whatnot if it isn't going to make a difference in the long run?

I mentioned middle class wages because I was responding to the somewhat absurd idea that raising the minimum wage somehow "strengthens the middle class". It obviously doesn't, and if anything weakens it (slightly). But the people who really get screwed over are the working class folks. They're often making more than minimum wage, but not much more. Point being that the only people minimum wage helps are people who can't earn more than minimum wage. It hurts every single other person in the economy to some degree.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#50 Feb 27 2014 at 8:09 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
34,860 posts
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Why the **** am I still doing the same entry level job 5 years after starting? Also, in what world does minimum wage double in 5 years?


Sigh...

The article in the OP[/link wrote:
Hanauer, 54, advocates raising taxes for the rich and hiking the minimum wage to the unheard-of heights of $15 an hour.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#51 Feb 27 2014 at 8:10 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
34,860 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
I guess if we ignore history where wages have been increased and the country hasn't ended you might have a point.


And if we ignore all of the different things that can hurt people without causing the country to end, then you might have a point.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 61 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (61)