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#77 Feb 06 2014 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Evolution is not a fact

Nah it's a fact. Let's not confuse people. Evolution through random mutation and natural selection of preferential genes is a fact. Happens all the time, is happening now, not an open question.

Ok, I can go with that - evolving the verb, is taking place all the time. Evolution the noun is a theory explaining why some birds have long beaks and humans have a tailbone, etc etc.

Nothing explains Debalic.



Evolution is not a verb, and there is no difference in the two anyway.

Some mutations are adaptive. Some are maladaptive. Some are neutral. When mutations are adaptive such that the lucky critters affected are more prone to reproduce and pass on their genes, we call it evolution.

What some people insist on calling macroevolution as opposed to the politically acceptable microevolution (after all, we know flu viruses mutate constantly, so there's no arguing against that one) is simply short sightedness. They refuse, or are perhaps intellectually unable, to take the long view.

Sorry for my grammatical incorrectness.

Evolution is a theory.
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#78 Feb 06 2014 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
Samira wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Evolution is not a fact

Nah it's a fact. Let's not confuse people. Evolution through random mutation and natural selection of preferential genes is a fact. Happens all the time, is happening now, not an open question.

Ok, I can go with that - evolution the verb, is taking place all the time. Evolution the noun is a theory explaining why some birds have long beaks and humans have a tailbone, etc etc.

Nothing explains Debalic.



Evolution is not a verb, and there is no difference in the two anyway.

Some mutations are adaptive. Some are maladaptive. Some are neutral. When mutations are adaptive such that the lucky critters affected are more prone to reproduce and pass on their genes, we call it evolution.

What some people insist on calling macroevolution as opposed to the politically acceptable microevolution (after all, we know flu viruses mutate constantly, so there's no arguing against that one) is simply short sightedness. They refuse, or are perhaps intellectually unable, to take the long view.



This about sums up the gap I think. People can observe small changes but they are unable (or unwilling) to link said changes into a chronological archetype. I think some folks are either ignorantly shortsighted or just @#%^ing stupid. The Human species didn't just get shat out one day, it was a multilayered process that saw many incarnations of "subhuman" species...we have evidence of all of these itterations of the evolutionary process. One small change at a time, over the span of likely hundreds of millions of years brought us to where we are today...same with every living organism on this planet.

The best part I think is that there exists the possibility for creationism and evolution to coexist. Just because we know we evolved doesn't dismiss the potential liklihood that we did so to a grand design. Our current species could be simply the final version of a cumulative project. "God" a disenfranchised Genetic Engineer failed dozens of times in taking a foreign cell structure and making it into his image, until one day he succeeded in tweaking genetics to the point that "WE" blinked into existence. **** for all we know Neanderthals were just a failed genetic concept that should have stayed on the drawing board in the heavens. Perhaps Satan got tired of Gods sh*tting up natural processes and decided to go rouge and protect a singular species from further genetic modification, maybe we are rooting for the wrong guy?

Its not really any different from us having the potential to impact the evolutionary process. You could say that we have created microorganisms that are much stronger and adaptive than they ever were going to be naturally. We observe this all the time from illnesses being immune to certain remedies, right up to insects becoming immune to certain pesticides. Technically you could argue that we have been responsible for the creation of whole new subspecies because of our tampering in the natural way of things....

or we are just along for a ride on a roller coaster we can't get off.

Edited, Feb 6th 2014 3:24pm by rdmcandie
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#79 Feb 06 2014 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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I actually like the wiki section on Theories and Laws (on the Scientific Theory page).

Quote:
Both scientific laws and scientific theories are produced from the scientific method through the formation and testing of hypotheses, and can predict the behavior of the natural world. Both are typically well-supported by observations and/or experimental evidence.[23] However, scientific laws are descriptive accounts of how nature will behave under certain conditions.[24] Scientific theories are broader in scope, and give overarching explanations of how nature works and why it exhibits certain characteristics. Theories are supported by evidence from many different sources, and may contain one or several laws.[25]

A common misconception is that scientific theories are rudimentary ideas that will eventually graduate into scientific laws when enough data and evidence has been accumulated. A theory does not change into a scientific law with the accumulation of new or better evidence. A theory will always remain a theory; a law will always remain a law.[23][26]

Theories and laws are also distinct from hypotheses. Unlike hypotheses, theories and laws may be simply referred to as scientific fact.[27][28]


People tend to think of theories as things that "need evidence." That's not the case. A Scientific Theory is something that has progressed WELL past the threshold for proof.
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#80 Feb 06 2014 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Right. Evolution is a theory like gravity is a theory.

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#81 Feb 06 2014 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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Gravity was made up by the British government to fool German pilots in the Second World War.
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#82 Feb 06 2014 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, good job! Well done, lads.
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#83 Feb 06 2014 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly, I don't think anyone expected this one to be so successful. If anyone at GCHQ was capable of feeling it, it'd be a real source of embarrassment.

No choice but to play along now, really. It's really holding back the space programme, but what can you do.
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#84 Feb 06 2014 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
No choice but to play along now, really. It's really holding back the space programme, but what can you do.


This seems appropriate. (Eddie Izzard is always appropriate.)


#85 Feb 06 2014 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Evolution the noun is a theory explaining why some birds have long beaks and humans have a tailbone, etc etc.

You can sell it that way if you want. You could also say evolution is a theory explaining why your doctor is prescribing you a different medication for your now drug resistant viral infection.
#86 Feb 07 2014 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The best part I think is that there exists the possibility for creationism and evolution to coexist. Just because we know we evolved doesn't dismiss the potential liklihood that we did so to a grand design. Our current species could be simply the final version of a cumulative project. "God" a disenfranchised Genetic Engineer failed dozens of times in taking a foreign cell structure and making it into his image, until one day he succeeded in tweaking genetics to the point that "WE" blinked into existence. **** for all we know Neanderthals were just a failed genetic concept that should have stayed on the drawing board in the heavens. Perhaps Satan got tired of Gods sh*tting up natural processes and decided to go rouge and protect a singular species from further genetic modification, maybe we are rooting for the wrong guy?


I don't know about a 'grand design', but I do agree that there's room for both. The amazing thing about belief in the major religions is that you can replace the word "angels" with the word "aliens" and suddenly, the stories make sense as interpretations of things humans didn't have the language to explain when the texts were written.

Were we ooze? Probably. Why are there still apes? A subset of apes, perhaps the most advanced ones on the planet when "God" arrived here were altered in some way and set on a different path. Those non-coding sequences someone mentioned? Some of it isn't seen in anything else on the entire planet.

This path of study is fascinating because we are an entire race with a really bad case of amnesia. *Something* happened, but we don't know what it was. We've had influence and help from *someone*, but we don't know who it is.

I say teach both in schools, but in their respective places. We're eventually going to find the link between the two, and we do need to keep what little memory of our history we do have alive.
#87 Feb 07 2014 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Uh.
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#88 Feb 07 2014 at 8:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uh.

Smiley: laugh


Smiley: um
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#89 Feb 07 2014 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Right. Evolution is a theory like gravity is a theory.

I tend to equate it with plate tectonics, but that's just the abused geologist in me.

The point being that Evolution - science is all about the observable, the provable, the repeatable. Religion is profoundly not.

The two can coexist and have through out humanity. The creationists of today don't seem faithful or devoted. Their goals seem completely political in nature versus spiritual.




Edited, Feb 7th 2014 4:11pm by Elinda
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#90 Feb 07 2014 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Why are there still apes?
Because they choose to stay apes. Why do you hate freedom and liberty?
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#91 Feb 07 2014 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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#92 Feb 07 2014 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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The two can coexist

Nope. You can't have "truth is what we observe in nature validated by experiment and repetition" "coexist" with "truth is what the invisible man in the sky had a fellow write down in a book 5000 years ago"


and have through out humanity.

Yeah, 'coexist'. There's never been any attempt by organized religion to hamper scientific inquiry.

Grow the fuck up and just post "I think religion is ok and helps people". You don't have to spin this imaginary ******** out of whole cloth to somehow justify religion and science coexisting when there's no historical basis for it. You'd be wrong, obviously, but at least not willfully ignorant or intellectually dishonest.
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#93 Feb 07 2014 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
The two can coexist

Nope. You can't have "truth is what we observe in nature validated by experiment and repetition" "coexist" with "truth is what the invisible man in the sky had a fellow write down in a book 5000 years ago"

You can observe and even search for truth and still be faithful to a higher power.




Quote:
Grow the @#%^ up and just post "I think religion is ok and helps people". You don't have to spin this imaginary bullsh*t out of whole cloth to somehow justify religion and science coexisting when there's no historical basis for it. You'd be wrong, obviously, but at least not willfully ignorant or intellectually dishonest.
You grow the @#%^ up and admit that maybe there are limits to our feeble little human minds and there are things we'll never understand.

edit - god why is it so hard to say the f-word around here?!



Edited, Feb 7th 2014 4:43pm by Elinda
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#94 Feb 07 2014 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Eatin' bananas and playing with your dong ain't that bad of a life.

Specially if you got a pet frog.
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#95 Feb 07 2014 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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You can observe and even search for truth and still be faithful to a higher power.

No, you can't. You can compartmentalize part of yourself and limit your 'search for truth' to a subset of things because you 'believe' something you don't want to see threatened. What you can't do is adhere to two philosophies about the unknown that are mutually exclusive. The function of both religion and science is to explain the unknown. Two methods, on authoritarian, one experimental. One adapts to data that doesn't meet expectations, one appeals to mystery and mysticism. It's virtually impossible that religion is "right" about *anything*. The instant a religion offers some idea it quantifies as 'truth' it's doing harm to science.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#96 Feb 07 2014 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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You grow the @#%^ up and admit that maybe there are limits to our feeble little human minds and there are things we'll never understand.

Yours? Sure.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#97 Feb 07 2014 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
"truth is what the invisible man in the sky had a fellow write down in a book 5000 years ago"

How come you need to automatically just jump to the Abrahamic religions, Smash? Is it because you're racist?

I'm petitioning for my son's biology class to teach that marine life was formed from Sedna's severed fingers.
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#98 Feb 07 2014 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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#99 Feb 07 2014 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
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How come you need to automatically just jump to the Abrahamic religions, Smash? Is it because you're racist?

I'm petitioning for my son's biology class to teach that marine life was formed from Sedna's severed fingers.


Had to look that up. Good story, I'll have to show it to Hannah later.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#100 Feb 07 2014 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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#101 Feb 07 2014 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Outside my workplace is a sign that says "Deliveries in the rear". I try to live by it.
Sounds like more of a Google thing.
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