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#1 Jan 27 2014 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
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There is nothing like religious education funded with your tax dollars. I don't really mind, creation myths of all sorts should be taught; if only to let the kids notice that there is more than one.

Still , I found it interesting that Texas is hardly represented here.
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#2 Jan 27 2014 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
Hey, maybe it's just my experience and I was the anomaly.

But let me say that growing up through the Texas public school system, I was taught evolution, and nothing but, the entire time. Not a word on religion (my school district actually had quite a few lawsuits over religion and its presence in schools over the years), and any school district worth its salt was the same.

But I really would appreciate it if people stopped trying to so obviously stir the pot by painting the image that all Texan schools are back-country hicks that believe Evolution is Darwin/Satan trying to tempt people to sin and a life of ****. Believe it or not, that's not the norm.

****, I even had a girl in my college Biology lecture from small-town middle of nowhere Texas ask the professor, "Wait, there are people who actually don't believe in evolution?"
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#3CoalHeart, Posted: Jan 27 2014 at 9:23 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't think that either should be taught in a science class as the origin of life.
#4 Jan 27 2014 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Hey, maybe it's just my experience and I was the anomaly.

But let me say that growing up through the Texas public school system, I was taught evolution, and nothing but, the entire time. Not a word on religion (my school district actually had quite a few lawsuits over religion and its presence in schools over the years), and any school district worth its salt was the same.

But I really would appreciate it if people stopped trying to so obviously stir the pot by painting the image that all Texan schools are back-country hicks that believe Evolution is Darwin/Satan trying to tempt people to sin and a life of ****. Believe it or not, that's not the norm.

****, I even had a girl in my college Biology lecture from small-town middle of nowhere Texas ask the professor, "Wait, there are people who actually don't believe in evolution?"


The problem with stereotypes is that they have come from somewhere; even if they are untrue now, there was something to them a while ago.
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#5 Jan 27 2014 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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CoalHeart wrote:
I don't think that either should be taught in a science class as the origin of life.

Creationism fails to provide what most would consider empirical, quantifiable data, complete with verifiable predictions.

Evolutionary theory does have representative data and makes verifiable predictions, but it only pertains to life that already exists.


Neither theory explains the origin of life in a repeatable manner. Either God(s) magically created us, or inert, primordial soup magically came to life.

If a science class really is based on "facts", then the correct answer at this point to the origin of life question is "We don't actually know".



Well, in religion's defense it is hard to verify: "You are going to ****" until after the fact.
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#6 Jan 27 2014 at 11:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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IDrownFish wrote:
But I really would appreciate it if people stopped trying to so obviously stir the pot by painting the image that all Texan schools are back-country hicks that believe Evolution is Darwin/Satan trying to tempt people to sin and a life of ****.

I don't think of you guys like that, I just like to think you guys all wear cowboy boots and hats and walk around with your hands on the revolvers on your belt and chewing tobacco like a bad western.
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#7 Jan 28 2014 at 1:14 AM Rating: Good
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#8 Jan 28 2014 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Neither theory explains the origin of life in a repeatable manner. Either God(s) magically created us, or inert, primordial soup magically came to life.


Or "no one knows". Not that hard, is it? "We have absolutely no idea about how or why some things happen".
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#9 Jan 28 2014 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was never taught that evolution is the explanation of the genesis of 'life'. It was taught to me as a scientific concept - theory if you will, that explained how life forms adapt and change biologically over generations.

It's still a valid theory.

As far as i can tell creationism, doesn't attempt to explain adaptation or genetic change.
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#10 Jan 28 2014 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Coalheart wrote:
Either God(s) magically created us, or inert, primordial soup magically came to life. Or maybe it's something else entirely.


Unlike religion, science is capable of accepting ambiguity. "We don't know yet" is not the same as "magic!"

"Something else entirely" would be the missing information, information that we may yet uncover. It may very well turn out that under the right circumstances, complex proteins coalescing into primitive life is inevitable, and the only chance involved is whether it is viable over the long term - whether it can evolve to survive and thrive in all the various niches in its environment.

Religion wants answers right now, because its primary functions are to cohere and soothe - to bring its followers together, to control their behavior, and to comfort them. Science can wait for definitive answers.

Creation myths are fascinating. By all means, teach them. But keep them where they belong, in anthropology, in comparative religion. Not science.
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#11 Jan 28 2014 at 8:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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As far as i can tell creationism, doesn't attempt to explain adaptation or genetic change.

Sure it does: God A-wizard-who-definitely-may-or-may-not-be-a-higher-power did it!
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#12 Jan 28 2014 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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All the pictures of God I've seen make him look like a wizard.
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#13 Jan 28 2014 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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#14 Jan 28 2014 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
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#15 Jan 28 2014 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dressed more like a magician than a wizard in that goofy-*** coat.
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#16 Jan 28 2014 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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#17 Jan 28 2014 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
As far as i can tell creationism, doesn't attempt to explain adaptation or genetic change.


From what I understand of creationism, there has been no adaption or genetic change as far as humans go.

I once had a Baptist preacher tell me, however, that evolution (of animals only) is in the Bible when it talked about the animals crawling out of the sea and stuff.
#18 Jan 28 2014 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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My favorite rebuttal against the Creationists is the "curse of Eve."

Yeah, turns out chimpanzees menstruate, too. Eve was an ape.
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#19 Jan 28 2014 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Huh? God didn't curse Eve with menstruation, he cursed her with painful childbirth (Genesis 3:16)

Talmudic law stated that a menstruating woman is unclean, but it says the same about a man who ejaculated that day.

Edited, Jan 28th 2014 10:19am by Jophiel
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#20 Jan 28 2014 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I once had a Baptist preacher tell me, however, that evolution (of animals only) is in the Bible when it talked about the animals crawling out of the sea and stuff.
That would be one way of reconciling the two, and something I've heard more than a few times from more scientifically inclined religious people I know.

The idea is that the first chapter of Genesis correlates in a loose sense with the general formation of the world taught in normal science classes (big void filled with dust and gas, planets form, different animals come about at different times, finally people at the end of it all, etc). Something like Moses (he wrote Genesis right? It's been too long...) was shown a vision of the formation and history of the planet thousands of years ago, and that was his best attempt to condense and explain it all to the ignorant masses of his time. They would argue the fact there's a reasonable degree of correlation there as proof it was authentic.

For what it's worth I'll take it. It seems more reasonable than arguing the world is 6,000 years old or whatever the official line is these days. Smiley: rolleyes
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#21 Jan 28 2014 at 11:24 AM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Huh? God didn't curse Eve with menstruation, he cursed her with painful childbirth (Genesis 3:16)

Talmudic law stated that a menstruating woman is unclean, but it says the same about a man who ejaculated that day.


Trust me, the pain of severe menstrual cramps can approach childbirth on bad days. Smiley: frown
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#22 Jan 28 2014 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, no.
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#23 Jan 28 2014 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Talmudic law stated that a menstruating woman is unclean, but it says the same about a man who ejaculated that day.


By himself, or while watching the woman?
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#24 Jan 28 2014 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Talmudic law stated that a menstruating woman is unclean, but it says the same about a man who ejaculated that day.


By himself, or while watching the woman?
Your kink is not my kink...
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#25 Jan 28 2014 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Talmudic law stated that a menstruating woman is unclean, but it says the same about a man who ejaculated that day.


By himself, or while watching the woman?
Your kink is not my kink...


Just trying to figure out the "that day" part of Joph's post.
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#26 Jan 28 2014 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Talmudic law stated that a menstruating woman is unclean, but it says the same about a man who ejaculated that day.


By himself, or while watching the woman?
Your kink is not my kink...


Just trying to figure out the "that day" part of Joph's post.


The day that he ejaculated... Not the day before or the day after, just the day that he ejaculated.
#27 Jan 28 2014 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you *** on the same day a woman is menstruating you go to ****. Which sounds about right from everything I remember about Sunday school.
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#28 Jan 28 2014 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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#29 Jan 28 2014 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Being "unclean" didn't send you to ****. It just kept you from performing in various rituals and from going to the temple. In of itself, it wasn't sinful.
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#30 Jan 28 2014 at 12:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
If you *** on the same day a woman is menstruating you go to ****. Which sounds about right from everything I remember about Sunday school.



Well, by definition you've spilled your seed, since even if you were having *** with that dirty, dirty girl it wouldn't result in pregnancy. So, yeah.

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#31 Jan 28 2014 at 12:56 PM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
Yeah, no.


Yeah, yes. I had to miss school a lot as a teenager because I was crippled with pain. My ever helpful Catholic mother said "offer it up." Years later, my gynecologist said, "That's what BC pills are for."

And I have been in much less pain ever since. Smiley: nod
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#32 Jan 28 2014 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, no.
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#33 Jan 28 2014 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
Samira wrote:
Yeah, no.


Yeah, yes. I had to miss school a lot as a teenager because I was crippled with pain. My ever helpful Catholic mother said "offer it up." Years later, my gynecologist said, "That's what BC pills are for."

And I have been in much less pain ever since. Smiley: nod

If your periods were that painful, childbirth will probably be horrendous for you.

Pushing a kid our your ****** is a whole different level of pain than passing menses.








Edited, Jan 28th 2014 8:18pm by Elinda
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#34 Jan 28 2014 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Samira wrote:
Yeah, no.


Yeah, yes. I had to miss school a lot as a teenager because I was crippled with pain. My ever helpful Catholic mother said "offer it up." Years later, my gynecologist said, "That's what BC pills are for."

And I have been in much less pain ever since. Smiley: nod

If your periods were that painful, childbirth will probably be horrendous for you.

Pushing a kid our your ****** is a whole different level of pain than passing menses.


Would be, anyway. I've voluntarily removed myself from the gene pool, assuming the screwed up plumbing would even work (doctors say probably not.)

The sister who shares my condition and yet finally managed to procreate says her childbirth pains were only slightly worse than her worst cramps.
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#35 Jan 28 2014 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
The sister who shares my condition and yet finally managed to procreate says her childbirth pains were only slightly worse than her worst cramps.


Right, but you've said she's insane, so there's that.
#36 Jan 28 2014 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Catwho wrote:
The sister who shares my condition and yet finally managed to procreate says her childbirth pains were only slightly worse than her worst cramps.
Right, but you've said she's insane, so there's that.


Well, if bipolar is insane, perhaps so.
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#37 Jan 28 2014 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Catwho wrote:
The sister who shares my condition and yet finally managed to procreate says her childbirth pains were only slightly worse than her worst cramps.
Right, but you've said she's insane, so there's that.


Well, if bipolar is insane, perhaps so.


Is this not the "mentally ill sister who has the functionality of a 10 year old?"
#38 Jan 28 2014 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Catwho wrote:
The sister who shares my condition and yet finally managed to procreate says her childbirth pains were only slightly worse than her worst cramps.
Right, but you've said she's insane, so there's that.


Well, if bipolar is insane, perhaps so.


Is this not the "mentally ill sister who has the functionality of a 10 year old?"


Nope, thank god. Oldest is bipolar and has a kid. 2nd oldest is the schizophrenic.

I am supposedly the sane one.
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#39 Jan 29 2014 at 2:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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How about least crazy?
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#40 Feb 04 2014 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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NPR Two-Way debate:
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Tonight at 7 p.m. ET, it's evolution vs. creationism when Bill Nye "the science guy" and Ken Ham, founder of the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Ky., debate on stage.

You can listen live on You Tube HERE.





Edited, Feb 4th 2014 7:27pm by Elinda
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#41 Feb 04 2014 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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You can listen live on You Tube HERE.

Pointless. I understand his motivation, but all this does is lend false equivalency to the Creation Museum guy. "Look two sides of a debate where there is no fact checking or scoring, believing in either must be equally valid."

There's no "winning" this debate for Nye. No one is going to see it and think "wait, I'm actually *not* a creationist! That science fellow made some good arguments that really made me think!"
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#42 Feb 04 2014 at 12:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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I hope it turns into a fist fight. Or a limp wrist slap fight at least.
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#43 Feb 04 2014 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
There's no "winning" this debate for Nye. No one is going to see it and think "wait, I'm actually *not* a creationist! That science fellow made some good arguments that really made me think!"


His goal is Nye impossible, eh?

Perhaps he should try killing everyone who doesn't agree with him. That'd solve his problem.
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#44 Feb 04 2014 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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His goal is Nye impossible, eh?

Perhaps he should try killing everyone who doesn't agree with him. That'd solve his problem.


I'm partial to that solution, but those people probably have families. Killing the families would make it take to long.
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#45 Feb 04 2014 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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You can listen live on You Tube HERE.

Pointless. I understand his motivation, but all this does is lend false equivalency to the Creation Museum guy. "Look two sides of a debate where there is no fact checking or scoring, believing in either must be equally valid."

There's no "winning" this debate for Nye. No one is going to see it and think "wait, I'm actually *not* a creationist! That science fellow made some good arguments that really made me think!"


He's not trying to win the debate, he's doing it for exposure. It's fairly likely that he has a new venture planned in the near future, and he wants his brand in the public sphere. This is an incredibly low risk opportunity for him, as he can't lose the debate such that it would negatively affect his future viewership. He's likely calculated that now is a prime time to launch something as his BNTSG viewership is now at an age where they would like something new in that sphere.
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Kavekk wrote:

His goal is Nye impossible, eh?


That was pretty good.

I think Kreationism Ken has more to gain from this little encounter. The debate is gonna be at his new Museum.
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#47 Feb 04 2014 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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He knows the adults in the room have already lost. He's hoping he can make a couple of the kids in the room go "Gee, that Nye guy said stuff that made a lot of sense. Why do my parents believe the other guy, again?"

I think if he can reach just one child trapped in fundie land, he's won the debate. Even if it might take them a few years to change their minds.
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#48 Feb 04 2014 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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He's not trying to win the debate, he's doing it for exposure. It's fairly likely that he has a new venture planned in the near future, and he wants his brand in the public sphere. This is an incredibly low risk opportunity for him, as he can't lose the debate such that it would negatively affect his future viewership. He's likely calculated that now is a prime time to launch something as his BNTSG viewership is now at an age where they would like something new in that sphere.

I doubt it. He's been doing this for a while now, I think it's just his current vocation, arguing with climate change deniers or creationists. When he's not doing c list celebrity appearances or "Dancing With the Stars" or whathaveyou. Rarely possible to be overly cynical of public figure's motivations, though, so you may be right.
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#49 Feb 04 2014 at 6:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's not a debate so far... they each gave 5 minute opening statements, and now they're giving 30 minute speeches on their model.

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Smasharoo wrote:
I doubt it. He's been doing this for a while now, I think it's just his current vocation, arguing with climate change deniers or creationists.


I've only noticed him showing up on the political talk circuit for maybe the last 6 months or so. Quite possible that I've just missed him (not like I sit at home scanning CNN/Fox/MSNBC all night or anything). I just remember seeing him on some show fairly recently and thinking "Hey. It's that science guy. I've never seen him on a political show before". Again, could have just been missing his appearances over the last several years or whatnot, but to me it does kinda look like this is more of a "new thing" for him.
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
It's not a debate so far... they each gave 5 minute opening statements, and now they're giving 30 minute speeches on their model.


That's just a different format of debate than most of us are used to.
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
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