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Those Crazy EgyptiansFollow

#1 Jul 01 2013 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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So, in case you haven't been paying attention, the people of Egypt are back in the streets protesting, rioting (in some cases) and calling for President Morsi to step down. Complaints range from economic to dissatisfaction with how the Muslim Brotherhood has imposed itself into the government. The police have largely sided with the protesters and did nothing to stop the crowds from ransacking the Muslim Brotherhood offices this weekend.

Now the Egyptian military has warned Morsi that he has 48 hours to restore order or they'll do it for him, potentially leading to another military led coup like the one that ousted President Mubarak not so long ago and helped start off the Arab Spring.

Potentially good news if it represents a swing towards a more secular government in Egypt and acts as a warning to other Islamic "Arab Spring" governments not to exceed their grasp. Bad news as a (former?) US ally and important regional partner undergoes another round of upheaval with an uncertain conclusion.
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#2 Jul 01 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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Between them and the Turkish folks, it's a fun few weeks in the Middle East.
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#3 Jul 01 2013 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd say the whole region is going to **** in a handbasket; if it hadn't already been that way for the last 6,000 years.
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#4 Jul 01 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah. "The People" of Egypt decided to rise up against the government they installed because it was adhering to the set of ideals they also voted for, then at *definitely* not coordinated time the military stepped in to apply pressure. The military the US funds to the tune of multiple billions of dollars where the career path is "get to a position where you can sell arms for profit".

All very organic. The tricky part is that another election cannot be allowed to take place any time soon. Best outcome for "The People" of Egypt is to depose the Islamist government and to submit to military rule. For freedom.
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#5 Jul 01 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Estimates for the protests are between 14 million and 17 million.

If we can get ~15 million Egyptians to start storming the castle via secret machinations, good for us.
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#6 Jul 01 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
If we can get ~15 million Egyptians to start storming the castle via secret machinations, good for us.
It'll take a miracle.
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#7 Jul 01 2013 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Causes stemming from both the Muslim Brotherhood & economic:
The Atlantic wrote:
Last year, Morsi pushed through a new constitution for Egypt despite objections and a boycott by liberal, leftist, and minority groups. He then issued a statement granting himself powers beyond the courts' reach, a move that drew sharp criticism from opponents. But Morsi said the declaration was necessary because the country needed a constitution and the courts were standing in the way.

What is seen by Brotherhood members as necessary in a post-revolution Egypt is viewed as an attempt to co-opt the revolution by the opposition. They point out that Morsi has allowed the prosecution and arrest of journalists and politicians that have spoken out against him, like the popular comedian Bassem Yousuf.
The Atlantic wrote:
Sunday's protests were not the first against Morsi. Anger over Morsi's attempt to grant himself new powers simmered over into large protests last December, which resulted in at least five deaths.

The difference this time, though, is that Morsi's failures have hit every Egyptian, and hit them hard. "The electricity used to not go out for a whole year," said Ali Shinawi, in the village of Damas, north of Cairo. "Now it goes out two hours every day." The power cuts have hit everywhere, even Cairo.

For the last three weeks, Egyptians have also been dealing with a severe gasoline shortage. Lines stretching for several kilometers are a common sight, tying up traffic on roads and highways and sparking violence between drivers. The Morsi government says the problem is being caused by smugglers who sell the fuel on the black market and deplete the supply for everyone else. But critics say the Brotherhood insists on keeping fuel prices extremely low. Egyptians pay only about $0.50 per gallon for gasoline, which is heavily subsidized. To pay for the difference, the government takes out loans, and in the past few months, Egypt's creditors have come asking for payments.

Not that I'd doubt the US would involve itself. With the Egyptian military, with economic aid payments, etc. But the president "the people" voted in seems to be viewed as a failure with things worse off than they were previously.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:38pm by Jophiel
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#8 Jul 01 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Estimates for the protests are between 14 million and 17 million.

If we can get ~15 million Egyptians to start storming the castle via secret machinations, good for us.


Oh, well that settles it, then. Heavens knows it's nearly impossible to manipulate a large number of people into doing something with the promise of being part of a "movement". I'd ponder how difficult this was in a free society, but I have to go to a tea party.

I'll wager you some small item, a sausage or a box of perogi or whatever it is you people hold valuable against a can of corned beef hash that the only two outcomes here are the current government stays in power, or there is a military replacement. There will be no legitimate elections (let's say as judged by the UN) prior to Jan 1, 2016.


Not that I'd doubt the US would involve itself. With the Egyptian military, with economic aid payments, etc. But the president "the people" voted in seems to be viewed as a failure with things worse off than they were previously.


Has he set up death panels yet? Wasn't he born in Israel?

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 1:42pm by Smasharoo
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#9 Jul 01 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Heavens knows it's nearly impossible to manipulate a large number of people into doing something with the promise of being part of a "movement". I'd ponder how difficult this was in a free society, but I have to go to a tea party.

With proper catalyst? Sure. The GOP did a great job of drumming up a bunch of fears about the health care bill and spending.
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I'll wager you some small item, a sausage or a box of perogi or whatever it is you people hold valuable against a can of corned beef hash that the only two outcomes here are the current government stays in power, or there is a military replacement. There will be no legitimate elections (let's say as judged by the UN) prior to Jan 1, 2016.

I'd make the wager for a chance at a free sausage but I'm not sure why you bring this up. I never said or even tried to imply that there'd be free democratic elections on the near horizon as a result. I said there may be a more secular government, in which I'd consider military rule.
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#10 Jul 01 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd make the wager for a chance at a free sausage but I'm not sure why you bring this up. I never said or even tried to imply that there'd be free democratic elections on the near horizon as a result. I said there may be a more secular government, in which I'd consider military rule.

Because wagering on "there may be a more secular government, possibly or not, one of these days, maybe soon or maybe later" is unwieldy. I'm not pretending to know the outcome, I have no knowledge of anything in Egypt that I haven't gathered from the news. I do enjoy a wager with inconsequential stakes, though.
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#11 Jul 02 2013 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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Bet $50. You know you want to.
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#12 Jul 02 2013 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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Now the Egyptian Military leader dude, is all like, "hey you guys figure out what you wanna do and we'll make it happen."
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#13 Jul 02 2013 at 7:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bet $50. You know you want to.

Smiley: mad
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#14 Jul 02 2013 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:

I'd make the wager for a chance at a free sausage ....

Who wouldn't. Specially when all you've got to lose is a corned beef hash (from a can no less).
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#15 Jul 02 2013 at 8:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Bet $50. You know you want to.

It would appear we have differing views of consequential stakes. This is pretty much identical for me to betting a nickel. I really need to get into 5 figures to feel anything like anxiety or excitement over a bet.
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#16 Jul 02 2013 at 9:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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I bet you a million-billion dollars that the sphinx will come to life and eat Morsi.
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#17 Jul 02 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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Who know what a sphinx thinks, when a Spinx thinks....
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#18 Jul 02 2013 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I bet you a million-billion dollars that the sphinx will come to life and eat Morsi.
Hollywood is already making the movie to release alongside the news.
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#19 Jul 02 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
It would appear we have differing views of consequential stakes.
Apparently it was like a ten page inside joke.
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#20 Jul 02 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I bet you a million-billion dollars that the sphinx will come to life and eat Morsi.

Losing that bet would be awesome.
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#21 Jul 02 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Apparently it was like a ten page inside joke.
Not anymore.

leaker
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#22 Jul 02 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Update:
Al Jazeera wrote:
The Egyptian army has said it will suspend the constitution, dissolve parliament and force fresh elections if politicians cannot meet a looming deadline to resolve the country's political crisis, according to Reuters news agency.

The announcement on Tuesday came a day after the military gave politicians 48 hours to come to an agreement and calm mass protests against the rule of President Mohamed Morsi – leaving only 24 hours for a solution to be found.

An army source told the Reuters that the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces was still discussing details and the plan, and it could change based on political developments and consultations.
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#23 Jul 02 2013 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
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Without knowing much (read: anything) about the local political situation, you'd still have to think that a year isn't really all that much time to turn around a country, right? They had one of the highest unemployment rates, especially among the youth, in the world, and the entire region has been a bit unstable for the past decade or so, even by Middle East standards.

Surely a military coup can't help the situation, at least in the short term. Not only that, but "military coup" isn't something that generally occurs in stable democracies, which these folk seem to think they want.
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#24 Jul 02 2013 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Egypt's military Coups are always amusing, because we gave them an M1-A1 Abrahms main battle tank factory. Yeah. That M1-A1. It seemed like a good idea at the time? They never sent us a Tank You card though.
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#25 Jul 03 2013 at 12:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Update:
Al Jazeera wrote:
The Egyptian army has said it will suspend the constitution, dissolve parliament and force fresh elections if politicians cannot meet a looming deadline to resolve the country's political crisis, according to Reuters news agency.

Man, why can't *our* army do that for us here?
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#26 Jul 03 2013 at 3:25 AM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
Without knowing much (read: anything) about the local political situation, you'd still have to think that a year isn't really all that much time to turn around a country, right? They had one of the highest unemployment rates, especially among the youth, in the world, and the entire region has been a bit unstable for the past decade or so, even by Middle East standards.

Surely a military coup can't help the situation, at least in the short term. Not only that, but "military coup" isn't something that generally occurs in stable democracies, which these folk seem to think they want.
I think their main problem with Morsi is how he was/is putting himself above the law, trying to become the next dictator.
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#28 Jul 03 2013 at 7:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Update:
Al Jazeera wrote:
The Egyptian army has said it will suspend the constitution, dissolve parliament and force fresh elections if politicians cannot meet a looming deadline to resolve the country's political crisis, according to Reuters news agency.
Man, why can't *our* army do that for us here?
We've had meetings, but ultimately couldn't decide on who to put in charge afterwards.
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#29 Jul 03 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Update:
Al Jazeera wrote:
The Egyptian army has said it will suspend the constitution, dissolve parliament and force fresh elections if politicians cannot meet a looming deadline to resolve the country's political crisis, according to Reuters news agency.
Man, why can't *our* army do that for us here?
We've had meetings, but ultimately couldn't decide on who to put in charge afterwards.


I said I would quadruple military spending across the board and give everyone a free camouflage helicopter beanie, what else do you want???

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#30 Jul 03 2013 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Update:
Al Jazeera wrote:
The Egyptian army has said it will suspend the constitution, dissolve parliament and force fresh elections if politicians cannot meet a looming deadline to resolve the country's political crisis, according to Reuters news agency.
Man, why can't *our* army do that for us here?
We've had meetings, but ultimately couldn't decide on who to put in charge afterwards.


I said I would quadruple military spending across the board and give everyone a free camouflage helicopter beanie, what else do you want???

Kaolian Drachensborn, Supreme Dictator / Emperor for Life of Doom!

Dude, you can't even get a bridge built.
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#31 Jul 03 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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And then they got rid of their president.
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#32 Jul 03 2013 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Yay. Not impossible this was all a long con to draw the MB out into the open using the idea of power as a way to infiltrate and locate their resources. Now you install the new puppet leader and profit!
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#33 Jul 03 2013 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Yay. Not impossible this was all a long con to draw the MB out into the open using the idea of power as a way to infiltrate and locate their resources. Now you install the new puppet leader and profit!


"Not impossible" meaning "We should have thought of that!".
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#34 Jul 03 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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...Meanwhile, in iRaq...
#35 Jul 03 2013 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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#36 Jul 03 2013 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
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"Not impossible" meaning "We should have thought of that!".


We "think of that" for pretty much any possible outcome. Successfully executing such an idea is a different matter. I imagine what we "thought of" in terms of execution was close ties and intense pressure on Egypt's military to enforce change on any government that threatened the status quo around Israel, Sinai, Suez, etc. Obviously we've had and will continue to have operators on the ground in Egypt, but we have operators in Canada and the UK, so not something I'd see as overly arch. Problem is, assuming we get to elections any time soon, that rural Egyptians vote for conservative Islamist candidates, and they're most of the electorate. I'd assume we just rig the next ones to bring a moderate technocrat to power.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#37 Jul 03 2013 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
[b] I'd assume we just rig the next ones to bring a moderate technocrat to power.

Wait, weren't those the ones betrayed by Senator Palpatine and murdered by Darth Anakin?
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#38 Jul 03 2013 at 4:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can't see this ending well.

The whole 52% of the country being forced out by 48% of the country thing, democratically elected leader that became significantly less popular over time, etc. Seems like there's a lot to do to get the sides doing something resembling working together, and no real reason for either to back down at this point. Both have large numbers of supporters and power bases where they share a sizable majority. Here's to hoping this can diffuse without too much bloodshed.
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#39 Jul 03 2013 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
I can't see this ending well.

The whole 52% of the country being forced out by 48% of the country thing, democratically elected leader that became significantly less popular over time, etc. Seems like there's a lot to do to get the sides doing something resembling working together, and no real reason for either to back down at this point. Both have large numbers of supporters and power bases where they share a sizable majority. Here's to hoping this can diffuse without too much bloodshed.

How about we take back all the toys we've given them and let them settle their own business? I know, Smash is gonna come by and tell me how stupid and naieve I am but we're just gonna end up going back in a generation or so and assassinating someone.
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#40 Jul 03 2013 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
How about we take back all the toys we've given them and let them settle their own business?
They already sold them all to the terrorists. Smiley: wink

We seem pretty content to let them duke it out at the moment though. Egypt, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan; If I didn't know better I'd say our foreign policy in the region was simply to destabilize it as much as possible.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 3:37pm by someproteinguy
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#41 Jul 03 2013 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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How about we take back all the toys we've given them and let them settle their own business?

The taking back bit is more challenging than you'd probably assume at first glance. If we cut off support, they have other options like blockading the Suez Canal or invading Israel. Both of which the US could resolve, but not for free, and probably not with global support. Much easier to rule the important stuff by proxy and not care if the dirt farming peasants all starve or not.
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#42 Jul 03 2013 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok...more weapons then! I mean, a *lot* more. How about a few nukes mounted on missiles with a range of 100 miles?
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#43 Jul 03 2013 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Ok...more weapons then! I mean, a *lot* more. How about a few nukes mounted on missiles with a range of 100 miles rigged to detonate upon launch?

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#44 Jul 03 2013 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Ok...more weapons then! I mean, a *lot* more. How about a few nukes mounted on missiles with a range of 100 miles rigged to detonate upon launch?

Well, you'd need one **** of an undercover detective and a street-rat from the neighborhood to make sure it goes off in the right place.
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#45 Jul 04 2013 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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It should be alright as long he has a monkey with a sword.
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#46 Jul 04 2013 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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#47 Jul 04 2013 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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With a judge running the country, I'm sure matters will unfold in a manner precisely according to the letter of the law.
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#48 Jul 04 2013 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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He can proactively decide what laws need to stand and which ones should be scrapped. Clearly nothing can go wrong with that plan.
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#49 Jul 04 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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#50 Jul 05 2013 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Ok...more weapons then! I mean, a *lot* more. How about a few nukes mounted on missiles with a range of 100 yards?


That's plenty. Smiley: nod
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That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#51 Jul 06 2013 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
Ministry of Silly Cnuts
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19,492 posts
I understand the Egyptian military is entirely dependent on US funding, and that under US law, said funding has to cease if the military undertake a coup.

Which probably explains why the western media are calling it everything but a coup d'état. Smiley: dubious

The MB's fall from favoUr may be a small setback, but I remain confident that my grandchildren will see a Caliphate that runs from Morocco to Chechnya.

Mission Accomplished, right kids? Smiley: oyvey
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"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
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