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Well, sh*t. Now what?Follow

#52 Jul 03 2013 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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I'm sure there's a gay country musician around somewhere so why not both?


Edit: Screw you Shaow.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 3:05pm by Aethien
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#53 Jul 03 2013 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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Silly rabbits. Why do we need bridges when we have flying cars?? I've been told they're almost ready for production, I've been saving up.

Regardless, good luck Kao. Perhaps they'll bring you in for the flying car project!
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#54 Jul 03 2013 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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Kakar wrote:
Why do we need bridges when we have flying cars??
Crash them into the ravine and let all the other cars drive over them.
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#55 Jul 03 2013 at 7:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Screenshot


This seems like a situation for going full wombat.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 8:45pm by Jophiel
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#56 Jul 03 2013 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
Worst. Title. Ever!
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How the hell did you find that?
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#57 Jul 04 2013 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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I'd say a newspaper, but those don't exist anymore.
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#58 Jul 05 2013 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Screenshot


This seems like a situation for going full wombat.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 8:45pm by Jophiel



Smiley: clap
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#59 Jul 05 2013 at 10:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Because I was reading it today

Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
So we have a narrow, extremely top heavy old frail bridge that will fall over in any large earthquake. We can't even reinforce the bridge piers because it would narrow the shipping channel and the coast guard vetoed that. The bridge has already been hit by at least 30 barges over the years. So yeah. I do not envy whoever is on that thing when the earthquake happens...


Oregonian wrote:
Columbia River Crossing managers spent more than $175 million in public funds planning a bridge, highway and light-rail complex that won't be built.

That's about what it would cost for seismic upgrades to the existing Interstate 5 Bridge across the Columbia River between Portland and Vancouver.

A little too ironic?

Oh well. Smiley: banghead
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#60 Jul 05 2013 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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There isn't much that is more satisfying than throwing away $175,000,000.
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#61 Jul 05 2013 at 12:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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eh, 2 million and change of that was me for hardware (server, network, cabling infrastructure, workstations, laptops, phones, etc). an eigth of that was buying the real estate right of way to actually build the project, which is still owned and will probably be used someday when they actually build something. The rest of it was spent on very high dollar consultants over 10 years. And no, you can't seismic retrofit the existing bridges without either demolishing and making the existing piers larger, which is technically infeasable and would narrow the shipping channel at least 4 feet to meat current seismic code, and even then the bridge itself still wouldn't meet code, or building an exterior jacket around the pilings, which makes them 4 feet wider on all sides, and narrows the existing shipping channel at least 8 feet, which the coast guard has flat out stated they won't allow. River traffic has precidence over bridge traffic, so in a dispute, the coast guard wins.
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#62 Jul 05 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
eh, 2 million and change of that was me for hardware (server, network, cabling infrastructure, workstations, laptops, phones, etc). an eigth of that was buying the real estate right of way to actually build the project, which is still owned and will probably be used someday when they actually build something.
That seems to be the interesting question on everyone's mind. How much of this is salvageable and it what way? I only hear vague descriptions like "some of the costs can be recovered if the next replacement project is similar enough to this one." I think the article (well one of them) was pointing to things like geological surveys and what not still being useful several years out, assuming the replacement bridge is eventually built near the same location. I imagine that goes for real estate as well.


Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
And no, you can't seismic retrofit the existing bridges without either demolishing and making the existing piers larger, which is technically infeasable and would narrow the shipping channel at least 4 feet to meat current seismic code, and even then the bridge itself still wouldn't meet code, or building an exterior jacket around the pilings, which makes them 4 feet wider on all sides, and narrows the existing shipping channel at least 8 feet, which the coast guard has flat out stated they won't allow. River traffic has precidence over bridge traffic, so in a dispute, the coast guard wins.
You know it isn't nice to disrupt a perfectly good editorial with facts. Smiley: wink
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#63 Jul 05 2013 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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tl;dr: Most of the money would have been just as well spent buying random people beer.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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#64 Jul 05 2013 at 3:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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More like buying lots of beer, and maybe a couple of hookers, for one particular Republican state congressman. Waiting until he did something stupid, and then posting the results on twitter.
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#65 Jul 05 2013 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I remember the days when you could build a bridge for less than the costs of planning to build a bridge nowadays. No, seriously, the Golden Gate Bridge, which was a much larger project than this one, cost 76 million. Granted, that's 1.2 billion in today's dollars, but why nitpick?

Fun fact, over 1,200 people have committed suicide by jumping off of the Golden Gate Bridge.

Edited, Jul 5th 2013 6:27pm by Turin
#66 Jul 05 2013 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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Its an easy and obvious place to kill yourself I guess. High and easily accessible.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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#67 Jul 05 2013 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
That's only $6300 per person!
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#68 Jul 05 2013 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Turin wrote:
Fun fact, over 1200 people have committed suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge.

All at once?
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#69 Jul 05 2013 at 4:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Turin wrote:
Fun fact, over 1200 people have committed suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge.

All at once?


They were going for a world record, unfortunately Guinness had to cancel their attendance at the last moment.
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#70 Jul 05 2013 at 5:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
That seems to be the interesting question on everyone's mind. How much of this is salvageable and it what way? I only hear vague descriptions like "some of the costs can be recovered if the next replacement project is similar enough to this one." I think the article (well one of them) was pointing to things like geological surveys and what not still being useful several years out, assuming the replacement bridge is eventually built near the same location. I imagine that goes for real estate as well.


The data collection stuff, (archeological surveys, soil test boreholes and core samples, design feasability and alternatives, models, etc.) will be very relavant to the next bridge planning thingy, if there ever is one. This is actually the second major effort to replace that bridge that failed. See "I-5 Partnership program" for further hilarity. Whoever does the follow on will almost have to redo the very expensive traffic modeling studies. The tolling crap studies and whatnot will probably still be relavant by then, and if nothing else getting the laws changed on both sides of the river to allow it to be tolled means it has a better chance of being built someday than not. The facility is paid through 2014 already, and part that kills me is that I "Just" got done pulling 2 months of weekend and all nighters to get all the new server and network hardware in play, recabled and ready to go. And now we have to gut it. $3,000 worh of new copper and fiber network cables alone. Something on the order of 2,000 printed labels. and no one knows whats going to happen with it all. if they manage to do a phoenix on the project, someone will want the gear to bring up a turn key new project, but aside from that, 2 state governments own half of everything. It's going to be wierd. All the desks and furnature and whatnot will probably go with the building and be sublet since there is no money to even pay someone to remove them and no where to store it. The files and drives from all the workstations and the SAN will go into archive somewhere and be preserved intact. They may be able to hang on to the real estate for a while. if i were the people in charge i'd at least turn them into temporary staging depots to claim the space is being used since all that requires is some gravel and maybe a fence or two. The labor expended over 10 years is gone, and thats not coming back. Whether the deliverables were worth that cost is completely up in the air and open to debate. There are 3 completed bridge designs that exist now. including all the accompanying interchanges up and down the road, including all the cad files and digital terrain models. I suspect some of the interchanges will get completed in future years regardless of the bridge itself moving forwards, and those are all literally ready to go to construction the minute anyone has funds for them. Which won't happen at all for at least 2 years now since they declined to fund them this biennium. At least on the washington side. The oregon side may haoppen alot sooner, and the island interchanges and local traffic back cross bridge may actually buy the bridges themselves a few years since thats alot of the traffic bottleneck north and southbound on the oregon side.

Whats really going to be fun and entertaining is when all the freight shipping companies that have been threatening to move elsewhere for the past 7 years of the project if a new bridge isn't built (you know, the ones that are basically 90% of the economy of clark county, and 40% of the economy of washington state overall) decide to say "@#%^ it" and head south so they don't have to deal with the damned bridge.
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#71 Jul 05 2013 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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I'm scared, I think Gbaji hacked Kao's account. Smiley: frown
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#72 Jul 06 2013 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
I'm scared, I think Gbaji hacked Kao's account. Smiley: frown


Naw, too coherent.
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#73 Jul 08 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Turin wrote:
Fun fact, over 1200 people have committed suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge.
All at once?
They were going for a world record, unfortunately Guinness had to cancel their attendance at the last moment.
Reminds me of the 9/11 record. The one that had the option to "Beat This Record."
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#74 Jul 08 2013 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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Sorry they had to put your dog down Kao.

The CRC has been getting kicked in the nuts for years. At least the Sellwood is getting replaced before it dropped.

If you're up for a beer with a decade-long lurker, send me a pm. No shortage of beverages in this town.


Fun fact: A number of our primary municipal water pipes, carrying that much bragged about Bull Run water into the city, are hollow logs.


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#75 Jul 09 2013 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good
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ticklebeard wrote:
Sorry they had to put your dog down Kao.

The CRC has been getting kicked in the nuts for years. At least the Sellwood is getting replaced before it dropped.

If you're up for a beer with a decade-long lurker, send me a pm. No shortage of beverages in this town.


Fun fact: A number of our primary municipal water pipes, carrying that much bragged about Bull Run water into the city, are hollow logs.


-mossholder
What the @#%^?
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YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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#76 Jul 09 2013 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
ticklebeard wrote:
Sorry they had to put your dog down Kao.

The CRC has been getting kicked in the nuts for years. At least the Sellwood is getting replaced before it dropped.

If you're up for a beer with a decade-long lurker, send me a pm. No shortage of beverages in this town.


Fun fact: A number of our primary municipal water pipes, carrying that much bragged about Bull Run water into the city, are hollow logs.


-mossholder
What the @#%^?
ticklebeard could be one of the greatest names I've ever seen around these parts.


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#77 Jul 09 2013 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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That wasn't even a very fun fact.
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#78 Jul 09 2013 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately the post doesn't live up to the expectations the username creates.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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#79 Jul 09 2013 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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Screw you Lolgaxe
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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#80 Jul 09 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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ticklebeard wrote:
Sorry they had to put your dog down Kao.

The CRC has been getting kicked in the nuts for years. At least the Sellwood is getting replaced before it dropped.

If you're up for a beer with a decade-long lurker, send me a pm. No shortage of beverages in this town.


Fun fact: A number of our primary municipal water pipes, carrying that much bragged about Bull Run water into the city, are hollow logs.


Nexa


The true identity revealed!
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#81 Jul 09 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
That wasn't even a very fun fact.
It's not the wood that's impressive, it's what you do with it?
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#82 Jul 09 2013 at 11:37 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
That wasn't even a very fun fact.


It wasn't fun was it?

damn.

#83 Jul 10 2013 at 5:17 AM Rating: Good
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It was very fun for me! Many people might be horrified at the vision of rotting logs spewing leakage along the way and dubious water into their homes, but I say THEY'RE A DARN SIGHT BETTER THAN PVC PIPES THOSE ENDOCRINE DISRuPTING @#%^ERS.
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#84 Jul 10 2013 at 7:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
I say THEY'RE A DARN SIGHT BETTER THAN PVC PIPES THOSE ENDOCRINE DISRuPTING @#%^ERS.

Could always go with metal or clay. Hell, concrete would be better than wood logs.
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#85 Jul 10 2013 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
It was very fun for me! Many people might be horrified at the vision of rotting logs spewing leakage along the way and dubious water into their homes, but I say THEY'RE A DARN SIGHT BETTER THAN PVC PIPES THOSE ENDOCRINE DISRuPTING @#%^ERS.

PVC will leach lead a bit of lead, but nothing at the level of the old lead piping.

The endocrine disrupters are mostly in plastic softeners. I don't believe they're an issue with hard PVC piping.

Still I'm guessing logs that were used for piping were petrified to some extent and not really 'rotting' or at least not presenting a health problem unless they're leaking and allowing septic in or something odd like that. The age might indicate that fittings and connections though are lead.







Edited, Jul 10th 2013 3:38pm by Elinda
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#86 Jul 10 2013 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Phthalates

on the label:
vinyl, PVC, phthalates, DEHP, DBP, fragrance, parfum

health effects:
Phthalates are hormone-disrupting chemicals. According to the CDC, exposure to phthalates is wide spread and animal studies show that they are toxic to reproductive system and have other effects. Studies show that phthalates reduce female fertility and can cause premature breast development in young women. Phthalates in a mother’s body can effect the fetal development of her child. Baby boys whose mothers were exposed to high levels of phthalates are more likely to have altered genital development (2004 University of Rochester study) and altered levels of testosterone. For men, phthalates lower sperm counts, reduce sperm motility, and damage sperm. Endocrine disrupting chemicals have been linked to obesity. Several animal studies show that exposing mice to endocrine disruptors, including phthalates, causes them to become more obese. Phthalates are not regulated by the U.S. federal government. In 2004, the European Union banned the use of bibutyl phthalate (DBP) and diethylhexyl phthalate (DEHP) from personal care products. California state placed DEHP on its Prop 65 list of chemicals known to cause cancer and reproductive toxicity.
used in:
Phthalates are used to make plastics soft and flexible. A 2002 study tested 72 cosmetic products from major U.S. brands and found phthalates in nearly 75% of them. None of them had the word phthalates on the label.
#3 Plastics
Cosmetics: Shampoos and conditioners, lotions, perfumes, nail polish, hair spray
Vinyl products, including friendly looking rubber duckies, shower curtains, and cosmetic bags
Products containing “fragrance”
Plastic clothing, raincoats
Some plastic food containers
reduce your exposure to phthalates:
Avoid Vinyl and PVC plastic. Unless the manufacture specifies that the product is phthalate-free, avoid soft vinyl products with a strong plastic smell including toys and shower curtains. Choose fabric or non-plastic cosmetic bags.
Avoid #3 plastics. Look for #3 on the plastic product, food container, or bottle; it is usually on the bottom. #3 plastics contain phthalates.
Choose phthalate-free cosmetics. Read the labels and look for “phthalate-free”.
Avoid products with fragrance. Phthalates are used in “fragrance” mixtures that are added to cosmetic products.
This is why I use essential oils diluted in water in small glass bottles for my deodorant and perfume.
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#87 Jul 10 2013 at 8:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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I believe Elinda's point was that PVC piping is typically rigid (particularly for large municipal use) and thus doesn't require much in the way of phthalates which are used to keep the plastic soft at normal temperatures.

PVC used as a 'fabric' and the like would be a different story. But that's not much of a water leeching concern unless you have really weird pipes.
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#88 Jul 10 2013 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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That's what she said.
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#89 Jul 10 2013 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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The rest of it was spent on very high dollar consultants

Sad that when reading that I felt the same as reading about a victory for a sports team I follow. Go High Dollar Consultants! GO!

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#90 Jul 11 2013 at 1:56 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I believe Elinda's point was that PVC piping is typically rigid (particularly for large municipal use) and thus doesn't require much in the way of phthalates which are used to keep the plastic soft at normal temperatures.

PVC used as a 'fabric' and the like would be a different story. But that's not much of a water leeching concern unless you have really weird pipes.

Let me try this again.

Cigarette smoke causes lung cancer.

Asbestos causes Mesothelioma.

Vaccines don't cause Autism.

Lead exposure causes brain damage in children.

PVA causes breast and testicular cancer, infertility, and probably causes emotional imbalances via it interfering with our hormonal systems.

No matter how rigid the water pipe.

You remember how they discovered most crude oil derived synthetics were endocrine disruptors? Because they thought that all this fish and animal infertility around lakes might be caused by leftover birth-contorl chemicals in women's urine. Except when they investigated that theory, they ruled the birth control out and the PVC pipes in, along with other plastic and petrochemical pollution. What does every oestrogen have in common? A benzine ring and being fat-soluable. What do most petrochemicals, synthetic plastics and synthetic fragrances have in common? A benzine ring and being fat-soluble. This isn't something to blank out of your mind because imagining a life without plastic is too hard. There are cheap and easy alternatives right now. There are a heap of plastics and synthetics that AREN'T endocrine disrupting. And the test to find out is simple and cheap. Welcome to the next Senate hearing. "Sir, when did you first know that there was a scientific consensus showing that the product you sell causes cancer and infertility?"

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 3:58am by Aripyanfar
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#91 Jul 11 2013 at 5:27 AM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I believe Elinda's point was that PVC piping is typically rigid (particularly for large municipal use) and thus doesn't require much in the way of phthalates which are used to keep the plastic soft at normal temperatures.

PVC used as a 'fabric' and the like would be a different story. But that's not much of a water leeching concern unless you have really weird pipes.

Let me try this again.

Cigarette smoke causes lung cancer.

Asbestos causes Mesothelioma.

Vaccines don't cause Autism.

Lead exposure causes brain damage in children.

PVA causes breast and testicular cancer, infertility, and probably causes emotional imbalances via it interfering with our hormonal systems.

No matter how rigid the water pipe.

You remember how they discovered most crude oil derived synthetics were endocrine disruptors? Because they thought that all this fish and animal infertility around lakes might be caused by leftover birth-contorl chemicals in women's urine. Except when they investigated that theory, they ruled the birth control out and the PVC pipes in, along with other plastic and petrochemical pollution. What does every oestrogen have in common? A benzine ring and being fat-soluable. What do most petrochemicals, synthetic plastics and synthetic fragrances have in common? A benzine ring and being fat-soluble. This isn't something to blank out of your mind because imagining a life without plastic is too hard. There are cheap and easy alternatives right now. There are a heap of plastics and synthetics that AREN'T endocrine disrupting. And the test to find out is simple and cheap. Welcome to the next Senate hearing. "Sir, when did you first know that there was a scientific consensus showing that the product you sell causes cancer and infertility?"

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 3:58am by Aripyanfar
PVC is a straight chain hydrocarbon.

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#92 Jul 11 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
PVC is a straight chain hydrocarbon.


PVC still manages to be an endocrine disruptor. That's why substances need to be tested for whether they are or not. There are companies that test their containers for it, and there is at least one type of plastic used for bathroom products that isn't an endocrine disruptor. You wouldn't know the difference if you were just going by the look and feel of the plastic.
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#93 Jul 11 2013 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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But is it manufactured by Chinese toddlers and sold at Wal-Mart for 8% less??
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Chinese hermaphrodite toddlers, yes.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#95 Jul 11 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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The solution to sweat shops is air conditioners.
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#96 Jul 11 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Chinese hermaphrodite toddlers, yes.


It's the only logical way to explain their population since they keep killing the girls.
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#97 Jul 11 2013 at 9:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
The solution to sweat shops is air conditioners.


They aren't allowed to use the merchandise.
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Shaowstrike (Retired - FFXI)
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"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
#98 Jul 11 2013 at 3:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I got my official "your position is going away" notice today. I have until September 2013 since they need someone to care for the servers until then . After that, I bump two people and end up taking a lower paying job. There is a good chance they will find at least one more position, so I may end up only bumping one person in that case. Also applied for a crapton of other jobs, most of which aren't government, which basically means my pension stays tiny, and my eventual retirement would be tiny. Not ideal, but what can you do eh?
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#99 Jul 11 2013 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Well, I got my official "your position is going away" notice today. I have until September 2013 since they need someone to care for the servers until then . After that, I bump two people and end up taking a lower paying job. There is a good chance they will find at least one more position, so I may end up only bumping one person in that case. Also applied for a crapton of other jobs, most of which aren't government, which basically means my pension stays tiny, and my eventual retirement would be tiny. Not ideal, but what can you do eh?

Don't fret, you're still fairly young, you can still get back on the dole...
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#100 Jul 11 2013 at 10:25 PM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Not ideal, but what can you do eh?


Make your position relevant again...Two words...Explosive Bridge! Like in one of those tower defense games!
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#101 Jul 12 2013 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
...my pension stays tiny, and my eventual retirement would be tiny. Not ideal, but what can you do eh?
Your salary is likely to get bigger. Just make sure you tuck some away in a 401k or some such investiture.

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