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#352 Jul 22 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I think I've said it in this thread already, but I believe that we have no legal right to treat minors as adults only when it suits us, in reactive ways that can only work to their detriment.
The option should always be available based on the situation. I don't think someone who is less than a year away from the "legal definition of adulthood" should get special consideration if they get drunk and drive into a crowd of people. No law should be written in absolutes.
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#353 Jul 22 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I think I've said it in this thread already, but I believe that we have no legal right to treat minors as adults only when it suits us, in reactive ways that can only work to their detriment.
The option should always be available based on the situation. I don't think someone who is less than a year away from the "legal definition of adulthood" should get special consideration if they get drunk and drive into a crowd of people. No law should be written in absolutes.


Very fair, but I still feel we should apply that same idea to adulthood definitions. If you're 16, but the sole caretaker of your entire family because your single parent is an absentee alcoholic, you probably fulfill most of the subjective criteria we're looking for in our adult citizens (and have set an age limit for when we hope they'll sufficiently meet them). Likewise, someone mentally disabled and mentally only a 6 year old probably shouldn't be considered an adult even if they're 40.

As far as I can see, the real problem here is that we're using the standard of an age of majority. If we feel it necessary that it has to be permeated on one side for the sake of justice, okay. But I'm not comfortably with that occurring unless minors can move in the other direction and be recognized as adults before the age of majority. It's just not a balanced equation, to me, for it to be a universal restriction on the side that grants rights/privileges, but not a universal protection on the side that defends them from prosecution.
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#354 Jul 22 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
If you're 16, but the sole caretaker of your entire family because your single parent is an absentee alcoholic, you probably fulfill most of the subjective criteria we're looking for in our adult citizens (and have set an age limit for when we hope they'll sufficiently meet them). Likewise, someone mentally disabled and mentally only a 6 year old probably shouldn't be considered an adult even if they're 40.
Smiley: dubious In your examples, the 16 year old could petition for a legal emancipation and the 40 year old has a legal caretaker/guardian and is, legally, treated like a six year old. It's all situational. It sounds like what you want already exists, just the angle you want isn't very ratings worthy.
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#355 Jul 22 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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Emancipation doesn't really work that way right now. In most states, you're required to demonstrate that you're both self-sufficient, and that your parents are unfit.

Unless your state allows you to quit school without parental consent, emancipation may not change that. Any law that specifies an age generally continues to hold. That means, in NJ at least, you cannot vote, you cannot work more than 40 hours a week, cannot work before 7 am or after 7 pm, cannot drive, etc.

Basically, all that **** you'd really need access to in order to be self sufficient in the first place.

Emancipation is an alternative to foster care, more than anything else. If you can offer sufficient evidence that your parents are unfit to qualify for emancipation, it's going to be that or foster care. And it's probably going to be foster care.

Maybe it's just an incredibly ****** deal in NJ, compared to other states?
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#356 Jul 22 2013 at 9:09 PM Rating: Default
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I do recall arguing with Jophiel that the "magical" age of 18 is arbitrary. There is no difference between a person who is 17 years 364 days 23 hours 58 mins old verses an 18 year old.
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#357 Jul 23 2013 at 6:48 AM Rating: Good
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There is a difference. One is a child and one is an adult by legal definitions.

You could just as easily say that there is little difference between a baby that is 9months in the womb and a baby that is one minute out of the womb. But one is still a fetus while the other is now a person.

Yes the number of days or years that is settled on to delineate adulthood is not scientifically calculated for each individual. It is however the legal definition based on generations of peeps creating and raising offspring.

Kids are treated different because they are different. The law has to start and stop somewhere. Once that line loses it's rigidity it also loses credibility and effectiveness. Sure there are instances where kids are tried as adults because of recidivism or the horrendous nature of the crime etc, but these are and should remain exceptional. Funny though that there is never a discussion about an immature 20 year-old alleged criminal being tried as a juvenile.

Despite all this or that, Martin was not being charged with anything. His legal status is really moot.

I call him a child because at 17 most individuals are making the decisions of, well 17 year olds. I was a sassy-mouthed, disrespectful teen myself. It was a short-lived phase during which I, fortunately never sassed off to a self-appointed deputy-dawg with a gun.
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#358 Jul 23 2013 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
You could just as easily say that there is little difference between a baby that is 9months in the womb and a baby that is one minute out of the womb. But one is still a fetus while the other is now a person.
I believe I read somewhere that one or two people do believe they're both people.
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#359 Jul 23 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
You could just as easily say that there is little difference between a baby that is 9months in the womb and a baby that is one minute out of the womb. But one is still a fetus while the other is now a person.
I believe I read somewhere that one or two people do believe they're both people.
I just read somewhere that Sybil was faking it all along.


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#360 Jul 23 2013 at 7:35 AM Rating: Default
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http://ca.news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-helps-rescue-family-overturned-vehicle-police-182100652.html

Everything happens for a reason.

Quote:
ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - George Zimmerman, who was acquitted earlier this month of murder and manslaughter in the death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, helped rescue a family from an overturned vehicle in Florida last week, authorities said on Monday. Zimmerman, 29, helped get them out of the overturned sport utility vehicle last Wednesday, barely four days after the not-guilty verdict, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office in central Florida said.

"He did not witness the crash. He rolled up on it after the fact and assisted in getting the family out of the vehicle," sheriff's spokeswoman Kim Cannaday said.
When a deputy arrived at the scene, two men, one of whom was identified as Zimmerman, had already helped get the parents and two children out of the vehicle, Cannaday said. The two men then left. Cannaday said no one was injured. The family's identity and race were not immediately known. Asked if Zimmerman was being called a hero, Cannaday said, "We're not going that far."



(Why does their race matter???? because its 'Murica)

Edited, Jul 23rd 2013 9:36am by rdmcandie
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#361 Jul 23 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:

Everything happens for a reason.

Zimmerman shot a person so he could help some other people out of an over-turned car?

That makes sense.

There was this person that died falling off a ladder in Florida. There is every reason to believe that had Trayvon been alive he would have saved the falling dude. Smiley: oyvey



Edited, Jul 23rd 2013 3:45pm by Elinda
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#362 Jul 23 2013 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
You could just as easily say that there is little difference between a baby that is 9months in the womb and a baby that is one minute out of the womb. But one is still a fetus while the other is now a citizen.
I believe I read somewhere that one or two people do believe they're both people.
Fixed that for clarity.
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#363 Jul 23 2013 at 7:51 AM Rating: Good
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Their race doesn't matter.

But if you're wondering why a news agency would consider it newsworthy, I'm going to bet it's because Zimmerman was just involved in a racially charged murder trial and they can get more readers by bringing race into it, both to make the story more inflammatory and to increase its presence on current search engines.

Now take a moment to realize that you just shared that article with us specifically because it went out of its way to mention race. Considering they get money for clicks, they care a **** of a lot more to get people to their site. If just mentioning race can do that, they'll obviously do it.
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#364 Jul 23 2013 at 8:10 AM Rating: Default
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no I shared it because...if Zimmerman was in prison today, would that family still be stuck in their vehicle?
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#365 Jul 23 2013 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
no I shared it because...if Zimmerman was in prison today, would that family still be stuck in their vehicle?
Probably not since the accident happened last week.
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#366 Jul 23 2013 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
no I shared it because...if Zimmerman was in prison today, would that family still be stuck in their vehicle?


Maybe, maybe not. It's not like the vehicle was on fire or filling with water.
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#367 Jul 23 2013 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
no I shared it because...if Zimmerman was in prison today, would that family still be stuck in their vehicle?
He was 1 of 2 people on site, so probably not.
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#368 Jul 23 2013 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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I have no clue what role Zimmerman ultimately played in that event, but I'm happy to award him whatever praise for his actions he is due for this event, including whatever of that is attributed to his general character. I'll do the same for the Martin incident.

I'm not sure what your point is, to be honest. Are you trying to infer that a "good person" can't do something monstrous, or that a "bad person" can't do something good?

People are too complicated for that. I'm sure there's plenty of ways Zimmerman is a vile human being, and plenty of ways in which he's a wonderful one. That has little to do with whether or not he did something wrong/right.
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#369 Jul 23 2013 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
no I shared it because...if Zimmerman was in prison today, would that family still be stuck in their vehicle?

yeah, no. Should we let all people out of jail in case they need to assist someone out of a stricken vehicle?

Sure, Zimmerman was a helpful guy. He's not a messiah. If he'd been in jail, maybe the butterfly wing would have flapped at a different time and the wind would have blown out of the sw and so the bird wouldn't have flown into the stop sign and the road crew wouldn't have been parked on the side of the road and ultimately the family car would never have rolled over at all.

What kind of prognostic bs is this?
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#370 Jul 23 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
no I shared it because...if Zimmerman was in prison today, would that family still be stuck in their vehicle?


You shared it because you're a moron.
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#371 Jul 23 2013 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
no I shared it because...if Zimmerman was in prison today, would that family still be stuck in their vehicle?


You shared it because you're a moran.
God, it's like Nobby was never even here!
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#372 Jul 23 2013 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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That's probably because he is all but gone from ZAM.
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#373 Jul 23 2013 at 3:43 PM Rating: Decent
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The onion has done it again...
http://www.theonion.com/video/judge-rules-white-girl-will-be-tried-as-black-adul,18896/
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#374 Jul 23 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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No. It's not irrelevant. It's the entire point I was making. My speculation is that Martin wasn't afraid of Zimmerman because he thought he was a criminal, but because he thought Zimmerman was reporting him to the police (or was the police).


Oh, tut, tut. Surely such an obviously hardened and experienced criminal would have known that a police officer would be required to identify himself in a stern, manly voice. "Halt, miscreant! I represent the forces of LAW and GOOD!"

Because clearly nobody of color has ever had any reason to avoid the attention of the righteous force of good that is the police force in the deep South.

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#375 Jul 24 2013 at 4:46 AM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
No. It's not irrelevant. It's the entire point I was making. My speculation is that Martin wasn't afraid of Zimmerman because he thought he was a criminal, but because he thought Zimmerman was reporting him to the police (or was the police).


Oh, tut, tut. Surely such an obviously hardened and experienced criminal would have known that a police officer would be required to identify himself in a stern, manly voice. "Halt, miscreant! I represent the forces of LAW and GOOD!"

Because clearly nobody of color has ever had any reason to avoid the attention of the righteous force of good that is the police force in the deep South.



I'm not expecting Gbaji to respond in this thread (at least to me) because he talked himself into a corner that he can't logically get out of unless he admits some error on his part.

Admittedly, it took me awhile, but I figured him out. A reason why his posts are so unnecessarily long is that he conveniently ignores hard hitting questions while responding with distractions. As long as you continue to respond to his distractions, he will successfully prevent you from staying on a single valid point.
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#376 Jul 24 2013 at 5:06 AM Rating: Good
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Like you, gbaji does not require logic for his arguments.
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#377 Jul 24 2013 at 5:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't take him seriously enough to care whether he responds to a serious point or some frivolity. Sorry if that inconveniences you. (No, not really.)
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#378 Jul 24 2013 at 6:09 AM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Like you, gbaji does not require logic for his arguments.


Not possessing the intellect to understand an argument isn't the same thing as the argument not having logic. I didn't say that his arguments were illogical. He just plays on the emotional responses that hold no substance, similar to your remark.

Samira wrote:
I don't take him seriously enough to care whether he responds to a serious point or some frivolity. Sorry if that inconveniences you. (No, not really.)


Your apology is moot as my statement was a generic response of observations. I'm sorry if my response made you feel valuable enough for anyone to care about your personal opinion. (No, not really.)
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#379 Jul 24 2013 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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#380 Jul 24 2013 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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#381 Jul 24 2013 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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You're large?
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#382 Jul 24 2013 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
I didn't say that his arguments were illogical.
Correct, you didn't. You did say though that you don't expect him to reply to you because he backed himself into a corner that he can't logically get out of. He doesn't need logic, it's something easy for him (and you) to ignore.
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#383 Jul 24 2013 at 4:07 PM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
I didn't say that his arguments were illogical.
Correct, you didn't. You did say though that you don't expect him to reply to you because he backed himself into a corner that he can't logically get out of. He doesn't need logic, it's something easy for him (and you) to ignore.


That statement insinuates that he has done that before, therefore will do it again. Which brings me back to the point that the failure of your part to understand an argument doesn't mean that there is no logic involved. That's a personal problem.
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#384 Jul 24 2013 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I'm sorry if my response made you feel valuable enough for anyone to care about your personal opinion.


Your response had as much impact as any of your responses ever have. Mild bemusement, indifference.
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#385 Jul 24 2013 at 9:10 PM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
Quote:
I'm sorry if my response made you feel valuable enough for anyone to care about your personal opinion.


Your response had as much impact as any of your responses ever have. Mild bemusement, indifference.


As a great wise man once said "Not possessing the intellect to understand an argument isn't the same thing as the argument not having logic.".
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#386 Jul 24 2013 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Arguments between you and gbaji lack both logic and intellect.
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#387 Jul 24 2013 at 10:04 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Samira wrote:
Quote:
I'm sorry if my response made you feel valuable enough for anyone to care about your personal opinion.


Your response had as much impact as any of your responses ever have. Mild bemusement, indifference.


As a half - man once said "Not possessing the intellect to understand an argument isn't the same thing as the argument not having logic.".


However, that is not a "get out of jail free" card.

Because sometimes, the argument lacks logic. Just like being paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Just saying, is all.

Edited, Jul 24th 2013 9:05pm by stupidmonkey
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#388 Jul 24 2013 at 11:10 PM Rating: Good
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I always consider Samira valuable enough to care about her personal opinion. Mostly because Samira is awesome incarnate, and partly because she's almost always right.

And because she has sass.
#389 Jul 25 2013 at 1:35 AM Rating: Default
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Debalic wrote:
Arguments between you and gbaji lack both logic and intellect.

Is that so? Given the fact that when the both of us argue each other, I'm usually echoing the forum, please do tell how the forum lacks logic and intellect.Smiley: lol

Stupid wrote:

However, that is not a "get out of jail free" card.

Because sometimes, the argument lacks logic. Just like being paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Just saying, is all.


Wasn't using it as such, just specifically for this thread. I tend to just admit ignorance if I'm arguing something that I don't fully understand.
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#390 Jul 25 2013 at 3:33 AM Rating: Good
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#391 Jul 25 2013 at 5:09 AM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Liar


About what?
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#392 Jul 25 2013 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
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Tending to admit ignorance when you are arguing something you don't fully understand.

I'm not saying you never do, but using the word "tend" implies more often than not, and that certainly isn't the case.
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#393 Jul 25 2013 at 5:19 AM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Tending to admit ignorance when you are arguing something you don't fully understand.

I'm not saying you never do, but using the word "tend" implies more often than not, and that certainly isn't the case.


Ha. I have done so at least twice within the past month. Your failure to recognize it is a personal problem.
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#394 Jul 25 2013 at 5:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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And there's your problem. You think you've only been clueless on a subject twice over the last month.
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#395 Jul 25 2013 at 5:47 AM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
And there's your problem. You think you've only been clueless on a subject twice over the last month.


Not agreeing with someone doesn't mean that the person is clueless. Given the fact that I have only engaged in about three discussions in the last month, I think the word "tend" is appropriate. Furthermore, I would argue that you don't either know and/or disagree with my recent points. If I'm wrong, then state them and why I'm clueless. Of course you can't, because you're just talking trash. I have no problem entertaining your games, as I'm still waiting on my stuff to arrive.
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#396 Jul 25 2013 at 5:54 AM Rating: Good
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Alright, I'll admit I'm talking out my *** a little here as I haven't really been following any threads over the last 1-2 months, but unless you feel this is a new you, then your history shows I'm right.
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#397 Jul 25 2013 at 6:03 AM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Alright, I'll admit I'm talking out my *** a little here as I haven't really been following any threads over the last 1-2 months, but unless you feel this is a new you, then your history shows I'm right.


This isn't a "new" me, because I never changed. Just as you never changed. The actions that you just displayed are consistent with your past. That only proves that I'm right, you're just making stuff up. I remember the exact moment in my life when I decided not to talk out of ignorance and that was far before I had access to the Internet.

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#398 Jul 25 2013 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Liar
You should know better.
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#399 Jul 25 2013 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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#400 Jul 25 2013 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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This isn't a "new" me, because I never changed.


Pity.
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