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#1 May 03 2013 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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DHAKA, Bangladesh — Bangladesh's finance minister downplayed the impact of last week's factory-building collapse on his country's garment industry, saying he didn't think it was "really serious" Friday, hours after the 500th body was pulled from the debris.


Walmart, Gap, JC Penney, The Children's Place, Benetton all have clothing made in this or other factories in the complex. The garment industry is easily the largest export income stream in Bangladesh.

Currently many US companies are trying to get some deal signed to insure better, safer working conditions. Walmart is dragging it's heals.

I don't shop at Walmart, but I'm wondering if a 'boycott' is the best way to express displeasure to these companies. I'd gladly give them an extra buck when purchasing my stylish new tee if they could insure me it would go directly into improving labor conditions.

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#2 May 03 2013 at 7:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Walmart is dragging it's heals.

Well they better get on that; sounds like a lot of healing will be needed!
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#3 May 03 2013 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
I'd gladly give them an extra buck when purchasing my stylish new tee if they could insure me it would go directly into improving labor conditions.
How would they insure it? Show a picture of the new air conditioning unit at the shops? A ball pit for the kids sewing your sneakers?
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#4 May 03 2013 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I'd gladly give them an extra buck when purchasing my stylish new tee if they could insure me it would go directly into improving labor conditions.
How would they insure it? Show a picture of the new air conditioning unit at the shops? A ball pit for the kids sewing your sneakers?

That's a problem, but I'd think with all the techno-gadgets we have there could be some tracking, oversight, verification efforts made by a third-party humanitarian group....or something.

I don't know!

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#5 May 03 2013 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Walmart is dragging it's heals.

Well they better get on that; sounds like a lot of healing will be needed!
I know and Walmart is all "No way, they're not in my group, I'm not wasting mana on them".
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#6 May 03 2013 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Holy shit... back up a second.

Benetton is still a thing?
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#7 May 03 2013 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Walmart is dragging it's heals.

Well they better get on that; sounds like a lot of healing will be needed!
Kao, you forgot to switch back to your main account.
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#8 May 03 2013 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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Spoonless wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Walmart is dragging it's heals.

Well they better get on that; sounds like a lot of healing will be needed!
Kao, you forgot to switch back to your main account.
Locke, like Kao before him, is being integrated into the gestalt entity, Zadmin. They retain unique names but are of one mind.


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#9 May 03 2013 at 7:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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They're like Voltron. But the weird space car one, not the lion one.
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#10 May 03 2013 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I'd gladly give them an extra buck when purchasing my stylish new tee if they could insure me it would go directly into improving labor conditions.
How would they insure it? Show a picture of the new air conditioning unit at the shops? A ball pit for the kids sewing your sneakers?

That's a problem, but I'd think with all the techno-gadgets we have there could be some tracking, oversight, verification efforts made by a third-party humanitarian group....or something.

I don't know!



Regular auditing by a 3rd party should suffice.


Jophiel wrote:
Holy shit... back up a second.

Benetton is still a thing?


What's Benetton? Smiley: confused
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#11 May 03 2013 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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The guys with all the weird/cool/creepy ads that have little to nothing to do with clothing.
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#12 May 03 2013 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Suddenly I could go for a cardinal beanie.
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#13 May 03 2013 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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I doubt Benetton actually sells those but good luck on your search for one.
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#14 May 03 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Surprisingly hard to find in white.
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#15 May 03 2013 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't shop at Walmart, but I'm wondering if a 'boycott' is the best way to express displeasure to these companies.

Every apparel company on the planet? Walmart is a terrible company, but not because of this. They're refusal to go along with ******** band aid to make up for hundreds of corpses is probably admirable. US consumers have decided that dead people in poor countries don't concern them as much as being able to buy $4 tee shirts. That's the problem. No one cares. Millions of workers could die tomorrow, nothing will change. Personally, I naturally only wear bespoke suits made from my own stable of silkworms homespun thread. Because I care.
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#16 May 03 2013 at 8:26 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Millions of workers could die tomorrow, nothing will change.
There would be a million new job openings.
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#17 May 03 2013 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Millions of workers could die tomorrow, nothing will change.
There would be a million new job openings.


I'll help clarify; in this context "workers" means "peasants".

Poor people are expendable, and easily replaced. Particularly third world poor people.
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#18 May 03 2013 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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Kakar wrote:
I'll help clarify; in this context "workers" means "peasants".
For real? I managed to completely miss that.
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#19 May 03 2013 at 8:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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OPEN YOUR EYES, SHEEPLE.
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#20 May 03 2013 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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I wear buckskin made from the deer I shot down with my Little Bear Bow and Arrow set.

I think people do care - a little bit. They don't care enough to bother finding and paying for domestically produced high quality clothing, but I think some do care enough to drop an extra quarter or two on a garment if it's specifically ear-marker to go towards the peasant.

Gees, is expecting a building to remain standing asking too much?!

...seriously.
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#21 May 03 2013 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I think people do care - a little bit. They don't care enough to bother finding and paying for domestically produced high quality clothing, but I think some do care enough to drop an extra quarter or two on a garment if it's specifically ear-marker to go towards the peasant.

You are incorrect. A small subset of people care enough to buy something with a "fair trade" sticker on it or whathave you, but not for a penny more.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#22 May 03 2013 at 8:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
I wear buckskin made from the deer I shot down with my Little Bear Bow and Arrow set.

Did you meet a fetching Englishman and sing about waterfalls and stuff?
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#23 May 03 2013 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I wear buckskin made from the deer I shot down with my Little Bear Bow and Arrow set.

Did you meet a fetching Englishman and sing about waterfalls and stuff?

The answer is Just Around the River Bend.
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#24 May 03 2013 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Did you meet a fetching Englishman and sing about waterfalls and stuff?

I believe that requires ******* that are 79% of one's body mass.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#25 May 03 2013 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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That raccoon needed to be turned into a hat.
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#26 May 03 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
I think people do care - a little bit. They don't care enough to bother finding and paying for domestically produced high quality clothing, but I think some do care enough to drop an extra quarter or two on a garment if it's specifically ear-marker to go towards the peasant.

You are incorrect. A small subset of people care enough to buy something with a "fair trade" sticker on it or what have you, but not for a penny more.

Add an Ellen zipper pull to the garment and you could charge two bucks more.

Every cup of Fair Trade coffee I've ever had tastes like crap.

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#27 May 03 2013 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Every cup of Fair Trade coffee I've ever had tastes like crap.

That's because it's not seasoned with the tears of Juan Valdez. We only drink Cafe Bustelo, which I'm fairly certain is made from the bones of Mexican children and charcoal. They used is an example of an international food at some meeting Nexa was at and when she said "hey, it's my coffee," several people looked at her suspiciously.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#28 May 03 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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It saddens me they wasted charcoal like that.
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#29 May 03 2013 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Every cup of Fair Trade coffee I've ever had tastes like crap.

That's because it's not seasoned with the tears of Juan Valdez.


Ah, but does it also contain the tears of his mule? That adds an extra kick for me.
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#30 May 03 2013 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
We only drink Cafe Bustelo, which I'm fairly certain is made from the bones of Mexican children and charcoal.
That the stuff that comes in the yellow foil bricks?
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#31 May 03 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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Hmm, time to get outfitted in American Apparel and New Balance, I guess.

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#32 May 03 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
I wear buckskin made from the deer I shot down with my Little Bear Bow and Arrow set.
Which was hand crafted by Chinese war orphans.

Smiley: disappointed
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#33 May 03 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
You know, in all this. I just feel for all those that died. What a horrible way to go Smiley: frown I wonder if they even knew what danger they were in before the collapse? This has happened before in other countries and other buildings. The Sampoong department store being another high profile building collapse.

Boycott is always the best way to show displeasure to a firm if you feel they are not listening.
You could ask Starbucks what they think of a UK customer backlash .... Costa Coffee gaining as Starbucks sinks

In this case I'm not sure this is the right thing. The consumer needs to step up and pay more for their clothes so that contracts can be written with safety regulations stipulated but I doubt the consumer cares enough unless the press jump in with an "OMG, the outrage of the week is here, let's bang this drum till the next newsworthy issue pops up". It's all noise.
Hmmm ... in a really 'bad taste' tangent I was left wondering what the headline would be for a building falling down on 500 lawyers ... or 500 estate agents .. or 500 tax inspectors ... you get my drift .. I'm annoyed with myself for even thinking it Smiley: bah

For the record, I buy fair trade coffee. I pay twice as much for it as I possibly should, it comes in smaller containers than I would like but I feel justified and liberal and free when I drink it Smiley: nod It may help that at home I only drink it in the morning when I could not care less what it tastes like, I just need the hit.

As for clothes. I buy expensive and wear the **** out of them. I do not buy in cheaper stores, premium only thanks. That said, I have a smaller wardrobe than most and cycle each season. Quality stays. I'll always pay more for a better product (and for better conditions for those producing them). I must be pretty freaky to old Smasharoo as a very rare cosumer Smiley: rolleyes
#34 May 03 2013 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmm, time to get outfitted in American Apparel and New Balance, I guess.


American Apparel appears to be run by a dirtbag misogynist, and New Balance sources material for shoes from China, assembles them 90% there, then glues them together in Maine. I know that last part because I had a contract with them for an algorithm to predict parts shortages and the most efficient shipping routes from Guangdong. That's for the few "made in USA" brands, of course, most of their shoes are just assembled in China. Or were a few years ago, anyway.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#35 May 03 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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JennockFV wrote:
I must be pretty freaky to old Smasharoo as a very rare cosumer Smiley: rolleyes

Judging from the number of Walmarts & Targets versus the number of high end retailers, I don't think there's any question about which which consumer is more scarce.
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#36 May 03 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

Hmm, time to get outfitted in American Apparel and New Balance, I guess.


American Apparel appears to be run by a dirtbag misogynist, and New Balance sources material for shoes from China, assembles them 90% there, then glues them together in Maine. I know that last part because I had a contract with them for an algorithm to predict parts shortages and the most efficient shipping routes from Guangdong. That's for the few "made in USA" brands, of course, most of their shoes are just assembled in China. Or were a few years ago, anyway.

Yeah, I know about both of those issues. But as you say, people can't be bothered to spend anything extra on fair trade goods. So if I can buy from a popular company that's 5% more ethical than the next, and don't have to go out of my way or spend twice as much, then at least it's something. I don't have any illusions that buying from those companies is changing the world, but it reduces guilt a little bit.
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#37 May 03 2013 at 11:25 PM Rating: Good
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I'll spend extra on something with the Fair Trade logo, or some other claim to ethical conduct. (Preferably one I know about myself previously from elsewhere, than from the advertising on the packaging. Although I'll go with what's on the package's ingredient's list in lieu of better information.) Sometimes 5 to 10 times extra, and I'll eat the economic hit by buying less stuff. TLW and I had an intellectual disagreement about it, after my War and Peace Theory of Shopping thread a while back. According to him, it was probably better ethically to buy the cheapest sh*t you could on everyday items, and save and invest hard, and then later on spend the difference on donating to one extremely well researched, beneficial charity. For me, it has been an adulthood long education in sometimes getting what you pay for, sometimes even coming well out ahead in return (use) on "investment", and sometimes NOT getting extra for what you pay for, except for peace of mind. And also learning what you really can't buy over the internet. Smiley: bah

Years ago, TLW was incredulous about the plan I was on with my electricity provider. They did this thing, where you could pay 25%, 50%, 75% or 100% extra for your electricity, and they guaranteed that that proportion of your bill was (not directly supplied by renewable energy plants, but) proportionally fed into the electricity grid by renewable electricity plants. The uptake of this plan was so wildly oversubscribed, that the electricity provider had to change the plan. The proportion of your bill going to renewables was now guaranteed to be spent on building new renewable electrical plants (solar heat, geothermal, wind, etc).

I told TLW I was spending 100% more on my electrical bill in return for the guarantee that that was going on building renewable plants. He almost fell off his chair because I was paying double to a company not for their service, but for them to build assets that didn't even exist yet that they would retain, and I would not have a share in. I seriously blew TLW's mind with this piece of consumer idiocy I was engaged in. I was really really happy to pay for my electricity this way. Doesn't stop me from switching off the light when I leave a room, though. Smiley: tongue

Edited, May 4th 2013 1:34am by Aripyanfar
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#38 May 04 2013 at 2:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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You clearly have more money than I do. Because while I'd love to pay for all organic, fair trade foodstuff it costs a lot more and gets me nothing extra and I can't justify that to myself.
Now if they made a different or clearly superior product, I'd have no problem paying a little extra for the organic or fair trade parts because I'm also getting something out of that extra cost and it's not just paying extra because it's fair trade.
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#39 May 04 2013 at 5:43 AM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
I'll spend extra on something with the Fair Trade logo, or some other claim to ethical conduct. (Preferably one I know about myself previously from elsewhere, than from the advertising on the packaging. Although I'll go with what's on the package's ingredient's list in lieu of better information.) Sometimes 5 to 10 times extra, and I'll eat the economic hit by buying less stuff. TLW and I had an intellectual disagreement about it, after my War and Peace Theory of Shopping thread a while back. According to him, it was probably better ethically to buy the cheapest sh*t you could on everyday items, and save and invest hard, and then later on spend the difference on donating to one extremely well researched, beneficial charity. For me, it has been an adulthood long education in sometimes getting what you pay for, sometimes even coming well out ahead in return (use) on "investment", and sometimes NOT getting extra for what you pay for, except for peace of mind. And also learning what you really can't buy over the internet. Smiley: bah

Years ago, TLW was incredulous about the plan I was on with my electricity provider. They did this thing, where you could pay 25%, 50%, 75% or 100% extra for your electricity, and they guaranteed that that proportion of your bill was (not directly supplied by renewable energy plants, but) proportionally fed into the electricity grid by renewable electricity plants. The uptake of this plan was so wildly oversubscribed, that the electricity provider had to change the plan. The proportion of your bill going to renewables was now guaranteed to be spent on building new renewable electrical plants (solar heat, geothermal, wind, etc).

I told TLW I was spending 100% more on my electrical bill in return for the guarantee that that was going on building renewable plants. He almost fell off his chair because I was paying double to a company not for their service, but for them to build assets that didn't even exist yet that they would retain, and I would not have a share in. I seriously blew TLW's mind with this piece of consumer idiocy I was engaged in. I was really really happy to pay for my electricity this way. Doesn't stop me from switching off the light when I leave a room, though. Smiley: tongue

Edited, May 4th 2013 1:34am by Aripyanfar


Yeah that system you subscribe to is whack. How whack? This whack.
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#40 May 04 2013 at 6:03 AM Rating: Default
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You'll never be able to stop people from supporting a "good deal". This goes back to the Chick-fila argument. Boycotts can work, but shouldn't be the answer. The probability of you simply being without is much higher than an actual change in the business. I would also argue that the times when boycotts are successful are primarily based on the large negative feedback and less about the percentage of the boycott itself.

I would proffer a solution of direct large taxes on businesses who operate as such, siphoning money directly to the "reduce the nation's debt" fund. Since I'm not an economist, business oriented or legal, I'm not sure of any violations and/or drawbacks from either of the three.
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