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#27 Apr 06 2013 at 5:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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And lets use the word "science" very loosely while we're at it.

You mean like the quotation fingers people use when telling each other that you think you understand computer "science" or did you mean to imply that an established field with decades of repeatable research shouldn't be defined as science because you can't see what it has to do with rockets?
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#28 Apr 08 2013 at 6:22 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
And lets use the word "science" very loosely while we're at it.

You mean like the quotation fingers people use when telling each other that you think you understand computer "science" or did you mean to imply that an established field with decades of repeatable research shouldn't be defined as science because you can't see what it has to do with rockets?
Rockets don't kill people. People kill people. Smiley: clown
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#29 Apr 08 2013 at 7:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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#30 Apr 08 2013 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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Little Rabbit Fu-fu hops through my head whenever i see someone doing the finger quotes.

Makes me want to Bop them On the Head
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#31 Apr 08 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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Isn't the lyric "Little bunny fu-fu"?
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#32 Apr 08 2013 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Isn't the lyric "Little bunny fu-fu"?


Hah, wrong thread.

Edit: Whoops, she posted the lyrics in both threads. Nevermind.

Edited, Apr 8th 2013 9:40am by Shaowstrike
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#33 Apr 08 2013 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Isn't the lyric "Little bunny fu-fu"?


Hah, wrong thread.

Edit: Whoops, she posted the lyrics in both threads. Nevermind.

Edited, Apr 8th 2013 9:40am by Shaowstrike


Smiley: tongue
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#34 Apr 08 2013 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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Quick...

What do you call a row of rabbits hopping backwards?

a receding hairline
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#35 Apr 08 2013 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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What do you call an agoraphobic rabbit?

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#36 Apr 08 2013 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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This thread.
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#37 Apr 08 2013 at 4:45 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
And lets use the word "science" very loosely while we're at it.

... or did you mean to imply that an established field with decades of repeatable research shouldn't be defined as science because you can't see what it has to do with rockets?


No. I mean to imply that for something to be science, then something remotely resembling actual scientific method should be involved in its findings and conclusions. Sociology is almost entirely based on subjective popular trends, and when those in the field bother to perform tests, they're rarely testing their theories themselves, and usually construct the tests to ensure they arrive at the conclusion they started with. The whole non-falsifiable problem is rampant.

But thanks for asking. It shows you care. Smiley: smile
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#38 Apr 08 2013 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
And lets use the word "science" very loosely while we're at it.

... or did you mean to imply that an established field with decades of repeatable research shouldn't be defined as science because you can't see what it has to do with rockets?


No. I mean to imply that for something to be science, then something remotely resembling actual scientific method should be involved in its findings and conclusions. Sociology is almost entirely based on subjective popular trends, and when those in the field bother to perform tests, they're rarely testing their theories themselves, and usually construct the tests to ensure they arrive at the conclusion they started with. The whole non-falsifiable problem is rampant.

But thanks for asking. It shows you care. Smiley: smile
According to you the climate change scientists do the same thing. So really it's not just social scientists that aren't real scientists - it's pretty much all scientists.

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#39 Apr 09 2013 at 7:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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No. I mean to imply that for something to be science, then something remotely resembling actual scientific method should be involved in its findings and conclusions. Sociology is almost entirely based on subjective popular trends, and when those in the field bother to perform tests, they're rarely testing their theories themselves, and usually construct the tests to ensure they arrive at the conclusion they started with. The whole non-falsifiable problem is rampant.

False. Certainly harder to test "women like tall men more than short men" than it is to test "objects of differing mass fall at the same rate", but scientific method is certainly applied to sociology. I can see why you might not think so as you view "sociology" as a series of goofy studies you read about in newspapers, and not the studies that show that you were likely to read about such things in the newspaper, which are the ones that matter, really. Every decision you've made in your modern life has been influenced by what social science knows about how you'll act, your ignorance of that fact doesn't really matter. Amusingly, neither does my awareness of it. Both of us are manipulated into wanting things on a near constant basis. The refinement of this over the last century or so is what social science really is.

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#40 Apr 09 2013 at 8:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Simplified, what sociologists study is somewhat squishy, but the methodology isn't.
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#41 Apr 09 2013 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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NASA Level Science.
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#42 Apr 09 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've seen a sociologist's tool for "textual narrative analysis" at work - the thing that they use to compare data from transcribed interviews with people. It's a pretty hardcore little piece of software, and is not unlike its new big brothers, the big data analytic engines.

Trust me, they're being as scientific about that kind of stuff as any other scientist out there. They use as much statistical analysis as any botanist or chemist. They use the scientific method - propose a hypothesis, conduct experiments (interviews usually), compile the results, compare the results to the hypothesis, and draw new conclusions or re-affirm old conclusions as necessary. They have strict controls over what is acceptable usage of data, who they can interview, etc done by the IRB boards for their respective universities and think tanks. (They can't interview minors without parental approval, for example, unless explicitly permitted.)

The only difference is that their test subjects are human beings instead of plants or chemicals.
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#43 Apr 09 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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I'm gonna go tweet about what a joke sociology is, then I'm gonna have some lunch. #EATFRESH #ohnoIdidnt #trackmemoreplease
#44 Apr 09 2013 at 3:00 PM Rating: Default
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Catwho wrote:
I've seen a sociologist's tool for "textual narrative analysis" at work - the thing that they use to compare data from transcribed interviews with people. It's a pretty hardcore little piece of software, and is not unlike its new big brothers, the big data analytic engines.


Using technology doesn't make what you're doing science.

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Trust me, they're being as scientific about that kind of stuff as any other scientist out there. They use as much statistical analysis as any botanist or chemist.


Not even close to the same amount. Statistics and math are almost afterthoughts in sociology course work.

Quote:
They use the scientific method - propose a hypothesis, conduct experiments (interviews usually), compile the results, compare the results to the hypothesis, and draw new conclusions or re-affirm old conclusions as necessary.


On rare occasions, I'm sure this does happen. Most of the time it's testing to the theory (and I'm using "theory" loosely here), or deriving the theory post-hoc from the testing (with follow up testing rarely occurring). To be good science one has to derive a test to disprove the hypothesis. Sociological experiments very very very rarely do this.

Quote:
They have strict controls over what is acceptable usage of data, who they can interview, etc done by the IRB boards for their respective universities and think tanks. (They can't interview minors without parental approval, for example, unless explicitly permitted.)


Which, again, has nothing to do with whether they're using proper scientific methodology.

Quote:
The only difference is that their test subjects are human beings instead of plants or chemicals.


Oh, I fully agree with the increased difficulties involved, but the reality is that most people gravitate into a sociology track in college precisely because they want a field that's less rigid with the methodology and math and the other things that make other subjects "hard". The result is a marked difference, and one of the reasons why the field is largely considered a joke among science.
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#45 Apr 09 2013 at 3:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:

Oh, I fully agree with the increased difficulties involved, but the reality is that most people gravitate into a sociology track in college precisely because they want a field that's less rigid with the methodology and math and the other things that make other subjects "hard". The result is a marked difference, and one of the reasons why the field is largely considered a joke among science.

Math and methodology make things easy. People make things hard.

Reality pff...Smiley: lol
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#46 Apr 09 2013 at 5:11 PM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
gbaji wrote:

Oh, I fully agree with the increased difficulties involved, but the reality is that most people gravitate into a sociology track in college precisely because they want a field that's less rigid with the methodology and math and the other things that make other subjects "hard". The result is a marked difference, and one of the reasons why the field is largely considered a joke among science.

Math and methodology make things easy. People make things hard.


It's not about "easy" or "hard". It's about how consistently a field uses scientific method to arrive at conclusions. And Sociology is way down at the bottom of the list of fields that even attempt to label themselves a science in this regard.

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Reality pff...Smiley: lol


But does it bite? Smiley: dubious
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#47 Apr 10 2013 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
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On rare occasions, I'm sure this does happen. Most of the time it's testing to the theory (and I'm using "theory" loosely here), or deriving the theory post-hoc from the testing (with follow up testing rarely occurring). To be good science one has to derive a test to disprove the hypothesis. Sociological experiments very very very rarely do this.

Based on what? Your lit review of journals over the last 20 years? Hahaha, just kidding. I'm done arguing this with you. Not because you don't know what you're talking about, that would preclude ever replying to one of your posts, but because there's really no credible argument for your point of view, even among ignorant idiots. It's so apparently the opposite that if you can't get there, I'm not going to help. Also, data shows providing evidence to your personality type just reinforces falsehoods. Peer reviewed data.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#48 Apr 10 2013 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
gbaji wrote:

Oh, I fully agree with the increased difficulties involved, but the reality is that The result is a marked difference, and one of the reasons why the field is largely considered a joke among science.

Math and methodology make things easy. People make things hard.


It's not about "easy" or "hard". It's about how consistently a field uses scientific method to arrive at conclusions. And Sociology is way down at the bottom of the list of fields that even attempt to label themselves a science in this regard.


Listen Bucko, you're the one who wrote ....most people gravitate into a sociology track in college precisely because they want a field that's less rigid with the methodology and math and the other things that make other subjects "hard". See that up above in the 'quote' box?

You wrote it in explanation as to why scientific method is used inconsistently in social sciences, and why the field is largely considered a joke.

I hear more and better jokes about engineers than sociologists.


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#49 Apr 10 2013 at 7:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers? Mechanical Engineers build weapons; Civil Engineers build targets
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#50 Apr 10 2013 at 7:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers?

Both laugh at Gbaji calling himself an "Engineer"?

Well, I guess that wouldn't be a "difference".

Edited, Apr 10th 2013 8:21am by Jophiel
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#51 Apr 10 2013 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know about other schools, but all our sociology people had to at least pass a calculus class. Not that it means much; I certainly couldn't do much of that math these days. But yeah, you hear sociology get dismissed sometimes for doing studies that seem to do nothing but confirm obvious social trends. In a sense there's a reason for some of that, and interpreting results will always be harder when you can't do a hard control/treatment kind of experiment.

As an aside I sometimes joke that if you have to do a perfect experiment to find out something, you may as well not do it. Even if you somehow manage to pull it off, it's unlikely anyone else will be able to replicate it (I mean really, if you're going around confirming other people's results you aren't exactly a cutting edge scientist in the first place). If you're really onto something worthwhile it'll be so blatantly obvious you could have a monkey do your experiment and still get good results. I'm obviously not a rocket surgeon though. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Apr 10th 2013 1:55pm by someproteinguy
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