The posters from the peanut gallery all insisting that he had 60 days to get approval...
Ah, well, I guess I can't answer for vague references to "the posters". I personally noted how McCain and other Senate Republicans said they wouldn't make any moves if the sixty day mark passed as they didn't see any problem with it.
And? Republicans didn't make any formal moves to condemn the war in Iraq either. What's your point? I'm talking about the hypocrisy of those who did condemn the Iraq was as "illegal", who then failed to make the same condemnation with regard to Obama's actions in Libya. Since Republicans in the Senate didn't take any formal action with regards to the Iraq war being illegal, it's not hypocritical for them not also not to do in this case.
I'm sorry. Did the Dems pass some kind of resolution declaring Iraq an illegal war?
No, should they have?
No. But that didn't stop many very vocal liberals from calling the Iraq war illegal. You are arguing that since the GOP didn't pass a resolution declaring Obama's actions in Libya illegal, no one on the right is allowed to point out that what he did violated the War Powers Act. But you have never made that same argument with regard to the Dems compared to liberals calling Bush's actions in Iraq illegal. That's a double standard on your part.
Again: I did not view Iraq as an illegal war.
And you never argued that liberals who did view it as an illegal war have no grounds to do so because the Dems never passed a resolution declaring the Iraq war illegal. So why make that argument now when the only difference is the party involved?
Therefore, I am not at all worried about whether anyone "passed a resolution" or whatever else.
And yet, you used precisely that as a criteria to dismiss criticism of Obama's actions regarding Libya.
Since you're under the impression that "The Left" is some singular mind, let me speak on behalf of everyone and unconditionally apologize for anyone and everyone who said Iraq was "illegal". They were wrong.
It's really not about you though Joph. I'm not talking about some kind of hive mind. I'm talking about general trends. And people who align themselves on the left politically tends to be far far more likely to judge others actions based on their political orientation than on the action itself. Even as a relatively moderate liberal, what you did above is a perfect example of this. While you personally may disagree with the claim that Iraq was an illegal war, that position does not compel you to correct others on the left who claim that it was, while you wont hesitate to not just state your disagreement when it's with someone on the right, but make an argument that you'd never use if the situation was reversed.
I don't recall you ever correcting a poster on this forum back in the 2003-2006 time period claiming that Iraq was an illegal war, and you certainly never argued that they have no grounds to make that claim unless elected Democrats take some kind of formal action. You're holding left and right to a completely different standard, and I suspect you don't even realize you're doing it.
Do you think Libya was "illegal"?
Yes. In so much as Obama's actions directly violated (ignored really) the War Powers Act. By definition what he did was illegal.
Do you think the GOP viewed those actions as illegal?
Of course. That does not translate into taking action though.
If so, can you explain why they did nothing beyond some lip service from the fringes to do anything at all about a president illegally waging combat?
Because it would have been politically harmful to do so? Because it would have been misconstrued (deliberately) as partisan opposition to a war that the GOP agreed with, instead of an opposition to the means by which the war was authorized. And no amount of explaining it in crystal clear terms would have mattered. Hell Joph, I'm 99% sure you would have been one of the loudest voices on this forum condemning the GOP using exactly that "Why are they opposing this when they clearly think we should be helping topple Khadaffi?" argument. It's not like you haven't made the false partisan argument before.
Oh. And just to point out your inconsistency (again), I'll note that you have never asked those questions of someone on the left who claimed the Iraq war was illegal. Why not? I'll also point out that my point isn't about Obama and Libya. It's about highlighting how liberals behave very differently even to very similar actions, based on which party is involved. You're providing an excellent set of examples of this btw. Are you even aware that you do this? Edited, Apr 12th 2013 4:45pm by gbaji