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#127 Mar 10 2013 at 7:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rachel9 wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
is it just me, or does anyone else want to know what happened to the other 8 rachels?

Do you wonder that every time someone appends a number to their name? Smiley: dubious


Yes, of course. Doesn't everyone?
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#128 Mar 10 2013 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I do not think so.
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#129 Mar 10 2013 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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The worst is when you see SephirothxXX

What happend to AAA through XXW?
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#130 Mar 10 2013 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Rachel9 wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
is it just me, or does anyone else want to know what happened to the other 8 rachels?

Do you wonder that every time someone appends a number to their name? Smiley: dubious


Yes, of course. Doesn't everyone?
I do.
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#131 Mar 10 2013 at 10:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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I assumed Rachel was a Beatles fan.
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#132 Mar 10 2013 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
I assumed Rachel was a Beatles fan.

Smiley: glare
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#133 Mar 11 2013 at 12:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
The worst is when you see SephirothxXX

What happend to AAA through XXW?


They were all taken, every single one of them, because it's the coolest name ever of course.


Edited, Mar 10th 2013 11:39pm by someproteinguy
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#134 Mar 11 2013 at 1:41 AM Rating: Good
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I prefer Sebastian.
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#135 Mar 11 2013 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think you really understand how this works. Someone does not just decide one day that they are trans. Either they are or they aren't. Someone can no more decide this than they can the color of the sky. It is what it is, and whether other people realize it or not doesn't change the facts.

No one knows, actually. I'd like to believe gender identity is set at birth, but nothing actually seems to indicate that. Don't present things you wish were true as facts. It's lazy. That aside, what difference does it make? Instead of aiming to remove a stigma by removing any element of choice, wouldn't it make more sense to just remove the stigma? Jim is genetically destined to feel he is a female, he can't help it. Oh ok, that's fine. John decided he wanted to try being a woman. Get the fucking pitchforks!
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#136 Mar 11 2013 at 5:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
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I don't think you really understand how this works. Someone does not just decide one day that they are trans. Either they are or they aren't. Someone can no more decide this than they can the color of the sky. It is what it is, and whether other people realize it or not doesn't change the facts.


No one knows, actually. I'd like to believe gender identity is set at birth, but nothing actually seems to indicate that. Don't present things you wish were true as facts. It's lazy. That aside, what difference does it make? Instead of aiming to remove a stigma by removing any element of choice, wouldn't it make more sense to just remove the stigma? Jim is genetically destined to feel he is a female, he can't help it. Oh ok, that's fine. John decided he wanted to try being a woman. Get the fucking pitchforks!

The bolded was my main point. I was responding to this:
Quote:
Is this one of those Gbaji things? "You're married if you just say you're married, no need for any legal recognition!" and "You're a woman if you just say you're a woman!"?

No one becomes something just because they say they are. Either they are, or they are not. The facts don't change just because there is no proof, or because no one knows the truth.

Quote:
No one knows, actually. I'd like to believe gender identity is set at birth, but nothing actually seems to indicate that.
It doesn't have to be set at birth to not be a choice.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 7:55am by Rachel9
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#137 Mar 11 2013 at 5:54 AM Rating: Good
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Most people working in the fields of gender studies agree that your gender identity is fluid during your life. That doesn't mean that everyone, or even most people, are going to switch to an entirely new identity, but it does mean that the overall shape (for lack of a better word) and intensity of your identity are going to shift. You may become more or less masculine or feminine, you may move towards androgyny, you may have periods of your life where you're not really strongly affiliated with your gender, etc.

But Smash is right, we don't really know why some people will possess an alternate gender identity to their ***, or why some people don't possess a gender identity, or why some people will move through identities and never "land" on one.

It's like most of psychology really. There is some link between that and neuroscience, but we know so frickin' little because the brain is so ridiculously complex, genes from all over the chromosomal map influence everything, and even if you understood the brain you'd need to understand everything else because the brain receives feedback from our peripheral nervous system and other organs.

In this sense, it's actually very similar to your sexuality, which is more fluid than your identity. Your sexual orientation may not be super fluid, but the other aspects of your sexuality are extremely fluid. We don't really know why someone latches on to one kink or another. And a kink can be a gateway to an orientation shift, so it's possible we're talking about similar processes in the brain. Or maybe I, humanities guy, am reducing two completely separate biological processes into one because they look similar.

TL;DR: We don't know; all we know is that gender identities are far more fluid than common wisdom suggests they are.
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#138 Mar 11 2013 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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Rachel9 wrote:
Someone can no more decide this than they can the color of the sky. It is what it is, and whether other people realize it or not doesn't change the facts.

Likewise, there's other biological factors that are what they are and wishing them otherwise doesn't change their facts any more than my genetics or anatomy change if I wish myself Asian or a gorilla or seven feet tall. Basing one's legal identity off these factors isn't bigoted or cruel or heartless, it's just common sense versus some vague nebulous "You are what you feel like" criteria.
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#139 Mar 11 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
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How about if we just extract our bodily waste through a port - on the hip maybe. You just go into the public disposal station open the child-proof cap on your hip-port, stick the suction hose in and suck it out, a quick pass with a sterile wipe, cap it up and done.

Then wash your hands.

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#140 Mar 11 2013 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Rachel9 wrote:
Someone can no more decide this than they can the color of the sky. It is what it is, and whether other people realize it or not doesn't change the facts.

Likewise, there's other biological factors that are what they are and wishing them otherwise doesn't change their facts any more than my genetics or anatomy change if I wish myself Asian or a gorilla or seven feet tall. Basing one's legal identity off these factors isn't bigoted or cruel or heartless, it's just common sense versus some vague nebulous "You are what you feel like" criteria.

Ok, but the word "man" doesn't mean "A person who the law of the current state recognizes as a male." Using it that way (wrong) is not only ambiguous and potentially confusing about what you actually mean, but also does a really good job of demonstrating your hate. If that's not what you're trying to do, you should probably stop.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 9:24am by Rachel9
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#141 Mar 11 2013 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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I think we need unisex pronouns before we need unisex bathroom.
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#142 Mar 11 2013 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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No one becomes something just because they say they are.

Sure they do. All the time, in fact. Christians, Democrats, whatever. People assign themselves to groups by making choices all the time. If what you say is true, then there would have to be some subset of people who were "saying" they were transgendered who were "wrong". Is that really what you believe? That some subset of trans people are somehow invalid because they only "say" they are? Really?

Either they are, or they are not. The facts don't change just because there is no proof, or because no one knows the truth.

Yeah, listen, Calvinism is a *little* passe. I understand your point, and the petty fear it arises from, but it's exceptionally unlikely that someone is "born" transgendered any more than someone is "born" *** or "born" straight, or whatever. Gender identity is too complex to be something derived genetically from birth. Attempting to make it something else, like skin color, is idiotic.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#143 Mar 11 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
I think we need unisex pronouns before we need unisex bathroom.



How bout "Shklee"? It worked for a sentient planet.
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#144 Mar 11 2013 at 7:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Ok, but the word "man" doesn't mean "A person who the law of the current state recognizes as a male." Using it that way (wrong) is not only ambiguous and potentially confusing about what you actually mean, but also does a really good job of demonstrating your hate. If that's not what you're trying to do, you should probably stop.

For fuck sake, know your audience a little. Zero people you're addressing here are at all impressed by your obvious recent "no zealot like a convert" awakening to this line of thinking. It's not novel, it's boring and naive. We get it. You're not amazing anyone with your insights. You are providing no new information. None. You're repeating a known existing position that you've oh so clearly been spoon fed. Glad it resonated with you, but the proselytizing is absolutely not necessary here.

Know this, though: You're parroting the heavy handed PR line and showing an actual lack of understanding of the nuance of GLBT issues. It's like responding to a discussion about Aquinas' arguments for the existence of god with "you're going to **** if you don't believe Christ is your savior!" A quaint tagline you might believe if you're a Christian, but not very useful or interesting.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#145 Mar 11 2013 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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Rachel9 wrote:
Ok, but the word "man" doesn't mean "A person who the law of the current state recognizes as a male."

It usually does when using it as a criteria to determine some gender-based inclusion or exclusion (who to let in your restroom, who to award a scholarship to, who to allow into your He-Man Woman Haters club, etc). Particularly when you're dealing with people whose primary counter argument is apparently "You're a bigoty-bigoted hatey-hate hater!!"

At least the former is based in some form of logic.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 9:15am by Jophiel
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#146 Mar 11 2013 at 8:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel, do you want to share a public bathroom with Tailmon? Really?
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#147 Mar 11 2013 at 8:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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I doubt anyone wants to use a public bathroom.

Well, except congresscritters.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 10:46am by lolgaxe
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#148 Mar 11 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I doubt anyone wants to use a public bathroom.

Well, except congresscritters.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 10:46am by lolgaxe

I've been in some family restrooms I liked; those are awesome in general. Also men's restrooms with baby-changing tables are a godsend. In general though, public restrooms are only for emergencies and long car trips.
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#149 Mar 11 2013 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Also men's restrooms with baby-changing tables are a godsend

It's pretty rare for me to find one of these around here, but when I do, I like to leave a note on the restroom door that reads "You had no changing table in this men's room, which of course is your decision. Being a man who had to change an infants diaper, I too, made a decision. I held him up with one hand and removed his diaper and dropped it on the floor while shook **** off of him, also onto your floor. This seems a less than ideal method of disposal, but as you've forced me to decide between setting my infant down on the floor of your restroom or leaving his **** in a pile on the floor, I chose the latter. Free will, awesome, am I right?"
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#150 Mar 11 2013 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Also men's restrooms with baby-changing tables are a godsend

It's pretty rare for me to find one of these around here, but when I do, I like to leave a note on the restroom door that reads "You had no changing table in this men's room, which of course is your decision. Being a man who had to change an infants diaper, I too, made a decision. I held him up with one hand and removed his diaper and dropped it on the floor while shook sh*t off of him, also onto your floor. This seems a less than ideal method of disposal, but as you've forced me to decide between setting my infant down on the floor of your restroom or leaving his sh*t in a pile on the floor, I chose the latter. Free will, awesome, am I right?"


When they have a baby changing table... you do that?
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#151 Mar 11 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Quote:
No one becomes something just because they say they are.


Sure they do. All the time, in fact. Christians, Democrats, whatever. People assign themselves to groups by making choices all the time.
There's usually a little more to being a christian, or democrat than just saying you are.

Quote:
If what you say is true, then there would have to be some subset of people who were "saying" they were transgendered who were "wrong". Is that really what you believe? That some subset of trans people are somehow invalid because they only "say" they are? Really?
Sure, there are plenty of people who think they may be trans, but aren't sure. Some of them eventually determine that they are not.

Quote:
Quote:
Either they are, or they are not. The facts don't change just because there is no proof, or because no one knows the truth.


Yeah, listen, Calvinism is a *little* passe. I understand your point, and the petty fear it arises from, but it's exceptionally unlikely that someone is "born" transgendered any more than someone is "born" *** or "born" straight, or whatever. Gender identity is too complex to be something derived genetically from birth. Attempting to make it something else, like skin color, is idiotic.
Who said it was? There is a middle ground between something being genetic and unchangeable, like skin color, and being a choice that can be changed at any time for any reason, like what you want to eat for dinner. Some things can be influenced by someone's environment, or choices, but still not be a simple choice for them to make at any time. This is one of those.

Jophiel wrote:
Rachel9 wrote:
Ok, but the word "man" doesn't mean "A person who the law of the current state recognizes as a male."

It usually does when using it as a criteria to determine some gender-based inclusion or exclusion (who to let in your restroom, who to award a scholarship to, who to allow into your He-Man Woman Haters club, etc).
No, it really doesn't. More appropriate would be "biological (fe)male" to refer to a person's (original) ***, "legally fe(male)", to refer to what the law considers them. ****, even just male or female would be much better, if that's too much trouble for you.

Quote:
You're repeating a known existing position that you've oh so clearly been spoon fed.
Well, either that, or i've just gotten really sick of being called a man, and came up with it on my own.
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